Hybrid Maintanence

[jdnet]

Believe it or not, I personally don't care about hybrids that much. But I do care about the worsening air pollution problem in Sri Lanka that is coming mainly from vehicle emissions.

lol

[Pericles]

Unfortunately, mass adoption of electric vehicle and fuel cell vehicles are a long long way off in Sri lanka. We don't have the money for the infrastructure and, anyway, almost the entire worldwide electric vehicle and fuel cell vehicles production will go to major markets for the foreseeable future.

Funny, that seems to be what lots of people say about the hybrids right now too.

[toyota sucks]

Conventional diesels are already in existence which gets mpg figures on par with Hybrids and on the CO2 frontier. Our country has not benefited because of our crazy tax system.

Yep if the policy makers here this they will decrease tax on diesels including the sahara 200 which will gulp away the fuel needed for 10 normal cars and co2s of a 100

Comparing hybrids with diesels I'm sure my crdi santafe would have a better economy than the hybrid harriers they brought down

[The Don]

Yep if the policy makers here this they will decrease tax on diesels including the sahara 200 which will gulp away the fuel needed for 10 normal cars and co2s of a 100

Comparing hybrids with diesels I'm sure my crdi santafe would have a better economy than the hybrid harriers they brought down

Well they can reduce the duty on ultra clean diesels, ones that emit less than 120g C02 per km, put a limit on the engine size, say 1.8 and you get a good collection of cars which are environmentally friendly and economical.

The issue has always been diesel being the fuel of choice for public transport and goods transportation and thus is subsidised through a levy on petrol. Perhaps the answer is to find a way of supplying the industry with subsidised diesel, or simply removing the subsidy on fuel completely and assisting them in another manner.

Also on the subject of full electrics, well the current barrier is charging capacity of the battery and of course the charging method. Once these barriers are overcome they would become widely available. Commercially generated electricity is always going to be cheaper than generating your own through your engine or generator. For example in SL harnessing solar energy is not a completely bonkers idea. It is only a matter of time.

If you want any clue as to where the world is going, in London Hybrid vehicles used to be exempt from the congestion charge to promote their use. This was removed last year and now they need to qualify under the CO2 emissions targets (less than 100g/KM). But full electrics and plug in hybrids still qualify.

Edited May 7, 2011 by The Don

[Sifaan]

If you want any clue as to where the world is going, in London Hybrid vehicles used to be exempt from the congestion charge to promote their use. This was removed last year and now they need to qualify under the CO2 emissions targets (less than 100g/KM). But full electrics and plug in hybrids still qualify.

do they calculate this by testing the model (meaning it's more practical to establish test conditions) or by testing the individual car, e.g. when renewing MOT, (so you can penalise those who are not maintaining the car properly - e.g. repairs to EGR, particulate filters, etc)

[Pericles]

Wonder if we can convince LSE to put up a project to install solar panels in the car parks at MIT. They to push the green angle in advertising. Dual benefits, shades for the cars too! And then they can give a special rate on the Leaf or summin.

What an idea, sir-ji.

[The Don]

do they calculate this by testing the model (meaning it's more practical to establish test conditions) or by testing the individual car, e.g. when renewing MOT, (so you can penalise those who are not maintaining the car properly - e.g. repairs to EGR, particulate filters, etc)

No they go by the manufacturer specification (they rely on what the manufacturer tells them). All vehicles come with a figure of C02 emissions as even road tax is determined by this figure for new vehicles. The C02 emissions considered are done under specific test conditions so it's comparable.

But you are right, over time it will change as the vehicle gets older and depending on maintenance. All vehicles are emission tested at MOT, though I'm not sure if this particular figure is checked (as in if it's still less than the manufacturer specification).

And Peri, LSE might consider that Over here green credentials do count hence why companies like MAS and Brandix are carbon neutral, as its used for marketing purposes !

[rover]

Well guys I didn't want to start another thread ,Already this forum is overflowing with hybrid threads and is annoying to most people. I just wanted to clear some myths and fears among people about hybrid vehicles and to share my views.

Most of the arguments about the unsuitability of hybrid vehicles in Sri Lanka are,

1) The extreme climatic conditions (humidity and high ambient temperature, dusty environment).

2) Poor road conditions.

3) Lack of maintenance facilities, expertise.

4) High cost of spare parts/ high maintenance cost.

5) High insurance premium.

6) Safety hazard during an accident.

Now let's see how each of the above factors influence hybrid vehicles in SL.

Climatic conditions

The average ambient temperatures in SL is about 27-31 C unlike in US or Europe where it is much less. And how that's effecting the components? The battery pack (actually 2 of them- NimH for the traction and 12v lead acid battery for auxiliaries) are located behind the rear passenger seat and the other smaller one a little further way. Both of them shares the same cabin atmosphere and when the cars' AC is running it will keep the batteries cool. Although the battery is working at a higher operating temperature. Another important thing to note is that the battery's efficiency drops at very low temperatures, like in the winter season in other countries. But conditions in Sri Lanka is ideal for the battery.

Some say the battery has a limited lifetime as it is going through many charging/discharging cycles, and buildup of the "memory effect". It's true that it has a limited lifetime but there are no reports of early replacement of these batteries in other countries, and normal life time is 8-10 years. This does not change under Sri Lankan conditions due to the reasons I mentioned earlier. And to maximize the efficiency and lifetime the battery is always kept charged between 40%-80%.

Now let's see how our SL conditions effecting the electric motors. These motors (2) are built in a sealed enclosure inside the power split device (gearbox) casing, with a high IP class (International protection class). That means they are protected from water and dust. For example, In large ocean going vessels there are large motors on the deck and they are splashed or sometimes submerged in sea water and still they last for many years. Unless the seal or bearing of the motor becomes defective it will last the lifetime of the car, and once again there are no significant issues with the traction motors in other countries, and SL conditions does not make a difference.

But there is one factor which we have to consider. It's that the motors will run hotter than in other countries due to the high ambient temperatures here. When the motor windings are running at a higher temperature for an extended length of time the insulation layer will be deteriorated and cause early failure of the windings. But the makers must have manufactured these motors with necessary allowances for the cars to be run during hot summer time, remember summer time in Japan or southern parts of US can be really hot sometimes. Also if anyone who is interested in diesel electric locomotives will know that there are a lot of these locomotives with large traction motors in use in our railroads. Some of them were bought here way back in the 1950's and there are no significant issues with their traction motors due to climatic conditions in SL.

The other factor that we have to consider is the high humidity. It cannot affect the motor or the battery as they are sealed. However high humidity together with high ambient temparatures will cause deterioration of the insulation in electric cables. As the hybrid cars have a lot of cables including high voltage ones it can be a serious issue. But these cables are protected with heavy insulation and most of them run underneath the seats and cabin, not in the engine bay. And in any modern car you can find quite a lot of cables so if the high humid conditions are really causing such problems then most of the vehicles would have been affected.

Also there is a arrangement to cool the electronics (inverter) by circulating liquid coolant. So the temperature of the delicate electronic parts are kept stable.

Poor road conditions

Sri Lanka has the worst road network in the world. That would be effecting mostly the suspension and steering system. A hybrid vehicles suspension is quite similar to an ordinary car, although some say they are improved to maximize the fuel efficiency, that is true to some extent. But a hybrid vehicle is not a space shuttle. For example what I hear is that the lower engine mounting of a Prius is identical to an Axio. but still I'm yet to confirm it myself. If that is true then it means that some parts are common for ordinary car models and the hybrids.

I compared the prices for several common parts of a Corolla and a Prius on ebay and what I found was that the prices are almost similar. I don't know the situation in SL but I'm curious to find out the prices at M.M Organisation and at the agents when I get some free time. Still too lazy though.

Lack of maintenance facilities/expertise.

So far Toyota Lanka is the only place to do maintenance and as I know they have specially trained personnel to carry out maintenance on hybrids. (You guys must be laughing right now as I started this thread not knowing about it!). Recently more and more hybrid specific repair facilities have come up and soon they will expand to the rest of the island.

High cost of spares/maintenance.

Major components of a hybrid i.e batteries and motors are built for the lifetime. About the other parts still I have to check as mentioned before.

On the subject of maintenance it is actually low maintenance when it comes to a hybrid.

1. No changing of timing belt- instead Prius has a timing chain (Improved to reduce noise). The only belt it has is to drive the engine coolant pump. Even the AC compressor is electric so no drive belt and clutch. And no alternator- the elec.motor does the job.

2. Electric power steering - eliminates hydraulic oil leaks through seals and shaft.

3. Extended service intervals – as the engine of a Prius is not running continuously during the journey the oil and filter change interval can be extended more than an ordinary vehicle. Also most of the time the engine is running at constant lower rpm range therefore the life time of engine components are longer compared to their gasoline counterparts.

4. No topping up of electrolyte or replacing battery.

5. The life time of brake pads are increased – As the regenerative braking is activated when you use the brake pedal lightly, there's no engaging of brakes instead the magnetic flux in the motor (now acting as a generator) will cause a resistance to motion and the car slows down. If you depress the brakes further then only the mechanical brakes will come into action.

High insurance premium

This is again a myth. The insurance premium of a hybrid car is similar to an ordinary car of same value.

Some insurance companies fool some not so intelligent people by offering a additional cover on the battery and inverter which is just a waste of money.

Safety hazard during an accident.

The Prius is designed to automatically cut off it's electrical supply during an accident. However there is a risk of fire or explosion if there is a direct impact on the main battery during a collision. However the battery is secured in a place where there is the least possibility of a direct impact.

And don't forget, above all hybrid vehicles are less in emissions and fuel efficient. But as some say it's good to wait couple of years to see how the hybrids are adopting to Sri Lankan conditions and then to decide to buy or not. Yes that's the wise thing to do, But not in Sri Lanka. The government policies cannot be trusted and they keep on changing sometimes overnight. You'll never know what will be after couple of years and I will not be surprised if they decide to temporarily ban all vehicle imports!

So there you go. My perspective on the hybrid's suitability to Sri Lankan conditions. I welcome your comments good and bad.

Edited February 24, 2012 by rover

[Californikan]

A well written, well thought out, thorough, and thoughtful analysis rover. Well done!

I just wanted to clear some myths and fears among people about hybrid vehicles and to share my views.

Most of the arguments about the unsuitability of hybrid vehicles in Sri Lanka are,

1) The extreme climatic conditions (humidity and high ambient temperature, dusty environment).

2) Poor road conditions.

3) Lack of maintenance facilities, expertise.

4) High cost of spare parts/ high maintenance cost.

5) High insurance premium.

6) Safety hazard during an accident.

But as some say it’s good to wait couple of years to see how the hybrids are adopting to Sri Lankan conditions and then to decide to buy or not. Yes that’s the wise thing to do, But not in Sri Lanka. The government policies cannot be trusted and they keep on changing sometimes overnight. You’ll never know what will be after couple of years and I will not be surprised if they decide to temporarily ban all vehicle imports!

An important point about the instability and sudden overnight changes of tax and duty rates in Sri Lanka. Who knows what the tax situation will be like in a year or two.Already, the 'early adopter' hybrid buyers who bought their hybrids before the April tax increases have proved themselves smart and saved themselves from paying a lot of extra money in taxes compared to the after April 2011 tax increase buyers.

[zerocool]

Already, the 'early adopter' hybrid buyers who bought their hybrids before the April tax increases have proved themselves smart and saved themselves from paying a lot of extra money in taxes compared to the after April 2011 tax increase buyers.

duh!!! stupid remark i have seen here in a long time. I'm enjoying your jokes...do you have another one?

Edited May 20, 2011 by zerocool

[Crosswind]

Well guys I didn’t want to start another thread ,Already this forum is overflowing with hybrid threads and is annoying to most people. I just wanted to clear some myths and fears among people about hybrid vehicles and to share my views.

Most of the arguments about the unsuitability of hybrid vehicles in Sri Lanka are,

1) The extreme climatic conditions (humidity and high ambient temperature, dusty environment).

2) Poor road conditions.

3) Lack of maintenance facilities, expertise.

4) High cost of spare parts/ high maintenance cost.

5) High insurance premium.

6) Safety hazard during an accident.

Now let’s see how each of the above factors influence hybrid vehicles in SL.

Climatic conditions

The average ambient temperatures in SL is about 27-31 C unlike in US or Europe where it is much less. And how that’s effecting the components? The battery pack (actually 2 of them- NimH for the traction and 12v lead acid battery for auxiliaries) are located behind the rear passenger seat and the other smaller one a little further way. Both of them shares the same cabin atmosphere and when the cars’ AC is running it will keep the batteries cool. Although the battery is working at a higher operating temperature. Another important thing to note is that the battery’s efficiency drops at very low temperatures, like in the winter season in other countries. But conditions in Sri Lanka is ideal for the battery.

Some say the battery has a limited lifetime as it is going through many charging/discharging cycles, and buildup of the “memory effect”. It’s true that it has a limited lifetime but there are no reports of early replacement of these batteries in other countries, and normal life time is 8-10 years. This does not change under Sri Lankan conditions due to the reasons I mentioned earlier. And to maximize the efficiency and lifetime the battery is always kept charged between 40%-80%.

Now let’s see how our SL conditions effecting the electric motors. These motors (2) are built in a sealed enclosure with a high IP class (International protection class). That means they are protected from water and dust. For example, In large ocean going vessels there are large motors on the deck and they are splashed or sometimes submerged in sea water and still they last for many years. Unless the seal or bearing of the motor becomes defective it will last the lifetime of the car, and once again there are no significant issues with the traction motors in other countries, and SL conditions does not make a difference.

But there is one factor which we have to consider. It’s that the motors will run hotter than in other countries due to the high ambient temperatures here. When the motor windings are running at a higher temperature for an extended length of time the insulation layer will be deteriorated and cause early failure of the windings. But the makers must have manufactured these motors with necessary allowances for the cars to be run during hot summer time, remember summer time in Japan or southern parts of US can be really hot sometimes. Also if anyone who is interested in diesel electric locomotives will know that there are a lot of these locomotives with large traction motors in use in our railroads. Some of them were bought here way back in the 1950’s and there are no significant issues with their traction motors due to climatic conditions in SL.

The other factor that we have to consider is the high humidity. It cannot affect the motor or the battery as they are sealed. However high humidity together with high ambient temparatures will cause deterioration of the insulation in electric cables. As the hybrid cars have a lot of cables including high voltage ones it can be a serious issue. But these cables are protected with heavy insulation and most of them run underneath the seats and cabin, not in the engine bay. And in any modern car you can find quite a lot of cables so if the high humid conditions are really causing such problems then most of the vehicles would have been affected.

Poor road conditions

Sri Lanka has the worst road network in the world. That would be effecting mostly the suspension and steering system. A hybrid vehicles suspension is quite similar to an ordinary car, although some say they are improved to maximize the fuel efficiency, that is true to some extent. But a hybrid vehicle is not a space shuttle. For example what I hear is that the lower engine mounting of a Prius is identical to an Axio. but still I’m yet to confirm it myself. If that is true then it means that some parts are common for ordinary car models and the hybrids.

I compared the prices for several common parts of a Corolla and a Prius on ebay and what I found was that the prices are almost similar. I don’t know the situation in SL but I’m curious to find out the prices at M.M Organisation and at the agents when I get some free time. Still too lazy though.

Lack of maintenance facilities/expertise.

So far Toyota Lanka is the only place to do maintenance and as I know they have specially trained personnel to carry out maintenance on hybrids. (You guys must be laughing right now as I started this thread not knowing about it!)

High cost of spares/maintenance.

Major components of a hybrid i.e batteries and motors are built for the lifetime. About the other parts still I have to check as mentioned before.

On the subject of maintenance it is actually low maintenance when it comes to a hybrid.

1. No changing of timing belt- instead Prius has a timing chain (Improved to reduce noise). The only belt it has is to drive the engine coolant pump. Even the AC compressor is electric so no drive belt and clutch. And no alternator- the elec.motor does the job.

2. Electric power steering - eliminates hydraulic oil leaks through seals and shaft.

3. Extended service intervals – as the engine of a Prius is not running continuously during the journey the oil and filter change interval can be extended more than an ordinary vehicle. Also most of the time the engine is running at constant lower rpm range therefore the life time of engine components are longer compared to their gasoline counterparts.

4. No topping up of electrolyte or replacing battery.

5. The life time of brake pads are increased – As the regenerative braking is activated when you use the brake pedal lightly, there’s no engaging of brakes instead the magnetic flux in the motor (now acting as a generator) will cause a resistance to motion and the car slows down. If you depress the brakes further then only the mechanical brakes will come into action.

High insurance premium

This is again a myth. The insurance premium of a hybrid car is similar to an ordinary car of same value.

Safety hazard during an accident.

The Prius is designed to automatically cut off it’s electrical supply during an accident. However there is a risk of fire or explosion if there is a direct impact on the main battery during a collision. However the battery is secured in a place where there is the least possibility of a direct impact.

And don’t forget, above all hybrid vehicles are less in emissions and fuel efficient. But as some say it’s good to wait couple of years to see how the hybrids are adopting to Sri Lankan conditions and then to decide to buy or not. Yes that’s the wise thing to do, But not in Sri Lanka. The government policies cannot be trusted and they keep on changing sometimes overnight. You’ll never know what will be after couple of years and I will not be surprised if they decide to temporarily ban all vehicle imports!

So there you go. My perspective on the hybrid’s suitability to Sri Lankan conditions. I welcome your comments good and bad.

A well written, well thought out, thorough, and thoughtful analysis rover. Well done!

Why don't you two get a room (or even better, get in to the backseat of your Prius) and do ur love talks with each other, instead of polluting this forum?

[charitha19]

It was the stone guard that I was refering to (just googled and confirmed it), and dont say that other ordinary cars dont have it cos my previous cars had it. All the components which I saw after removing the wheel was same like in any other car(brake discs, ABS, drive shaft, boots, shocks,etc etc..) and the regenerative braking has nothing to do with the wheels, It is only when you apply brakes lightly the electic motor acts as a generator and converts kinetic energy into electricity and stores it in the battery for later use. The life time of the brake pads in a hybrid is much more than in a conventional car because of this.

i didnt get this statement: "The life time of the brake pads in a hybrid is much more than in a conventional car because of this"

why is this.. do u have to break less in a hybrid.. sorry if i sound dumb here..

[Pericles]

An important point about the instability and sudden overnight changes of tax and duty rates in Sri Lanka. Who knows what the tax situation will be like in a year or two.Already, the 'early adopter' hybrid buyers who bought their hybrids before the April tax increases have proved themselves smart and saved themselves from paying a lot of extra money in taxes compared to the after April 2011 tax increase buyers.

A proper ecologically concerned tree hugger wouldn't worry about the cheapness. And if you're concerned about taxes, push your local MP to bring up a tax credit scheme.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Pericles

[rover]

i didnt get this statement: "The life time of the brake pads in a hybrid is much more than in a conventional car because of this"

why is this.. do u have to break less in a hybrid.. sorry if i sound dumb here..

Let me quote from my own post,

5. The life time of brake pads are increased – As the regenerative braking is activated when you use the brake pedal lightly, there’s no engaging of brakes instead the magnetic flux in the motor (now acting as a generator) will cause a resistance to motion and the car slows down. If you depress the brakes further then only the mechanical brakes will come into action.

Almost 80% of the braking in a hybrid is being transformed back as electricity,So less wear down of mechanical parts, and prolong the lifetime of them.

[rover]

And stay tuned folks, Coming up next.....

Disadvantages of owning a hybrid vehicle

But now back to regular crap...

[Californikan]

duh!!! stupid remark i have seen here in a long time. I'm enjoying your jokes...do you have another one?

Can you explain & give reasons why you think it is stupid? Or is calling something stupid the maximum your brain can do?

Why don't you two get a room (or even better, get in to the backseat of your Prius) and do ur love talks with each other, instead of polluting this forum?

So says the man who started that "True Story About a Hybrid" thread.

If you don't like hybrids why do you keep clicking on the hybrid threads?. At this moment there are 4 hybrid threads and 26 non-hybrid threads on the first page of "General Automotive". That's over a 5:1 ratio. Just don't click on any thread that has the word "hybrid" in it. There's plenty of other good stuff for you to read and participate in.

A proper ecologically concerned tree hugger wouldn't worry about the cheapness. And if you're concerned about taxes, push your local MP to bring up a tax credit scheme.

You make good points.

One has to be rich enough for the costs of things and money to not be any concern to be a "true" "total" tree hugger. For the rest of us, cost, value for money etc plays some part in the equation. Even in wealthy markets, tax and/or fuel savings are the major factor for hybrid sales.

The current lower taxes on hybrids seem to be enough to drive hybrid sales. I would love to see a "Cash for Clunkers" program in SL similar to the one in the U.S. where people get a tax credit for trading in old polluting or gas guzzling vehicles which are then taken off the road by going to the junk yard. Don't have much hope for that.

[zerocool]

Can you explain & give reasons why you think it is stupid? Or is calling something stupid the maximum your brain can do?

Hey Mr. Nikan, That one is not that funny. Can you tell a better one next time?

[Californikan]

Hey Mr. Nikan, That one is not that funny. Can you tell a better one next time?

You still haven't given your reasons...

[Driver87]

It was the stone guard that I was refering to (just googled and confirmed it), and dont say that other ordinary cars dont have it cos my previous cars had it. All the components which I saw after removing the wheel was same like in any other car(brake discs, ABS, drive shaft, boots, shocks,etc etc..)

How can u see the ABS unit when you remove the wheel? I am not being sarcastic but at least do u know how ABS works???

These are the people who campaign about hybrids claiming they have done a lot of reading about them. Shouldnt you be knowing how the basic things work in a basic car before giving tips to others about hybrids.

[jdnet]

How can u see the ABS unit when you remove the wheel? I am not being sarcastic but at least do u know how ABS works???

These are the people who campaign about hybrids claiming they have done a lot of reading about them. Shouldnt you be knowing how the basic things work in a basic car before giving tips to others about hybrids.

I can picture both these guys frantically searching for the location of the ABS sensors, harness and module on google.

[nano31]

It should be be the ABS sensor not the ABS unit

[Pericles]

You make good points.

One has to be rich enough for the costs of things and money to not be any concern to be a "true" "total" tree hugger. For the rest of us, cost, value for money etc plays some part in the equation. Even in wealthy markets, tax and/or fuel savings are the major factor for hybrid sales.

All you've said by counting yourself in "the rest of us" category is, despite you claiming to be a tree hugger, you're a lier, coz you're just a cheapskate looking to save a few bucks. The hybrid part doesn't matter. If the govt taxed small engines and hybrids, but took tax off big 5l V8 type engines, you'd be pushing that.

People who sell out have no credibility. Now go sell your junk elsewhere.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Pericles

[Californikan]

All you've said by counting yourself in "the rest of category" is, despite you claiming to be a tree hugger, you're a lier, coz you're just a cheapskate looking to save a few bucks. The hybrid part doesn't matter. If the govt taxed small engines and hybrids, but took tax off big 5l V8 type engines, you'd be pushing that.

People who sell out have no credibility. Now go sell your junk elsewhere.

Wow...Pericles...I am flabbergasted and saddened by how narrow, and black/white your thinking process is. Your logic and your conclusion makes no sense at all.

Here's an analogy.

Lets say you have a child and the quality education of your child, and children in general is extremely important to you. It is a passion for you. You are an "educationhugger"

You have the choice of sending your child to 4 schools:

Goverment school - FREE

Private School 1 - Rs1000 a month

Private School 2 - Rs10,000 a month

Private School 3 - Rs100,000 a month

Private school 3 is the best school and you WANT to send your child there, but you can't afford the cost so you send him to Private School 2.

Because cost and money played a role in your decision, and you sent him to School 2 instead of school 3:

Does that make you a person who doesn't care about education??

Does that invalidate your educationhugger status??

Does it make you a hypocrite??

The answer is No of course not.

In the same way someone can care about the environment and be a tree hugger, but at some point in thier personal buying decisions cost comes into the equation.

You accusing me of being a hypocrite because I say cost and money has a part in decisions regarding environment friendliness is as narrow minded as if I were to accuse you of being a hypocrite because cost and money played a part in your educational decisions.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Californikan

[Scooter]

Had a call from me mate, urnemisis. Tells me he is no longer allowed to attend the forum. So sad. His Aunt Flora always used to caution "moderation in moderation." But she might have been wrong.

[Pericles]

You accusing me of being a hypocrite because I say cost and money has a part in decisions regarding environment friendliness is as narrow minded as if I were to accuse you of being a bad parent or a hypocrite because you didn't send your child to the super expensive school.

What utter rot. Completely off topic. And a totally daft scenario, coz more money doesn't always mean better quality. You are pushing hybrids coz they are cheaper, not coz of any environmental concerns. End of story. Just stop lying and admit it.

Had a call from me mate, urnemisis. Tells me he is no longer allowed to attend the forum. So sad. His Aunt Flora always used to caution "moderation in moderation." But she might have been wrong.

Interesting that you would know that. Multiple personality disorder is frowned upon in this community.