Economies Of Using A Diesel Vehical

[udayap]

Dear All,

I thought of starting this thread for the benifit of potential buyers of a diesel car.

With the present hike of the diesel prices, is there a financial benefit of using a diesel car (average user, lets say person who drives 1000 km per month).

I think your experiences on following factors (you may add more) will be supportive to do a proper cost-benefit analysis

1. initial cost of vehicle

2. comparative regulare maintainance costs

3. comparative average fuel consumption

4. registration costs

Edited March 20, 2012 by udayap

[osaka_dude]

with same engine capacity(2L),since diesel has more energy per litre,it would be more fun to drive and would do more kms than a petrol.But Japanese diesels develop many engine troubles when they age...

[Ripper]

with same engine capacity(2L),since diesel has more energy per litre,it would be more fun to drive and would do more kms than a petrol.But Japanese diesels develop many engine troubles when they age...

just out of curiosity...

So diesels are more "fun to drive" that their counterparts that run on petrol? Could you elaborate a bit please?

Like why it's more fun to drive?

Also...what are these "many engine troubles" that "JAP" diesels develop as they age?

Also when you say that, i'm assuming diesel engines from other countries/regions dont have this issue?

I'd love to hear some clarifications cos i too am using an older japanese diesel at this moment.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Ripper

[The Stig]

with same engine capacity(2L),since diesel has more energy per litre,it would be more fun to drive and would do more kms than a petrol.But Japanese diesels develop many engine troubles when they age...

Ahhh another smartass

they just keep coming

[The Don]

Dear All,

I thought of starting this thread for the benifit of potential buyers of a diesel car.

With the present hike of the diesel prices, is there a financial benefit of using a diesel car (average user, lets say person who drives 1000 km per month).

I think your experiences on following factors (you may add more) will be supportive to do a proper cost-benefit analysis

1. initial cost of vehicle

2. comparative regulare maintainance costs

3. comparative average fuel consumption

4. registration costs

I think you need to think of individual circumstances to do some analysis. For example things like the amount of time you are likely to hold on to the vehicle, the current age of the vehicle, the current wear and tear of the vehicle, the number of passengers who are likely to ride on it regularly also need to be factored in.

And fuel consumption largely depends on the size of the vehicle. As a comparable figure an E46 318i usually does about 30mpg while the E46 320D (common rail) achieves over 40mpg in comparable driving conditions. But of course both can only house 5 adults.

[Cyclist]

Small diesel vehicles were cheaper in day-to-day run before the diesel price hike , still it has a comparatively frequent and expensive service cost.

I have a small diesel van, 8 seater, other than the higher pasenger capacity , now there is no extra financial benefit. With air conditioning turned on, it costs almost same as a petrol car per kilometer in the city.

[Cyclist]

with same engine capacity(2L),since diesel has more energy per litre,it would be more fun to drive and would do more kms than a petrol.But Japanese diesels develop many engine troubles when they age...

I dont know how come the diesels are more fun to drive , but surely Jap diesel engines are not crappy. mine clocks 380000+ KMs , and still goes strong. and never-ever stalled on the road.

[udayap]

Small diesel vehicles were cheaper in day-to-day run before the diesel price hike , still it has a comparatively frequent and expensive service cost.

I have a small diesel van, 8 seater, other than the higher pasenger capacity , now there is no extra financial benefit. With air conditioning turned on, it costs almost same as a petrol car per kilometer in the city.

Regarding frequent and expensive service cost........

for my petrol car (toyota 1nzfe) service cost (every 5000 km) : engine oil = 2900 Rs, Oil filter = 1300 rs and total 4200.00

air filter (every 20000 km) = 4000 rs

is this routing maintainace cost is higer in a comparable diesel car

[udayap]

I think you need to think of individual circumstances to do some analysis. For example things like the amount of time you are likely to hold on to the vehicle, the current age of the vehicle, the current wear and tear of the vehicle, the number of passengers who are likely to ride on it regularly also need to be factored in.

And fuel consumption largely depends on the size of the vehicle. As a comparable figure an E46 318i usually does about 30mpg while the E46 320D (common rail) achieves over 40mpg in comparable driving conditions. But of course both can only house 5 adults.

I suppose you are using "super diesel" for 320 D. Considering the high service cost mentioned by other members, would it be economical to use a petrol vehicle

[Sylvi]

Members,

Petrol engine is cheaper to maintain Diesel engine is more expensive than petrol engine.

Today's D/N papers has a advertisement to say(LPG convention) for Rupees 60/= can save on a liter of petrol to run the car. For one liter.

I contacted them over the telephone they explained the complete system.

They fix four LPG GAS injectors to the head of the engine and it is controlled by similar system as the EFI control unit they fix a separate control unit same as what we have at present, to the car with a guarantee of two years. Entire system will cost around Rupees 65000.00.

I am not advertising them only give the information.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[rangerover]

My earlier car was a facelift E46 CRDI 320D. Was an absolute joy to drive! A lot had to do with the amount of torque that car produced! BMW turbo diesels are an absolute joy.

[Cyclist]

Regarding frequent and expensive service cost........

for my petrol car (toyota 1nzfe) service cost (every 5000 km) : engine oil = 2900 Rs, Oil filter = 1300 rs and total 4200.00

air filter (every 20000 km) = 4000 rs

is this routing maintainace cost is higer in a comparable diesel car

my 94 Vanette van requires service at 4000kms which costs around 5000.00

That includes a cheap oil filter ( brand called Sakura Rs 800) + 5 liters of DS40 + 14 grease points + full wash + interior cleaning

Diesel filter (VC brand) changed at 15000km for 3500.00. it has a 20000km life as said by the service station, but i change it before that suspecting quality of our fuel. I dont remember the cost of the air filter. must be some where around 3000.00

hope this helps

[harshansenadhir]

usually a diesel vehicle will squeeze better MPG/ KMPL than the petrol counter part thanks to the higher compression ratio and fuel injection (only GDI can match this fuel injection in Petrol)

Even if the prices are equal, there will still be a benefit of running a diesel. Only downside is engine wear and tare is high again thanks to the higher compression ratio of the diesel engines. The worldwide trend is small diesel cars and/or diesel hybrids and also most of environment concerned governments are promoting / encouraging diesel vehicles due to it's eco friendliness (in contrary to the popular belief) than petrol vehicles.

on another aspect, diesel vehicles can be used with alternative fuel such as bio-diesel

[Ripper]

usually a diesel vehicle will squeeze better MPG/ KMPL than the petrol counter part thanks to the higher compression ratio and fuel injection (only GDI can match this fuel injection in Petrol)

Even if the prices are equal, there will still be a benefit of running a diesel. Only downside is engine wear and tare is high again thanks to the higher compression ratio of the diesel engines. The worldwide trend is small diesel cars and/or diesel hybrids and also most of environment concerned governments are promoting / encouraging diesel vehicles due to it's eco friendliness (in contrary to the popular belief) than petrol vehicles.

on another aspect, diesel vehicles can be used with alternative fuel such as bio-diesel

1+

also if you require low end torque...nothing quite beats a diesel.

Recently had to pull out a damsel in distress on a CRV. car was reversed into a deep ditch and two wheels were in the ditch.

pulled it out on 4wd low range with a slight tap of the accelerator. dint take more than a few seconds

another downside of diesel is relatively poor acceleration.

[harshansenadhir]

1+

also if you require low end torque...nothing quite beats a diesel.

Recently had to pull out a damsel in distress on a CRV. car was reversed into a deep ditch and two wheels were in the ditch.

pulled it out on 4wd low range with a slight tap of the accelerator. dint take more than a few seconds

another downside of diesel is relatively poor acceleration.

low end torque and not having the hassle to start the engine coz you suddenly released the clutch. The governer in the injector pump will make sure the engine won't stall, impressive for beginners.

Poor acceleration will no longer be there when a diesel engine equipped with ECU driven common rail injection coupled with Turbo intercooler.

Ever driven a 406 HDi ?

[terrabytetango]

And don't forget that LeMans has been dominated by diesels since 2006. The biggest advantage they have is lower frequency of refueling due to their engines' efficiency.

[The Don]

usually a diesel vehicle will squeeze better MPG/ KMPL than the petrol counter part thanks to the higher compression ratio and fuel injection (only GDI can match this fuel injection in Petrol)

Even if the prices are equal, there will still be a benefit of running a diesel. Only downside is engine wear and tare is high again thanks to the higher compression ratio of the diesel engines. The worldwide trend is small diesel cars and/or diesel hybrids and also most of environment concerned governments are promoting / encouraging diesel vehicles due to it's eco friendliness (in contrary to the popular belief) than petrol vehicles.

on another aspect, diesel vehicles can be used with alternative fuel such as bio-diesel

Harshan, in the UK diesel costs nearly 10p more than petrol but in most brands diesels now outsell the petrols (PSA brands and the Germans). The higher compression can induce more wear and tear but remember diesel cars run at relatively lower rpms for most of their lives so technically the wear and tear can actually be lower. In fact it is generally accepted that you can get more miles out of a diesel than a petrol (hence people have no issues buying high mileage diesels)

[harshansenadhir]

Harshan, in the UK diesel costs nearly 10p more than petrol but in most brands diesels now outsell the petrols (PSA brands and the Germans). The higher compression can induce more wear and tear but remember diesel cars run at relatively lower rpms for most of their lives so technically the wear and tear can actually be lower. In fact it is generally accepted that you can get more miles out of a diesel than a petrol (hence people have no issues buying high mileage diesels)

lower RPM contributes towards lower wear and tear was never occurred to me

I'm a member of one of UK based 406 forum and they bash the diesels ( I would say abuse) not changing oil even at 20k (yes one member admitted that he ran in excess of 20k miles without an oil change) and lots of lots of DIY and cheap fixing just to get MOT passed all that. With all these, diesel vehicles (engines I would say) lasts longer than petrol counterparts it seems.

Come to think of it, even in SL context it's valid as diesel were (and still are) cheap, people tend to run diesel vehicles excessively, yet again they do last.

For some reason, wear and tear of diesel engines in SL context is higher than petrol. Say, an average diesel engine requires an overhall around 200k kilometers but i've seen many examples of petrol engines (old KE72s, Lancer C12s, boxes and what not) runs with mileages close to 500k without needing an overhaul.

Trick is, when the wear and tear reaches a level in a diesel, it refuses to start (not matching required compression to self-ignite diesel oil) yet, petrol, you have the ignition to burn the fuel mixture although the engine is under compression and burns oils, piston slaps what not.

Diesel engine wear out quickly than petrol engine, may not be the correct term, but "needing an overhaul quicker/earlier than Petrol engine" would be.

[The Don]

lower RPM contributes towards lower wear and tear was never occurred to me

I'm a member of one of UK based 406 forum and they bash the diesels ( I would say abuse) not changing oil even at 20k (yes one member admitted that he ran in excess of 20k miles without an oil change) and lots of lots of DIY and cheap fixing just to get MOT passed all that. With all these, diesel vehicles (engines I would say) lasts longer than petrol counterparts it seems.

Come to think of it, even in SL context it's valid as diesel were (and still are) cheap, people tend to run diesel vehicles excessively, yet again they do last.

For some reason, wear and tear of diesel engines in SL context is higher than petrol. Say, an average diesel engine requires an overhall around 200k kilometers but i've seen many examples of petrol engines (old KE72s, Lancer C12s, boxes and what not) runs with mileages close to 500k without needing an overhaul.

Trick is, when the wear and tear reaches a level in a diesel, it refuses to start (not matching required compression to self-ignite diesel oil) yet, petrol, you have the ignition to burn the fuel mixture although the engine is under compression and burns oils, piston slaps what not.

Diesel engine wear out quickly than petrol engine, may not be the correct term, but "needing an overhaul quicker/earlier than Petrol engine" would be.

Harshan, you forget one thing again The mileage on most vehicles in Sri Lanka is generally unreliable. Most diesel vehicles imported in the past was imported second hand from Japan and the diesels generally had at least 100k on the clocks before they were sold, irrespective of what the clocks said when they reached our shores. So I think the diesels are doing a lot more miles than people think before they require an overhaul.

And you are right petrols will still run under compression for a while, but diesels will fall off the cliff very soon. Generally diesel related issues are mostly related to the high sulphur crappy diesel we get in SL I think contributing to higher carbon build up and wear and tear on the components.

In Europe you generally can get more miles from a diesel than a petrol before an overhaul.

[The Stig]

usually a diesel vehicle will squeeze better MPG/ KMPL than the petrol counter part thanks to the higher compression ratio and fuel injection (only GDI can match this fuel injection in Petrol)

To add something you missed Diesel as a fuel source has a higher energy density meaning a diesel engine will require less diesel in terms of volume to produce the same amount of power compared to a Petrol engine.

[Nadda]

have a 1995 CB8, powered by a 4D68 2 ltr, its a brand new, has 214000 on the clock, and does 13 kmpl in city and 16+ kmpl on highway, the vehicle pulls well, and and no major repairs were done i its life time ( yes, no overhaul), there are little drops of engine oil leaking from the air filter, but no significant oil loss,

as i have experienced..

advantages are

1. low cost on fuel, and better efficiency.

2. Torque- which helps to shift at low RPM , low RPM helps he engine to live longer,

3. since its a manual it can keep up with many vehicles on the road,

disadvantages are

1.high cost on services as you already know,

2.high vibration causes few problems, engine mounts expire early, dash broads get all rattling,

3.low acceleration.

4.repair costs make you helpless,

[udayap]

In nutsell it seems if super diesel is used, there is no financial gain of using a diesel vechicle. This logic seems to be correct for a Diesel SUV (hundai tucson-diesel) vs Toyota RAV4 (petrol)

[Sampath Gunasekera]

usually a diesel vehicle will squeeze better MPG/ KMPL than the petrol counter part thanks to the higher compression ratio and fuel injection (only GDI can match this fuel injection in Petrol)

Yes , we had a brand new Maruti Zen Diesel (Zen-D) imported under my Aunty's permit in 1999. This is one of the first two Zen- Diesel cars imported to Sri Lanka (Reg. number was 65-5443 and i have seen only 5-6 Zen diesel cars in Sri Lanka) .

Really it did good on fuel and even in side the city, fuel economy was around 17km/l.

However diesel version came without power steering and bit difficult to handle until someone familiar with driving it. Car was too heavy.

Funny thing is, sometimes pump operators at filling stations forced me to come to petrol filling pumps. Then I had to pointed out the number plate.

We rarely used it and sold after three years.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Sampath Gunasekera

[The Don]

In nutsell it seems if super diesel is used, there is no financial gain of using a diesel vechicle. This logic seems to be correct for a Diesel SUV (hundai tucson-diesel) vs Toyota RAV4 (petrol)

No Udaya, even when super diesel is used there is still a benefit but its a bit longer term. You should get a few more miles out of super diesel but also there will be a positive effect on the engine internals due to the lower sulphur content, which should help it run a bit longer.....

[udayap]

No Udaya, even when super diesel is used there is still a benefit but its a bit longer term. You should get a few more miles out of super diesel but also there will be a positive effect on the engine internals due to the lower sulphur content, which should help it run a bit longer.....

Thanks Don correcting me. I had a wrong idea that low S content would not improve the fuel efficiency.