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A/c Not Cooling Efficiently


timmy

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Hi All,

I think there is a prob with my Lancer's air conditioning. The A/C is not cooling properly as it used to, even when temp and blower have been maxed out. I previously thought it maybe due to the unbearable heat until i heard that another Lancer of the same model has no such cooling issues in the same weather.

When I turn on the A/C I can hear the radiator fan kicking in. But then it stays ON for the entire ride. Previously, this fan used to work intermittently. That is when i halted my car, I could hear the fan cutoff and switch back on after a few mintues of being stationery. And when this fan used to work like this (intermittently) the cooling was all fine, if not adequate. But now it seems that the fan is indicating that there is an error in the air conditioning system and hence the lower cooling efficiency.

About 2 years back I had a similar ac problem. When I turned on the AC only hot air came thru it. I took it to an ac repairer and they serviced the entire system , regassed it and installed a new cooling coil since they aid they found a slow leak in it (which i also saw). But now, there is some cooling in the A/C but it is by no means enough.

My question is, is this normal ? If the fan is continously runnig when AC is operational does it suggest that there is a prob with the AC system ? Pls respond with advice.

thanx,

Tim.

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  timmy said:
If the fan is continously runnig when AC is operational does it suggest that there is a prob with the AC system

NOPE! AC is not connected to the radiator. The radiator fan can kick in sooner with AC on due to the added stress put on to the engine and the excess hear generated in doing so.

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  Ripper said:
NOPE! AC is not connected to the radiator. The radiator fan can kick in sooner with AC on due to the added stress put on to the engine and the excess hear generated in doing so.

I thought the radiator fan is meant to switch on as soon as the AC is operational so as to ease cooling the AC condenser out in the front. Isn't it so ? IF not why is it that when the engine is started and you revv it up thoroughly the fan wouldn't kick in immediately, but for a slight load increase (as you say) from the AC, the fan kicks in ?

However I still think the fan running continously is a problem and linked to the AC not cooling efficently. I've noticed in other cars this fan works intermittently when their AC is on. It used to be like that in mine.

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  timmy said:
Hi All,

I think there is a prob with my Lancer's air conditioning. The A/C is not cooling properly as it used to, even when temp and blower have been maxed out. I previously thought it maybe due to the unbearable heat until i heard that another Lancer of the same model has no such cooling issues in the same weather.

When I turn on the A/C I can hear the radiator fan kicking in. But then it stays ON for the entire ride. Previously, this fan used to work intermittently. That is when i halted my car, I could hear the fan cutoff and switch back on after a few mintues of being stationery. And when this fan used to work like this (intermittently) the cooling was all fine, if not adequate. But now it seems that the fan is indicating that there is an error in the air conditioning system and hence the lower cooling efficiency.

About 2 years back I had a similar ac problem. When I turned on the AC only hot air came thru it. I took it to an ac repairer and they serviced the entire system , regassed it and installed a new cooling coil since they aid they found a slow leak in it (which i also saw). But now, there is some cooling in the A/C but it is by no means enough.

My question is, is this normal ? If the fan is continously runnig when AC is operational does it suggest that there is a prob with the AC system ? Pls respond with advice.

thanx,

Tim.

you're running low on refrigerant AKA GAS in your A/C system. Hence evaporator doesn't reach the expected temperature (+ 50 C degrees) and does not cut off compressor supply. Compressor and A/C condenser cooling fan (not radiator cooling fan) driven by same supply means, when compressor is running the said cooling fan will also be running. This is the reason why it doesn't run intermittently. I'm sure if you check at cold nights, it will cut off intermittently. Get your system checked by a good A/C repair guy for possible leaks by keep it pressurized using nitrogen over night before refilling refrigerant.

Edited by harshansenadhir
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  harshansenadhir said:
you're running low on refrigerant AKA GAS in your A/C system. Hence evaporator doesn't reach the expected temperature (+ 50 C degrees) and does not cut off compressor supply. Compressor and A/C condenser cooling fan (not radiator cooling fan) driven by same supply means, when compressor is running the said cooling fan will also be running. This is the reason why it doesn't run intermittently. I'm sure if you check at cold nights, it will cut off intermittently. Get your system checked by a good A/C repair guy for possible leaks by keep it pressurized using nitrogen over night before refilling refrigerant.

thanx harshan,

does this mean the compressor is running full time (without cutting intermittently) in trying to reach the desired temperature ? Is this the reason why the car is not doing well on fuel as well ?

Yes by radiator fan, I meant the BIG fan under the bonnet which cools both the engine rad and the AC condenser.

I got this regassed and a new cooling coil (fitted under the dash) from A*CO in Nugegoda about 2 years back. Is that how long an AC service can hold on to ? How can I fix this for good, i mean if the leak is outside (under the bonnet) and not in the cooling coils found under the dash ?

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  timmy said:
thanx harshan,

does this mean the compressor is running full time (without cutting intermittently) in trying to reach the desired temperature ? Is this the reason why the car is not doing well on fuel as well ?

Yes by radiator fan, I meant the BIG fan under the bonnet which cools both the engine rad and the AC condenser.

I got this regassed and a new cooling coil (fitted under the dash) from A*CO in Nugegoda about 2 years back. Is that how long an AC service can hold on to ? How can I fix this for good, i mean if the leak is outside (under the bonnet) and not in the cooling coils found under the dash ?

Usually there is a pressure switch which gauges the pressure on the system and cuts off the compressor if pressure is lower than a certain threshold. This is to prevent compressor being damaged running without refrigerant which also works as lubricant for the compressor. May be yours

1. still have some gas left and hadn't reach this threshold to cut off the compressor

2. someone removed pressure switch or bypassed it

you can judge whether the compressor runs fulltime by close inspection on the A/C compressor pulley.

2 years is considerably a long period and a leak could've occurred due to some reason, so better get it checked for leaks, I mean the entire system including tubing should pressurized with nitrogen and check for leaks, not only the cooler matrix.

Edited by harshansenadhir
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  Bugatti said:
Could also be an issue with the condenser fan. I has such an issue recently n had to replace the fan (cost about 3k) either way, get your AC system checked properly..

Negative, if at all it could be an issue in the relay which triggers the condenser fan. Also if the condenser fan runs continuously it should contribute towards getting better cool off from the A/C system.

Edited by harshansenadhir
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  harshansenadhir said:
2 years is considerably a long period and a leak could've occurred due to some reason, so better get it checked for leaks, I mean the entire system including tubing should pressurized with nitrogen and check for leaks, not only the cooler matrix.

could you kindly explain how they check for leaks by filling the system with nitrogen. I want know this before I get it serviced so that I dont get ripped off. When they checked for leaks in the cooler matrix, they filled it up with "some gas" and put the matrix in a tub of water. I saw bubbles coming out of it quite slowly, so we assumed this was the leak. Now how do you do this for the tubes ? Cos the condenser can also go in the tub of water, but the tubing how do u check for leaks in that ? Do you have to rip them off one by one and put them in the tub ? or is there any easier way ? and why use nitrogen ? what is specific about nirtogn to finding leaks ?

thanx all for your replies.

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  timmy said:
could you kindly explain how they check for leaks by filling the system with nitrogen. I want know this before I get it serviced so that I dont get ripped off. When they checked for leaks in the cooler matrix, they filled it up with "some gas" and put the matrix in a tub of water. I saw bubbles coming out of it quite slowly, so we assumed this was the leak. Now how do you do this for the tubes ? Cos the condenser can also go in the tub of water, but the tubing how do u check for leaks in that ? Do you have to rip them off one by one and put them in the tub ? or is there any easier way ? and why use nitrogen ? what is specific about nirtogn to finding leaks ?

thanx all for your replies.

well, it's all depend how the A/C technician trouble shoots. Entire system to be pressurized to around 250 ~ 280 psi and kept for sometime until pressure stabilizes. Check for visible drop in pressure. If notice a pressure drop then need to find out where exactly the leak is.

First check for obvious leaks from gas charging valves and some flexible joints which they do using some sort of soap bubble solution (washing powder? ;)). If there are no visible leaks, next is to check for leaks on condenser and cooler matrix by isolating. If condenser, cooler and compressor is good and no leaks found, then again replace all back in place with new washers and re-pressurize. If it drops pressure any further, it must be tubing. Take tubing out to find out where exactly the leak is and replace that tube / or replace entire tubing is up to the owner of the car I guess.

Why use nitrogen, can pressurize, can buy cheaper, doesn't contain moisture and doesn't condense like atmosphere air.

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  harshansenadhir said:
Negative, if at all it could be an issue in the relay which triggers the condenser fan. Also if the condenser fan runs continuously it should contribute towards getting better cool off from the A/C system.

Errr.. not really.. my relays were fine.. jst that the condenser fan motor was going bust/weakened and was spinning slower than it should. Believe me, I was there when it was fitted, n immediately there after th problem was sorted.

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  Bugatti said:
Errr.. not really.. my relays were fine.. jst that the condenser fan motor was going bust/weakened and was spinning slower than it should. Believe me, I was there when it was fitted, n immediately there after th problem was sorted.

well, could be the issue in your case and cooling was not effective since condensor fan was spinning slowly. However in this case fan runs continuously without stopping, and i'm waiting for one more observation that is whether compressor cuts off or not. If the fan runs slowly it should cut off the compressor as system over pressures. That's why i said this can't be an issue with fan itself.

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  harshansenadhir said:
well, it's all depend how the A/C technician trouble shoots. Entire system to be pressurized to around 250 ~ 280 psi and kept for sometime until pressure stabilizes. Check for visible drop in pressure. If notice a pressure drop then need to find out where exactly the leak is.

First check for obvious leaks from gas charging valves and some flexible joints which they do using some sort of soap bubble solution (washing powder? ;)). If there are no visible leaks, next is to check for leaks on condenser and cooler matrix by isolating. If condenser, cooler and compressor is good and no leaks found, then again replace all back in place with new washers and re-pressurize. If it drops pressure any further, it must be tubing. Take tubing out to find out where exactly the leak is and replace that tube / or replace entire tubing is up to the owner of the car I guess.

Why use nitrogen, can pressurize, can buy cheaper, doesn't contain moisture and doesn't condense like atmosphere air.

Oh dang, this sounds like a major op. Last time the A*CO technicians did something similar, but dint check the tubes. THey just installed 1 or 2 new tubes though. But the condeser and the cooler matrix were filled with air and submerged in a water tub.

I'd like to get this whole things sorted out even if it means having to spend, but the thought of having the car ripped again and the time wasted doing it, is really bothersome. I wished there was an easy way out, but seems like there isnt one to check the leaks and seal it off easily. I will report back once I get it fixed. Thanx a lot for your insight.

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  timmy said:
Oh dang, this sounds like a major op. Last time the A*CO technicians did something similar, but dint check the tubes. THey just installed 1 or 2 new tubes though. But the condeser and the cooler matrix were filled with air and submerged in a water tub.

I'd like to get this whole things sorted out even if it means having to spend, but the thought of having the car ripped again and the time wasted doing it, is really bothersome. I wished there was an easy way out, but seems like there isnt one to check the leaks and seal it off easily. I will report back once I get it fixed. Thanx a lot for your insight.

well nothing to get sacred of. I just told you the diagnosing procedure from simplest to the worst. If you're lucky enough, the leak will be there in the gas charging valves, high and low pressure valves precisely or even condensor is not a pain to replace than the cooler or some tubing.

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Take it back to ATCO - they are good people - the last time I had a prob they fixed my AC for free.

They are trust-able - you can drop off the vehicle early morning, and pick it up in the evening.

Actually they are one of the few companies in this country that I still recommend...

Edited by Saturn
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  Saturn said:
Take it back to ATCO - they are good people - the last time I had a prob they fixed my AC for free.

They are trust-able - you can drop off the vehicle early morning, and pick it up in the evening.

Actually they are one of the few companies in this country that I still recommend...

Thanx for the recommendation,

I spoke to them over the phone. They said that the warranty is only valid for 1 year. I too believe they did a good job last time. Now I remember that when they were fitting back the condenser after checking for leaks, that the condenser is faulty showing several places where the grilles were about to die. However they never asked me to replace the condenser. Had they recommended I would have done that too. I think the condenser must have sprung up a leak now. After searching in this forum too I found that most JDM cars come with thin condensers. Mine is also JDM and has a less than 1 inch thick condenser. So this could also be the reason for lower cooling capability.

The only thing for me from taking the car back to ATCO is having to see the car being stripped again and inspected. But I will give it a try sometime soon. Maybe ATCO will do it at a concessionary price.

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  timmy said:
Thanx for the recommendation,

I spoke to them over the phone. They said that the warranty is only valid for 1 year. I too believe they did a good job last time. Now I remember that when they were fitting back the condenser after checking for leaks, that the condenser is faulty showing several places where the grilles were about to die. However they never asked me to replace the condenser. Had they recommended I would have done that too. I think the condenser must have sprung up a leak now. After searching in this forum too I found that most JDM cars come with thin condensers. Mine is also JDM and has a less than 1 inch thick condenser. So this could also be the reason for lower cooling capability.

The only thing for me from taking the car back to ATCO is having to see the car being stripped again and inspected. But I will give it a try sometime soon. Maybe ATCO will do it at a concessionary price.

mate...i too have a jdm car with a thin condenser as you say... but mine can freeze your balls to the seat if you let it :P

i honestly don't think the thin condenser has anything to do with...I've been running mine for years now without the condenser getting faulted.

Recently replaced the fan after it going bust....before that replaced the cooler unit after that springing a tiny TINY leak...

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  Ripper said:
mate...i too have a jdm car with a thin condenser as you say... but mine can freeze your balls to the seat if you let it :P

i honestly don't think the thin condenser has anything to do with...I've been running mine for years now without the condenser getting faulted.

Recently replaced the fan after it going bust....before that replaced the cooler unit after that springing a tiny TINY leak...

this thin condensor is a wrong way of looking at the cooling efficiency. It should be the effective heat exchanging area. Thickness is only one parameter. height, width and number of tubes running from end to end, condition of the fins, amount of dust and thickness of dirt cover on top of those tubes (;)) all matters.

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  harshansenadhir said:
this thin condensor is a wrong way of looking at the cooling efficiency. It should be the effective heat exchanging area. Thickness is only one parameter. height, width and number of tubes running from end to end, condition of the fins, amount of dust and thickness of dirt cover on top of those tubes (;)) all matters.

yeah...before my condenser fan eventually died...i was getting weird performance from the ac. Sometimes it would work perfect and at times not.

I thought a relay must be becoming faulty until one fine day...the fan died completely.

Still the ac would work ok if i'm driving fast...

once the fan was replaced last saturday over a few beers... everything is back to normal.

Btw....my fan died after it getting strangled by a piece of shopping bag...

god knows how the hell that thing got in there...i suppose it was running with the polythene strangling it for a while before eventually seizing up.

will try to open the motor over the weekend and see what went wrong :)

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  Ripper said:
....before that replaced the cooler unit after that springing a tiny TINY leak...

a TINY leak was all that it took for me to replace my cooling matrix last time. But anyways Im not comfy with the idea of havin the car being stripped jus to check for leaks again and having to kill time for that.

I thought the thin condenser could be too much for the harsh weather here. But if you're willing to bet with your crown jewels that a thin condenser could not be a problem then im gonna take it.

As for my fan, I think it works ok, cos I dont feel it give up at all. It seems to work fine (with the same whirring sound) even on long distances. So I dont think it's dying and the loss of cooling capability is due to its weakening (if there is).

Edited by timmy
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  Ripper said:
yeah...before my condenser fan eventually died...i was getting weird performance from the ac. Sometimes it would work perfect and at times not.

I thought a relay must be becoming faulty until one fine day...the fan died completely.

Still the ac would work ok if i'm driving fast...

once the fan was replaced last saturday over a few beers... everything is back to normal.

Btw....my fan died after it getting strangled by a piece of shopping bag...

god knows how the hell that thing got in there...i suppose it was running with the polythene strangling it for a while before eventually seizing up.

will try to open the motor over the weekend and see what went wrong :)

polythene strangled? flood comes to my mind ;)

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