Mitsubishi Jeep 4Dr5 Break Problem

charakadas · April 8, 2012

Hi,

I need an advice on 4dr5 jeep brek system

I have a j44 and it has the original break master pump,recently when i changed the master cylinder washers, bass said the cylinder was roughend."kapila"

So do i have to changed the master cylinder? Can i repair it?

Thankx

harshansenadhir · April 9, 2012

you can opt to

1. re-bore it and put a sleve inside and use a original repair kit (seiken) or

2. replace with either a brandnew (which is very expensive, close to 50k) or a used master pump.

Watchman · April 9, 2012

J32/J44 brake replacements upgrades have been discussed quite a lot.. do a search and a few really useful threads will show up

charakadas · April 9, 2012

hi harshansenadhir,

do you know the base price of a recondition break pump ?

or if i were to repair

where i can buy the original repair kit (seiken)?

thankx

Edited April 9, 2012 by charakadas

harshansenadhir · April 10, 2012

price? not really, as even the price I quoted of a brand new pump was being told by willys about few years back.

where to buy the original repair kit ?

usual jeep spare places such as Wasantha motors and Willys. Specially willys had them. There is another (chanoma automobiles or s'thing, a small joint in Panchikawatta) guy who does have a washer kit (sieken) and also if you take the master pump, he will replace the washers of the pistons.

Will search through my card holder and provide the numbers. However, I recommend a visit to one of those jeep spare parts places and get it sorted.

Edited April 10, 2012 by harshansenadhir

charakadas · April 10, 2012

thank you harshansenadhir,

before you told i didnt know about this original part kit,so i replace it with the usual 750 bucks repair washers..

but after your op,i will repair with original parts

a guy in k`gala ask me 25000 bucks for master pump (recondition).. is it worth ?

is there are special thing to look when i buy it.

thankx..

Nishan.dj · October 22, 2012

On 4/8/2012 at 5:49 PM, charakadas said:

Hi,

I need an advice on 4dr5 jeep brek system

I have a j44 and it has the original break master pump,recently when i changed the master cylinder washers, bass said the cylinder was roughend."kapila"

So do i have to changed the master cylinder? Can i repair it?

Thankx

I did a brake booster conversion with master pump and also added an extra vacuum tank as well.

The 4DR5 master pump 15/16 inch one and I put 1 inch pajero master pump and booster together because repairing the original booster costs more. The booster and pump together costs me 7500LKR.

Once you convert the booster you have to think about the vacuum tank as well because as the booster is larger the original vacuum tank is not able to suck the whole air so you will feel that the brake pedal is little hard. Therefore if you really want to feel the brakes much better, you have to add a vacuum tank as well.

What I did was that; I got an empty GAS cylinder and fix it under the engine bay and marge with the existing vacuum system. I must thank to Mr. Sylvi Wijesinghe for investigating and supervising this task.

Now almost everything related to the booster pump and vacuum is complete and with the vacuum meter inside, I can see the level of vacuum as well.

Vacuum tanks are available in local market as well for the price of 4000LKR but they are used and GAS cylinder is much better in any way because It is heavy and tested well.

You will complete this work within 25K (I think) and finally will get much performance on brakes. You can contact me anytime on this issue and I can advice as I know;

Thanks

Watchman · October 22, 2012

You have a gas cylinder hanging under your jeep like an elephant's nut-sack?

A GAS cylinder? like the one my mom uses for the cooker to make pol-roti for dinner?

Sylvi oh sylvi,.. you give a whole new definition to the term Maka baas

Watchman · October 22, 2012

On 10/22/2012 at 9:26 AM, Nishan.dj said:

You will complete this work within 25K (I think) and finally will get much performance on brakes. You can contact me anytime on this issue and I can advice as I know;

Thanks

Sorry to burst your happy bubble, but you could have had the job done much neater and maybe even cheaper than what you had done...

We have a 4dr5 at home too, and except for the pedal set (which was a 4dr5 set) everything else was from another vehicle (not a kitchen).. the entire setup came to around 10k (with the pedal set and the servo from hyundai or isuzu van) if I recall right....

Simplelife · October 22, 2012

On 10/22/2012 at 9:26 AM, Nishan.dj said:

I

What I did was that; I got an empty GAS cylinder and fix it under the engine bay and marge with the existing vacuum system. I must thank to Mr. Sylvi Wijesinghe for investigating and supervising this task.

Do you mind posting a pic of your jeep? Would love to see how the gas cylinder hangin on it...

Edited October 22, 2012 by Simplelife

Nishan.dj · October 22, 2012

Its a very small empty gas cylinder I got and attached the vacuum lines to it with a non-return valve. Its a DIY project and the outcome is very good. Check out this link .. you may get some other tank to keep the vacuum.

Nishan.dj · October 22, 2012

On 10/22/2012 at 10:11 AM, Watchman said:

Sorry to burst your happy bubble, but you could have had the job done much neater and maybe even cheaper than what you had done...

We have a 4dr5 at home too, and except for the pedal set (which was a 4dr5 set) everything else was from another vehicle (not a kitchen).. the entire setup came to around 10k (with the pedal set and the servo from hyundai or isuzu van) if I recall right....

Of course, You can find a vacuum tank from the market around 4-5K may be from a Van or so to fit the original space which you may have to remove the original tank. Anyway If not you may need additional works to attach the vacuum lines to the one you have now. I found that almost all the vacuum tanks [used] are rusty and having some corrosion. Since it is brakes, I did it this way. Anyhow it gives more vacuum power now but you must have a good exhaust system to do so too.

Watchman · October 22, 2012

On 10/22/2012 at 11:02 AM, Nishan.dj said:

Of course, You can find a vacuum tank from the market around 4-5K may be from a Van or so to fit the original space which you may have to remove the original tank. Anyway If not you may need additional works to attach the vacuum lines to the one you have now. I found that almost all the vacuum tanks [used] are rusty and having some corrosion. Since it is brakes, I did it this way. Anyhow it gives more vacuum power now but you must have a good exhaust system to do so too.

Well, i have to disagree with you on the fact that you cant find a good brake/vacuum cylinder. If its so, half the vehicles on our roads would be running with pots and pans and other kitchen utensils under the hood. Just because the exterior is a bit scratched up and rusty doesnt mean the internals are bad. Remember there ARE coming from either scrapped or condemned vehicles and they just rip out these parts and throw them in a stack in the yard till its shipped off to SL. If you want spotless shiny ones go buy something brand new.

Anyway, jokes aside, You really are overdoing it. Even with a slightly 'more than needed' servo one problem i have noticed is that the pressure/force that's created is too much for the pistons in the drums, so you'll have a few cracked brake washers over the year. Based on how you've done your brake lines; single line split into 4 (going to each wheels) or 4 parallel lines this will give you very different behaviors. The former will cause your brakes to fade on all four wheels while the later would maintain the braking force on the 3 good wheels while the 4th looses stopping power, and hence giving some pretty erratic pull. Ours has 4 individual lines so I know when a brake washer's gone and needs replacing. Not that complex, just a bit of hassle, that's all.

There's the possibility of changing these pistons but it doesnt make sense in my case, because the idea is to replace both the axles as a whole. Ours is a petrol-to-diesel converted jeep hence the dif ratios are lower. Accelerates very nicely but tops out too soon.

Anyway all the best and DO be careful with your new setup. And I'm sure we're all quite keen on seeing your gas cylinder so it would be really nice if you could share it with us.

Nishan.dj · October 23, 2012

On 10/22/2012 at 3:08 PM, Watchman said:

i have noticed is that the pressure/force that's created is too much for the pistons in the drums, so you'll have a few cracked brake washers over the year. Based on how you've done your brake lines; single line split into 4 (going to each wheels) or 4 parallel lines this will give you very different behaviors. The former will cause your brakes to fade on all four wheels while the later would maintain the braking force on the 3 good wheels while the 4th looses stopping power, and hence giving some pretty erratic pull. Ours has 4 individual lines so I know when a brake washer's gone and needs replacing. Not that complex, just a bit of hassle, that's all.

There's the possibility of changing these pistons but it doesnt make sense in my case, because the idea is to replace both the axles as a whole.

Hi Watchman,

Thanks for the good points you mentioned above. Certainly as you wrote, I must concern about brake washers and related parts which I think your point is correct. Anyway I got all system serviced with replacing washers and all after doing this conversion and I think it would be better. I have parallel lines and of course as you said, if I have had a single lines split to each wheel I should have concerned more. I also checked the pistons and also had an idea to change them as well but ultimately it was not required.

Thank you for pointing out a good advice on "few cracked brake washers over the year" which I will keep it tough with what's going on there with new system. If it fails certainly I will post. But so far, As I was mentioned, the vacuum level I get is really good and I think having a vacuum meter also a good idea because It gives me a good chance to get an idea about breaking especially when I drive off the road. [Not on contests but in real situations].

My next attempt is to fixing 2 volt meters such as these to measure the battery performance when I want. It is also an DIY project and I will post once it is done. Thanks for the valuable details you mentioned and, I will post both of these under DIY section with pics and all.