Need Expert Openion On Emission Standard

[TechHater]

_{dear experts}

_{i have ordered a kia sportage for the permit about 6 months back.they are now lagging behind the due date about 11/2 months now.when i inquired about the delay,they say its regarding an engine issue. intially the engine specs were given as 1995cc CRDI with VGT complient to EURO 4-5 standards. but now they say the mother company has decided to fix euro 2 standards to our orders to match our diesel standards(which i feel is good).}

_{my problems are}

1. _{is euro 2 and euro 4 differ only with emission.will perfrmance be affected}
   
2. _{if that is the case why are they still fixing euro 4 engines to sorentos.}
   
3. _{should this conversin include transmission and other vital component chnges as well}
   

_{pls i need background knowladge before i go and discuss about it.}

[TechHater]

any expert openions pls....

[Fixzit]

Sorry I'm not an expert on emission standards. What I do know is that the higher the Euro number, the more strict they are about what you are emitting to the environment..CO2 levels, Carbon monoxide levels and being a diesel.. soot particles..etc also the quality of the diesel you need to use in those cars differs accordingly. Europe is reducing the sulfur in the diesel with every standard upgrade and as far as I know, the maximum sulfur level in diesel sold in UK is 500ppm where in SL it's 3000 and UK sells an ULSD( Ultra low Sulfur Diesel) with 10ppm for new diesel engines. I guess it's a good thing for you that they change the standard backwards but can't say the same for the environment but if you had the vehicle with Euro 4 standard, I'm pretty sure it will come with a DPF (Diesel Particle Filter) which will considerably increase your fuel consumption and stress out your turbo while taking away 10-15hp of your engine. So maybe with Euro 2 you will not get a DPF. I would highly recommend you to only use Cepetco Super diesel in yours though because common rail engines are highly sensitive to the fuel quality and specially the level of sulfur in fuel...

PS:

Ceypetco Normal Diesel 3000ppm

IOC Extra mile 3000ppm

Ceypetco Super Diesel 500ppm

[taba123]

  On 5/29/2012 at 8:52 AM, Fixzit said:

Sorry I'm not an expert on emission standards. What I do know is that the higher the Euro number, the more strict they are about what you are emitting to the environment..CO2 levels, Carbon monoxide levels and being a diesel.. soot particles..etc also the quality of the diesel you need to use in those cars differs accordingly. Europe is reducing the sulfur in the diesel with every standard upgrade and as far as I know, the maximum sulfur level in diesel sold in UK is 500ppm where in SL it's 3000 and UK sells an ULSD( Ultra low Sulfur Diesel) with 10ppm for new diesel engines. I guess it's a good thing for you that they change the standard backwards but can't say the same for the environment but if you had the vehicle with Euro 4 standard, I'm pretty sure it will come with a DPF (Diesel Particle Filter) which will considerably increase your fuel consumption and stress out your turbo while taking away 10-15hp of your engine. So maybe with Euro 2 you will not get a DPF. I would highly recommend you to only use Cepetco Super diesel in yours though because common rail engines are highly sensitive to the fuel quality and specially the level of sulfur in fuel...

PS:

Ceypetco Normal Diesel 3000ppm

IOC Extra mile 3000ppm

Ceypetco Super Diesel 500ppm

Hi fixit and experts,

as like the above mentioned euro standard emission system. even i my self got the DPF (DPNR) fitted in my vehicle. weekly on sundays i find difficulties in cleaning the filter which is a horrible process even i couldnt make any long journeys due to these reason. so in your personal understandings is there any solutions available to get a relieft from this issue.

during the clean up process the check engine light starts blinking and is it ok to keep on driving as usual or is there any other special ways available to drive.

awaiting for ur expert advice on this,

thanks in advance everyone who help me on this

[Fixzit]

It would be easy if you can let me know what is the model of your car. Generally when you get the dpf light on that means either there is a block or the ecu assumes your dpf could be blocked so it try to initiate the cleaning process again and do not want you to disturb. Once you get the dpf light on you need to drive your car at 80kmph or higher for 20-40mins preferably nonstop. Once the dpf is cleaned the light will turn off. You will burn extra fuel while the cleaning process is on and see some white smoke from the exhaust..this is normal.. how ever i do not know why you get the check engine light blinking.. maybe that's specific to your car model. So better to refer the user manual. Hope you got your answer..feel free to contact me if you have any more questions.

[The Don]

I think the DPF cleaning process is required if you spend a lot of time driving in city traffic conditions where the car idles for long periods and the average speed is low. You can avoid it if you take the car for a drive at brisk pace once in a while. People who drive regularly on motorways rarely need to initiate a separate DPF clearing process.

That said and as Fixit alludes to, the high sulfurous content of our diesel probably makes matters worse.

I think Kia must be reacting to feedback it has gained from the first shipments of these engines to SL.

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Don

[taba123]

  On 11/2/2012 at 10:17 AM, Fixzit said:

It would be easy if you can let me know what is the model of your car. Generally when you get the dpf light on that means either there is a block or the ecu assumes your dpf could be blocked so it try to initiate the cleaning process again and do not want you to disturb. Once you get the dpf light on you need to drive your car at 80kmph or higher for 20-40mins preferably nonstop. Once the dpf is cleaned the light will turn off. You will burn extra fuel while the cleaning process is on and see some white smoke from the exhaust..this is normal.. how ever i do not know why you get the check engine light blinking.. maybe that's specific to your car model. So better to refer the user manual. Hope you got your answer..feel free to contact me if you have any more questions.

it z a toyota hiace kdh201

[taba123]

  On 11/2/2012 at 10:17 AM, Fixzit said:

It would be easy if you can let me know what is the model of your car. Generally when you get the dpf light on that means either there is a block or the ecu assumes your dpf could be blocked so it try to initiate the cleaning process again and do not want you to disturb. Once you get the dpf light on you need to drive your car at 80kmph or higher for 20-40mins preferably nonstop. Once the dpf is cleaned the light will turn off. You will burn extra fuel while the cleaning process is on and see some white smoke from the exhaust..this is normal.. how ever i do not know why you get the check engine light blinking.. maybe that's specific to your car model. So better to refer the user manual. Hope you got your answer..feel free to contact me if you have any more questions.

  On 11/3/2012 at 6:35 PM, taba123 said:

it z a toyota hiace kdh201

thanks for the advice tht you have provided me. fixit if u can pls message me the address of the place where i can remove the dpf.

[taba123]

  On 11/2/2012 at 11:17 AM, The Don said:

I think the DPF cleaning process is required if you spend a lot of time driving in city traffic conditions where the car idles for long periods and the average speed is low. You can avoid it if you take the car for a drive at brisk pace once in a while. People who drive regularly on motorways rarely need to initiate a separate DPF clearing process.

That said and as Fixit alludes to, the high sulfurous content of our diesel probably makes matters worse.

I think Kia must be reacting to feedback it has gained from the first shipments of these engines to SL.

thanks for the info broda...

[Fixzit]

I took the Dpf off myself using a specially designed dpf delete pipe for my specific model. I'll check whether the same is available for yours. Let me know the YOM. Basically if you have a diesel injector built-in to your dpf it's not easy to take it off without causing any problems. If you do find someone to take off your dpf.. make sure he knows what's he's doing otherwise your car will keep going on to limp mode.. that's not good for the engine. As you said you get a dpf regen every week or so, its a good idea to use a good quality engine oil and do regular oil changes as regen cycles contaminate your engine oil..

[Sylvi]

Members,

I am not an a expert on Diesel PDF system My subject is Electrical unit maintenance for more than 40 years of my life, after modern automobiles arrived to this country. I deviated from the subject which I knew very well having a large customer base. I thought to my self to try out a new automobile maintenance industry, because there was no other person engaged on that subject So I started after proper training that maintenance with modern apparatus.

There are plenty of problems in our country because the Diesel oil what is available in our country is not suitable for modern vehicles. As for my knowledge all manufactured new diesel Vehicles for domestic market in manufacturing countries this unit the manufactures is liable to fix. For Diesel vehicles to be sold in their country, with the DPF system, We Sri lankans import those used vehicles and when our country motorists starts using them within no time the dash board waning light comes to inform the system needs attention.

Below I managed to get a brief explanation from the web.

A diesel particulate filter (or DPF) is a device designed to remove diesel particulate matter or soot from the exhaust gas of a diesel engine. Wall-flow diesel particulate filters usually remove 85% or more of the soot, and under certain conditions can attain soot removal efficiencies of close to 100%. Some filters are single-use, intended for disposal and replacement once full of accumulated ash. Others are designed to burn off the accumulated particulate either passively through the use of a catalyst or by active means such as a fuel burner which heats the filter to soot combustion temperatures; engine programming to run when the filter is full in a manner that elevates exhaust temperature or produces high amounts of NO_x to oxidize the accumulated ash, or through other methods. This is known as "filter regeneration". Cleaning is also required as part of periodic maintenance, and it must be done carefully to avoid damaging the filter. Failure of fuel injectors or turbochargers resulting in contamination of the filter with raw diesel or engine oil can also necessitate cleaning.^[1] The regeneration process occurs at road speeds higher than can generally be attained on city streets; vehicles driven exclusively at low speeds in urban traffic can require periodic trips at higher speeds to clean out the DPF.^[2] If the driver ignores the warning light and waits too long to operate the vehicle above 40 miles per hour (64 km/h), the DPF may not regenerate properly, and continued operation past that point may spoil the DPF completely so it must be replaced.^[3]

I personally know one reputed dealer took back ( He was compelled to keep his reputation as automobile dealer, if not the person wanted to take up the matter with consumer protection authority) a registered vehicle and gave another vehicle to that user which DPF system not fitted because due to cleaning failed. Thrice that vehicle was brought back on a car carrier for attention in Colombo.

The dealer tried level best to do it up with various methods by trying out two technicians who do this DPF cleaning by Caustic soda dip method.

One chap remove the unit and clean internal manually but the last only for thousand or two thousand Kilometers.

There is one person who do this system elimination, by electronic control unit imported by him. Which is used in another country they do not have strict environment protection laws like our country.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[Sylvi]

  On 11/3/2012 at 10:01 PM, Fixzit said:

I took the Dpf off myself using a specially designed dpf delete pipe for my specific model. I'll check whether the same is available for yours. Let me know the YOM. Basically if you have a diesel injector built-in to your dpf it's not easy to take it off without causing any problems. If you do find someone to take off your dpf.. make sure he knows what's he's doing otherwise your car will keep going on to limp mode.. that's not good for the engine. As you said you get a dpf regen every week or so, its a good idea to use a good quality engine oil and do regular oil changes as regen cycles contaminate your engine oil..

'Fixzit',

Can you share your new design of DPF pipe. (I took the Dpf off myself using a specially designed dpf delete pipe) is it imported or you made in S L for the specifications of the designer of that DPF delete pipe. you can Email me also, novus@slt.lk

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[Fixzit]

  On 11/4/2012 at 12:48 AM, Sylvi said:

'Fixzit',

Can you share your new design of DPF pipe. (I took the Dpf off myself using a specially designed dpf delete pipe) is it imported or you made in S L for the specifications of the designer of that DPF delete pipe. you can Email me also, novus@slt.lk

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Sylvi, i bought that from a engineer who designed it after a fair bit of research. Actually delete pipe is not that complicated at all.. its just a normal pipe connecting to the dump pipe and the exhaust bypassing the dpf.. but it's the location of sensors which matters. Specially the O2 sensor which is located in a way that it gets the exact reading as the dpf is clean.. I have ordered another one for my Navara which I'll get in few days. I'll send you some pics. I've done the dpf delete on my Pathfinder which is the same as Navara and it's working fine. I'll show you the actual pipe once i come down to SL in Dec if you are interested.. I'm planning on doing a post regarding dpfs and how they work on this forum once i get a bit of free time..

[Fixzit]

http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/14491-dpf-diesel-particulate-filters-explained/#entry225160