Ran Engine Without Engine Oil..... Oooops.. Need Help!

Wheel · October 18, 2010

Ya, now dont jump to say im an idiot, coz i've realized it already,,,:-)

BTW, its not literally WITHOUT engine oil, but there was a bit...

What happened was, i did not check the oil level for around two three months time coz i had the idea that oil pressure bulb should lit and let me know when i should add oil. But however i just accidentally checked it. I was shocked to see no oil at all on the dipstick after an overnight parking. Added 1 liter to come to the Low level of (still little below actually) dipstick.

Now I need help on following questions raised with this incident..

1. Isn't the oil indicator supposed to show low oil levels (which causes oil pressure drops)or does this means still the engine had enough oil to build up the required oil pressure?

2. I dont see any oil leakage marks at my parking grounds. What is the possible cause for this oil loss? (I had a tune up after the oil change, is it the reason?)

3. Most importantly, what are the checks I should do now to verify what's gone wrong and what are the remedial measures should I do (flush?) ?

thanx in advance.

Ripper · October 18, 2010

oil pressure bulb is supposed to light up when the pressure gets low but an electrical or related issue can always cause for it to not light up. it can even be a burnt out indicator bulb so it's best NEVER to depend solely on that. You should check your oil level at least once a week if not even more frequently.

A regular tuneup wont make you loose oil at all. unless of course somebody drained the oil and didn't fill it up properly. or changed the oil filter and didn't screw it on properly making it leak oil etc

oil loss IMHO happens only two ways...one is with some sort of a leak in the system and the second being the engine burning oil with combustion.

If it's the former you should see oil leaks visible on the garage floor or on the engine and the bottom parts of the car itself.

If it's the latter...you should see bluish smoke when the motor is running... either way it's relatively easy to spot the problem.

Engine flushing wont achieve much in your situ. Personally i don't believe in flushing unless of course you're changing oil types or have had very badly degraded oil in the motor.

I would say...first see why you have lost oil. is it a leak or is the engine burning oil. after that's sorted you can check why the oil light didn't come on.

CARBON · October 18, 2010

When u turn the ignition on do you see the oil light come on and then does it switch off ? If so the indicator is ok.

Anyway there is still some amount of oil eventhough the dip stick shows as empty.

After u drive the car while the engine is running just lift the engine oil dip stick and see if smoke comes out, if so it may be under compression and these is a chance that oil too is getting in to the combustion chamber through worn out piston rings. Or u could do a compression check.

Btw whats the car ?

Wheel · October 19, 2010

On 10/18/2010 at 1:58 PM, CARBON said:

When u turn the ignition on do you see the oil light come on and then does it switch off ? If so the indicator is ok.

Anyway there is still some amount of oil eventhough the dip stick shows as empty.

After u drive the car while the engine is running just lift the engine oil dip stick and see if smoke comes out, if so it may be under compression and these is a chance that oil too is getting in to the combustion chamber through worn out piston rings. Or u could do a compression check.

Btw whats the car ?

It's N16. Ya, my oil light works fine. I just had a short run to see what's going on after adding oil to normal level on dipstick. It's normal. Everything seems fine. however i have added 2 liters of oil to come to normal. Now even the oil seems to be ok with colour and thickness.

I'll try the smoke thing and let you know. However i didnt notice any visible smoke out of my exhaust which is an indication of no oil leak to combustion i believe. I suspect some oil has lost during the cleanup process of tune-up i've done. Is it possible?

BTW, i thought i should try a dipstick from another N16. Who knows, this might not the correct stick at all.

blkr6 · October 20, 2010

if you don't see any leaks its got to be burning. time to switch to ticker oil. you didn't ran empty so you didn't do any serious damage.

jaga · October 20, 2010

On 10/19/2010 at 3:39 AM, Wheel said:

It's N16. Ya, my oil light works fine. I just had a short run to see what's going on after adding oil to normal level on dipstick. It's normal. Everything seems fine. however i have added 2 liters of oil to come to normal. Now even the oil seems to be ok with colour and thickness.

I'll try the smoke thing and let you know. However i didnt notice any visible smoke out of my exhaust which is an indication of no oil leak to combustion i believe. I suspect some oil has lost during the cleanup process of tune-up i've done. Is it possible?

BTW, i thought i should try a dipstick from another N16. Who knows, this might not the correct stick at all.

You have filled 2 lt to get the required level means still sump had aprox 1.5 lt of oilbefore filling. That amount is fair enough to run the engine with out any harm. That is why oil bulb has not turned on. But you better check how oil has gone down so much from the sump.Some time the service person has not put the adequate amount of oil at the time of service.

Rgds,

SeanD · October 20, 2010

By the time the oil pressure bulb lights, it's already too late - I once found this out the hard way. You're not supposed to drive to the nearest petrol shed that is 10km away after the light comes on, you will not have much of an engine at that time. When the light comes on you're supposed to stop the car immediately. Bottom line is, don't rely on that lamp to tell you when it's time to fill up, it only tells you when it's time to stop running.

Ripper · October 20, 2010

using thicker oil as someone suggested is a big no no!

if you have an oil burning issues it's best to address that specific problem rather than trying to go around it an make things worse in the long run.

Thicker oil will not travel fast enough to top end of the motor on startup due it's heavier viscosity.

Startup friction already is one of the biggest reasons for engine wear out and you wouldn't want to make things worse.

and on the oil light...according to a toyota workshop manual i had sometime back... The actual low oil pressure point where it's very dangerous for the motor is even below the point the light comes on. meaning you can drive a bit with the light on.

But ideally it should never come to that point. Oil level checks are supposed to be done every other day or so including other regular checks like brake fluid, air pressure, coolant levels etc... When you get into the habit of doing these it kinda comes naturally...

Wheel · October 20, 2010

Thanx for advices guys.

I'll monitor the oil level now continuesly and if it drops again, i'll immediately look in to the matter.

BTW, i'm using 15W-40 for my N16. Is it the best for a car engine or should i go for a thicker or thinner oil than this? What is the effect of oil viscosity on an engine's performance?

Sumiya · October 20, 2010

On 10/20/2010 at 4:27 AM, Wheel said:

Thanx for advices guys.

I'll monitor the oil level now continuesly and if it drops again, i'll immediately look in to the matter.

BTW, i'm using 15W-40 for my N16. Is it the best for a car engine or should i go for a thicker or thinner oil than this? What is the effect of oil viscosity on an engine's performance?

Hi Wheel

First of all you have to find how your oil drops, if it is burning having thicker oil will bit reduce the burning ratio , still it is not advisable, you have to repair your engine , there are so many engine oils are there.

you may go for any renown brand ..

You can't rely on electrical stuff in 100%, , so make sure as a daily routine you check fluid levels etc.. if you get used to it you may not forget it any day .

thanks

regards

sumith

Edited October 20, 2010 by Sumiya

shanX · October 20, 2010

On 10/20/2010 at 3:17 AM, SeanD said:

By the time the oil pressure bulb lights, it's already too late - I once found this out the hard way. You're not supposed to drive to the nearest petrol shed that is 10km away after the light comes on, you will not have much of an engine at that time. When the light comes on you're supposed to stop the car immediately. Bottom line is, don't rely on that lamp to tell you when it's time to fill up, it only tells you when it's time to stop running.

This! As i have heard, oil light comes on when the game is almost over.

shanX · October 20, 2010

double post

Edited October 20, 2010 by shanX

CARBON · October 20, 2010

BTW, i'm using 15W-40 for my N16. Is it the best for a car engine or should i go for a thicker or thinner oil than this? What is the effect of oil viscosity on an engine's performance?

A thinner oil ( low visocity )will give you better engine performance than a thicker ( high viscosity) oil.

Good lubrication will avoid friction so will improve your performance.... ehem... of ur pistons that is

blkr6 · October 20, 2010

On 10/20/2010 at 3:45 AM, Ripper said:

using thicker oil as someone suggested is a big no no!

if you have an oil burning issues it's best to address that specific problem rather than trying to go around it an make things worse in the long run.

Thicker oil will not travel fast enough to top end of the motor on startup due it's heavier viscosity.

Startup friction already is one of the biggest reasons for engine wear out and you wouldn't want to make things worse.

and on the oil light...according to a toyota workshop manual i had sometime back... The actual low oil pressure point where it's very dangerous for the motor is even below the point the light comes on. meaning you can drive a bit with the light on.

But ideally it should never come to that point. Oil level checks are supposed to be done every other day or so including other regular checks like brake fluid, air pressure, coolant levels etc... When you get into the habit of doing these it kinda comes naturally...

if its burning due to a worn out engine the best solution is thicker oil (or a overhaul which cost money). you are true about start-up friction but it used to be problem back in the day when we had single-viscosity oils. now a days we have multi-viscosity oil which almost eliminates start up oil starvation. thicker oil will increase the compression, restores power, reduce engine blow by, and reduce oil consumption in a worn-out engine. you have to let me know actual facts behind "big no no". today oil have minimal zink content its mainly due to catalytic converters on today cars. oil with the highest zink has the best protection against wear. with advancement in oil today have less wear, emissions, higher fuel econ.....etc

blkr6 · October 20, 2010

On 10/20/2010 at 4:27 AM, Wheel said:

Thanx for advices guys.

I'll monitor the oil level now continuesly and if it drops again, i'll immediately look in to the matter.

BTW, i'm using 15W-40 for my N16. Is it the best for a car engine or should i go for a thicker or thinner oil than this? What is the effect of oil viscosity on an engine's performance?

you are already running thicker oil i think its the best viscosity right now. you can switch to thick but you risk blowing out seals with the increase in pressure.

Ripper · October 20, 2010

On 10/20/2010 at 1:25 PM, blkr6 said:

if its burning due to a worn out engine the best solution is thicker oil (or a overhaul which cost money). you are true about start-up friction but it used to be problem back in the day when we had single-viscosity oils. now a days we have multi-viscosity oil which almost eliminates start up oil starvation. thicker oil will increase the compression, restores power, reduce engine blow by, and reduce oil consumption in a worn-out engine. you have to let me know actual facts behind "big no no". today oil have minimal zink content its mainly due to catalytic converters on today cars. oil with the highest zink has the best protection against wear. with advancement in oil today have less wear, emissions, higher fuel econ.....etc

there is a reason why the original manufacturer recommends a certain viscosity for a particular motor.

If the motor is burning oil...using thicker oil is not the solution...it's just a temporary plaster.

And to use thicker oil...how do you judge how much exactly the engine has worn out to use a certain viscous oil?

Do you just just guess and say...ah ok...lets use 80w or 130w

blkr6 · October 21, 2010

On 10/20/2010 at 4:10 PM, Ripper said:

there is a reason why the original manufacturer recommends a certain viscosity for a particular motor.

If the motor is burning oil...using thicker oil is not the solution...it's just a temporary plaster.

And to use thicker oil...how do you judge how much exactly the engine has worn out to use a certain viscous oil?

Do you just just guess and say...ah ok...lets use 80w or 130w

original manufacture comes up with certain viscosity to meet factory specs, meet emission standards, fuel economy etc... but when the engine gets old rings, valves and pretty much every metal part is worn out. only other thing that could cause a such a oil burn is valve stem seals which can be noticeable with a cloud of smoke after morning start ups. thicker oil is always a temporary solution, aka the ideal solution because every time you start burning oil you must be crazy to do an overhaul your engine. the judgment comes with a type of engine, how old is the engine, experience and knowledge of oils/engine. if you are brain dead use 80w or 130w.

PS my Chinese scooter (80k kms redline monster) is the living proof of any engine wear/ oils/ solutions.....

Ripper · October 21, 2010

On 10/21/2010 at 1:13 AM, blkr6 said:

original manufacture comes up with certain viscosity to meet factory specs, meet emission standards, fuel economy etc... but when the engine gets old rings, valves and pretty much every metal part is worn out. only other thing that could cause a such a oil burn is valve stem seals which can be noticeable with a cloud of smoke after morning start ups. thicker oil is always a temporary solution, aka the ideal solution because every time you start burning oil you must be crazy to do an overhaul your engine. the judgment comes with a type of engine, how old is the engine, experience and knowledge of oils/engine. if you are brain dead use 80w or 130w.

PS my Chinese scooter (80k kms redline monster) is the living proof of any engine wear/ oils/ solutions.....

and often does an engine start burning oil for one to be crazy to do an overhaul?

valve stem seals are just a top end job which take little time and relatively little money to fix.

To go around a simple issue like that and adding thicker oil is rather stupid imho... because there is no way to properly judge the amount of wear to decide on a particular weight of oil. Also just by trying to get thicker oil to plug gaps in an area like the stem seal you're also making the piston work harder... The thicker oil doesn't only go to the stem seals...it circulates all over and make everything run harder. Including things like the oil pump.

but as always...we can agree to disagree!