Radiator Coolant

[mensoft]

Hi guys ,

I saw in a tv program they were telling its not that good to put coolant to the older car with was running with water form a long time.

As they said if you gona use coolant first you need to flush the radiator and then use the coolant .

But then there will be a issue with radiator block. It will be happen when use water there will be some mud kind of layer getting stick to the radiator and the hose . they said generally we use to call it cholesterol . so better to use water itself who ever use water 4 there vehicles .

Can some expert guy explain it more ? coz I also recently add some coolant to my radiator .

Do i need to go back to the water again ?

[jdnet]

Don't believe everything you see and hear on TV. Specially the news networks.

[The Don]

  On 7/19/2012 at 4:20 AM, mensoft said:

Hi guys ,

I saw in a tv program they were telling its not that good to put coolant to the older car with was running with water form a long time.

As they said if you gona use coolant first you need to flush the radiator and then use the coolant .

But then there will be a issue with radiator block. It will be happen when use water there will be some mud kind of layer getting stick to the radiator and the hose . they said generally we use to call it cholesterol . so better to use water itself who ever use water 4 there vehicles .

Can some expert guy explain it more ? coz I also recently add some coolant to my radiator .

Do i need to go back to the water again ?

To be honest it is a load of bull. The bit about flush kicking out old sludge is correct, and can even cause leaks by dissolving some of the oxide layer built up over years. But changing over from water to coolant should not cause issues, but I would flush the system with clean water a couple of times before filling it with coolant just to get rid of some of the free flowing muck and oxide sludge.

[mensoft]

  On 7/19/2012 at 8:07 AM, The Don said:

To be honest it is a load of bull. The bit about flush kicking out old sludge is correct, and can even cause leaks by dissolving some of the oxide layer built up over years. But changing over from water to coolant should not cause issues, but I would flush the system with clean water a couple of times before filling it with coolant just to get rid of some of the free flowing muck and oxide sludge.

and other this is im warry abot the coolant boiling tempreture is higher than the water .

so normaly the radiatro water boil @ 140 C and coolant need more temprature to boil . that meen engine is geteen heat more than 140 C . so it can damage engine seriusly . is it correct ?

im wandering if its correct why people use coolant ?

[The Don]

  On 7/19/2012 at 8:38 AM, mensoft said:

and other this is im warry abot the coolant boiling tempreture is higher than the water .

so normaly the radiatro water boil @ 140 C and coolant need more temprature to boil . that meen engine is geteen heat more than 140 C . so it can damage engine seriusly . is it correct ?

im wandering if its correct why people use coolant ?

No the engine heat is regulated by a combination of radiator, radiator fan and thermostatic valve. They will ensure the engine temperature is maintained at an optimum safe level . Coolant may or may not make this process more efficient but to be honest the point you make is irrelevant.

[mensoft]

  On 7/19/2012 at 9:00 AM, The Don said:

No the engine heat is regulated by a combination of radiator, radiator fan and thermostatic valve. They will ensure the engine temperature is maintained at an optimum safe level . Coolant may or may not make this process more efficient but to be honest the point you make is irrelevant.

hay its not im pointing . its what i herd on the program .

im warry abt my engine coz i also change it to coolant .

[The Don]

  On 7/19/2012 at 9:48 AM, mensoft said:

hay its not im pointing . its what i herd on the program .

im warry abt my engine coz i also change it to coolant .

There is nothing to worry about. If you see coolant discolouring take your radiator to a good radiator shop and get it cleaned manually. I think you are worrying about things for no reason.

[himantha2005]

There are several types of coolent as far as I know.

All these have anti rust properties and also extends the boiling and freezing point of water.

Some of these have ANTIFREEZE properties which is absolutely useless in Sri Lanka,as antifreeze chemical prevents the water from freezing during winter.(GREAT FOR WINTER COUNTRIES-actually most of the vehicle manufacturing countries have a winter like Japan) But there is no harm in having it in tropical countries like ours.

Most of our vehicles use IAT antifreeze which is green in colour.It needs flushing every 2 years.

OAT antifreeze has many colours including DARK green, orange ,pink. This needs flushing every 5 years and is BETTER than the light green type(IAT).

HOAT is the third type. It comes in orange and yellow colours. Flushing interval is 5 years.

The need for flushing arises as the chemical properties of the liquid wears out in several years so that corrosion begins.

Mixing in between antifreeze types will reduce its lifespan especially when light green IAT is mixed with others.

My vehicle which is a AXIO came with pink OAT which is Toyota s antifreeze type/needs replacement every 5 years only.

Advice for you is to use an coolent always.In the correct dilution too.

[Mean Green z28]

  On 7/19/2012 at 8:38 AM, mensoft said:

and other this is im warry abot the coolant boiling tempreture is higher than the water .

so normaly the radiatro water boil @ 140 C and coolant need more temprature to boil . that meen engine is geteen heat more than 140 C . so it can damage engine seriusly . is it correct ?

im wandering if its correct why people use coolant ?

your physics are correct, but the result of it is completely wrong. Yes, coolant makes it boil at a higher temperature and that is a GOOD thing. Why? Because it can still keep circulating through your system at a higher temp and keep working to get that heat out when the plain water has already turned into steam. Ofcouse this would only come in to play should you have a different issue causing higher temps like a bad thermostat.

This is a benefit in addition to coolant's anti-corrosive and heat transfer properties

Edited July 20, 2012 by Mean Green z28

[Sylvi]

Members,

I had a problem not using coolant in my vehicle I used to top up with the tube well water which had some impurities,

The entire Radiator was blocked and had to change the gasket due to boiling.

I had to remove the radiator and clean by removing the top tank manually.

There after I all ways use coolant with correct dilution with distilled water. Tap water also can be diluted.

AS Mean Green z28, on his post says (This is a benefit in addition to coolant's anti-corrosive and heat transfer properties).

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[mensoft]

  On 7/19/2012 at 11:59 PM, Mean Green z28 said:

your physics are correct, but the result of it is completely wrong. Yes, coolant makes it boil at a higher temperature and that is a GOOD thing. Why? Because it can still keep circulating through your system at a higher temp and keep working to get that heat out when the plain water has already turned into steam. Ofcouse this would only come in to play should you have a different issue causing higher temps like a bad thermostat.

This is a benefit in addition to coolant's anti-corrosive and heat transfer properties

Thanks For the Info

[chan5]

didn't want to pop UP a new thread, can somebody please explain this,

if i need to shift from water to 50-50 diluted coolent,in an old car (1997).

1- just draining by the pin of the radiator bottom is enough ? Or is their any other way of completely remove the remaining old water,

2-there are some corrosion particles visible on water inside radiator,

is it healthy to replace with coolent because i heard this can cause some leaks.?

3-radiator is working fine , NO overheating at full length of E01 up and down once a week at 90-95 kmph steady speed.so is this gonna be a silly over maintenance ?

4 - radiator fan starts working just after ignition key on (not engine started yet). One electrician told it's Ok (i don't feel believe him), and i think at some point of an electrics related repair they've given a direct line to radiator fan.what should i do here? (again the cooling indicator works fine and never pass the midpoint).

Thanks

[The Don]

  On 10/15/2012 at 10:17 AM, chan5 said:

didn't want to pop UP a new thread, can somebody please explain this,

if i need to shift from water to 50-50 diluted coolent,in an old car (1997).

1- just draining by the pin of the radiator bottom is enough ? Or is their any other way of completely remove the remaining old water,

2-there are some corrosion particles visible on water inside radiator,

is it healthy to replace with coolent because i heard this can cause some leaks.?

3-radiator is working fine , NO overheating at full length of E01 up and down once a week at 90-95 kmph steady speed.so is this gonna be a silly over maintenance ?

4 - radiator fan starts working just after ignition key on (not engine started yet). One electrician told it's Ok (i don't feel believe him), and i think at some point of an electrics related repair they've given a direct line to radiator fan.what should i do here? (again the cooling indicator works fine and never pass the midpoint).

Thanks

1. To switch to coolant, you should drain all the existing water from the system by removing the drain plug in the radiator. This wont remove all the coolant, so what you need to do is to fill the radiator up with clean water again and start the engine, and bring it up to the operating temperature. Then drain the water again. You need to do this a couple of times until the the water coming out of the radiator is clear as the water going in. This is to ensure that all the old coolant is drained out but also that some of the oxide sludge from the radiator is washed out as well. Then I will repeat the same process, but instead of adding clean water, I will add the coolant and repeat the flushing until all you have in the cooling system is the coolant.

Now there are faster ways of doing this (by flushing while the engine is running) but the above is the safest if you are novice.

2. Coolant does not cause leaks as it should not react with the metal or the metal oxide. Chemical flushes can sometimes cause leaks (hence why we are flushing with clean water above rather than a chemical flush).

3. Well it will prolong the life of the radiator and slow down the rate of oxidation.

4. It sounds like your radiator fan is working on fail safe mode, so either than fan thermostat or the relay is malfunctioning. I would get this fixed, because the engine has an optimum operating temperature, and this will prevent the engine from reaching this temperature quickly, if it reaches it at all! This has an effect on fuel efficiency.

[chan5]

  On 10/15/2012 at 10:35 AM, The Don said:

1. To switch to coolant, you should drain all the existing water from the system by removing the drain plug in the radiator. This wont remove all the coolant, so what you need to do is to fill the radiator up with clean water again and start the engine, and bring it up to the operating temperature. Then drain the water again. You need to do this a couple of times until the the water coming out of the radiator is clear as the water going in. This is to ensure that all the old coolant is drained out but also that some of the oxide sludge from the radiator is washed out as well. Then I will repeat the same process, but instead of adding clean water, I will add the coolant and repeat the flushing until all you have in the cooling system is the coolant.

Now there are faster ways of doing this (by flushing while the engine is running) but the above is the safest if you are novice.

2. Coolant does not cause leaks as it should not react with the metal or the metal oxide. Chemical flushes can sometimes cause leaks (hence why we are flushing with clean water above rather than a chemical flush).

3. Well it will prolong the life of the radiator and slow down the rate of oxidation.

4. It sounds like your radiator fan is working on fail safe mode, so either than fan thermostat or the relay is malfunctioning. I would get this fixed, because the engine has an optimum operating temperature, and this will prevent the engine from reaching this temperature quickly, if it reaches it at all! This has an effect on fuel efficiency.

thank's for the descriptive answer mate ,

just small clarification.

1 - my worry was the premature battery failure, because when starter motor kicking in there are additional loads by these radiator fans.

2 - it takes about 10-15 munites to come to midpoint of heat scale(which i think the optimum ), feels it's little lengthy..?

3 - doesn't the thermostat valve of the radiator prevent the flow of coolent until until engine reach the working temperature.so even if the fan rotates , there's no actual flow through engine.?

4 - found somebody down the timeline has messed up with the wiring system to bypass the thermostat , average electric mechanic fiddle with it for about 3 hours and was cluelss, any recommended place or person ?

Thanks a lot again,

it's feel so comfortable to discuss with a person who knows facts, (yesterday had really bad experience, fed up by trying to understand what mechanic said in his own jargon.)

Edited October 16, 2012 by chan5

[MrCat]

AFIK, the basic set up for a radiator fan (with one temperature switch) is similar to the diagram attached.

If they`ve hard-wired the fan, it`s usually after the failure of the temperature switch/sensor mate. In theory a switch like this could be tested with hot water (and using a multi-meter for connectivity when the ‘on’ temperature has reached), but I’ve never tried this. I would get the circuit checked and then replace the temp switch with a matching unit for your engine.

‘Pala Electricals’ have fixed the radiator fan circuit for me a few years back. They did a good job then.

Edited October 16, 2012 by MrCat

[The Don]

  On 10/16/2012 at 3:02 AM, chan5 said:

thank's for the descriptive answer mate ,

just small clarification.

1 - my worry was the premature battery failure, because when starter motor kicking in there are additional loads by these radiator fans.

2 - it takes about 10-15 munites to come to midpoint of heat scale(which i think the optimum ), feels it's little lengthy..?

3 - doesn't the thermostat valve of the radiator prevent the flow of coolent until until engine reach the working temperature.so even if the fan rotates , there's no actual flow through engine.?

4 - found somebody down the timeline has messed up with the wiring system to bypass the thermostat , average electric mechanic fiddle with it for about 3 hours and was cluelss, any recommended place or person ?

Thanks a lot again,

it's feel so comfortable to discuss with a person who knows facts, (yesterday had really bad experience, fed up by trying to understand what mechanic said in his own jargon.)

1. Premature fan failure couple with loss of fuel efficiency would be the main problems. The battery will probably cope particularly as the car is running when the fan is operating.

2. Well if the fan kicked in later this would be even quicker. Optimum temperature is a little different from vehicle to vehicle and its a little difficult to say what it is without comparing it to another car of your model from the temp meter. Usually its around 1/2 way up.

3. Yes, that is why you have to bring the car up to temperature, drain, fill up, bring the car upto temperature and drain. You can do it a bit faster by using a horse and feeding fresh water into the system while the car is running at temperature which will circulate new coolant through the car, but you need to keep a close eye on the temperature gauge , to prevent overheating.

4. Mr Cat has recommended Pala auto electrical which I've heard is a good place. In my car a failed relay had led to this problem and I repaired it myself as all the mechanics, electricians were scratching their heads and some even thought it was great that the fan was always running.

[mensoft]

  On 10/15/2012 at 10:17 AM, chan5 said:

didn't want to pop UP a new thread, can somebody please explain this,

4 - radiator fan starts working just after ignition key on (not engine started yet). One electrician told it's Ok (i don't feel believe him), and i think at some point of an electrics related repair they've given a direct line to radiator fan.what should i do here? (again the cooling indicator works fine and never pass the midpoint).

Thanks

I had a same kind of issue in my mmc colt car wich i had early .

previous owner have done somthing funny but its work fine . that is aditional switch have fix to the fan to on it after the engine start. but this no need all the time if you have good batary power to start. sometimes its difical to start so i off the fan and start then again on the fan .

but its not good at all. meny times i have got stop midle of the road becz i have forgot to on the fan and engine have got overheat . once replase the gasket too then i got fixed it by a electrecian . but then its too late . had to replacse the gasket .

so you beter get this fix soon.

Edited October 16, 2012 by mensoft

[kushan]

  On 10/16/2012 at 7:07 AM, MrCat said:

AFIK, the basic set up for a radiator fan (with one temperature switch) is similar to the diagram attached.

If they`ve hard-wired the fan, it`s usually after the failure of the temperature switch/sensor mate. In theory a switch like this could be tested with hot water (and using a multi-meter for connectivity when the ‘on’ temperature has reached), but I’ve never tried this. I would get the circuit checked and then replace the temp switch with a matching unit for your engine.

‘Pala Electricals’ have fixed the radiator fan circuit for me a few years back. They did a good job then.

  On 10/16/2012 at 9:15 AM, The Don said:

1. Premature fan failure couple with loss of fuel efficiency would be the main problems. The battery will probably cope particularly as the car is running when the fan is operating.

2. Well if the fan kicked in later this would be even quicker. Optimum temperature is a little different from vehicle to vehicle and its a little difficult to say what it is without comparing it to another car of your model from the temp meter. Usually its around 1/2 way up.

3. Yes, that is why you have to bring the car up to temperature, drain, fill up, bring the car upto temperature and drain. You can do it a bit faster by using a horse and feeding fresh water into the system while the car is running at temperature which will circulate new coolant through the car, but you need to keep a close eye on the temperature gauge , to prevent overheating.

4. Mr Cat has recommended Pala auto electrical which I've heard is a good place. In my car a failed relay had led to this problem and I repaired it myself as all the mechanics, electricians were scratching their heads and some even thought it was great that the fan was always running.

Yeah, Pala auto electrical is good, Mr Saranapala is a well experienced guy at electrical things who can tell the problem exactly according to the symptom. But costly. and keep in mind to go to them only at electrical problems, thats where their expertise lies, but not on the mechanical side.

[chan5]

  On 10/16/2012 at 7:07 AM, MrCat said:

AFIK, the basic set up for a radiator fan (with one temperature switch) is similar to the diagram attached.

If they`ve hard-wired the fan, it`s usually after the failure of the temperature switch/sensor mate. In theory a switch like this could be tested with hot water (and using a multi-meter for connectivity when the ‘on’ temperature has reached), but I’ve never tried this. I would get the circuit checked and then replace the temp switch with a matching unit for your engine.

‘Pala Electricals’ have fixed the radiator fan circuit for me a few years back. They did a good job then.

thanks mate , actually they have hardwired the system for no reason, found that temperature sensor is working fine?. removed the small u shape pin that somebody has fixed into a plug to bypass the sensor.working fine now, no ALWAYS ON fans,

  On 10/16/2012 at 9:15 AM, The Don said:

1. Premature fan failure couple with loss of fuel efficiency would be the main problems. The battery will probably cope particularly as the car is running when the fan is operating.

2. Well if the fan kicked in later this would be even quicker. Optimum temperature is a little different from vehicle to vehicle and its a little difficult to say what it is without comparing it to another car of your model from the temp meter. Usually its around 1/2 way up.

3. Yes, that is why you have to bring the car up to temperature, drain, fill up, bring the car upto temperature and drain. You can do it a bit faster by using a horse and feeding fresh water into the system while the car is running at temperature which will circulate new coolant through the car, but you need to keep a close eye on the temperature gauge , to prevent overheating.

4. Mr Cat has recommended Pala auto electrical which I've heard is a good place. In my car a failed relay had led to this problem and I repaired it myself as all the mechanics, electricians were scratching their heads and some even thought it was great that the fan was always running.

thanks mate, it was a simple fix .special thanks for explaining the proper science which is almost rare in so called mechanics,

[prvnrox]

guys i got a dual core condenser fixed recently.the condenser start from one corner of the front panel and goes in between the radiator and the front panel to the other corner.but since the original condenser was small it had only one fan fixed.so the AC guys did a modification which makes the radiator fan works with the condenser fan.so basically the radiator fan works almost all the time.now as u all have said here the radiator fan working full time is not a good thing but when it comes to the condenser cooling i dont have any other option too.please advice! thanx

[The Don]

  On 10/19/2012 at 5:08 PM, prvnrox said:

guys i got a dual core condenser fixed recently.the condenser start from one corner of the front panel and goes in between the radiator and the front panel to the other corner.but since the original condenser was small it had only one fan fixed.so the AC guys did a modification which makes the radiator fan works with the condenser fan.so basically the radiator fan works almost all the time.now as u all have said here the radiator fan working full time is not a good thing but when it comes to the condenser cooling i dont have any other option too.please advice! thanx

Personally I would have had it going as before, so the condenser fan starts up when the AC is switched on but the radiator fan only starts up when the engine is hot. But in this situation the radiator fan will kick in pretty quick because thanks to the condenser the airflow to the radiator is now obstructed.

While its not ideal, I don't think your setup will create too many problems.............