Engine Stall When Rev Or Idle

LancerL · January 10, 2013

Hi friends, another problem!!! My 1983 Lancer (Orion engine) giving some issue, it was perfectly alright after last tune up on couple of months back and giving water drops also on after start. But last Monday evening when I start it and reverse from my garage to garden, it got stalled.

I tried many times to start and keep it on idle or to rev at least up to 3000RPM. In idle it will stay very solid only for 4-5 Sec and dies. If I rev the engine it will go up around 1500RPM and immediately dies.

I cannot figure out whither this is due to an electrical issue or an air/fuel (Carb issue).

Please advice me with your experience.

Thanks in advance.

LancerL

Rumesh88 · January 10, 2013

Can be one or more of many things but a vacuum leak seems to be the most likely cause. Rule out this possibility first. If you rev the engine to around 2000 rpm can you keep it running or does it stall even then or does it stall only when on idle? Remove the plugs to see if one or more of them have carbonized. If the plugs are OK and if you can keep it running at around 2000 rpm then try cleaning your carb with a carb cleaner and see if the idle speed stabilize itself.

LancerL · January 11, 2013

On 1/10/2013 at 12:20 PM, Rumesh88 said:
Can be one or more of many things but a vacuum leak seems to be the most likely cause. Rule out this possibility first. If you rev the engine to around 2000 rpm can you keep it running or does it stall even then or does it stall only when on idle? Remove the plugs to see if one or more of them have carbonized. If the plugs are OK and if you can keep it running at around 2000 rpm then try cleaning your carb with a carb cleaner and see if the idle speed stabilize itself.

Dear Ramesh, If I rev yes it will go up to 200RPM and immediatly dies. bu if I kept it on idle, it will stay more time than rev like 4-5Sec and dies.

If it is a vaccume leak, it should dis only on rev to a high RPM only, right?

My other worry is why it stays at idle only for 4-5Sec and die. Also in next second if I start it it will start and does the same.

LancerL · January 12, 2013

Hi Friends,

Waiting for your valuble advices.

Thanks,

LancerL

Rumesh88 · January 13, 2013

On 1/11/2013 at 8:49 AM, LancerL said:
Dear Ramesh, If I rev yes it will go up to 200RPM and immediatly dies. bu if I kept it on idle, it will stay more time than rev like 4-5Sec and dies.
If it is a vaccume leak, it should dis only on rev to a high RPM only, right?

My other worry is why it stays at idle only for 4-5Sec and die. Also in next second if I start it it will start and does the same.

Does this men you are not able to drive the car at all? In this case basically you need to check many things to eliminate all the possibilities one by one.Did you remove and check the plugs? Are they clean with no significant deposits? Is the starting difficult or does it start immediately and then die? What did the mechanic do at the last tune up at least to your knowledge? Did you get the ignition timing checked? How about the plug wires particularly insulation?

Edited January 13, 2013 by Rumesh88

Blitz · January 14, 2013

just get the MAF sensor checkd..

Supra_Natural · January 14, 2013

On 1/14/2013 at 3:29 PM, Blitz said:
just get the MAF sensor checkd..

Brilliant diagnosis there... especially so considering his car doesn't have one....

The Don · January 15, 2013

The question is, when the engine is running on idle for the 4-5 it does, how is the engine. Is is struggling a lot or is it stable and then it dies?

And if you can keep the revs up, can you drive around and how is the power? does it feel like the car is lacking power or is it ok?

If its struggling or lacking power the culprit maybe a vacuum leak (check all lines) as Rumesh has already pointed out or a certain cylinder (or multiples) are not firing as it should. Simplest reasons could be damage to HT leads, issues with distributor, issues with the spark plug itself. All pretty easy to diagnose (take out one wire at a time to try to isolate which cylinder is not firing properly).

Next culprit is obviously the carb.

Does the car fire up straight away in the morning? If not there could be a compression issue with one of the cylinders

LancerL · January 21, 2013

Hi members, I’ve done many testing and change lot of parts like Plug wires/spark plugs also tuned engine many time and couldn’t solve this problem.

My last option was to take it a mechanic hence I couldn’t solve it by my self at this time.

The mechanic has started it couple of times and observed the problem, after that the put that on to a gear and move it to back and forth and started it, this time it could rev up to max RPM and also the idle was stable.

Then he stated that it is a problem with engine timing and ask his subordinate to remove timing cover and observe timing chine and wheels.

He was correct, the wheel which is connecting to crank shaft and driven timing belt to tappets has a small play with the crank shaft and due to that it changes timing. When you engage it into a forward gear and take the car back, it will rotate the crank to other side and reduce the play where it will let engine to start with correct timing.

So the mechanic guy said that to solve this issue he has to take full engine out from the car and turn up side down and takes the crank shaft off from sump side.

He has two options for this.

Send existing Crank shaft and the wheel connecting it to a lath workshop and fill damaged areas from white iron (I don’t know the correct scientific word for this) grind it and rebuild it. This will cost nearly 5,000/- according to him and least more than 10 years.
Buy a recondition Crank shaft and replace it. This will cost nearly 10,000/- according to him.
For other seals and packing it will cost nearly 5,000/-
For this entire job his labor will be 15,000/-

Friends, please advice me on followings.

Going with option 1 is advisable?
Cost for these areas given separately is justifiable? I mean is he trying to make me fool and grab more extra money than standard price for this job?

Please help me on deciding. Your valuable advices are always welcome.

Thanks in advance.

LancerL

Edited January 21, 2013 by LancerL

The Don · January 21, 2013

Well personally the second option ironically might be the most reliable since not all machine shops do a good jobs requiring precision. But you might have difficulties finding a second hand crank shaft in good condition in a car this old. So you might not have an option. Don't get me wrong you might get a perfect result as well but I was commenting on the side of caution.

The part costs might be justifiable though I do recommend you go and buy the parts yourself to ensure they are good quality products, particularly the head gasket. Considering labour charges today 15K doesn't sound too unreasonable. Where is your mechanic based?

LancerL · January 21, 2013

Dear The Don, thanks for the quick response.

Small correction, he will not remove the top of the engine like head and pistons.

He said that it can be done by rotating it up side down and removing from sump side.

That's what I feel it is not reasonable, hence last time one of my other know mechanic has done a full engine overall for me for my previous car for the labour charge of 8,000/-, unfortunately he migrated to a different town with his family, a grate guy that I have ever missed.

Anyway this guy is located close to Panadura.

The Don · January 21, 2013

On 1/21/2013 at 2:25 PM, LancerL said:
Dear The Don, thanks for the quick response.
Small correction, he will not remove the top of the engine like head and pistons.

He said that it can be done by rotating it up side down and removing from sump side.

That's what I feel it is not reasonable, hence last time one of my other know mechanic has done a full engine overall for me for my previous car for the labour charge of 8,000/-, unfortunately he migrated to a different town with his family, a grate guy that I have ever missed.

Anyway this guy is located close to Panadura.

I think you have a point there, but the engine still needs to come out for him to do it. I also wonder why the 5000 charge for packing then cos that's the price of a kit consisting of the head gasket, exhaust manifold and inlet manifold gaskets and the rubber packing for the tappet cover.

I think a second opinion is good. I know a good fair mechanic called Sisira who knows these old cars well but he is based in Attidiya road Nugegoda. Might be a little too far for you.

LancerL · January 22, 2013

On 1/21/2013 at 10:42 PM, The Don said:
I think you have a point there, but the engine still needs to come out for him to do it. I also wonder why the 5000 charge for packing then cos that's the price of a kit consisting of the head gasket, exhaust manifold and inlet manifold gaskets and the rubber packing for the tappet cover.
I think a second opinion is good. I know a good fair mechanic called Sisira who knows these old cars well but he is based in Attidiya road Nugegoda. Might be a little too far for you.

As you said I've decided to buy all the parts by my self, hence I have a confidence that I will use all genuine parts and it will be for low cost.

Thanks for the reference but my car has half away removed and the place you refered will be little far from my place.