7 seater family vehicle

[Nuwanm]

Hi,

I am thinking of buying a family vehicle. My requitement are 

1. Seven seater

2. Budget below 7.5mil(in todays market )

3. Interior space

4. Safety 

5. Lesser maintenance 

6. Petrol vehicle 

I am thinking of nissan nv200 or toyota avanza. 

Can you guys let me know the pros and cons of these two and Please any other suggestions too. 

 

 

[iRage]

Oh dear....you are somewhat stuck between a rock (hurtling down towards you) and...well...a cliff...

The NV200 is a commercial/business vehicle. Not a passenger vehicle. There were passenger vehicles in some markets for use as taxis but I doubt those are found in SL. If you look at the NV200s they will all have different seats, etc...that is because they are cargo vans with seats fitted in the back for passengers. The problem with that is:

1. The ride is uncomfortable. It will be bouncy and noisey.

2. The rear will not have any seatbelts and the body panelling does not have proper energy absorbtion in a crash. So poor on safety.

That leaves you with the Avanza....the Avanza is marginally better in terms of safety than the NV200. Only problem is that interior space in it is quite limited and the rear seats are not the most comfortable for adults (especially on long disance travelling).

Personally, I think mechanically a NV200 wuld be easier to find MECHANICAL parts for as the renault components were shared with some other cars like the TIIDA and Bluebird Sylphy (dof course this is dependant on the NV200 variant you go for). The Avanza has mostly engines developed by Daihatsu which were shared in some other models that are not very common in SL. Both will have similar challenges when looking for body parts.

The ideal would be something like a new Noah/Voxy/Esquire/Serena but those are literally double your budget. Other option would be something like an old Delica SpaceGear/L400but then those are nearly 30 years old.

So.....it is a tough decision for you. Sorry to be not much of a help.

[Nuwanm]

3 hours ago, iRage said:

So.....it is a tough decision for you. Sorry to be not much of a he

This is the exact help i needed. To know the truth. 

It seems there is not much of a choice for me. 

What if I increase my budget. Say around 10 millions. 

I was looking for xpander too. Saw adds with 20000 km / 2019 for 13 million. But it is a difficult choice for me. Spending that much for a vehicle in this climate is not something i am willing to do. 

[Nuwanm]

2 hours ago, chamila kariyawasam said:

There is another option same as Avanza, which is Suzuki Ertiga.

Thank you for the suggestion. I have searched but seems this model is not that popular and available for purchasing in sri lanka

[Gummybr]

Maybe you could look at the Honda Odyssey, Kia Carnival and Hyundai Trajet as well, but I doubt if they can accommodate 7 people and the luggage in one go. All 7 seaters (MPV type) will not have adequate room for luggage and also there could be smaller seats at the back for the two passengers. Other option would be to try out an older SUV type with the rear bench seats, but they will be quite old.

 

Maybe you could look at the Honda Freed as well.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Gummybr
New model

[Nuwanm]

7 minutes ago, Gummybr said:

Other option would be to try out an older SUV type with the rear bench seats, but they will be quite old

True. I was thinking Montero Sport . but rear seats are not good enough for long distance travelling. I wanted a van type .  Further those are diesel and that is a prblem when it comes to the present situation in the country. 

[iRage]

4 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

This is the exact help i needed. To know the truth. 

It seems there is not much of a choice for me. 

What if I increase my budget. Say around 10 millions. 

I was looking for xpander too. Saw adds with 20000 km / 2019 for 13 million. But it is a difficult choice for me. Spending that much for a vehicle in this climate is not something i am willing to do. 

Well...your budget increase is only get you in to something like an old SUV (Pajero Sport, Fortuner, Pajero types). The economical (although weak) petrol cars won't have proper rear seats for long distance travel and those that do have somewhat usable 3rd row seats will be horrendous on fuel.

Out of the alternative suggestions, @Gummybr's suggestion for a Freed seems to be the nicest. There aren't many Odysseys in SL....the rear seats are barely usable and getting in and out is a pain. As for the Freed...it is technically a 6 seater. As for luggage...the reality is even with an Avanza you would not have had much space for luggage and 7 passengers.

 

[Nuwanm]

5 hours ago, Gummybr said:

Maybe you could look at the Honda Freed as well.

yes. This is a good idea.

46 minutes ago, iRage said:

Out of the alternative suggestions, @Gummybr's suggestion for a Freed seems to be the nicest

Yes. 

Although i personaly do not like hybrids at all, it seems this is the only option left for me. 

Six seater is also acceptable for me. Ground clearance would be a problem. But can manage. 

I had no idea of freed when i am starting this thread ,but seems it is a good alternative option.

Thank you and if you have any guidence on this , please let me know. 

[iRage]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:30 PM, Nuwanm said:

Although i personaly do not like hybrids at all

Well...Hybrids are not god's gift to save us from gasoline burning, but then it is an acceptable solution now that we have some (albeit limited) proper support capabilities in SL. However, I do have to warn you about Honda vehicles of this era...the systems in the car are so deeply integrated that even something as small as the 12V battery being slighlty low on juice will make the car light up like a thorana. So make sure that the Hybrid system and battery are properly functioning and mainained along iwth other systems. This includes cooling components for the Hybrid system, etc...

[Nuwanm]

3 hours ago, iRage said:

Hybrid system and battery

Thank you.

Almost all the freed cars available have completed 130,000 kms. Thus i think i should expect repairs as well.

What would be the most costly repair that i have to face. Say if i replace hybrid battery . how much would it cost. do you have any idea.

Thank you for the support 

[iRage]

16 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

Almost all the freed cars available have completed 130,000 kms.

In a Sri Lankan context that probably is normal (probably on the lower end depending on the YoM of the car). Just make sure that the mileage has not been rolled back or something. There is nothing wrong with a car doing 100K+ kms..

Get the car properly inspected by the agents or a place like Car Checks (both if possible). That will give you a good idea as to what needs to be done. Every car can be different. Common, obvious points would be the Hybrid system.

Cost of changing the battery. No idea....some of the other memebers have Hybrids which they have swapped or refurbed batteries in. Hope they can give some indication. But from what I can recall, the cost can be vastly different based on where you source the battery from.  

[Nuwanm]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:50 AM, iRage said:

Get the car properly inspected by the agents or a place like Car Checks (both if possible).

Thank you.

I am thinking of doing the same.but i have no experience with them. . And I am actually not that good at vehicle related stuff.

Do they just give the report. Or do they advicing us on the condition of the vehicle verbally . If the report is some technical documents which only contain condition of the vehicle i may not be able to come to a conclusion . 

 

[iRage]

18 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

Do they just give the report. Or do they advicing us on the condition of the vehicle verbally . If the report is some technical documents which only contain condition of the vehicle i may not be able to come to a conclusion .

They give you a report. Car checks' report has a score...so higher the score the better it is. Both reports will have notes on what was wrong. In the past, my experience has been that the agent's one has more technical depth. Car chekcs does a more comprehensive check though, especially when it comes to things like looking for accident damage, bad repiar work etc... If you talk to car checks they will give you some advice on what is needed and maybe even some hints on where to go to or what to get repair quotes for. The agent can give you a quotation to repair the stuff they found wrong (note that the agents quotes will be higher than wha it would actually cost at a reputable garage).

[Nuwanm]

Hi guys. I am still searching for a freed but most are not in good condition . 

Meanwhile i wanted to know about toyota townace GL 2012-13 model. Is it a commercial vehicle same as nv 200 that we have discussed in this thread earlier ? I mean isnt it designed for passenger transportation . Is it a good choice for me. 2014yom ones are available in 6-7millions

Edited October 20, 2022 by Nuwanm

[tiv]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:27 AM, iRage said:

They give you a report. Car checks' report has a score...so higher the score the better it is. Both reports will have notes on what was wrong. In the past, my experience has been that the agent's one has more technical depth. Car chekcs does a more comprehensive check though, especially when it comes to things like looking for accident damage, bad repiar work etc... If you talk to car checks they will give you some advice on what is needed and maybe even some hints on where to go to or what to get repair quotes for. The agent can give you a quotation to repair the stuff they found wrong (note that the agents quotes will be higher than wha it would actually cost at a reputable garage).

Something interesting I noted, maybe a good topic for another thread.

I'm a big fan of car checks, taken in several cars myself. 

But lately not so much of a crime but more a less a unnoticed negligence has turned up in the used market, 

let me elaborate;

90% of the people I know, colleagues, friends, family, kin whatever have somewhat dropped down a few notches in the quality of care they gave for their car. Be it a Merc, Audi or a Toyota

Given the inflation, tyre prices, oil prices, filter prices,

majority of people are skimping on services, going for cheaper oils, cheaper parts, cheaper fuel so on. Not that this didn't happen before but the odds were fairly less unless you went for a car from the 80s.

Sadly unless something has really gone south, the most technical and elaborate inspection cannot detect such negligence, except of the owner is honest, then again this is Sri Lanka.

This has become very apparent in some of the 1000cc turbo civics of the 2017 era, few vehicles thereafter as well.

As paranoid as it sounds,

In the event I would go to buy a used car, I would prefer to purchase a known vehicle off a known person, in exchange for some guarantee and peace of mind, that it was well taken care of.

Not a remedy but to play safe, stay well clear from car sales to avoid a lemon.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by tiv

[iRage]

20 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

Is it a commercial vehicle same as nv 200 that we have discussed in this thread earlier ?

Yes...the TownAce you are looking at (and TownAces irrespective of generation) are commercial vehicles. The passenger variants were the Noah/Voxy/Master Ace/Surf Ace/etc...

THe issue is the model you are looking at is even worst in terms of comfort than the NV200 (imo).

[iRage]

3 hours ago, tiv said:

Something interesting I noted, maybe a good topic for another thread.

I'm a big fan of car checks, taken in several cars myself. 

But lately not so much of a crime but more a less a unnoticed negligence has turned up in the used market, 

let me elaborate;

90% of the people I know, colleagues, friends, family, kin whatever have somewhat dropped down a few notches in the quality of care they gave for their car. Be it a Merc, Audi or a Toyota

Given the inflation, tyre prices, oil prices, filter prices,

majority of people are skimping on services, going for cheaper oils, cheaper parts, cheaper fuel so on. Not that this didn't happen before but the odds were fairly less unless you went for a car from the 80s.

Sadly unless something has really gone south, the most technical and elaborate inspection cannot detect such negligence, except of the owner is honest, then again this is Sri Lanka.

This has become very apparent in some of the 1000cc turbo civics of the 2017 era, few vehicles thereafter as well.

As paranoid as it sounds,

In the event I would go to buy a used car, I would prefer to purchase a known vehicle off a known person, in exchange for some guarantee and peace of mind, that it was well taken care of.

Not a remedy but to play safe, stay well clear from car sales to avoid a lemon.

 

 

Sadly..yes....you can't identify if the oil is of good or bad quality. I reckon the only way to know is after long term use of it if the engine is actually in good health or not.

[Nuwanm]

12 hours ago, iRage said:

Yes...the TownAce you are looking at (and TownAces irrespective of generation) are commercial vehicles. The passenger variants were the Noah/Voxy/Master Ace/Surf Ace/etc...

THe issue is the model you are looking at is even worst in terms of comfort than the NV200 (imo).

Thank you . Really helpful.

 

Btw, i was thinking of kr42 noah over freed(my last selection based on our previous conversation was freed).

Say 2007/2012 model.

Found many info in previous al discussions.

But couldnt find any on ground clearance . Google does not give an accurate value either . Can anyone pls tell me about ground clearance of kr42.

Sometimes i have to travel on bumpy and broken roads where ground clearance become a great deal. And i have to transport වී මලු and such cargo all the time. (Not for business purposes but for pursonal usage.)

And does anyone know about child car sear compatibility of noah kr42. 

I am now seriously thinking about noah kr42 over freed. Guys. Help me out

 

 

 

16 hours ago, tiv said:

Something interesting I noted, maybe a good topic for another thread.

I'm a big fan of car checks, taken in several cars myself. 

But lately not so much of a crime but more a less a unnoticed negligence has turned up in the used market, 

let me elaborate;

90% of the people I know, colleagues, friends, family, kin whatever have somewhat dropped down a few notches in the quality of care they gave for their car. Be it a Merc, Audi or a Toyota

Given the inflation, tyre prices, oil prices, filter prices,

majority of people are skimping on services, going for cheaper oils, cheaper parts, cheaper fuel so on. Not that this didn't happen before but the odds were fairly less unless you went for a car from the 80s.

Sadly unless something has really gone south, the most technical and elaborate inspection cannot detect such negligence, except of the owner is honest, then again this is Sri Lanka.

This has become very apparent in some of the 1000cc turbo civics of the 2017 era, few vehicles thereafter as well.

As paranoid as it sounds,

In the event I would go to buy a used car, I would prefer to purchase a known vehicle off a known person, in exchange for some guarantee and peace of mind, that it was well taken care of.

Not a remedy but to play safe, stay well clear from car sales to avoid a lemon.

 

 

Very good point sir. This i was thinking a lot and every second hand vehicle seeker will glad to read this.

 

And the last sentence 100%agreed

Edited October 21, 2022 by Nuwanm

[tiv]

11 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

Thank you . Really helpful.

 

Btw, i was thinking of kr42 noah over freed(my last selection based on our previous conversation was freed).

Say 2007/2012 model.

Found many info in previous al discussions.

But couldnt find any on ground clearance . Google does not give an accurate value either . Can anyone pls tell me about ground clearance of kr42.

Sometimes i have to travel on bumpy and broken roads where ground clearance become a great deal. And i have to transport වී මලු and such cargo all the time. (Not for business purposes but for pursonal usage.)

And does anyone know about child car sear compatibility of noah kr42. 

I am now seriously thinking about noah kr42 over freed. Guys. Help me out

 

 

 

Very good point sir. This i was thinking a lot and every second hand vehicle seeker will glad to read this.

 

And the last sentence 100%agreed

We had a CR51 for like 20 years from new, Auto 4wd, did turbo engine with M/T swap later, ground clearance is almost similar to a Hilux Vigo if you put it on 15' Tyres and 4wd system was very capable.

Being low market you might be able to find one for cheap, then again selling is also difficult. There is no major difference in fuel economy between both.

These models are still preferred in the hill country markets around nuwara eliya, lot of one owner vans there.

 

[Nuwanm]

4 hours ago, tiv said:

We had a CR51 for like 20 years from new, Auto 4wd, did turbo engine with M/T swap later, ground clearance is almost similar to a Hilux Vigo if you put it on 15' Tyres and 4wd system was very capable.

Being low market you might be able to find one for cheap, then again selling is also difficult. There is no major difference in fuel economy between both.

These models are still preferred in the hill country markets around nuwara eliya, lot of one owner vans there.

 

Thank you very much. 

Does the rear seats support child car seats. 

And one more thing. I want to buy a petrol vehicle thus KR 42. I have gone through some AL posts and found that NOAH are not commonly available in Sri Lanka and only ones are KR 42s (GL or DX) converted to NOAH. And AL forums suggest some conversions are not done properly.

So i am bit confused now. If I buy a KR42 converted to NOAH, what are the things i should be looking.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Nuwanm

[tiv]

30 minutes ago, Nuwanm said:

Thank you very much. 

Does the rear seats support child car seats. 

And one more thing. I want to buy a petrol vehicle thus KR 42. I have gone through some AL posts and found that NOAH are not commonly available in Sri Lanka and only ones are KR 42s (GL or DX) converted to NOAH. And AL forums suggest some conversions are not done properly.

So i am bit confused now. If I buy a KR42 converted to NOAH, what are the things i should be looking.

Original Noahs came with Chassis Tag SR40 and as SR50 (4wd), so on

There are only a handful of original Noahs in the country. Even if you buy a conversion, my opinion is by now all the problems would have been sorted. To be sure do an inspection at Car Checks or Toyota.

Noah 5 door models were very rare, so just see if a 5 door one was converted to 4 door by welding a cut panel. The welding bit and closing of the driver side rear door is the place where most issues come. Also get the dual AC lines checked by a AC place to see if the shrouding and things were done properly. Lastly the Noah gauge cluster is different from the stock one, and the harness is also different. Do check if all that was replaced correctly. Inspection will cover most of the above points.

Your problems are halved as you are looking for a petrol one, as most noahs in the market were petrol to diesel converted and then noah converted, the diffs, final drive, engine guards, subframe, all had changes which are overlooked during the petrol to diesel conversion. 

From the chassis no you can check if it was a factory 5 door or 4 door model, so try to get a 4 door van converted to a 4 door noah. 

They are very basic vans and any issue can be easily sorted. Since you are looking for a petrol one, the chances of finding a better conversion are higher as most of the hacked ones are diesel. The American billet grill model is the one that has issues with ground clearance because of the body kit.

My knowledge on the subject is now about a decade old, so follow a few facebook groups and you may get an idea of newer experts and garages who handle noahs.

[Nuwanm]

Thank you very much.

What is the difference of flat roof and high roof models of NOAH?

1 hour ago, tiv said:

There are only a handful of original Noahs in the country. Even if you buy a conversion, my opinion is by now all the problems would have been sorted. To be sure do an inspection at Car Checks or Toyota.

My understanding so far is that the GL, DX and NOAH models are all same except for their options. Same comfortability if NOAH seat set is installed. Am i correct here.

1 hour ago, tiv said:

Your problems are halved as you are looking for a petrol one, as most noahs in the market were petrol to diesel converted and then noah converted, the diffs, final drive, engine guards, subframe, all had changes which are overlooked during the petrol to diesel conversion. 

Understood.

1 hour ago, tiv said:

From the chassis no you can check if it was a factory 5 door or 4 door model, so try to get a 4 door van converted to a 4 door noah.

I prefer 5 doors model. found some five door models in online vehicle selling sites. But i found some AL forums stating the NOAH coversion is done best for 4 door model. Further they stated the AC system can not be properly installed if the right side rear door is available. 

1 hour ago, tiv said:

The American billet grill model is the one that has issues with ground clearance because of the body kit.

Noted. Is this the one you said

 

1 hour ago, tiv said:

My knowledge on the subject is now about a decade old, so follow a few facebook groups and you may get an idea of newer experts and garages who handle noahs.

I thinks the info you gave me clarified most of my doubts on the topic. thank you very much again

Edited October 21, 2022 by Nuwanm

[iRage]

12 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

Noted. Is this the one you said

No...American Billet version is this one:

Note the larger front bumper ?

12 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

My understanding so far is that the GL, DX and NOAH models are all same except for their options. Same comfortability if NOAH seat set is installed. Am i correct here.

To a certain extent yes....however the Noah has more sound insulation and the spring rates are a bit different that the DX,GL. You need to realise that he Noah is designated as a WAGON (i.e. for passenger use and model number will be something like CR40/50G or SR40/50G) and the DX, GL are VANs (i.e. for business use and will be something like CR4x/5xV or KR4x/5xV). So the latter has lesser sound deadening, and harder suspension. Also you will realise that the original has a much nicer plastic cladding that covers all the metal bits in the rear. Most of the conversions do not have that or are not properly installed so it rattles.

As to whether you can fit a child seat...yes...you can.  If it is an ORIGINAL Noah then the seat belt points are safe and the three point seat belt is properly installed on the pillar. With conversions it is not ncessarily possible. You willnotice that in most conversions the 3 point seatbelts are not there (you need 3 point seatbelts for a baby seat) and most conversions just have a lap belt that comes from the side of the seat. 

When looking at conversions you better look at every little detail like how securely and properly the rear seats have been fitted (remember the seat belt buckle goes in to the seat because the seat is supposed to be properly fitted along with the fitted rail mechanism). In most cases in SL they just drill holes and put where ever the baas feels like it.

Also...in terms of vans...Sri Lankans have this beleif that 4 door vans are better. With older vans that is not the case...5 door one are more stronger because there is a proper C pillar because of the door mechanism. But from around the late 90s things started getting better, especially for vans like the LiteAce/TownACe so 4 doors were as srong as the 5 doors (almost).

13 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

stated the AC system can not be properly installed if the right side rear door is available. 

Yes...because there are some AC controls and compnents where the driver's side rear door is at.

[Nuwanm]

8 hours ago, iRage said:

Note the larger front bumper ?

Yes thank you.

8 hours ago, iRage said:

Most of the conversions do not have that or are not properly installed so it rattles.

Understood

8 hours ago, iRage said:

As to whether you can fit a child seat...yes...you can.  If it is an ORIGINAL Noah then the seat belt points are safe and the three point seat belt is properly installed on the pillar. With conversions it is not ncessarily possible. You willnotice that in most conversions the 3 point seatbelts are not there (you need 3 point seatbelts for a baby seat) and most conversions just have a lap belt that comes from the side of the seat

Well explained, This was one of my concerns. Alomost all the NOAHs i have seen, got lap belts. 

8 hours ago, iRage said:

Yes...because there are some AC controls and compnents where the driver's side rear door is at.

so the idea is if i am going for a NOAH KR42 it would be safer to find a one with four doors.

 

And one more thing. If by any chance if found a actual NOAH the passenger model, how can i identify it. I did some googling and found the exteriar of the NOAH passenger model is different,. 

[iRage]

2 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

so the idea is if i am going for a NOAH KR42 it would be safer to find a one with four doors.

Well....safer is relative and epends on what has been dne...but a 4 door would have a more complete conversion if done properly.

2 hours ago, Nuwanm said:

found the exteriar of the NOAH passenger model is different,.

The picture you have posted is the R60 series Noah. This is the first generation where the Noah stopped being LiteAce/TownAce Noah and was jut the Noah. The TownAce/LiteAce during this time was the same as the old one (the model you are looking at) and later went to a different body style.

The generation you are looking at R40 and R50 series, the body shape is the same between the Noah and the standard business model TownAce. Differences are things like the lights, etc..and the trim bits.

How to identify a proper original Noah ? As in my previous pos, the model code has a G in it and the business models have a V in it. So..when you look at the vehicle ID plate...the silver plate that is riverted on to the car's body...you will see MODEL on it. Then there will be a code life GF-SR40G-GRSEK <this is just an example>. THe bold faced part...do you see a G at the end of the code ? G is for WAGON <don't ask why it is not W...W is used for WIDE body>. So that is how you identify whether it is originally a NOAH or not. Depending on the exact variant you are looking at the bold faced part will either be SR40G, SR50G, CR40G or CR50G. Now..in Sri Lanka people make fake ID plates...so make sure you look for the entire bold faced part not just the G.... If you really want to know what the entire model number means...

the GF part indicates the Japanese safety regulation code the car is subject to...so depending on the YoM it can have codes li GF, CD,DBA,etc....thebold faced part I explained. The last 5 (or 6) letters are codes that indicate the trim level (the Noah came in Royal Lounge, Super Extra,  Field Tourer, and LD. Depending on the period there were different limited edition packages released to boost up sales).

So..yeah...baby seats and lapbelts do not work. You need something with 3 point seatbelts. Also...if you are concerned about safety....you need to go for the newest possible car possible. No matter waht is said and done...newer cars do have better structural designs to keep the passenger compartment safe. For example..back in the day the popular AE100 Corolla was rated well for safety...but compared to modern standards the car rates very very poorly and crumbles like a papadam. Japanese vans are no different and actually worst (one reason why cars like the HiAe are not sold in most parts of the world and if they are there are speed governers that resrict it to 60 to 80 kmph and to be used only for cargo).

So....think really really hard about not going for a Freed.