Rebadging

[Duncan]

Hey everyone

Anybody here bought a rebadged vehicle? If so why did you stray from buying the original?

I ask this because, rebadging has always beaten the hell out of me.

We have a lot of this happening with various manufacturers and I fail to understand why at times the rebadged product outsells the original.

Here in our SA market, identical p/up trucks are marketed under Ford and Mazda guise. Infact it is a Mazda in original state. The thing different about the two (apart from cosmetics) is the warranties offered (this too I can't figure). Infact in certain cases prices of parts seems to differ. Though it's the identical thing.

I do understand the reasons behind the thinking of the manufacturers. Cost savings being the primary reason. But what is the thinking behind the customer?

People shunned Daewoos, but the same people are lining up to buy the same product which now is coming out as a GM brand! I have seen some of these cars and there isn't much (in terms of mechanical improvements) GM has done.

Wanna buy a rebadged TATA in Nissan guise ?

Cheers

[Elvis_Pil]

yeah even Toyota did it with Lexus on their Harriers & Altezza's. Over here at least the older Ford Lazer and the Mazda Familia shared the same body with different engines 1.5 and 1.6 lt I think.. The Ford's were always priced higher. Once a Daewoo always a Daewoo- waste of money in the long run

[mazdaspeed]

Ya This has been an issue for some time- I believe brand’s play a iatrical part as well as some brands are perceived to be higher. It the same with VW & Skoda in Europe .Mazda & Ford do share a lot in common in terms of parts- the new ones have identical parts (engine). In UK, Hundai ran a good AD Champaign where they talk about a car first and then the badge – or something in that nature. I take my Mazda to DPMC as I can’t stand Carmart.

[noaim]

Is honda & Isuzu on the same page?

cos ive seen some civic look-alike's sporting Isuzu badging... whats the deal?

[ucscsades]

Is honda & Isuzu on the same page?

cos ive seen some civic look-alike's sporting Isuzu badging... whats the deal?

yeah, sort of. I believe Honda owns Isuzu, or atleast used to....the main difference was that all the Isuzus are diesel and the Hondas are petrol. Atleast thats the main difference I've noticed, and I've never seen a diesel honda...or a petrol isuzu for that matter.

[The Don]

Doesn't GM have a stake in Isuzu? I think nearly all Diesel engines that Vauxhall uses have been developed by Isuzu, apart from the obvious give aways in parts (the diesel pumps etc are Isuzu) there is the distinctive Isuzu hum.

sometimes rebadging is done as a marketing ploy and sometimes it makes little difference, It was funny how the Fords and Mazda's and later Mazda's and Nissan (Bongo and Vanette) were nearly identical vehicles but they were priced differently,

Ford and Mazda's affiliation is well known and is quite old, but I guess Nissan after its tie up with Renaul, there are certainly some rebadged renaults carrying the Nissan badge going arround,

I think as long as the rebadging does not have an effect on quality and both manufacturers have a good reputation its rarely an issue,

But Nissan rebadging renaults is not quite the same as GM rebadging Daewoo i am sure most will aggree because they are 2 automakers with 2 different pediggrees.

Also i didn't realise the Honda I-CDTI engines were developed by Isuzu, they are awfully quiet and doesnt sound Isuzu at all, (you know the direct in injection hum that has always been associated with smaller Isuzu diesel engines, high revving and good acceloration)

Regards,

The Don

[GTAm]

It's called badge engineering in the motor industry.

It's all to do with economies of scale and having a complete range at your showroom. For example it's more profitable to make 250,000 cars than 125,000 cars. So when manufacturer A can sell only 125,000 cars from all their distributors, then it may make sense to offer manufacturer B a deal to market the same car with that manufacturers badge.

Since B also has a large distributor/dealer net work crying out for another model that B cannot afford to develop, they go to A and shake hands. I'm sure this is what happened with the Vannette badged Bongo.

In the 80's Ford took a stake (33.3%) in Mazda to stamp their presence in the Asia Pacific region and since Ford US had large cars that were not suitable for Asia and Ford Europe had expensive andf shitty cars that would not sell in Asia it made sense to get Mazda to re-badge the 323 as the Laser and the 626 as the Telstar. Mazda learned how to design good cars and emply European dsign houses as Ford deasign came from their own Ghia studio in Italy.

And everythng is the same except the grille badges and lamp. The 1.6 and 1.5 are both Mazda units.

As for Lexus and Toyota in Japan there used to be no Lexus (not sure if they're there now) and all Lexus models are badged Toyotas so that's why we get the Harrier here instead of the RX. But now other Asian markets do get Lexus.

The VW story is a bit different as VW fully owns Audi, Seat and Skoda. And all the cars share the same basic architecture. But materials used and suspension set up varies according to the brand. Now after realizing the cars were too similar the VW group has decided to make them more different.

I think people shunned Daewoos because they were terrible and very flimsy. GM has improved the quality and brought in a few newer cars which seems better. Also Daewoo was a cash strapped and mismanaged company towards the latter stages of its life and that hurt sales.

You won't see a TATA badged Nissan but you will soon see a Fiat engined TATA. You will also see a Cherry engined Fiats. Which is the latest deal Fiat has signed.

You will also see Nissan engined Renaults and the new X-trail will spawn a Renault soft roader called the Kalos which was developed with the help of Samsung Auto which also is controlled by Renault.

BTW the latest badge engineered soft roaders are the Peugeot 4007 and Citroen C-Crosser which are actually the new Mitsubishi Outlander!!! And to confuse everyone even more....the Diesel outlander will have a VW engine in Europe!! Deals within deals!!

Another crazy badge engineering exercise is the Saab 9-2 which is actually the Subaru Impreza wagon. Saab is owned by GM and when it happened GM had a stake in Subaru which they sold to Toyota recently. GM, Saab and Subaru are all loss makers.

And anyone remember the 80's Civic which was badged the Rover 213 in Europe? Not to mention the later 200s that were rebadged Honda Domanis. In fact the Rover 800 series had Honda V6s and gear boxes as the car was developed jointly.

And the first Land Rover Discovery was badged a Honda for the Japanese market....Must have been the worst built Honda ever !

Anyway I really don't think badge engineering works. It's just that manufacturers do it when they are desperate.

[Pericles]

I dunno about Nissan badge Renualts, but at least 3 Renaults use the Nissan VQ engine

As for Lexus and Toyota, not really sure that can be called rebadging. I mean, Lexus originally is just a brand name developed by Toyota to market its more upmarket products in the US, right? I mean, its not quite the same as, say, Mazda and Ford.

Then again, there are examples like the Suzuki Swift, which is badged as the Chevy Cruze, which are the same internally and mechanically. However, the interior and the feel of the Cruze is better than the Swift, so there can be some justification to the different price points. Its like having a different option level.

[Duncan]

Well...all I can say is that cars are becoming like supermarket shelf items.

They don't make cars like they used to any more.

by the way...ISUZU is part owned by GM and is the largest Diesel Engine manufacturer in the world.

[Elvis_Pil]

Wiki's got a great write up on this check:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebadging

Its got a very comprehensive list of car models that have been rebadged.

[Marco]

As for Lexus and Toyota, not really sure that can be called rebadging. I mean, Lexus originally is just a brand name developed by Toyota to market its more upmarket products in the US, right?

Not only in the US but also in Europe. Over here Lexus competes with luxury cars like Mercedes, Audi and BMW.

[ash]

Nissan's badge engineering

Under the "Nissan" and "Infiniti" brand name, there are no less than 27 different model names, simply as many as General Motor. Unquestionably, many of them share the same platforms. Here below tells you the story behind these names :

March platform

March : Japanese version

Micra : European version, different name but others virtually unchanged. Build in Sunderland, England.

Sunny platform

Sunny : Japanese version from which variants developed.

Sentra : the name of USA version, same as Sunny except styling and engine.

Almera : European version. Retuned suspensions improved handling. Looks quite different. Hatchback. Top spec GTi uses 143hp 2 litres 16v engine.

Pulsar : Japanese, hatchback version of Sunny.

Lucino : Japanese, 2-doors coupe version. Top of the range VZ-R uses 1.6 litres engine with variable valve timing, 175hp, 120lbft.

200SX : strangely, American Nissan calls this car "200SX", easily confuses with the rear-wheel drive 200SX (they call it 240SX in USA). Same body as Lucino coupe, but installed with 2 litres engine, 140hp but output more torque.

Tino : mini MPV based on Almera.

Primera platform

UK Primera : build in England and supplies the whole Europe. Emphasis handling.

Japanese Primera : nearly identical to UK's Primera, but softer suspensions.

Bluebird : simply a revamped Primera. No reason for existence, but Nissan hopes to keep this historical name alive.

Camino : another revamped Primera.

Altima : USA version, different styling, uses 2.4 litres 16v engine with 150hp.

Cefiro platform

Cefiro : Japanese version

Maxima : Simply a renamed Cefiro selling in USA.

QX : Again the same car, supply European market.

Infiniti I30 : While Maxima targeting at the full size family sedan market in USA, Nissan offers a better equipped version to compete in executive sedan market. Inevitably, Infiniti brand is used.

Cedric platform

Cedric : all these 3 are local market model. Cedric is the traditional name.

Gloria : just different styling.

Leopard : it used to be a 2-doors luxurious coupe, but now combines with Cedric to reduce cost.

Infiniti Q45 platform

Infiniti Q45 : International version.

Cima : "Nissan" version selling in Japan.

President : traditionally the special edition serving Japanese royal family, still base on the first generation Q45

200SX platform

200SX : standard version.

240SX : American version. Mostly differs in engine - 155hp 2.4 litres 16v. Far slower than 200SX.

Skyline platform

Skyline Sedan : 4 doors version.

Skyline Coupe : 2 doors version, shorter wheelbase.

Skyline GTR : the hottest version of the Coupe. No need to introduce.

Laurel : It used to be a Rwd mid-size sedan. Now Nissan merges it with the Skyline Sedan to cut cost. More luxurious than Skyline.

[Pericles]

Since when was the Pulsar only a hatchback?

[ash]

Since when was the Pulsar only a hatchback?

True... But not my quote...

[fuzzo]

I dunno about Nissan badge Renualts, but at least 3 Renaults use the Nissan VQ engine

As for Lexus and Toyota, not really sure that can be called rebadging. I mean, Lexus originally is just a brand name developed by Toyota to market its more upmarket products in the US, right?

toyota/lexus have also launched their performance division to compete with M/amg..they call it F. i think it stands for fast

their model no's will just have a F at the end of it. like is300F