Car/s under 1mil for a first time buyer

[wellball]

Hi Guys, what is the best car(s) available to buy for 1 million or under at the moment?

I'm extremely new to this subject and still learning many things. 

I'm particularly interested in below features. 

1. A good choice as the first car.

2. High- availability of spare parts.

3. Reliability.

4. Fuel efficiency.

Looking forward to interact with you.

Thanks in advance!

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by iRage

[iRage]

For your budget you are looking at cars from the early (to mid) 80s. Cars like KE72 Corolla (DX wagon), AE80 Corolla sedans, box Lancers, Sunny, Starlets, Nissan Marches, etc...

The only hitch is being nearly 40 years old, reliability depends on how well the previous owners have restores/repaired and serviced it. Sadly most of the above cars for your budget are average and can go either way. They ones that have been restored or maintained to factory spec are typically twice your budget.

The above cars are simple as there are not much electronics. However most of the cars have carburetors and these days there aren't many mechanics who know how to properly service and fix one. So that is one thing you have to be aware of. If you want to go for a car with electronic fuel injection (thus no carburetor) then you will have to go for a late 80s (or onwards) car and those are again almost double your budget.

The models I mentioned have plenty of mechanical parts, however, body parts are starting to get harder to find.

Unfortunately, there don't seem to be many options for your budget. Remember, if 1mil is all you have to spend on a car, you should keep about 300K LKR for repairs you will have to do as soon as you buy the car (there always is and there are things you must do). So that means you now only have about 800K for the car.

[wellball]

4 hours ago, iRage said:

For your budget you are looking at cars from the early (to mid) 80s. Cars like KE72 Corolla (DX wagon), AE80 Corolla sedans, box Lancers, Sunny, Starlets, Nissan Marches, etc...

The only hitch is being nearly 40 years old, reliability depends on how well the previous owners have restores/repaired and serviced it. Sadly most of the above cars for your budget are average and can go either way. They ones that have been restored or maintained to factory spec are typically twice your budget.

The above cars are simple as there are not much electronics. However most of the cars have carburetors and these days there aren't many mechanics who know how to properly service and fix one. So that is one thing you have to be aware of. If you want to go for a car with electronic fuel injection (thus no carburetor) then you will have to go for a late 80s (or onwards) car and those are again almost double your budget.

The models I mentioned have plenty of mechanical parts, however, body parts are starting to get harder to find.

Unfortunately, there don't seem to be many options for your budget. Remember, if 1mil is all you have to spend on a car, you should keep about 300K LKR for repairs you will have to do as soon as you buy the car (there always is and there are things you must do). So that means you now only have about 800K for the car.

Thank you so much for your lengthy explanation that I learned a few more new things. 

What do you think about the price range that would allow for a reasonable used car?

And one last thing, would you expect the price of vehicles to decrease any time soon?

[matroska]

12 hours ago, wellball said:

I'm extremely new to this subject and still learning many things. 

I'm particularly interested in below features. 

1. A good choice as the first car.

2. High- availability of spare parts.

3. Reliability.

4. Fuel efficiency.

Looking forward to interact with you.

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

Interesting budget range - you have a LOT of options including interesting Euro's like Pug's, Vw golfs Passats, Subaru Leones etc. However since you mentioned this is your first car and you're concerned about the spare part availability I'd recommend you stick to the mainstream cars from the 1980's. 1990's cars in this budget range are best avoided. 

Reliability is of course something that cannot be predicted - these cars  have run several times to the moon and back , survived civil wars, bombings, inept rulers and  natural disasters. Be warned that these are mostly carbureted engines and those mechanics are getting rarer to find - on the plus side once you do find someone who can work on carbs properly given the simplicity of these engines they're easily fixable. You'll have to deal with high part costs and service costs even for older vehicles. Fuel efficiency is again something that cannot be predicted - specially with carbs identical cars with the same mileage could give you highly varying fuel figures.

with those out of the way let's look at your options. 

Obvious ones would be to look at the holy trinity of Sri Lankan Car's in the 80's - From the early part of the decade the Lancer Box A172A's. (the premios of the 1980's), From the middle of the decade the Corolla KE72/73/74 Wagons (the workhorse that probably spelt 'toyotas are reliable' for the Sri Lankan masses) and from the end of the decade the Nissan Trad Sunny (B12) - which unfortunately might not be in your budget : Good specimens are a bit expensive but if you are lucky you might be able to source one from a desperate seller. These cars are very common and most mechanics are confident fixing them, parts are still easily found. Prices of these vary from as low as 400k to close to 2Million depending on condition  but i'd say 1M will get you a solid Lancer, while 800-900 will get you a pretty good Corolla wagon. 

Then we have other options like the Toyota Corolla AE80/81s and the Corona and Carina T150's from the mid 80s not as common or popular as the options above. While mechanical parts for the 80's Toyota's are very commonly found body parts and lights etc are not easily found (the KE7X wagons are an exception) It's a bit worse when it comes to the Honda Civics of similar vintage (the so called roof-console model) decent cars but most of them have been riced too much. 

Two underrated and very cheap common cars well well within your budget are the Sunny B310 and Lancer Wagon. Of course due to the cheap factor most of them have been routinely abused but you still find the odd good specimen or a restored one.  You'd be able to get one for 2/3rds of your budget in good nick. Not to forget the mitsubishi lancer A70-s locally known as Flat Light/I Light/L Light etc. 

B11 sunny is another option -internals and mechanical parts are still not a big issue. Body parts might be a problem. Assorted variants of Mazda familas ford lasers also make the cut. 

Decent Hatches - March k10 and Daihatsu charade - probably the newest you can get for your budget. Starlet EP71's are overpriced you can't get one for your budget. 

Whatever you buy please pay attention to the drive train and body condition. Look for a car that has proper body lines, and one where the doors can be actually closed. Look for corrosion on floor boards and wheel arches. And check if gear shifting is smooth - gearbox repairs are costly affairs. Car's with original condition (exterior and interior) hold value more often. No one want's to buy riced up shitboxes. If possible get to drive the car to run in the rain most cars from this era leak water from under the firewall. 

if you'd like to know more about Lancers and Starlet's let me know. 

4 hours ago, wellball said:

What do you think about the price range that would allow for a reasonable used car?

And one last thing, would you expect the price of vehicles to decrease any time soon?

Price range varies largely based on the model.

Corolla Wagon /Lancer - absolute minters go for above 1.5 at times but for around 1M you can get a mint Nissan B11 or a Corolla AE80. 

Prices are already decreasing. If you bargain hard you can get good value for money. 

Another tip - go for a car with second CR if it's registered to the person selling you can get a few hundred thousand off. 

Also read this thread for more ideas 

 

 

 

 

 

[wellball]

2 hours ago, matroska said:

 

Interesting budget range - you have a LOT of options including interesting Euro's like Pug's, Vw golfs Passats, Subaru Leones etc. However since you mentioned this is your first car and you're concerned about the spare part availability I'd recommend you stick to the mainstream cars from the 1980's. 1990's cars in this budget range are best avoided. 

Reliability is of course something that cannot be predicted - these cars  have run several times to the moon and back , survived civil wars, bombings, inept rulers and  natural disasters. Be warned that these are mostly carbureted engines and those mechanics are getting rarer to find - on the plus side once you do find someone who can work on carbs properly given the simplicity of these engines they're easily fixable. You'll have to deal with high part costs and service costs even for older vehicles. Fuel efficiency is again something that cannot be predicted - specially with carbs identical cars with the same mileage could give you highly varying fuel figures.

with those out of the way let's look at your options. 

Obvious ones would be to look at the holy trinity of Sri Lankan Car's in the 80's - From the early part of the decade the Lancer Box A172A's. (the premios of the 1980's), From the middle of the decade the Corolla KE72/73/74 Wagons (the workhorse that probably spelt 'toyotas are reliable' for the Sri Lankan masses) and from the end of the decade the Nissan Trad Sunny (B12) - which unfortunately might not be in your budget : Good specimens are a bit expensive but if you are lucky you might be able to source one from a desperate seller. These cars are very common and most mechanics are confident fixing them, parts are still easily found. Prices of these vary from as low as 400k to close to 2Million depending on condition  but i'd say 1M will get you a solid Lancer, while 800-900 will get you a pretty good Corolla wagon. 

Then we have other options like the Toyota Corolla AE80/81s and the Corona and Carina T150's from the mid 80s not as common or popular as the options above. While mechanical parts for the 80's Toyota's are very commonly found body parts and lights etc are not easily found (the KE7X wagons are an exception) It's a bit worse when it comes to the Honda Civics of similar vintage (the so called roof-console model) decent cars but most of them have been riced too much. 

Two underrated and very cheap common cars well well within your budget are the Sunny B310 and Lancer Wagon. Of course due to the cheap factor most of them have been routinely abused but you still find the odd good specimen or a restored one.  You'd be able to get one for 2/3rds of your budget in good nick. Not to forget the mitsubishi lancer A70-s locally known as Flat Light/I Light/L Light etc. 

B11 sunny is another option -internals and mechanical parts are still not a big issue. Body parts might be a problem. Assorted variants of Mazda familas ford lasers also make the cut. 

Decent Hatches - March k10 and Daihatsu charade - probably the newest you can get for your budget. Starlet EP71's are overpriced you can't get one for your budget. 

Whatever you buy please pay attention to the drive train and body condition. Look for a car that has proper body lines, and one where the doors can be actually closed. Look for corrosion on floor boards and wheel arches. And check if gear shifting is smooth - gearbox repairs are costly affairs. Car's with original condition (exterior and interior) hold value more often. No one want's to buy riced up shitboxes. If possible get to drive the car to run in the rain most cars from this era leak water from under the firewall. 

if you'd like to know more about Lancers and Starlet's let me know. 

Price range varies largely based on the model.

Corolla Wagon /Lancer - absolute minters go for above 1.5 at times but for around 1M you can get a mint Nissan B11 or a Corolla AE80. 

Prices are already decreasing. If you bargain hard you can get good value for money. 

Another tip - go for a car with second CR if it's registered to the person selling you can get a few hundred thousand off. 

Also read this thread for more ideas 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your detailed answer! And also for the link. 

Of all the options you have suggested, I have particularly liked (after some surfing) B11, Corolla AE80 and Trad Sunny (although it exceeds my budget range). 

Since you have asked me if would like to know more on Lancers and Starlets, of course I do. What would be the ideal choice of Lancer/s for my requirement? 

While going through most well known websites, I saw that mileages are drastically different for the same model. May I know what causes that? Anything shady going on with them? 

Thanks in advance! 

[iRage]

11 hours ago, wellball said:

While going through most well known websites, I saw that mileages are drastically different for the same model. May I know what causes that?

Do not trust mileages...especially cars that are this old. They could have been rolled back  every time it changed hands over the last few decades. Also, being this old, it is common for things like the speedo cables, gear mechanisms to break and they get fixed...so readings are not always accurate. Just go with the condition you see in front of your eyes.

Matroska recommended the Lancer wagon...If you are in for a wagon I would suggest a KE72 be a better option for a newbie. Mainly because it is more common. The Lancer wagon is a more interesting car to drive. A Nissan AD van from the 80s will also fit your budget.

19 hours ago, wellball said:

would you expect the price of vehicles to decrease any time soon?

Not even the Gods can predict this...but in a normal place with an economy on crutches, it would not. But Sri Lanka being Sri Lanka you can never tell. 

[wellball]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Do not trust mileages...especially cars that are this old. They could have been rolled back  every time it changed hands over the last few decades. Also, being this old, it is common for things like the speedo cables, gear mechanisms to break and they get fixed...so readings are not always accurate. Just go with the condition you see in front of your eyes.

Matroska recommended the Lancer wagon...If you are in for a wagon I would suggest a KE72 be a better option for a newbie. Mainly because it is more common. The Lancer wagon is a more interesting car to drive. A Nissan AD van from the 80s will also fit your budget.

Not even the Gods can predict this...but in a normal place with an economy on crutches, it would not. But Sri Lanka being Sri Lanka you can never tell. 

12 hours ago, wellball said:

While going through most well known websites, I saw that mileages are drastically different for the same model. May I know what causes that? Anything shady going on with them? 

Thank you so much!

[wellball]

Hi guys, in need of your help! 

Can you kindly compare,

1.AE80

2.B11 

3.Trad Sunny

4.Daihatsu Charade (80's)

In terms of

1. Newbie friendliness

2. Spare parts and body parts availability

3. Fuel efficiency

4. Overall reliability

5. General price range for a solid specimen 

Thanks in advance!

[Twin Turbo]

Hi, the Charade diesel stands out in fuel efficiency, but for others, 

[iRage]

Out of the list the Charade is probably the car that will have the least amount of body parts.

The B11 Sunny is..well not the best of Sunnies. Out of the list is also not the nicest car to drive but it gets the job done. The B12 is much better. It is the more "modern" car out of the list and in the right spec will be the most luxurious too. Sadly, for your budget, what you will be able to find are not very good speciments.

The AE80/AE81/EE80 is a workhorse. Sadly we don't get high spec SE, SE Limited or GT variants in SL (most are DX, GL and GL Saloon trim levels). Most are 1300cc AE80s or EE80s. Try to get a AE81 which is 1.5L. 

All of the above cars are newbie friendly to own as they are simple. However that has to do with reliability. Like most of us said in your previous thread, reliability depends on how the car has been repaired, restored and services throughout the last 40 years. All of these cars were reliable and sturdy workhorses when knew. They could take a lot of abuse and hard use. Guess what the people did ? They abused and used them hard with minimum possible servicing. So..reliability ? That cannot be determined. Only thing you can do is that make sure that the previous owner has properly fixed and serviced the car (i.e. no cheap Chinese parts and hack jobs by makabaases). Sadly for you...for your budget you are going ot find average cars that have been taken care of in an average way. You won't find the best and well restored ones for less than a million.

Fuel efficiency....when new these cars got 10ish kmpl on average. The 1.3L cariants if driven on long distance or under load did a little bit less (we had 1.5 and 1.3 E80 Corollas and B12 series Sunnies...the 1.5L were much better on fuel on average). However..now..fuel efficiency could have dropped because of engine wear. So...the better the condition of the car..the better the fuel efficiency will be. 

General price range...most of the well restored good specimens have changed hands for 1.5mil + (B12 and E80 Corollas and KE72/KE73 Corolla van/wagon). They hardly come up for sale and get exchanged within groups.

 

[wellball]

20 hours ago, iRage said:

Out of the list the Charade is probably the car that will have the least amount of body parts.

The B11 Sunny is..well not the best of Sunnies. Out of the list is also not the nicest car to drive but it gets the job done. The B12 is much better. It is the more "modern" car out of the list and in the right spec will be the most luxurious too. Sadly, for your budget, what you will be able to find are not very good speciments.

The AE80/AE81/EE80 is a workhorse. Sadly we don't get high spec SE, SE Limited or GT variants in SL (most are DX, GL and GL Saloon trim levels). Most are 1300cc AE80s or EE80s. Try to get a AE81 which is 1.5L. 

All of the above cars are newbie friendly to own as they are simple. However that has to do with reliability. Like most of us said in your previous thread, reliability depends on how the car has been repaired, restored and services throughout the last 40 years. All of these cars were reliable and sturdy workhorses when knew. They could take a lot of abuse and hard use. Guess what the people did ? They abused and used them hard with minimum possible servicing. So..reliability ? That cannot be determined. Only thing you can do is that make sure that the previous owner has properly fixed and serviced the car (i.e. no cheap Chinese parts and hack jobs by makabaases). Sadly for you...for your budget you are going ot find average cars that have been taken care of in an average way. You won't find the best and well restored ones for less than a million.

Fuel efficiency....when new these cars got 10ish kmpl on average. The 1.3L cariants if driven on long distance or under load did a little bit less (we had 1.5 and 1.3 E80 Corollas and B12 series Sunnies...the 1.5L were much better on fuel on average). However..now..fuel efficiency could have dropped because of engine wear. So...the better the condition of the car..the better the fuel efficiency will be. 

General price range...most of the well restored good specimens have changed hands for 1.5mil + (B12 and E80 Corollas and KE72/KE73 Corolla van/wagon). They hardly come up for sale and get exchanged within groups.

 

Thank you so much for the answer.

[iRage]

2 hours ago, wellball said:

Thank you so much for the answer.

May I ask ? How are you with doing stuff ? Like when a tap or plug at home is broken are you confident about fixing it ? If someone showed you a pile of bricks and cement and said they needed a wall, will you be jumping up to build one ?

I am asking this because...can you be mechanically inclined ? When it comes to small things like changing oil or attending to small niggles or even inspecting certain things on the car on a regular basis...will you be up to doing it ?

On a Wednesday morning when you step out of the house to drive to work and your car doesn't start, will you be mad and kicking the car ? or will you feel sad and worried about it like you would be for a human ?

[matroska]

On 4/27/2023 at 9:22 AM, wellball said:

Hi guys, in need of your help! 

Can you kindly compare,

1.AE80

2.B11 

3.Trad Sunny

4.Daihatsu Charade (80's)

In terms of

1. Newbie friendliness

2. Spare parts and body parts availability

3. Fuel efficiency

4. Overall reliability

5. General price range for a solid specimen 

Thanks in advance!

Ok let me try to give a reasonable answer here

Newbie Friendliness : Trad is the winner here. It's newer it's more modern , some models come with power steering etc. Charade comes up next - it's small nimble and if you go for a petrol it's got decent pickup (Diesels are underpowered) I'd say a tie between B11 and AE80. For a new user i'd recomend to get a car with a bit of oomph - power + torque you will get sick of the car if it feels underpowered. So HB11 (1.5 CC ) if you're going for the B11 and AE81 again 1.5 if going for the corolla.  Trad>Charade>B11>AE80

Spart Parts : Easily Trad here. It's a common car - you still see at least 4/5 of them on a road daily and there are still resonable parts availability. Followed by the B11. Surprisingly toyota's (barring the KE wagons) do NOT have the spare parts availability they had back in the day compared to now. I Charade is a big issue here. Specially the diesel version. 

Trad >>>>B11>AE80/81>>>>Charade

Fuel Efficiency Toughy to answer. Two trads that rolled off the same assembly line on the same day would return different fuel figures 30+ years later. Technically though the Charade should be the winner here  Next the B11 and Toyota and the trad would not be far behind. I'd expect all of these roughly to do 10ish per liter i'd actually call this a tie for 2nd place. 

Charade>AE80/B11/Trad

Overall reliability : Again depends on the specific unit you buy. I mean all of these are carbureted engines and they're not reliable as EFI. But here's a point to ponder. There are few of these cars with engine swaps - given the charade spares are rare there is the odd charade swapped with newer EFI engines - common one being the 4E from Toyota Starlets. There were few early EFI Trads and technically you can swap in a GA15 EFI onto a trad without hassle. Swaps need to be done right - but there are few good swaps that are running daily. 

General Price :

Varies largely on the model . If going for a Trad Sunny - i'd recommend the 1.5 L version. These are a bit expensive. 1300 L Trad's (B12) are cheaper but they're very spartan compared to the HB/FB12's  

B11 - again i recommend the newer/face lift (locally called long buffer) with 1.5 L engine (HB11) Pre facelift B11 will be cheaper 1.3 (B11) is anyway cheaper than the HB11. 

Charades are bit expensive for some reason  Corolla AE80 - try to go for an AE81. Same price range as the B11 I guess. 

Prices are very volatile now - so it all depends on how you bargain and how desperate the seller is . 

Good cars are usually above 1Million. Usually B11/s and AE80's and charades are cheaper than Trads. 

In summary - out of these 4 try to go for a Trad Sunny if you can afford it but remember cheaper cars might be a lot of trouble. That will tick all your boxes. But if the budget constraint is there - I'd suggest B11 as the next option - (you might be able to get one for around 800k and keep 200 for repairs. )and the corolla after that. Charade is a bit of a risk due to spare part availability. 

For your reference. 

Facelifted B11

 

Pre-facelift B11 : 

[wellball]

On 4/28/2023 at 1:01 PM, iRage said:

May I ask ? How are you with doing stuff ? Like when a tap or plug at home is broken are you confident about fixing it ? If someone showed you a pile of bricks and cement and said they needed a wall, will you be jumping up to build one ?

I am asking this because...can you be mechanically inclined ? When it comes to small things like changing oil or attending to small niggles or even inspecting certain things on the car on a regular basis...will you be up to doing it ?

On a Wednesday morning when you step out of the house to drive to work and your car doesn't start, will you be mad and kicking the car ? or will you feel sad and worried about it like you would be for a human ?

Valid question. I wouldn't say that I'm mechanically inclined as I'm extremely new to this subject. But I'm slowly learning the basics. 

Thank you so much for your valuable input. Since joined in, I have learned many new things from the forum. 

[wellball]

On 4/28/2023 at 3:12 PM, matroska said:

Ok let me try to give a reasonable answer here

Newbie Friendliness : Trad is the winner here. It's newer it's more modern , some models come with power steering etc. Charade comes up next - it's small nimble and if you go for a petrol it's got decent pickup (Diesels are underpowered) I'd say a tie between B11 and AE80. For a new user i'd recomend to get a car with a bit of oomph - power + torque you will get sick of the car if it feels underpowered. So HB11 (1.5 CC ) if you're going for the B11 and AE81 again 1.5 if going for the corolla.  Trad>Charade>B11>AE80

Spart Parts : Easily Trad here. It's a common car - you still see at least 4/5 of them on a road daily and there are still resonable parts availability. Followed by the B11. Surprisingly toyota's (barring the KE wagons) do NOT have the spare parts availability they had back in the day compared to now. I Charade is a big issue here. Specially the diesel version. 

Trad >>>>B11>AE80/81>>>>Charade

Fuel Efficiency Toughy to answer. Two trads that rolled off the same assembly line on the same day would return different fuel figures 30+ years later. Technically though the Charade should be the winner here  Next the B11 and Toyota and the trad would not be far behind. I'd expect all of these roughly to do 10ish per liter i'd actually call this a tie for 2nd place. 

Charade>AE80/B11/Trad

Overall reliability : Again depends on the specific unit you buy. I mean all of these are carbureted engines and they're not reliable as EFI. But here's a point to ponder. There are few of these cars with engine swaps - given the charade spares are rare there is the odd charade swapped with newer EFI engines - common one being the 4E from Toyota Starlets. There were few early EFI Trads and technically you can swap in a GA15 EFI onto a trad without hassle. Swaps need to be done right - but there are few good swaps that are running daily. 

General Price :

Varies largely on the model . If going for a Trad Sunny - i'd recommend the 1.5 L version. These are a bit expensive. 1300 L Trad's (B12) are cheaper but they're very spartan compared to the HB/FB12's  

B11 - again i recommend the newer/face lift (locally called long buffer) with 1.5 L engine (HB11) Pre facelift B11 will be cheaper 1.3 (B11) is anyway cheaper than the HB11. 

Charades are bit expensive for some reason  Corolla AE80 - try to go for an AE81. Same price range as the B11 I guess. 

Prices are very volatile now - so it all depends on how you bargain and how desperate the seller is . 

Good cars are usually above 1Million. Usually B11/s and AE80's and charades are cheaper than Trads. 

In summary - out of these 4 try to go for a Trad Sunny if you can afford it but remember cheaper cars might be a lot of trouble. That will tick all your boxes. But if the budget constraint is there - I'd suggest B11 as the next option - (you might be able to get one for around 800k and keep 200 for repairs. )and the corolla after that. Charade is a bit of a risk due to spare part availability. 

For your reference. 

Facelifted B11

 

Pre-facelift B11 : 

What a great answer! A mere "thank you" wouldn't suffice how grateful I am. Please continue your good work! Heartfelt thanks again. Apologies on delayed response.

[iRage]

14 hours ago, wellball said:

Valid question. I wouldn't say that I'm mechanically inclined as I'm extremely new to this subject. But I'm slowly learning the basics. 

Thank you so much for your valuable input. Since joined in, I have learned many new things from the forum. 

Well....the reason is...for an old car...there are going to be little stupid things that pop-up. You can't be running to a garage every time these things come up so you should plan on doing some of these little things yourself or have a friend or a mechanic nearby who will be willing ot just drop by and do these things for you.

Looking at the above replies...as you can see... @matroska and I agree on the B12 (FB or HB..HB being the newer one). Most modern and in the right spec the most luxurious. However, the two of us are going to have to agree to disagree on the B11.

If presented with a Corolla (E80) and a Sunny (B11) in similar condition...go with the Corolla. True, the Sunny's higher Laurel Spirit or liimted edition SGL trim level variants might have things like power windows but those are very rare. In the early 80s power windows were not standard in this segment of car (it was an option even in the highest grade). The B12 was the first car in the segment to offer power windows as standard on the upper trim levels. So for early 80s cars..don't expect to find anything more than AC, Power steering and power windows in the higest grades. Also..irrespective of the car..keep in mind that the electronics from the 80s can become a pain if messed around with.

***Continue reading if you want to know why the E80 Corolla is better than the B11 Sunny****

The Sunny (and Lancer) were in many ways segment leaders in terms of tech and refinement. Toyota was playing catch up with the Corolla. Drive a Sunny (or Lancer) before 1983 and you will see that they are a lot better than the Corolla. Corolla was popular because of Toyota's sales network but the other two were considered to be the better cars. It all changed with the b11 and E8-.

The B11 is an absolute hound of a car. In fact it was considered to be a shift away from the spirit of what the sunny is supposed to be and was a disappointing replacement to the B310 series Sunny. That is the reason why Nissan tagged the B12 Sunny as the Trad Sunny (trad being traditional...the Sunny going back to what it was).  The Corollas 2E and 2A 1.3L engines and 3A 1.5L were much more powerful and equally robust to the Nissan's 1.3L E13 and 1.5L E15 engine. In 1.3L form the Sunny's E13 had only like 58 or something HP compared to the Corolla's  74(?) hp (in the Japanese market variant which is what we have in SL). In 1.5L form the Sunny's E15 had about 75hp and the Corolla's 3A-U had about 82hp.
Then there was the suspension. The B11 adopted a trailing arm setup (has a reverse A arm to mount on the components) which is what rear wheel drive cars with a live axle in the back used. The Corolla had a very primitive (in modern day standards) McPherson strut setup. The Corolla was more comfortable and easier to drive than the Sunny as the Sunny's rear would bounce and easily loose grip. Then there is the steering....there is something rubber bandy about it. The B12 doesn't have it..but it returned with the B14 (the B14 is another car you should stay away from).

 

[wellball]

3 hours ago, iRage said:

Well....the reason is...for an old car...there are going to be little stupid things that pop-up. You can't be running to a garage every time these things come up so you should plan on doing some of these little things yourself or have a friend or a mechanic nearby who will be willing ot just drop by and do these things for you.

Looking at the above replies...as you can see... @matroska and I agree on the B12 (FB or HB..HB being the newer one). Most modern and in the right spec the most luxurious. However, the two of us are going to have to agree to disagree on the B11.

If presented with a Corolla (E80) and a Sunny (B11) in similar condition...go with the Corolla. True, the Sunny's higher Laurel Spirit or liimted edition SGL trim level variants might have things like power windows but those are very rare. In the early 80s power windows were not standard in this segment of car (it was an option even in the highest grade). The B12 was the first car in the segment to offer power windows as standard on the upper trim levels. So for early 80s cars..don't expect to find anything more than AC, Power steering and power windows in the higest grades. Also..irrespective of the car..keep in mind that the electronics from the 80s can become a pain if messed around with.

***Continue reading if you want to know why the E80 Corolla is better than the B11 Sunny****

The Sunny (and Lancer) were in many ways segment leaders in terms of tech and refinement. Toyota was playing catch up with the Corolla. Drive a Sunny (or Lancer) before 1983 and you will see that they are a lot better than the Corolla. Corolla was popular because of Toyota's sales network but the other two were considered to be the better cars. It all changed with the b11 and E8-.

The B11 is an absolute hound of a car. In fact it was considered to be a shift away from the spirit of what the sunny is supposed to be and was a disappointing replacement to the B310 series Sunny. That is the reason why Nissan tagged the B12 Sunny as the Trad Sunny (trad being traditional...the Sunny going back to what it was).  The Corollas 2E and 2A 1.3L engines and 3A 1.5L were much more powerful and equally robust to the Nissan's 1.3L E13 and 1.5L E15 engine. In 1.3L form the Sunny's E13 had only like 58 or something HP compared to the Corolla's  74(?) hp (in the Japanese market variant which is what we have in SL). In 1.5L form the Sunny's E15 had about 75hp and the Corolla's 3A-U had about 82hp.
Then there was the suspension. The B11 adopted a trailing arm setup (has a reverse A arm to mount on the components) which is what rear wheel drive cars with a live axle in the back used. The Corolla had a very primitive (in modern day standards) McPherson strut setup. The Corolla was more comfortable and easier to drive than the Sunny as the Sunny's rear would bounce and easily loose grip. Then there is the steering....there is something rubber bandy about it. The B12 doesn't have it..but it returned with the B14 (the B14 is another car you should stay away from).

 

Thank you so much for your great answer! These lengthy answers are extremely useful and also shows your genuine passion to help people. I'm truly grateful for you and other contributors!

It seems both you and @matroska agree on Trad as a viable choice.

Would you recommend 1.3L version? It appears to be more affordable. 

What kind of an amount should be set aside for essential repairs after the purchase?

And on annual basis, what kind of an amount should I be allocating for repairs under NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. (I'm perfectly aware this question doesn't warrant an exact answer, but any useful input is appreciated). 

What could be the most costly repair for a car? 

Since you point out the importance of having working knowledge of small niggles, would you be able to list the most common ones? (To save your time, a list is good enough as I will go ahead and do research on the respective topic. )

Thanks again!

[iRage]

7 hours ago, wellball said:

Would you recommend 1.3L version?

Try to get the 1.5. Contrary to popular belief the 1.3 is not necessarily tons more fuel efficient than the 1.5L. Also..with the 1.5L you get more trim level options (i.e. more features).

Depends on the condition of the car...at the very least you should budget to change the timing belt, do a complete fluid change (engine, transmission, brake, clutch, cooling fluid) and simple things like change the spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter, etc... plus get the brakes inspected and maybe even change the brake pads. Again depending on the condition of the car you may additionally have to change tires, suspension components, attend to rust, electronics, etc.... The latter items are things you can usually use to negotiate on the price (within reason !). Plus depending on the body condition you may have to attend to things like rust, etc...Considering the state of the economy I have no idea how much it would cost now...so it can be anything from 200 - 300 thousand just for the basics ? Maybe someone in the country can advice on that.

So the key is to get the car in the best possible condition for your budget. Please take it to a place like car checks or even the agents and get a complete inspection done. If you go to a place like car checks you will get a report saying things like a bolt under neath the car is rusted and that the wiper arm has lost paint...these are to be expected in 30+ year old car but it is better to know all these little things than not knowing anything at all.

As for what can cost the most...well...again, considering the price of things now everything can cost a lot.  

[iRage]

More on the suspension...here is the rear suspension of the E80 Corolla

Here is the rear suspension of the B11 Sunny

See how the rear arms are connected ? Red circles in the Sunny (reverse A frames) and the blue circles in the Corolla ? Because of how the arms are mounted the way the wheel goes up and down with humps/bumps is different. The way that it is mounted in the Sunny makes the rear bounce. It is a method that is used in old rear wheel drive cars that have a solid rear axle.

Now..here is the suspension in the B12 Sunny. As you can see (purple circles) they adopted the same type of suspension control arms as the E80 Corolla (because the trailing arm reverse A-frame sucked).

Edited May 2, 2023 by iRage

[matroska]

13 hours ago, iRage said:

If presented with a Corolla (E80) and a Sunny (B11) in similar condition...go with the Corolla.

Actually I agree with this - and the fact that the E80 is the better car overall. But what I considered when recommending the B11 was that for one - there are very very few E80's out there for sale, even less when it comes to the AE81 (1.5 L Version) OP has better chance of sourcing an HB11 with a 1.5 L E15 motor and 5 speed gear box - simply based on numbers and availability - a quick look at the classifieds might probably verify this. Secondly while drive train parts will be available for the very common 2E engine, body parts are becoming increasingly difficult to source for Toyota's of this vintage (the KE wagon is an exception- I had a really tough time sourcing indicator lenses for the starlet) comparatively there are more body parts availability for the B11 (for instance indicator lenses,lights etc) 

 

9 hours ago, wellball said:

Would you recommend 1.3L version? It appears to be more affordable. 

The 1.3 Version of the Trad is more affordable since there is a considerable disparity between the 'demand' for the two models. The 1.3 comes with an E13S which was like the successor of the E13 -and gave a marginally better output than the E13. (correct me if I'm wrong irage) most 1.3's were basic models, no tacho, 4 forward gears, with the least creature comforts. Due to this the 1.3 is not sought after. However this would mean that you can probably get a decent 1.3 Trad for a fair price. But then again if you're a new driver you'll like to drive a car with a bit more power and torque - or else if you spend your time pushing a tiny engine to it's limits you might just get fedup with it. 

1 hour ago, iRage said:

you may have to attend to things like rust, etc...Considering the state of the economy I have no idea how much it would cost now...so it can be anything from 200 - 300 thousand just for the basics ? Maybe someone in the country can advice on that.

A full resto would cost at least half a mill -  a decent paint job attending the bits of rust here and there will cost 200K minimum. if there's corroded floor boards etc that will go up. 

[matroska]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Here is the rear suspension of the B11 Sunny

BTW irage, a little OT here - but is this a  scan of one of the physical brochures you have or did you get this off the interwebs? 

[iRage]

7 hours ago, matroska said:

But what I considered when recommending the B11 was that for one - there are very very few E80's out there for sale, even less when it comes to the AE81 (1.5 L Version) OP has better chance of sourcing an HB11 with a 1.5 L E15 motor and 5 speed gear box

Hmmm...sad but might be true  

7 hours ago, matroska said:

Secondly while drive train parts will be available for the very common 2E engine, body parts are becoming increasingly difficult to source for Toyota's of this vintage (the KE wagon is an exception- I had a really tough time sourcing indicator lenses for the starlet) comparatively there are more body parts availability for the B11 (for instance indicator lenses, lights etc) 

Actually there are plenty of reproduction parts for the E80 (due to its popularity in the South East Asian car scene). Only hitch is in SL..,.what is available are the reproductions for the KE72 as that is where the demand seems to be (plenty of cars around and plenty of people wanting to restore or rice them). Forget about the Starlet. You might as well buy an entire car when you need to find lights and stuff for that.

7 hours ago, matroska said:

The 1.3 comes with an E13S which was like the successor of the E13 -and gave a marginally better output than the E13

Yes...from the lower 60s it bumped up to the upper 60s.

 

7 hours ago, matroska said:

1.3's were basic models, no tacho, 4 forward gears,

A lot of the 1.3 were brand new agent imports. Quite a few of the ministries (including the police) and private companies got loads of these for their management. Most of the other 1.3s were Japanese market imports of low grades (DX, GL and EX trim grades). The export model 1.3s had an interesting mix of accessories (the lowest grade was equivalent to the EX Saloon and some had RPM meters as well).

7 hours ago, matroska said:

A full resto would cost at least half a mill -  a decent paint job attending the bits of rust here and there will cost 200K minimum. if there's corroded floor boards etc that will go up. 

So basically...changing spark plugs, brake pads, filters, fluids and timing and other belts would run to about 250K  plus depending on body, suspension, etc...it can add up to another 300-400K ? 

7 hours ago, matroska said:

but is this a  scan of one of the physical brochures you have or did you get this off the interwebs

The B11 is off the internet. Other two are scans.

[matroska]

2 hours ago, iRage said:

So basically...changing spark plugs, brake pads, filters, fluids and timing and other belts would run to about 250K  plus depending on body, suspension, etc...it can add up to another 300-400K ? 

No no - I meant 200 K minimum for sorting out rust etc and a paint job - again it depends on the color etc as well. If you do a proper paint job it will cost 250 minimum. 

Consumables would not amount to that much I'd go with less than 100K for all that (brake pads and filters cost me about 60,000 for the Civic so much less for a retro) but then other stuff like batteries and tyres are quite expensive. Nowadays simple consumables like that also determine the price of older cars - specially tyres which are clearly visible. Even if OP does not have to do painting/corrosion fixing etc he will still need a 100,000 buffer.( Plugs, filters, fluids - brake, gear oil and of course service costs ) 

[wellball]

15 hours ago, iRage said:

More on the suspension...here is the rear suspension of the E80 Corolla

Here is the rear suspension of the B11 Sunny

See how the rear arms are connected ? Red circles in the Sunny (reverse A frames) and the blue circles in the Corolla ? Because of how the arms are mounted the way the wheel goes up and down with humps/bumps is different. The way that it is mounted in the Sunny makes the rear bounce. It is a method that is used in old rear wheel drive cars that have a solid rear axle.

Now..here is the suspension in the B12 Sunny. As you can see (purple circles) they adopted the same type of suspension control arms as the E80 Corolla (because the trailing arm reverse A-frame sucked).

Thank you so much @iRage for the great answer! Appreciate the effort with scans also. Truly feel grateful!

[wellball]

13 hours ago, matroska said:

Actually I agree with this - and the fact that the E80 is the better car overall. But what I considered when recommending the B11 was that for one - there are very very few E80's out there for sale, even less when it comes to the AE81 (1.5 L Version) OP has better chance of sourcing an HB11 with a 1.5 L E15 motor and 5 speed gear box - simply based on numbers and availability - a quick look at the classifieds might probably verify this. Secondly while drive train parts will be available for the very common 2E engine, body parts are becoming increasingly difficult to source for Toyota's of this vintage (the KE wagon is an exception- I had a really tough time sourcing indicator lenses for the starlet) comparatively there are more body parts availability for the B11 (for instance indicator lenses,lights etc) 

 

The 1.3 Version of the Trad is more affordable since there is a considerable disparity between the 'demand' for the two models. The 1.3 comes with an E13S which was like the successor of the E13 -and gave a marginally better output than the E13. (correct me if I'm wrong irage) most 1.3's were basic models, no tacho, 4 forward gears, with the least creature comforts. Due to this the 1.3 is not sought after. However this would mean that you can probably get a decent 1.3 Trad for a fair price. But then again if you're a new driver you'll like to drive a car with a bit more power and torque - or else if you spend your time pushing a tiny engine to it's limits you might just get fedup with it. 

A full resto would cost at least half a mill -  a decent paint job attending the bits of rust here and there will cost 200K minimum. if there's corroded floor boards etc that will go up. 

Thanks @matroska . Again a quality answer! It appears 1.5L is the better choice from what you have said.