Body-permits And Illegal Imports

[VWvortex]

I've been looking around for a Land cruiser LJ 79, and found a lot of them brought down on body permits. Im sure most of you have seen the 32-**** land cruisers around. These are ones with new bodies brought down on permits (legally)

Now the catch is that the permit is for a body. But these jeeps have the orignal chassis in place as well, with a new chassis number fixed on them ( ex: chassis number out of a jeep bought from a police auction).

From what i have gathered this is illegal, as you cannot replace the chassis.

Can anyone who knows the legal nitty gritty please comment.

thanks!

Edited June 25, 2007 by VWvortex

[madmax]

As you have mentioned the permit is only valid for the body. But they actually end up fixing the complete new chassis with the old number part from the old vehicle. Even though it might sound illiegal at first, in a court of law it can be argued otherwise.

There is no restriction for you to repair the chassis as long as it is kept to the same spec as the orginal reg docs, and there's no such thing called a chassis permit. So you can get part from a new chassis and fix your old one up. One can argue the ONLY part that could be rescued from the old chassis is the part with the chassis no.

This scenario is known as 'Theseus paradox', coming from greeek history or something (refer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus this will help you understand it).

So if the body permit docs are in order and the vehicle has been inspected and certified by RMV after fixing it up, you should be safe. Our corporate lawyer owns one of these jeeps, and he explained to me the whole legal scenario I mentioned above.

Also don't be scared of cops who try to question you, they have no right to do anything until it is proven in court that the vehicle is not legit.

[Pericles]

This scenario is known as 'Theseus paradox', coming from greeek history or something (refer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus this will help you understand it).

I've been using the same arguement on all these Honda boys all this time without knowing there was a formal name for it

[xXx]

But they actually end up fixing the complete new chassis with the old number part from the old vehicle.

madmax can you please explain this a bit more. are you saing they chop a part of the new chassis and add it to the old chassis???

[madmax]

Otherway round, they cut the VIN part off the old chassis and weld it to the new chassis

[lakshank]

is this legal...

[The Don]

I think the importation of a chassy of a vehicle is illegal,

this is so that vehicles could not be bought in parts to evade customs duties, so that is the basis under which the prosecution would argue against madmax's legal officers position,

since there is no case law on this matter (if there is please do tell me) we are not sure which argument the courts will be willing to accept

[lakshank]

but i have seen in the kurunegala side spare parts people have brought the complete vehicles, i dont know how. especially the land cruiser jeeps and pajeros..

Appearantly you just need a set of wheels to drive it...chasis is there and all the body parts are fixed and completed with the cabin.. dumping an engine in is not a big deal...so here goes a jeep with no reg no. now i understand why people buy the thrashed police jeeps.

[The Don]

but i have seen in the kurunegala side spare parts people have brought the complete vehicles, i dont know how. especially the land cruiser jeeps and pajeros..

Appearantly you just need a set of wheels to drive it...chasis is there and all the body parts are fixed and completed with the cabin.. dumping an engine in is not a big deal...so here goes a jeep with no reg no. now i understand why people buy the thrashed police jeeps.

Ha ha now you see how it works, they bring the parts in containers, but mostly in seperate containers mixed with other parts. They buy these thrashed jeeps for the books and also to get the body permits

I mean those jeeps go for unbelievable sums of money !! even I didnt understand at first ....

[fuzzo]

there is a small correction. there was chassis permits issued for people to bring down the chassis. this is how the new chassis were brought in to fix to the new body.

as far as this being legal or not, its totally upto you. technically it's not legal as you are getting a newer vehicle on a old vehicles plates. but if done properly... then there is no way to refute it's legality. ie all the necessary numbers match up.

[Pericles]

Ha ha now you see how it works, they bring the parts in containers, but mostly in seperate containers mixed with other parts. They buy these thrashed jeeps for the books and also to get the body permits

I mean those jeeps go for unbelievable sums of money !! even I didnt understand at first ....

Its not that easy to get body permits tho man. They scrutinze alot before granting permits, coz now they know of this loophole.

[The Don]

there is a small correction. there was chassis permits issued for people to bring down the chassis. this is how the new chassis were brought in to fix to the new body.

as far as this being legal or not, its totally upto you. technically it's not legal as you are getting a newer vehicle on a old vehicles plates. but if done properly... then there is no way to refute it's legality. ie all the necessary numbers match up.

i didn't know that sorry Fuzzo,

Actually technically its not up to us, what is legal and what is not is to be decided by the courts on a relevant case and if we are to go further its to be decided by parliment which makes the laws

But having said that I can honestly tell you there are a few vehicles out there which are so well done nobody would be able to discover their origins he he, in this case the chassy number was engraved on to the chassy

[The Don]

Its not that easy to get body permits tho man. They scrutinze alot before granting permits, coz now they know of this loophole.

Yes peri,

From what I have been told, at first getting body permits was very easy, to the point they were showing the same vehicle and getting multiple body permits belive it or not, then they figured this out and then imposed new regulations requiring photographs etc though it was still going on,

I mean there was a time that they were somehow getting new books issued for these vehicles, now they need some sort of a book and then they get somebody to change the entry at the RMV to match the new vehicle, at least this was what was going on in 2004, things would have changed in the last 3 years.

[VWvortex]

Thanks everyone! That info was very helpfull

[xXx]

But having said that I can honestly tell you there are a few vehicles out there which are so well done nobody would be able to discover their origins he he, in this case the chassy number was engraved on to the chassy

actually engraving or changing the chassis number is one of the oldest scams in the industry.

regarding what Madmax said yesterday isn't joining the old chassis with the new one very similar to the cut n butt scam? if so how come its legal????

[fuzzo]

it's not really cut and butt coz the vehicle comes into the island as a whole... it's only the part on the chassis containing the numbers which is actually cut out and butt into the new chassis.

like others said, if done properly, there is no way to catch it.

on another note, i saw a pajero (intercooler model) running with 56- plates...

[Tikiri]

Hi all, I have got 2 old cars which I am trying to restore badly corroded. I have found complete cars overseas of identical model and acquiring them is far cheaper than cost of the tinkering , quality out put and time. Can I apply for a permit to import the body. If so where should I go to apply and what's the procedure like.

Could some one help explaining, tks, Tikiri

Edited June 26, 2007 by Tikiri

[Supra_Natural]

Hi all, I have got 2 old cars which I am trying to restore badly corroded. I have found complete cars overseas of identical model and acquiring them is far cheaper than cost of the tinkering , quality out put and time. Can I apply for a permit to import the body. If so where should I go to apply and what's the procedure like.

Could some one help explaining, tks, Tikiri

this is OT machan, but if you dont mind, what are these cars?

[The Don]

Hi all, I have got 2 old cars which I am trying to restore badly corroded. I have found complete cars overseas of identical model and acquiring them is far cheaper than cost of the tinkering , quality out put and time. Can I apply for a permit to import the body. If so where should I go to apply and what's the procedure like.

Could some one help explaining, tks, Tikiri

Will tell u the little I know, I think you apply at the divisional secretariat, you need to provide them evidence of your need to import a body (photographs etc) and apply for the permit, maybe somebody else can shed more light on this, sorry Tikiri thats the limit of my knowledge

[miniace]

Good explanation by Madmax.But the reality is that Govt stopped issuing body-permits recently. Only very few cases entertained since then and them are taken case by case basis. Issuing and authorizing chassis permits are completely stopped, Only a very few chassis permits were ever issued .one I know issued to late 90s bomb victims jeep. Even that was issued after huge battle.

Most of the countries jeeps affix new bodies based on permits issued for Tsunami affected vehicles.The numbers issued passed 1000.

What ever the case may be you can’t escape being stopped by special Police team for checks.If relevant docs are not in possession, the vehicles are sent for Govt analysis’s examinations. Following number series are common victims.

Land cruiser BJ70s in the region of 32 sri 35** ex police

Land cruiser BJ70&75/KZJs in the region of 32 sri 40** and 44** ex police

Land Rovers LR90s in the region of 32 sri 44** ex police

Isuzu bighorns G80 /UBS 69s in 32 -7*** region

Mitsubishi Pajero flat roofs in registrations before 32 sri 57**

Nissan Patrol Y60 s in region of 32 sri 08**

MINIACE

[The Don]

Yes, I think not many flat roof pajero's made it to SL originally, so an unspecified number of flat roofs running are ones which have at they very least new bodies on them.

I guess if you have the relevant documentation coming with the vehicle, ones with new bodies must be quite good buys considering a lot of ones with original bodies have suffered a lot of corrosion, and most of the time you get new updated interior with the new bodies as well,

I guess everybody should be careful when purchasing old SUV's at least ones with old number on them.

But mini a lot of bodies or parts of bodies are imported for mini's as well for obvious reasons to combat corrosion, I know because of the way mini's are made it is very easy to bolt on new body parts, but what is the legal position on this? and has any mini owners had any issues with the cops or the authorities ?

The Don

[Tikiri]

this is OT machan, but if you dont mind, what are these cars?

Hi, OT will pay. MG Magnette and Merc 280 S, I also got a Zepher Mark 11 which I started restoring, tks

[milindu]

Hi, OT will pay. MG Magnette and Merc 280 S, I also got a Zepher Mark 11 which I started restoring, tks

What model is the 280s? I run a 108 (1972).

[VWvortex]

What ever the case may be you can’t escape being stopped by special Police team for checks.If relevant docs are not in possession, the vehicles are sent for Govt analysis’s examinations. Following number series are common victims.

MINIACE

Miniace,

What are the Relevent documents you are refering to here? I found a vehicle for which the owner has a body permit, and all the relevent import documents for the body+ receipts for payments made to customs. It has also been weighed by RMV and documents updated with the new information. Anything in particular i should check further on?

Thanks!

Edited June 28, 2007 by VWvortex

[Tikiri]

What model is the 280s? I run a 108 (1972).

Hi, It's a 116. SO, whats the process for the permits. tks