Xenon Light

[Hungry_Minder]

Hi,

Last weekend I have fixed xenon headlights of my mitsubishi cb2a.

I had a halogen head lights (60W) and wanted to fix xenon lights.

so then I have fixed 90W xenon lights.

But now when I am driving in the night I am feeling that its not good like

halogen one.I mean I am not satisfied with the light it has.

Thats not enough and again i have gone to the place where I bought it

and told them.Then they have adjested it and said now ok.

But unfortunalty still same.I cant see the road clearly even.

You guys have an experiecne with this.what could be the reason?

I am not sure and I am hoping to go for previous halegon lights

and through away this xenon lights

Pls comment your suggessions

Thanks

Edited November 9, 2009 by Hungry_Minder

[JAFF]

hi there,

my bro faced the same problem in his carina. then he adjusted the headlights in mag city & now its perfect

if u can go to mag city and adjust your headlights. they balance it perfectly..

[Ripper]

  Hungry_Minder said:

Hi,

Last weekend I have fixed xenon headlights of my mitsubishi cb2a.

I had a halogen head lights (60W) and wanted to fix xenon lights.

so then I have fixed 90W xenon lights.

But now when I am driving in the night I am feeling that its not good like

halogen one.I mean I am not satisfied with the light it has.

Thats not enough and again i have gone to the place where I bought it

and told them.Then they have adjested it and said now ok.

But unfortunalty still same.I cant see the road clearly even.

You guys have an experiecne with this.what could be the reason?

I am not sure and I am hoping to go for previous halegon lights

and through away this xenon lights

Pls comment your suggessions

Thanks

well what's the color temp range of your xenon's????

halos normally peak up around 4000k and slightly more...4200k max sorta...

xenon's usually start around this temp and go all the way upto about 8000k... which almost like a purple color...

some folks put in 6000k and up xenons to look cool but at the cost of visibility...

in my limited experience with these... 6000k is the absolute max you should go without severely compromising the visibility...

and another one to check is the brand/quality of bulbs used!

you get lotsa so called xenons that are actually not xenon filled proper xenon bulbs...

[Hungry_Minder]

  Ripper said:

well what's the color temp range of your xenon's????

halos normally peak up around 4000k and slightly more...4200k max sorta...

xenon's usually start around this temp and go all the way upto about 8000k... which almost like a purple color...

some folks put in 6000k and up xenons to look cool but at the cost of visibility...

in my limited experience with these... 6000k is the absolute max you should go without severely compromising the visibility...

and another one to check is the brand/quality of bulbs used!

you get lotsa so called xenons that are actually not xenon filled proper xenon bulbs...

Hi I am really not sure about the color range and I have bought and fixed this

from one of very famouse vehicle spare parts and security shop in Sri Lanka.

So cannot think they have used bad quality bulbs and the cost was around Rs.760/=

in that box i could able to find this - H4 12V 100/90W

Color is white

Thanks

[terrabytetango]

Read my post in Ruslan's reply below. I've described in detail how I fitted an HID kit into my vehicle.

Edited November 9, 2009 by terrabytetango

[Ripper]

  Hungry_Minder said:

Hi I am really not sure about the color range and I have bought and fixed this

from one of very famouse vehicle spare parts and security shop in Sri Lanka.

So cannot think they have used bad quality bulbs and the cost was around Rs.760/=

in that box i could able to find this - H4 12V 100/90W

Color is white

Thanks

are the bulbs coated "blue" to simulate "xenon" look?

if that's the case it's highly unlikely they are true xenons...

especially with the pricing you've mentioned... a set of PIAA's will set you back about 8k-10k bought online...

and i can vouch for their quality cos i got those in my bike and they out perform most halogens anyday

you can get a rough idea about the color range when the bulbs light up...

the yellow-white is more towards 4000k and as the color gets white and then blue... the temp range goes up...

ie... 6000k tend to be like an ice blue and beyond that it gets more bluish and then purple...

[Ruslan]

  Hungry_Minder said:

Hi I am really not sure about the color range and I have bought and fixed this

from one of very famouse vehicle spare parts and security shop in Sri Lanka.

So cannot think they have used bad quality bulbs and the cost was around Rs.760/=

in that box i could able to find this - H4 12V 100/90W

Color is white

Thanks

Those are not Xenons. those are cheapos with blue coated film around. we have discussed this earlier as well.

http://forum.autolanka.com/index.php?s...50&hl=xenon

[Ripper]

  Quote

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=73986

"The xenon - krypton - halogen filled (tungsten hot-wire) lamps all have similar performance....3,200 K color and 20-25 lumens per watt

The metal-halide HID lamps (which also use small amount of xenon) are the common HID lamps used on newer car headlamps, a few high-end hand-held lights and industrial-commercial lighting....very effiecient at 80+ lumens per watt and 4,500 - 6,500 K color

The "pure" xenon short-arc lamps are used in stage lighting (although more and more use specialized metal-halide HID now) theatre projectors and other optical path applications that need a very compact light source that can be easily focused. typically 25-40 lumens per watt at 6,000 K

Xenon is also used in long-arc lamps..the common flash bulb and graphic arts illumination (pulsed xenon)

The people that market cheap "xenon plasma" (actually blue tinted halogen) bulbs for kids that want that cool blue headlamp look add to the confusion"

[terrabytetango]

Great post Ripper, hopefully this will educate our automotive community on the subtle nuances of Xenon based lighting.

[MkX]

  Hungry_Minder said:

Hi,

Last weekend I have fixed xenon headlights of my mitsubishi cb2a.

I had a halogen head lights (60W) and wanted to fix xenon lights.

so then I have fixed 90W xenon lights.

As others pointed i think you have fitted blue coloured normal halgons not original Xenons. Does your vehicle come with original Xenon installed, if not you have to do a conversion, reffer the privious thread.

And I strongly adivse you to go back you original 60W lights as 90W buld will most likely to burn your wires / sockets due higher temperature. Normal holders and wires will not be able to take heat emits from 90W light.

Even I don't recommend 60W blue coated that sold as Xenons. As I had experience one of my holder got melted due to heat and I had to replace the holder. Those lights use more power than it claims.

Edited November 9, 2009 by MkX

[Hungry_Minder]

  MkX said:

As others pointed i think you have fitted blue coloured normal halgons not original Xenons. D+oes your vehicle come with original Xenon intelled, if not you have to do a conversion, reffer the privious thread.

And I strongly adivse you to go back you original 60W lights as 90W buld will most likely to burn your wires / sockets due higher temperature. Normal holders and wires will not be able to take heat emits from 90W light.

Even I don't recommend 60W blue coated that sold as Xenons. As I had experience one of my holder got melted due to heat and I had to replace the holder. Those lights use more power than it claims.

hmmmmm

that means they have given me normal blue color halegons.

But this is not fair them to cheat people like this

bcz they are the one who are a famouse security system installation company for vehicles

I have noticed that bulb is heating.you guys are correct

anyway thanks guys for your replies

[MkX]

  Hungry_Minder said:

hmmmmm

that means they have given me normal blue color halegons.

But this is not fair them to cheat people like this

bcz they are the one who are a famouse security system installation company for vehicles

I have noticed that bulb is heating.you guys are correct

anyway thanks guys for your replies

See the possiblity of exchanging 90W bulbs with 60W without extra payment alteast.

[Hungry_Minder]

  MkX said:

See the possiblity of exchanging 90W bulbs with 60W without extra payment alteast.

Do you think that 60W one will be ok.I mean the light

[Ruslan]

  Hungry_Minder said:

Do you think that 60W one will be ok.I mean the light

55/60W would be ok as long as it doesn't contain any blue tint around. and try to stick with proper brand like ripper said.

[VVTi]

The XENON Headlight Issue

by Jefferey F. Knox

In recent years the use of xenon headlights has increased significantly. Many people, myself included, find them to be very uncomfortable and terrible glare sources. Many people have argued vehemently that the reason for this is that they produce two to three times the light of a halogen headlight and that increased lumen output is the cause of the problem. Well, as with many lighting ordinances, this headlight glare discussion tries to assign a component attribute (lamp lumen output) to a systems (glare) problem.

First, let me address some of the misleading numbers. The lamps with color temperatures of 5400 Kelvin and 6000 Kelvin (no degrees - Kelvin is an absolute scale) are for lamps categorized and labeled as DR lamps. The DR stands for Daytime Running lamps - these lamps are not approved for nighttime usage. The xenon lamps that are approved for nighttime use all have a color temperature of 4100 Kelvin - not too far from metal halide sources. These lamps are rated at 3200 lumens. While some older halogen headlights produce around 1000 lumens most of the newer sealed beam lamps have a significantly higher lumen output. Both of my cars use H7 lamps that produce 1500+ lumens.

Next, lets address the glare issue, but before we can understand glare we must first understand a few technical properties of light.

The purpose of a lamp is to convert electrical energy into luminous flux (light). Luminous flux is quantified by the unit known as a lumen. We do not see raw lumens, in fact we cannot see light until it interacts with a surface or material and then what we see is the light reflected, transmitted or generated by the surface. In the case of a bare lamp what we see is the filament, plasma, or the lamp envelope. Luminous intensity is defined as the amount of luminous flux (lumens) produced in a given direction - the unit for luminous intensity is the candela (lumens per steradian, sometimes called candlepower). Luminous intensity indicates the ability of a light source to produce illumination in a given direction. The light we actually see is known as luminance (brightness) which is the luminous intensity per projected area off a surface - this is quantified with the unit of the footlambert which is a directionally dependent unit. As the direction of view changes so can / does the luminance of a surface. Everyone has experienced this with a glossy magazine and a downlight. There is an angle between the light source and the magazine that makes it very difficult to see the page because it is too luminous (bright), but if you tilt the magazine, effectively changing the viewing angle, the page becomes visible.

The technical definition of glare implies very high contrast. Contrast is defined as the (luminance of the task (source) minus the luminance of the background) divided by the luminance of the background. This is basically a ratio of how bright the source or surface is when compared to the background it is viewed against. There are two ways to control glare. One is to decrease the luminance (brightness) of the source. The second is to increase the luminance (brightness) of the background. As an example consider the glare from headlights during the daytime versus the glare from the same headlights on an unlighted street at night.

Now to the headlight issue itself. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 and the Society of Automotive Engineers Specification J2009 regulate the design of automobile lighting systems. These documents state a maximum candlepower that a headlight may produce above horizontal. This maximum candlepower is regardless of the source. This means that a xenon headlight can produce no more luminous intensity above horizontal than can a halogen headlight. If we assume the area of a headlight reflector system is equal regardless of the source then the luminance of a headlight viewed from above horizontal can be no higher with a xenon source than a halogen source. Thus the 'glare' from a xenon system cannot be higher than the glare from a halogen system. 'Where are all those extra lumens produced by a xenon lamp' you might ask? The headlight reflector system directs them below horizontal where they will be useful in lighting the roadway surface. A xenon headlight is much more luminous than a halogen system when viewed from below horizontal. This explains why truck/SUV headlights appear much brighter when viewed from a passenger vehicle regardless of source - the horizontal plane passing through the truck headlights is higher than the your eyes when seated in a car, thus you are viewing the unrestricted luminous intensity zone below horizontal. I find trucks or SUV's with xenon headlights are almost blinding. Trucks and SUV's with halogens are bad enough.

I don't believe that the discomfort associated with xenon headlights has anything to do with them being more glary than halogen headlights because mathematically they aren't. Why do we feel discomfort from xenon headlights - deductive reasoning indicates that it must be the spectral power distribution of the source - what else is left? Short wavelengths (blue) of light are more energetic than longer wavelengths (red). Ultraviolet light is much more damaging to pigment and tissue than infrared light.

[VVTi]

Add to this, I read somewhere that changing only the bulbs in standard cars actually is detrimental to night driving for both the driver and the oncoming cars as the lens setup that comes stock in many cars cannot focus the intense light energy, and creates a scatter effect.

In many ways, considering the night driving conditions in Sri Lanka, I am of the opinion to stick with stock Head Lights. We have too many people not following night driving etiquette with out having more people with badly installed HID bulbs creating more issues.

Lets learn to dip our headlights at oncoming cars or when following other cars BEFORE we install blinding lights.

[Jayathu]

  VVTi said:

Lets learn to dip our headlights at oncoming cars or when following other cars BEFORE we install blinding lights.

For some reason, this seems the most difficult thing for many people to do.. Was cursing all these buggers last night while driving along the Galle road in a total deluge. It is OK to have all your lights ON if the visibility is low, but having them in full glare at the on coming traffic is a big NO NO.. Some people never learn I guess, until some big truck or something smashes your face due to blinding caused by your own head lights..

[Ripper]

  VVTi said:

Add to this, I read somewhere that changing only the bulbs in standard cars actually is detrimental to night driving for both the driver and the oncoming cars as the lens setup that comes stock in many cars cannot focus the intense light energy, and creates a scatter effect.

In many ways, considering the night driving conditions in Sri Lanka, I am of the opinion to stick with stock Head Lights. We have too many people not following night driving etiquette with out having more people with badly installed HID bulbs creating more issues.

Lets learn to dip our headlights at oncoming cars or when following other cars BEFORE we install blinding lights.

oh yeah! this is so true!!!!

so many not so intelligent folks have HID's on their standard light housings nowadays cos the HID kit prices have comedown drastically....

you see the odd small car with HID's on full blast and doing a mere 30-40

i can understand one needing high beams while going fast but our idiots use their fancy looking HID's on high beam just for the kick of it...even when they are driving slow and l it up areas

At one point i was considering to install HID's myself as auxiliary lights aimed a little high just to return the favor even at the back cos some SUV morons come from behind with heads on and all your mirrors just go white taking your eye out with it...

Imagine this coupled up with our new highways and higher speeds?????

[terrabytetango]

In my defence, I have adjusted the lights such that the glare is minimal even to smaller cars like the AK12 March. I've not had one person flash at me when I drive with low beams. However when idiots with head lamps and fogs a blazing come at me from the opposite, I flick on my high beams and show them I mean business. The effect is very reassuring, especially with those who deem it cool to forego low beams altogether and simply drive on park and fog lights.

[Ripper]

  MkX said:

As others pointed i think you have fitted blue coloured normal halgons not original Xenons. Does your vehicle come with original Xenon installed, if not you have to do a conversion, reffer the privious thread.

And I strongly adivse you to go back you original 60W lights as 90W buld will most likely to burn your wires / sockets due higher temperature. Normal holders and wires will not be able to take heat emits from 90W light.

Even I don't recommend 60W blue coated that sold as Xenons. As I had experience one of my holder got melted due to heat and I had to replace the holder. Those lights use more power than it claims.

At present i'm running standard halogen Narva's...90/100 on stock wiring and housing...without any issues so far...

I've been running the setup for about a good 3 years now!

i think "sharkster" is also running simillar setup on his stock wiring if i'm not wrong!

so i suppose some stock car setups can handle the extra heat...

[terrabytetango]

Ripper, a friend of mine with a K10 melted the plastic trim around the lamp housings as a result of fitting 100/90W bulbs.

[mistaken_ID]

  Ruslan said:

Those are not Xenons. those are cheapos with blue coated film around. we have discussed this earlier as well.

http://forum.autolanka.com/index.php?s...50&hl=xenon

Agree those are not Xenons... they are fake bulbs with a blue tint on it. AFAIK Xenon bulbs consume around 35W(correct me if im wrong)..

and cost u alot. What i did was bought a couple of Osram Cool Blue bulbs. its 4000k and cost me around 2500 for both. I think thats the cheapest quality upgarde in town... ( correct me if im wrong)

[MkX]

  Ripper said:

At present i'm running standard halogen Narva's...90/100 on stock wiring and housing...without any issues so far...

I've been running the setup for about a good 3 years now!

i think "sharkster" is also running simillar setup on his stock wiring if i'm not wrong!

so i suppose some stock car setups can handle the extra heat...

  Quote

Ripper, a friend of mine with a K10 melted the plastic trim around the lamp housings as a result of fitting 100/90W bulbs.

Yes I think if you use good quality 90W bulbs instead of 60W some of them can handle the heat.

But if you use blue tint 60W light these light must use some extra power to give enough visibility through the dark blue tinted glass.

[shanX]

  mistaken_ID said:

Agree those are not Xenons... they are fake bulbs with a blue tint on it. AFAIK Xenon bulbs consume around 35W(correct me if im wrong)..

and cost u alot. What i did was bought a couple of Osram Cool Blue bulbs. its 4000k and cost me around 2500 for both. I think thats the cheapest quality upgarde in town... ( correct me if im wrong)

so how were the osrams, worth it?

[Bugatti]

  Ripper said:

At present i'm running standard halogen Narva's...90/100 on stock wiring and housing...without any issues so far...

I've been running the setup for about a good 3 years now!

i think "sharkster" is also running simillar setup on his stock wiring if i'm not wrong!

so i suppose some stock car setups can handle the extra heat...

I too have been using Narva 100/90 4700K for past three years.. no issues at all. May be certain cars are not equipped to handle the extra load.

[Ruslan]

  Bugatti said:

I too have been using Narva 100/90 4700K for past three years.. no issues at all. May be certain cars are not equipped to handle the extra load.

Maybe they produce 100/90W light output not the heat. just like our household CFL bulbs. and Glass lamp housings are more capable of handling high heat than their plastic counterpart.

  Quote

AFAIK Xenon bulbs consume around 35W

Those are HID bulbs machan. bulbs using electric arc to produce light at high voltage (just like Camera flashers, CFL bulbs, Tube lights etc). Ballast used for converting standard DC 12V into high voltage.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Ruslan