Turbos And Turbocharging

[Killer-B]

Hey guys,

First of all, I gotta say that I'm not going to fit in a turbocharger into my car anytime soon, but thought of putting up this topic since I was wondering what it would be like to turbocharge my engine and I even had some ideas about this lately. These are some of my many questions about turbos and turbocharging :

1. How much in general would a turbocharger cost? including all the other components (with the intercooler, BOV, and any necessary piping etc.)

2. Can you turbocharge any engine,say my 1.3L? or would I be better off borrowing a engine from a starlet GT turbo?

3. How would fuel consumption be affected?

4. What modifications might be needed for the wiring, dashboard, exhaust, engine and other places where necessary?

I apologize for asking too many questions but then guess this thread would be useful to fellow members as well, and feel free to leave a reply and help me with these matters

[BLu3HaZe]

Well there was guy I knew that made his normal 1.3L Starlet into a turbo, but spent a lot on it and the resale value became less. If that's not a problem, afaik yes you can fix a turbo to your engine.

Exhaust, you'd need a manifold for the turbo and a downpipe to fit it too. Engine, you may have to do something about any worn parts. And obviously a retune.

Fuel consumption would generally be worse, you got more back pressure too.

Care to add your questions here too? It's an FAQ after all, could do with more info. I didn't have time to write anymore.

Edited October 4, 2010 by BLu3HaZe

[Crazy Life]

Hey guys,

First of all, I gotta say that I'm not going to fit in a turbocharger into my car anytime soon, but thought of putting up this topic since I was wondering what it would be like to turbocharge my engine and I even had some ideas about this lately. These are some of my many questions about turbos and turbocharging :

1. How much in general would a turbocharger cost? including all the other components (with the intercooler, BOV, and any necessary piping etc.)

2. Can you turbocharge any engine,say my 1.3L? or would I be better off borrowing a engine from a starlet GT turbo?

3. How would fuel consumption be affected?

4. What modifications might be needed for the wiring, dashboard, exhaust, engine and other places where necessary?

I apologize for asking too many questions but then guess this thread would be useful to fellow members as well, and feel free to leave a reply and help me with these matters

1.Cheapest is to find a used turbo,but if you can spare money on turbo,go for a brand new/hybrid turbo.really worth the extra money you pay for.so its your choice!.

For piping I can recommend Sacha,he's the a guru in the field.and I personally recommend his work cz I got my turbo kit from him,very nice guy!

Other bits & pieces you can visit rhdjapan,tm developments & finally ebay.

2.It's better if you can get a GT Turbo engine,so you can just swap the engine straight away,or else you'l need.

# Thermostat housing

# 4E-FTE sump with oil feed pick up+dip stick(dip stick is not a must,but good if you can find)

# if you are planing to use the standard CT9 turbo,get the down pipe,or else go for the WEPR kit.

# P/S pump,bracket

# Forged internals(pistons,con rods,etc... ; if you plan to go all the way up to the ultimate EP91)

# Oil filter relocater ,that's all I can remember atm,best thing is to google it or visit TGTT.

3.Depends on the boost you run,more boost=more fuel,so depends on your driving.

4.If you are planing to use 4E-FTE ECU,get the harness,or else get a piggy-back ecu,which is much easy & better.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Crazy Life

[Devinda_Z]

doubt the stock pistons will be able to handle the increased compression

[BLu3HaZe]

After a battering of more than 150k km usually, don't think so...

[Crazy Life]

After a battering of more than 150k km usually, don't think so...

standard internals can hold up about 0.8~0.9bar,but if you want to go higher boost,recommend forged internals.

[BLu3HaZe]

Maybe when new or sparsely used but after fatigue of more than 10 years?

[Crazy Life]

Maybe when new or sparsely used but after fatigue of more than 10 years?

any idea about how much boost you are going to run? and your budget?

[BLu3HaZe]

Me, I haven't found an EJ20 yet to swap, let me know how much it costs please? No point doing anything with a SOHC EJ16, right? Or should I try going for the D15B Civic which I have ready access to? Think AWD is hard to overkill, as I may just blow out the tires in the Civic...

Oh and a very crazy idea, is it at all practical to turbo the two banks in H4 separately and give a common intake? This guy from Garrett if I'm not mistaken had said it's asking a lot from one big turbo than 2 small ones. Comments?

As for Killer-B, hmm, no idea cuz he's not replied yet.

[Killer-B]

1.Cheapest is to find a used turbo,but if you can spare money on turbo,go for a brand new/hybrid turbo.really worth the extra money you pay for.so its your choice!.

For piping I can recommend Sacha,he's the a guru in the field.and I personally recommend his work cz I got my turbo kit from him,very nice guy!

Other bits & pieces you can visit rhdjapan,tm developments & finally ebay.

2.It's better if you can get a GT Turbo engine,so you can just swap the engine straight away,or else you'l need.

# Thermostat housing

# 4E-FTE sump with oil feed pick up+dip stick(dip stick is not a must,but good if you can find)

# if you are planing to use the standard CT9 turbo,get the down pipe,or else go for the WEPR kit.

# P/S pump,bracket

# Forged internals(pistons,con rods,etc... ; if you plan to go all the way up to the ultimate EP91)

# Oil filter relocater ,that's all I can remember atm,best thing is to google it or visit TGTT.

3.Depends on the boost you run,more boost=more fuel,so depends on your driving.

4.If you are planing to use 4E-FTE ECU,get the harness,or else get a piggy-back ecu,which is much easy & better.

Thanks for the very detailed answer mate, guess it's better to get a GT turbo engine and swap it with the current.

any idea about how much boost you are going to run? and your budget?

I haven't thought that yet, can you let me know a rough price? Well, its not for racing of course but just that little bit of extra power to smoke those ricer boys.

[Killer-B]

Well there was guy I knew that made his normal 1.3L Starlet into a turbo, but spent a lot on it and the resale value became less. If that's not a problem, afaik yes you can fix a turbo to your engine.

Exhaust, you'd need a manifold for the turbo and a downpipe to fit it too. Engine, you may have to do something about any worn parts. And obviously a retune.

Fuel consumption would generally be worse, you got more back pressure too.

Care to add your questions here too? It's an FAQ after all, could do with more info. I didn't have time to write anymore.

Thanks for all the information mate

[shanX]

Well, its not for racing of course but just that little bit of extra power to smoke those ricer boys.

Ohh... road racing

[BLu3HaZe]

Don't you smoke the ricers for fun? What's the max speed?

Killer-B: You're welcome May I ask how much more power?

[heavyD]

So, what's the minimum bhp gain you can expect from a turbo kit?

[XAVIOR]

So, what's the minimum bhp gain you can expect from a turbo kit?

My guess is if installed properly and Dyno it, most kits will add an additional 30-50% Horsepower on a stock engine with a boost of 6-8PSI.

[BLu3HaZe]

Dyno it where?? Oct 15 was the opening date for the first here I heard, but no more talk about it, completely dead and quiet

[Killer-B]

Ohh... road racing

not really, but anyway you wanna call it mate

Don't you smoke the ricers for fun? Posted Image What's the max speed?

Killer-B: You're welcome May I ask how much more power?

There are a few of these boys on hondas and specially this kid on a evo-kitted cedia who think he's a major hotshot, you just can't resist it!

I don't wanna really spoil my fuel economy either, maybe just enough power to outrun a cedia would do, basically a "small turbo" what do you recommend? and it would help if you boys could give me some info on performance air intakes.

[BLu3HaZe]

Well you better have some good power to outrun the Honda's Putting out 130hp stock, they're pretty fast. A kit Cedia wouldn't be much of a problem though.

I dunno much about the Starlet but had a Tercel Joinus EL51 which was similar chassis and same engine, and that put out around 85hp stock, had rear stabilizer and weighed 850kg, cat was cut out later, so even less and that had a great acceleration even on a 4 speed gearbox and being a sedan, also good handling. So you could, theoretically at least, easily tune yours naturally aspirated to outrun them

Btw, 4E-FE engine right? What's your fuel economy? The Tercel did about 13/14 km/l in town, while not going to save fuel. Feels tiny and I like the injectors' sound at high rpm

Specs - Cedia CS2A (Manual) 90hp 1080kg, (CVT) 100hp, 1130kg vs. Civic EG8 (Manual) 130hp, 1040kg vs. Civic EK3 (Manual) 130hp, 1050kg vs. Starlet EP91 (Manual) 85hp, 840kg

Your aims aren't very high, so need not hurt your economy with a turbo to beat stock cars (if ricers) nah?

Most people here prefer K&N, but I stand by AEM. Personal preference, just look at their graphs and decide.

Edit - You're running 9.88kg/hp while the Cedia is already beatable as it's got 11.3kg/hp, but Civics are ahead at 8kg/hp for EG8 and 8.1kg/hp for EK3. So guess 120hp would be sufficient, but depends on many other factors also. Seems you may have to go turbo after all... 4E-FTE puts out 135hp stock, more than enough for your purpose, being the lightest.

Edited October 7, 2010 by BLu3HaZe

[Crazy Life]

Well you better have some good power to outrun the Honda's Putting out 130hp stock, they're pretty fast. A kit Cedia wouldn't be much of a problem though.

I dunno much about the Starlet but had a Tercel Joinus EL51 which was similar chassis and same engine, and that put out around 85hp stock, had rear stabilizer and weighed 850kg, cat was cut out later, so even less and that had a great acceleration even on a 4 speed gearbox and being a sedan, also good handling. So you could, theoretically at least, easily tune yours naturally aspirated to outrun them

Btw, 4E-FE engine right? What's your fuel economy? The Tercel did about 13/14 km/l in town, while not going to save fuel. Feels tiny and I like the injectors' sound at high rpm

Specs - Cedia CS2A (Manual) 90hp 1080kg, (CVT) 100hp, 1130kg vs. Civic EG8 (Manual) 130hp, 1040kg vs. Civic EK3 (Manual) 130hp, 1050kg vs. Starlet EP91 (Manual) 85hp, 840kg

Your aims aren't very high, so need not hurt your economy with a turbo to beat stock cars (if ricers) nah?

Most people here prefer K&N, but I stand by AEM. Personal preference, just look at their graphs and decide.

Edit - You're running 9.88kg/hp while the Cedia is already beatable as it's got 11.3kg/hp, but Civics are ahead at 8kg/hp for EG8 and 8.1kg/hp for EK3. So guess 120hp would be sufficient, but depends on many other factors also. Seems you may have to go turbo after all... 4E-FTE puts out 135hp stock, more than enough for your purpose, being the lightest.

I've beaten couple of those ricer boys with my stock engine,and taught one Maruti guy the difference of 800cc & 1500cc.

I think even with stock internals & hybrid ct9 you can gain 170hp+ easily.cz there's one sera who has done 4E engine conversion and he's running 173~179hp

The best graph I've ever cme across for ricer hp gain.no offense kit boys!

[shanX]

Most people here prefer K&N, but I stand by AEM. Personal preference, just look at their graphs and decide.

I have an AEM on mine, but now am doubting their graphs, coz it's been long time and filter still looks like it's new, no dust or anything, maybe coz it's a paper filter? And a thin layer of dust inside intake pipe, not a lot though... If I have to buy a new one, it would be Apexi. And next option would be AEM

[BLu3HaZe]

I've beaten couple of those ricer boys with my stock engine,and taught one Maruti guy the difference of 800cc & 1500cc.

I think even with stock internals & hybrid ct9 you can gain 170hp+ easily.cz there's one sera who has done 4E engine conversion and he's running 173~179hp

Good going! It's really pathetic to see Maruti's with HUGE exhausts, as if that does any good for the 800cc's...

I have an AEM on mine, but now am doubting their graphs, coz it's been long time and filter still looks like it's new, no dust or anything, maybe coz it's a paper filter? And a thin layer of dust inside intake pipe, not a lot though... If I have to buy a new one, it would be Apexi. And next option would be AEM

Hmmm, maybe the Dry Flow air filter isn't as good as they say then? But it's 'supposed' to be lifetime after all, and it's made to give least restriction, so maybe it has large pores. Yet it's for USA too, a dusty country in the middle and I'm sure they'd have lawsuits on them if it fails, or don't keep to graphs, those guys file cases for nearly everything! Not sure though, many people do like it after all. You got ram air or the cold air intake? Where did you get it from, friend brought or got here?

Yup, Apexi is also a good brand, checked the prices sometime back, not too bad, and very good quality. And so are their exhausts, but falling on the steep side, going Rs.50k+...

[shanX]

Hmmm, maybe the Dry Flow air filter isn't as good as they say then? But it's 'supposed' to be lifetime after all, and it's made to give least restriction, so maybe it has large pores. Yet it's for USA too, a dusty country in the middle and I'm sure they'd have lawsuits on them if it fails, or don't keep to graphs, those guys file cases for nearly everything! Not sure though, many people do like it after all. You got ram air or the cold air intake? Where did you get it from, friend brought or got here?

Yup, Apexi is also a good brand, checked the prices sometime back, not too bad, and very good quality. And so are their exhausts, but falling on the steep side, going Rs.50k+...

No, can't say it's totally bad, but there was a thin film of dust, but maybe it's normal around here? Got a cold air kit, but using the short ram, coz cai=dust++. Ebay. Wanted to get an Apexi one, a bit expensive, also it needs this adapter for it.

Err dude, we're going OT here on someone else's thread....

[BLu3HaZe]

No, can't say it's totally bad, but there was a thin film of dust, but maybe it's normal around here? Got a cold air kit, but using the short ram, coz cai=dust++. Ebay. Wanted to get an Apexi one, a bit expensive, also it needs this adapter for it.

Err dude, we're going OT here on someone else's thread....

For the OT part, sorry Killer-B! But not exactly so cuz he wants to increase power and freeing up his intake would give him a tiny bit more of that

Yup, I don't see much dust problem in Kandy, so maybe Killer-B wouldn't also have that problem, it's usually cold wet and muddy these days. Even normally, the OEM filter we have doesn't get clogged up soon. In Colombo it's a different story I guess. You'd end up with a hydrolock in the floods too, if it's a cold air.

[CARBON]

Dyno it where?? Oct 15 was the opening date for the first here I heard, but no more talk about it, completely dead and quiet

Dyno is getting some sound proofing done,

[BLu3HaZe]

Dyno is getting some sound proofing done,

Ah, now that's good news Could you update the dyno thread too, with anymore pics if available?