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Need Someone Who Knows French

Sifaan

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Sifaan Newbie

Sifaan

Posted
Posted (edited)

Is there anyone here who can read French? I need some help to translate some technical documentation. (Initially figure out if the doc. even has the info I'm looking for)

(I could use google translate, but it'll be a pain to sort out OCR; plus I'd trust a french speaker with some knowledge of cars over google's translation abilities)

Edited by Sifaan

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Pericles Newbie

Pericles

Posted
Posted

I know some French, but I'd be going with Google translate too. Been about 10 years since I had to do anything major. Also, not a car term expert. But still, can give it a whirl.

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Mani Newbie

Mani

Posted
Posted

I know some French, but I'd be going with Google translate too. Been about 10 years since I had to do anything major. Also, not a car term expert. But still, can give it a whirl.

Je ne savais pas que vous parlait français. Donnez-lui un coup et si vous ne pouvez pas traduire, faites le moi savoir. J'ai peut-être vous aider

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Pericles Newbie

Pericles

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Posted

Je ne savais pas que vous parlait français. Donnez-lui un coup et si vous ne pouvez pas traduire, faites le moi savoir. J'ai peut-être vous aider

Je parle un peu :) J'ai étudié pour le baccalauréat.

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Sifaan Newbie

Sifaan

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OK, the two french docs are here and here.

what I am trying to find is some info to troubleshoot a climate control problem...

background:

there's a common situation where (on RHD C5s) the passenger side blows hot - this is because the plastic socket that engages with a flap control motor sprocket gets damaged and remains stuck in the position to provide hot air. it appears to be a problem only on the left hand side because there are a couple of coolant lines near that socket, which may be making the plastic brittle or something. There's a documented solution for this which is to use a replacement motor with a longer shaft (or glue to motor to the socket!)

I seem to be the first person to experience this on the right hand side; it's possible it's the same reason (damaged socket) but I'm also trying to find out if the fault can be elsewhere (e.g. temperature sensors) - because sometimes things work fine (could be the socket is marginal, or that it depends on the sensor reading). And sometimes it blows warm air from both sides (as if the compressor is cut off; but I think it's still running cos if I switch the A/C off I can notice a drop in idle rpms; and a subsequent increase if I switch on again)

I would hate to open up the dashboard only to be unable to locate the fault!

Questions

1. How does the temperature sensors (inside (how many, where?) and outside) influence the operation of the system?

2. Under what circumstances does the A/C compressor get shut off?

3. Any other info in there that could be relevant to my problem

Thanks!

PS I hope MasterDon can at least temporarily suspend his amorous tendencies ;)

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Sifaan Newbie

Sifaan

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thanks for searching for the issue :)

I had already seen the bba-reman link; as well as many more on the topic on citroen-owners-club.co.uk, and the C5-L yahoogroups - all with problems with mixing on the left hand side and all due to the socket wearing out. I've got the issue posted up on the UK owners club as well as aussiefrogs, but it's got everyone stumped so far.

can't remember particularly about the honestjohn link

btw I don't need all the stuff in the docs translated, not even all the stuff related to the climate control - just anything that might be an answer to my questions. (of course, to figure that out IS a lot of reading!)

  • 0
virensti Newbie

virensti

Posted
Posted

Voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir? Voulez-vous coucher avec moi? :D

Sacre' Bleu!!! :blink:

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Pericles Newbie

Pericles

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Posted

Sacre' Bleu!!! :blink:

Its just the lyrics from Lady Marmalade, dude. Try it on random chicks in French speaking countries and see how many times you get slapped :D

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Pericles Newbie

Pericles

Posted
Posted (edited)

OK, the two french docs are here and here.

what I am trying to find is some info to troubleshoot a climate control problem...

background:

there's a common situation where (on RHD C5s) the passenger side blows hot - this is because the plastic socket that engages with a flap control motor sprocket gets damaged and remains stuck in the position to provide hot air. it appears to be a problem only on the left hand side because there are a couple of coolant lines near that socket, which may be making the plastic brittle or something. There's a documented solution for this which is to use a replacement motor with a longer shaft (or glue to motor to the socket!)

I seem to be the first person to experience this on the right hand side; it's possible it's the same reason (damaged socket) but I'm also trying to find out if the fault can be elsewhere (e.g. temperature sensors) - because sometimes things work fine (could be the socket is marginal, or that it depends on the sensor reading). And sometimes it blows warm air from both sides (as if the compressor is cut off; but I think it's still running cos if I switch the A/C off I can notice a drop in idle rpms; and a subsequent increase if I switch on again)

I would hate to open up the dashboard only to be unable to locate the fault!

Questions

1. How does the temperature sensors (inside (how many, where?) and outside) influence the operation of the system?

2. Under what circumstances does the A/C compressor get shut off?

3. Any other info in there that could be relevant to my problem

Thanks!

PS I hope MasterDon can at least temporarily suspend his amorous tendencies ;)

I don't think my A/L French prepared me for this, :) but I do believe what you are looking for might be the diagrams on page 94 onwards (first doc).

Also according to this, there should be a display which normally shows the state of the system (I'm guessing the current temp and stuff) that should show you any system faults.

For your first Q, there seems to be this

There is something called a BSI (Seems to translate into box of intelligence or summin :D These French, I tell you :D ) that runs controls the A/C (auto) Page 106 seems to have a diagram showing how it relates. The sensor should be the 8080 in the diagram.

From what I understand, it says the the compressor will engage if the motor is turning (duh) and the kicker is enabled (no idea)

Also says

To prevent icing of the evaporator refrigeration prohibits the BSI engagement of the refrigeration compressor in certain temperature conditions.

OK, according to page 107, 8006 is definitely the temperature sensor of the evaporator. But not the car interior...

Also seems to indicate the compressor might disengage if the engine water temp climbs high. That info from sensor 1220 (pg 113) 114 describes this more, in summary that the compressor will cut off if the temp goes over 112°C and switch on again only if it goes under 108°C AND the previous cut off was more than 1 minute previously. (Count on the AC being off for 1 minute at least if the engine coolant temp goes over 112°C)

and I got tired of taxing my brains and google when it says that there is something connected to the gearshifts in the automatic transmission. I mean, WTF?

Tho the overall diagram seems to be in p124

Edited by Pericles
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leyland Newbie

leyland

Posted
Posted

Sifaan,

You could also try translating those 2 docs using this site for free. You need to have JRE installed and manually select the source language as French since auto detection may take a long time. Also, depending on the size of the pdf, the translation may take about 5 - 10 mins, so be patient :D It will save a translated pdf in the same folder as the source file with a .en suffix added to the original filename. I managed to successfully translate the jap manual of my Honda Fit using this site although its not 100% perfect, its better than trying to figure out japanese or french in your case.

http://www.onlinedoctranslator.com/translator.html

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Sifaan Newbie

Sifaan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@Peri: Thanks; my brain tells me it can't cope with all of this tonight, so I'll go through it tomorrow :)

@Leyland: This seems interesting; will give it a try and see (guess it should work at least for the text PDFs)

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Mani Newbie

Mani

Posted
Posted

The second link is about Air bag and AC system. It talks about how and what to do if a given issue arises from the AC but not talking about the issue that you're having. Most of what is written is about the compressor and it's general function.

Reading some of the forums out there on the subject, this seems to be a common problem for your car though no one really nailed down a fix. Some have had issue with micro motors [i think this is the motors that actuates the gates inside the system to distribute cold/hot air. I believe they were also talking about a duel climate control system and a temperature sensor. The temp sensor must be inside the cabin, most likely near the air passage if your car is equipped with a duel climate control set up. The two most common things that were discussed was the temp sensor and the micro motors.

That being said, what I recommend for you is to try and diagnose the problem on your own. Checking the micro motors should be fairly easy [relatively speaking]. You should be able to see and make sure that the gears are not stripped and the motors are functioning properly, the gates are operational etc... If you have temp sensors, try and see if you can switch the left and right one to see if it makes a difference [if the sensors can be switched]. If it does, then you know one of the sensors is bad.

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Sifaan Newbie

Sifaan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Also according to this, there should be a display which normally shows the state of the system (I'm guessing the current temp and stuff) that should show you any system faults.

there is a display (not the one on the A/C controls though) that shows info + messages, but so far no error messages relating to A/C

For your first Q, there seems to be this

There is something called a BSI (Seems to translate into box of intelligence or summin :D These French, I tell you :D ) that runs controls the A/C (auto) Page 106 seems to have a diagram showing how it relates. The sensor should be the 8080 in the diagram.

getting a bit more hang of these symbols, it seems if there is a "variable resistor" symbol (vertical rectangle with an arrow through it) on the left it indicates a sensor, and an IC symbol indicates a computer. 8080 seems to be the "cooling computer"

From what I understand, it says the the compressor will engage if the motor is turning (duh) and the kicker is enabled (no idea)

the online translator said "blower" :)

Also says

To prevent icing of the evaporator refrigeration prohibits the BSI engagement of the refrigeration compressor in certain temperature conditions.

OK, according to page 107, 8006 is definitely the temperature sensor of the evaporator. But not the car interior...

aha, so that's what the fancy graph on the next page is about.

Also seems to indicate the compressor might disengage if the engine water temp climbs high. That info from sensor 1220 (pg 113) 114 describes this more, in summary that the compressor will cut off if the temp goes over 112°C and switch on again only if it goes under 108°C AND the previous cut off was more than 1 minute previously. (Count on the AC being off for 1 minute at least if the engine coolant temp goes over 112°C)

ha ha; experienced that shit last year when the radiator had problems. it not only switches off the A/C, it will even cut out the engine if things are getting too hot!

and I got tired of taxing my brains and google when it says that there is something connected to the gearshifts in the automatic transmission. I mean, WTF?

Tho the overall diagram seems to be in p124

apparently it doesn't allow the compressor to change state (on->off or off->on) when the autobox is shifting gears to keep the shift smooth. wow.

and to steal your line, I don't think my electronics degree prepare me for that diagram! (or maybe it would've if I'd been paying more attention)

You could also try translating those 2 docs using this site for free.

http://www.onlinedoctranslator.com/translator.html

This turned out to be much more workable than I initially anticipated. Retaining the correct formatting (tables, etc) is quite good.

although some of the results are pretty funny - apparently I have "2 scouts trunk" (but in context it seems to mean "2 lights in the trunk"). Also managed to get something from the scanned doc (used an online OCR tool first)

The second link is about Air bag and AC system. It talks about how and what to do if a given issue arises from the AC but not talking about the issue that you're having. Most of what is written is about the compressor and it's general function.

Reading some of the forums out there on the subject, this seems to be a common problem for your car though no one really nailed down a fix. Some have had issue with micro motors [i think this is the motors that actuates the gates inside the system to distribute cold/hot air. I believe they were also talking about a duel climate control system and a temperature sensor. The temp sensor must be inside the cabin, most likely near the air passage if your car is equipped with a duel climate control set up. The two most common things that were discussed was the temp sensor and the micro motors.

Mani, can you share with me some of the forum links - cos I've so far not found any thing about the micromotors themselves failing (btw there are 3, one to control mix on passenger side, one for mix on driver side, and one for distribution - chest, feet, windscreen and combinations thereof) only seen the socket that engages with the sprocket failing.

also any links to discussions on the sensors, because from what I can understand from the various translation efforts, there are 3 temperature sensors involved - outside air temp, evaporator temp, and engine temp. I can't find anything in the descriptions, or in the part diagrams for the A/C system, about a cabin air temp sensor.

(btw the C5 either came with manual A/C control, or dual zone climate control. From when the system was working, when we start up, the blower runs almost at max (because the air is warm) and then progressively the blower speed decreases. I thought this was related to an air temp sensor somewhere; especially cos the blower didn't reduce on occassions where we had accidentally left a window open)

That being said, what I recommend for you is to try and diagnose the problem on your own. Checking the micro motors should be fairly easy [relatively speaking]. You should be able to see and make sure that the gears are not stripped and the motors are functioning properly, the gates are operational etc... If you have temp sensors, try and see if you can switch the left and right one to see if it makes a difference [if the sensors can be switched]. If it does, then you know one of the sensors is bad.

I hope that the disassembly instructions in the 2nd doc are only for replacing the entire system (e.g. the entire evaporator housing) and that I don't have to do all that to check the motors and the sensors (if they can be located!)

Thanks all for the help!

  • 0
Pericles Newbie

Pericles

Posted
Posted

the online translator said "blower" :)

Google Translate is what gave me kicker, hadn't come across that word before. Hence no idea. Didn't have a context fit there. Oh well. :)

  • 0
virensti Newbie

virensti

Posted
Posted (edited)

Its just the lyrics from Lady Marmalade, dude. Try it on random chicks in French speaking countries and see how many times you get slapped :D

ahh I knew it was familiar.. Touche' :)

erm, I'll pass, I've heard french women are kinda strong! :mellow:

Edited by virensti

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