Pulling Issue When There's A Load On Rear Tires

[Amila G]

Hi,

There's a strange issue with my car CE110. When there's a rear passenger in the car, it pulls heavily to left. But goes straight if there's no load in the rear.

It goes straight when there are 2 people in the front, but the problem arises when someone is in the back seat.

Previously it had a bent left lower arm and broken steering rack mounts so I replaced left lower arm+bushes and the rack mounts and now all the components are fine. The left front wheel is a little behind the right wheel so it had a slight pull to the left but it's really worse when there's load in the rear.

I took the car to 3 alignment places. (Sanka, car care and pitstop) apparently no one had fixed it. Actually it was there before, but I noticed it this morning (So I did not inform them while doing the alignment). Coz previously I though it was due to the issue with the bent arm but today I tested and confirmed the issue is still there although the arm is replaced now.

If you wonder this is why I had to go to 3 places. When I went to alignment @ pitstop they told the caster is out(i.e. left wheel is a little behind) So I went to the mech and found the bent arm and the bushes so I replaced them and the rack mounts. Then I went back to do the alignment. They did the job then my steering was not centered. When I inquire about it they told some bs about my rack being bad. Then I went to Sanka and they too could not center the steering wheel.

Finally it was car care who centered the steering yesterday and they did a good job. So I phoned them about the pulling issue today and they suggested it could be due to one coil spring in rear could be lower than the other. They said there was a slight difference in the camber of both the left wheels and corrected it using a hydrolic puller as it's not adjustable. (Have you experienced this ?)

I need your advice on the issue as I could not see any difference in the rear ride height and also the chap did not sound confidence enough for me to believe him.

PS.

Front tires are new and the rears are fine although a bit worn. All are balanced, aligned and has correct pressure. There's no any rattling sounds going over potholes. There's a slight oil leak from one of the metal tubes in the steering rack (due to busted thread when re-fitting) and the mech said it won't affect anything (still looking to buy it, but really hard to find). Power steering fluid level goes from max to min about in a month or so.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Amila G

[terrabytetango]

Looks like you have a rear end alignment problem. Check the caster on your rear wheels, as compensating for incorrect caster through toe angle will cause the wheel to change its toe angle during suspension articulation. This is commonly known as bump steer.

[Amila G]

Looks like you have a rear end alignment problem. Check the caster on your rear wheels, as compensating for incorrect caster through toe angle will cause the wheel to change its toe angle during suspension articulation. This is commonly known as bump steer.

Carcare did the alignment on all 4 so rears should be fine. Also rear castor was fine. Front left castor is bit off but still within the spec. (Showed as green in Sanka's machine ).

Another alignment tech (someone I know) told me that rear shocks might be bad. So I'll be checking that tomorrow. But I don't have any body roll issues. Can a worn shock create this kind of a behavior ?

[terrabytetango]

Yes significantly worn shocks could create the same behavior although TBH I have not experienced it first hand.

[The Don]

Carcare did the alignment on all 4 so rears should be fine. Also rear castor was fine. Front left castor is bit off but still within the spec. (Showed as green in Sanka's machine ).

Another alignment tech (someone I know) told me that rear shocks might be bad. So I'll be checking that tomorrow. But I don't have any body roll issues. Can a worn shock create this kind of a behavior ?

Well Amila, anything is possible. I think terrabytetango's explanation makes sense but you say the rear castor is correct. I think this is what we know up to now. Your left side suspension system has been subjected to some serious force in the past leaving it out of shape. Putting weight on the left rear seems to alter the driving dynamics of the car to a point it pulls to the left side.

I think in situations like this, it's best to take a step back and look at the problem with a fresh pair of eyes and include all possibilities. The first test I suggest is quite a simple one. Forget what the machines are telling you and measure the dimensions of both the left and the right side of the car (width, length etc but also the distance of the wheels from the ends of the car and the distance between them.

Next hoist the car up and inspect the rear suspension links again if possible measuring the dimensions. You can ask your mechanic to do this. This is also to rule out any further suspension damage causing other problems. Whenever you have a series of problems like this, it's usually the result of an accident repair which wasn't done properly and in Sri Lanka the repairmen rarely look into enough detail when it comes to suspension damage resulting from an accident.

Also check all rear suspension bushes, taking the assembly on the left apart if necessary and violently shaking the left rear wheel to see if there is play. There might be damage to a bush which is not visible to the naked eye or does not become an issue until the bush is put under a certain amount of pressure.

Then obviously you can look into spring tension and rear shock absorbers.

[The Don]

Yes significantly worn shocks could create the same behavior although TBH I have not experienced it first hand.

Usually when you have worn shocks, the back tends to bounce around quite a lot and the problem should get better not worse when weight is added on ..... But you are right perhaps it alters driving geometry to a point it just pulls to a side .....

[terrabytetango]

Usually when you have worn shocks, the back tends to bounce around quite a lot and the problem should get better not worse when weight is added on ..... But you are right perhaps it alters driving geometry to a point it just pulls to a side .....

A load in the rear will cause the rear to settle lower (unless the CE110 comes with auto-leveling suspension which I doubt), thus in that state the wheel geometry might change enough to cause the car to pull to one side.

Edited January 19, 2012 by terrabytetango

[Amila G]

@terrabytetango and @TheDon thanks a lot for your replies. Will follow your advises.

Anyway I scheduled a shock testing for tomorrow and keep you guys posted about the findings. Unfortunately did not have time today to correctly measure wheels.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Amila G

[Amila G]

Went to check the shocks and they turned out to be fine.

So I finally decided to listen to my dad and went to the place that he goes for the alignment (auto wheel center in walana). I too used to go there but switched to so called sophisticated computerized places as the old place did not have any fancy gizmos.

They too checked the alignment, wheel distances and it was fine. Baffled by my issue, the guy took the car for a test drive. Within 500 meters he told me that he knows the issue and went back to the shop and ask his technician to change the camber on the right front wheel. (It was adjustable as the hole had been made bigger earlier)

Also there was a slight tilt in the steering even after car care adjusted it and this guy corrected it perfectly without a fuss.

After that all the pulling issues were solved and the car drove perfectly. These guys did the job that car care, pitstop and Sanka failed to do with all there so called state of the art machines(though care care was way better than the other 2).

So moral of the story is, no fancy machine can substitute the sheer experience and you have to listen to your parents at least when something goes wrong

And never ever go to pitstop those idiots told me that they cannot center my steering coz there computer says it is correct

They said having load in the rear made the camber problem more evident and that's why I experienced the pull when the rear is loaded

Thanks guys for taking time to help me on this

Edited January 20, 2012 by Amila G

[The Don]

Went to check the shocks and they turned out to be fine.

So I finally decided to listen to my dad and went to the place that he goes for the alignment (auto wheel center in walana). I too used to go there but switched to so called sophisticated computerized places as the old place did not have any fancy gizmos.

They too checked the alignment, wheel distances and it was fine. Baffled by my issue, the guy took the car for a test drive. Within 500 meters he told me that he knows the issue and went back to the shop and ask his technician to change the camber on the right front wheel. (It was adjustable as the hole had been made bigger earlier)

Also there was a slight tilt in the steering even after car care adjusted it and this guy corrected it perfectly without a fuss.

After that all the pulling issues were solved and the car drove perfectly. These guys did the job that car care, pitstop and Sanka failed to do with all there so called state of the art machines(though care care was way better than the other 2).

So moral of the story is, no fancy machine can substitute the sheer experience and you have to listen to your parents at least when something goes wrong

And never ever go to pitstop those idiots told me that they cannot center my steering coz there computer says it is correct

They said having load in the rear made the camber problem more evident and that's why I experienced the pull when the rear is loaded

Thanks guys for taking time to help me on this

Glad to know you got it sorted! I think you now understand what I meant when I said forget what the machines are telling you No computer, fancy shop or even qualification is a substitute to knowledge gained through experience. Please post the contact details of this place and directions on how to get there so other members can benefit from their expertise.

[NRX]

I'm glad you finally sorted it out mate

[fookie]

Well I've been going to this place for two years now, recommended by my uncle . As I heard its one of the first places SL that started doing Wheel Alignment in SL . Only draw back is weekends it's gets little crowded so you may have to go early in the morning or make an appointment. I think they do have a compturzied system but no ones uses it and everyone comes to do it the old fashioned way.

Edited January 20, 2012 by fookie

[Amila G]

It's called auto wheel center and it's in Walana Panadura. When coming from panadura it's to the right in the old road about 200 meters from the roundabout where the new road starts.

Map.

http://g.co/maps/gmv9s

Phone. 038-2231133. Better call them before going there. They were already fully booked for this Saturday and Sunday when I went there today. And closed on Mondays.

One more thing, they have a machine that measures the side slip that they use to set the toe. When you drive over it, it shows how far your car drifts to a side actually when travelling a straight mile (fully mechanical one ).

Thanks again AL guys, really appreciate your help.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Amila G

[terrabytetango]

Brilliant, glad to see that you got the issue fixed. I too always ask the guys to use their eyes and do it manually rather than trust the machines with alignment.