Egr Valve And Use Of Euro3 Standard Petrol For Pajero Io

[Y3K]

Hi All,

I'm looking answers to some questions related to the pajero IO.

1. Took my vehicle to the mechanic and as he was taking out the EGR, he pointed out to me that EGR Valve was blocked using small metal plate at the engine manifold.

When Im at a traffic(engine Idle) the rpm goes bellow .5 and the vehicle starts to rattle. Can this be due to this blocked/closed EGR? (After a bit of surfing I found out that, rough idle, can be caused due to EGR valve not working but the explanations say the idling issue occurs if the EGR cannot be closed by the computer!!!)

2. Is it ok to use Euro3 standard petrol(157/- per ltr) from IOC?

Can this cause any side effects to the engine?

Thanks.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Y3K

[Fixzit]

I do not think it's because of the petrol that you are using.. I'm with your mechanic on this. Yes you can have a rough idle with a blocked egr valve as well as some other symptoms like engine Knocking, stalling, overheating and your car could fail the emission test.. sometimes you get the check engine light for blocked egr..in that case you can use a scanner to pin point exactly what's wrong..

[Y3K]

Fixzit

Hi,

The scanner indicates that everything is in ship shape!!!

Well my mechanic made a change to the acceleration sensor value, Increased the minimum voltage it required inorder to keep the rpm somewhere arround 1.5. This got rid of the rattling for a week but now its back again!

The next thing suggested by my mechanic is to try and change the throttle body!

Is there a way to manually find out if the throttle body is working without an issue or not priror to this?

Thanks.

[The Don]

Hi All,

I'm looking answers to some questions related to the pajero IO.

1. Took my vehicle to the mechanic and as he was taking out the EGR, he pointed out to me that EGR Valve was blocked using small metal plate at the engine manifold.

When Im at a traffic(engine Idle) the rpm goes bellow .5 and the vehicle starts to rattle. Can this be due to this blocked/closed EGR? (After a bit of surfing I found out that, rough idle, can be caused due to EGR valve not working but the explanations say the idling issue occurs if the EGR cannot be closed by the computer!!!)

2. Is it ok to use Euro3 standard petrol(157/- per ltr) from IOC?

Can this cause any side effects to the engine?

Thanks.

Your idle control valve seems to have failed. Are you sure you haven't mixed up the EGR (exhaust gas re circulation valve with something else?

[Fixzit]

Did you try taking that EGR blocking plate off and see whether there is any improvement? People block the EGR for many reasons. Mainly it gives you a bit of power at no cost, and also keep your throttle body a bit cleaner, but then in some models you need the EGR supply clean and running for the engine to perform normally. EGR mostly works at Idle and also at cursing speeds. So if it is the EGR that's causing your problems you might feel a sudden RPM spikes while you are driving at crusing speeds. Before you change the throttle body try cleaning it. Also clean the MAF while you are at it (Only use a MAF sensor cleaner)..See whether that makes any changes...

Edited October 16, 2012 by Fixzit

[Y3K]

Hi,

The Don

" idle control valve" = IAC right?

My mechanic tells me that Pajero IO GDI does not have a seperate IAC, and throttle body does the functionality of an IAC valve.

Yes, EGR valve was cleaned and I'm positive it was the EGR.

Fixzit

Yes I took the EGR blocking plate off, it has no change. EGR valve is cleaned, and will have a go at MAF sensor as well.

Guys, is there any way to make certain wheather my throttle body works or not???

To tell you the truth I'm having nightmares with my dream drive, but with the effort I have spent 'n the knowledge I've gained, I'm reluctant to give this vehicle away , Always hoping for a better tomorrow.

Please advice guys,

Thanks.

[The Don]

Hi,

The Don

" idle control valve" = IAC right?

My mechanic tells me that Pajero IO GDI does not have a seperate IAC, and throttle body does the functionality of an IAC valve.

Yes, EGR valve was cleaned and I'm positive it was the EGR.

Fixzit

Yes I took the EGR blocking plate off, it has no change. EGR valve is cleaned, and will have a go at MAF sensor as well.

Guys, is there any way to make certain wheather my throttle body works or not???

To tell you the truth I'm having nightmares with my dream drive, but with the effort I have spent 'n the knowledge I've gained, I'm reluctant to give this vehicle away , Always hoping for a better tomorrow.

Please advice guys,

Thanks.

Something doesn't sound right..................... Hope JDNet sees this thread and posts an answer as he's got one of these himself. Check this link out

http://www.justanswer.com/mitsubishi/77x62-mitsubishi-mitsubishi-pajero-io-1-8l-engine-direct-injection.html

[Rumesh88]

Did you get your PCV valve checked and cleaned? It is fairly easy to check if it is working for it is a one-way valve and if faulty does not cost much to replace (hope it is the plastic version with an L-bend).

[Y3K]

Did you get your PCV valve checked and cleaned? It is fairly easy to check if it is working for it is a one-way valve and if faulty does not cost much to replace (hope it is the plastic version with an L-bend).

Yes its cleaned and is working fine.

[Y3K]

Something doesn't sound right..................... Hope JDNet sees this thread and posts an answer as he's got one of these himself. Check this link out

http://www.justanswe...-injection.html

Hmm.. this link says of an IAC, but is there any links that point to the location of IAC on throttle body and directions on cleaning it?

[Rumesh88]

Is your engine GDI 4G9x type or any other? Check if you have any vacuum leaks between throttle and intake manifold.

Also have a look at http://www.pajerio.com/forum/idle-problem

[Fixzit]

When you hooked up the scanner? how was the live data? TPS, Calculated Load, Fuel trim..ect are those values normal for your engine at idle? and also I'm sure you have looked on to this matter..just asking..this is not related to your A/C idle up not working properly is it?

Edited October 30, 2012 by Fixzit

[Y3K]

Well mechanic says it normal, nope it's not related to A/C idle.

Should I take it to a unimo service adviser???

[Y3K]

Rumesh88

Thanks mate...

[jdnet]

Something doesn't sound right..................... Hope JDNet sees this thread and posts an answer as he's got one of these himself. Check this link out

http://www.justanswe...-injection.html

Had a look at OPs vehicle. Maybe you can help me figure this out.

-OP says unimo adjusted that values on the sensor for the gas pedal (the io is not cable driven). Two weeks after the adjutment his problems begin.

-From what I can gather, there weren't any issues previously. Unimo scan didn't reveal anything.

-I scanned the vehice and I'm seeng p0170 (fuel trim malfunction). No other codes. O2 sensors are working fine. EGR, IAC is good.

-Currect idle with a/c off is 950, on is 750. Idle remains stable at these values. the average idle with a/c off shoulld be in the 700 range.

-Car feels like the throttle is bing ept open as if you would keep taping on the gas pedal.

-There is no inherent problem with the TBs on the IOs. Yet his mechanic wants to change the TB. From what I see, it's fine.

Usually I would assume this to be a throttle posistion sensor issue but the fact that unimo adjusted the values for the accelerator sensor leaves me curious.

Any insight would be helpful for OP. Fromm what I can gather, is really seems like changing the TB would be an utter waste of cash.

Edited November 4, 2012 by jdnet

[Y3K]

Had a look at OPs vehicle. Maybe you can help me figure this out.

-OP says unimo adjusted that values on the sensor for the gas pedal (the io is not cable driven). Two weeks after the adjutment his problems begin.

-From what I can gather, there weren't any issues previously. Unimo scan didn't reveal anything.

-I scanned the vehice and I'm seeng p0170 (fuel trim malfunction). No other codes. O2 sensors are working fine. EGR, IAC is good.

-Currect idle with a/c off is 950, on is 750. Idle remains stable at these values. the average idle with a/c off shoulld be in the 700 range.

-Car feels like the throttle is bing ept open as if you would keep taping on the gas pedal.

-There is no inherent problem with the TBs on the IOs. Yet his mechanic wants to change the TB. From what I see, it's fine.

Usually I would assume this to be a throttle posistion sensor issue but the fact that unimo adjusted the values for the accelerator sensor leaves me curious.

Any insight would be helpful for OP. Fromm what I can gather, is really seems like changing the TB would be an utter waste of cash.

Hi Jdnet,

Small misunderstanding,

Initialy there was an issue, where at idle, the engine starts to rattle.

The fix for that by unimo mechanics was to change the values as you mentioned.

It wokred fine for two weeks, and after the two weeks, when idling at traffic, the engine starts to rattle. (Of course my guess is that the change of the values keep the engine rev on 950!)

PS: rattle - the engin rev goes really down more than 500, but within seconds (sometimes take more than 5 secs) the rev comes back up again!)

Will get exact details from unimo tomorrow on what they did, and thanks, for allocating your time to have a detailed checkup on the vehicle. Appreciate it a lot!

Thanks mate!

[The Don]

Had a look at OPs vehicle. Maybe you can help me figure this out.

-OP says unimo adjusted that values on the sensor for the gas pedal (the io is not cable driven). Two weeks after the adjutment his problems begin.

-From what I can gather, there weren't any issues previously. Unimo scan didn't reveal anything.

-I scanned the vehice and I'm seeng p0170 (fuel trim malfunction). No other codes. O2 sensors are working fine. EGR, IAC is good.

-Currect idle with a/c off is 950, on is 750. Idle remains stable at these values. the average idle with a/c off shoulld be in the 700 range.

-Car feels like the throttle is bing ept open as if you would keep taping on the gas pedal.

-There is no inherent problem with the TBs on the IOs. Yet his mechanic wants to change the TB. From what I see, it's fine.

Usually I would assume this to be a throttle posistion sensor issue but the fact that unimo adjusted the values for the accelerator sensor leaves me curious.

Any insight would be helpful for OP. Fromm what I can gather, is really seems like changing the TB would be an utter waste of cash.

Hi JD,

Sounds like good work there!

When you say Unimo "set a value", where did they set the value? Is there a mechanical adjustment possible on the electronic throttle or is that something they could set on the ECU? It sounds like they increased the idle speed, which should not be necessary on that sort of vehicle.

Is there a butterfly adjustment screw on the throttle body?

The issue he's having is called idle hunting. The usual problems (now I'll admit I've never worked with cars with electronic throttle), are issues with the throttle body (stuck butterfly valve not opening and closing smoothly, non sealing butterfly or issues with vacuum), the map sensor, the ICV (it starts getting stuck due to carbon build up) or lastly the ECU itself (if all sensors are ok). But usually ECU failure will cause a lot of error codes to be returned and it doesn't sound like this car is exhibiting that little problem..........

I had this problem on my Mitsubishi and it turned out to be a faulty ECU. Mitsubishis of the 90s have issues with the capacitors on their ECU's which cause them to fail (in my case water had got into it).

Does the fuel trim malfunction code disappear if you clear the codes, and run the car again?, because it could have been a momentary or past problem.

I wonder if a throttle body can be bought on the basis it can be returned if unnecessary (most places wont do this and they have massively shot up in price. Ironically much cheaper from breakers over here).

This youtube video explains one of the problems which causes this which you guys have probably already looked at.

Edited November 5, 2012 by The Don

[Rumesh88]

According to the observations above, I believe you get unstable idle only while on drive. While the vehicle is parked the idle is stable. Am I right? If so with AC off and vehicle parked, can you turn the steering all the way to one side (until you hit the limit) and see if the idle speed is stable around 700. (This will load the engine a bit and the sound may change but keep an eye on the rev meter). Do the same with AC on and see if it is stable around 950. You say the idle goes down to 500 and then goes up again and the cycle repeats itself. When it goes up does it go above 700 or 950 and if so by how much?

[Y3K]

Hi JD,

Sounds like good work there!

When you say Unimo "set a value", where did they set the value? Is there a mechanical adjustment possible on the electronic throttle or is that something they could set on the ECU? It sounds like they increased the idle speed, which should not be necessary on that sort of vehicle.

jdnet, The Don: Guyz the values adjusted by unimo is as follows,

TPS: 527mV

APS: 1050mV

Rumesh88:

Yes, but only when the engine is idling when stuck in traffic. Yes you are correct.

I'll perform the test you have mentioned and will get back to you soon.

Thanks guys.

[Rumesh88]

Hmm... You problem seems to be with what those in engineering disciplines identify as "closed loop control". Unless you are one of them forget the jargon. What it literally means is that your engine can be simplified to a controller (ECU), actuator (Pistons) and several sensors (MAF, Temp, Knock, Throttle position, RPM etc.). Now the controller begins to send an input (how much fuel to inject) to actuator based on a reference level (depending on air temp, MAF and internal ECU values etc) and wait for the feedback from the sensors (RPM among other things). Now there is a delay in giving the input and getting the feedback for RPM mainly because of the mechanical nature of the engine. Suppose ECU wants the current RPM of 700 to go up by 100 and increase the fuel delivery by certain amount. If the RPM does not reach 800 within the time estimated by the ECU, it again increases the fuel delivery. This action will repeat until RPM reaches 800 but by then the amount of fuel delivered could be more than that is need to rev the engine to 800 and may end up at 900 for example. Now the same thing can happen when the ECU tries to bring it down to 800 and end up with 500 for example. (I hope I did not mess up in explaining it or say too much. Either case please forgive me). Now you may think it happens in every engine with a ECU! No it is not, thanks to long term and short term fuel trim adjustment taken care of in the software. However, even in predicting fuel trim levels ECU may make some assumptions. Since all what you find in the system are not electronic, ECU may find it difficult to predict. Hence, I am confident that it is either the servo-mechanism which move the throttle (the motor), the throttle mechanism itself, or the throttle position sensor causing all this trouble (assuming of course the ECU is good). Having said all this and considering the relative reliability of the three items, I would say it is the position sensor having a linearity problem at low speeds if I may use the jargon again.

[Y3K]

According to the observations above, I believe you get unstable idle only while on drive. While the vehicle is parked the idle is stable. Am I right? If so with AC off and vehicle parked, can you turn the steering all the way to one side (until you hit the limit) and see if the idle speed is stable around 700. (This will load the engine a bit and the sound may change but keep an eye on the rev meter). Do the same with AC on and see if it is stable around 950. You say the idle goes down to 500 and then goes up again and the cycle repeats itself. When it goes up does it go above 700 or 950 and if so by how much?

Hi Rumesh88,

with AC off and vehicle parked: Idle arround 900-1000

with AC on and vehicle parked: Idle arround 800

[The Don]

Hmm... You problem seems to be with what those in engineering disciplines identify as "closed loop control". Unless you are one of them forget the jargon. What it literally means is that your engine can be simplified to a controller (ECU), actuator (Pistons) and several sensors (MAF, Temp, Knock, Throttle position, RPM etc.). Now the controller begins to send an input (how much fuel to inject) to actuator based on a reference level (depending on air temp, MAF and internal ECU values etc) and wait for the feedback from the sensors (RPM among other things). Now there is a delay in giving the input and getting the feedback for RPM mainly because of the mechanical nature of the engine. Suppose ECU wants the current RPM of 700 to go up by 100 and increase the fuel delivery by certain amount. If the RPM does not reach 800 within the time estimated by the ECU, it again increases the fuel delivery. This action will repeat until RPM reaches 800 but by then the amount of fuel delivered could be more than that is need to rev the engine to 800 and may end up at 900 for example. Now the same thing can happen when the ECU tries to bring it down to 800 and end up with 500 for example. (I hope I did not mess up in explaining it or say too much. Either case please forgive me). Now you may think it happens in every engine with a ECU! No it is not, thanks to long term and short term fuel trim adjustment taken care of in the software. However, even in predicting fuel trim levels ECU may make some assumptions. Since all what you find in the system are not electronic, ECU may find it difficult to predict. Hence, I am confident that it is either the servo-mechanism which move the throttle (the motor), the throttle mechanism itself, or the throttle position sensor causing all this trouble (assuming of course the ECU is good). Having said all this and considering the relative reliability of the three items, I would say it is the position sensor having a linearity problem at low speeds if I may use the jargon again.

Rumesh, the only issue now is that anomaly should have been detected by the ECU but it hasn't. Also the local agents have modified some values in the TPS and Electronic throttle to essentially advance the idle to acceptable levels. Because the electronic elements are not reporting a fault, one would suspect the issue might be mechanical. Either way you can normally source a throttle body with both those sensors attached which might be the way to test this theory. Problem is these things don't come cheap and if it doesn't fix the problem the owner might end up wasting a lot of money.

I also suspect a loose connection or a faulty connector somewhere....... but this should normally trigger the check engine light..... Also important to note the OPs car has not been maintained well. He has all sorts of problems with suspension etc. So some previous fix by a makabass who has altered something can't be ruled out.

Edited November 8, 2012 by The Don

[Rumesh88]

Hi Rumesh88,

with AC off and vehicle parked: Idle arround 900-1000

with AC on and vehicle parked: Idle arround 800

This mean the engine idle is stable on light loads. As Don says above, there can be some makabass jobs done earlier. Even what unimo did I cannot understand for that matter. In an electronically controlled throttle this type of adjustments are not usually necessary. Since ECU is not showing any fault that means the engine is operating its limits. If you lightly tap on the pedel you would observe the same behavior.

I agree Don it must be a mechanical part that has gone wrong - but even the TPS is a mechanical part before converting the position to a electronic signal. It should be fairly easy to test the TPS of this engine if I am not mistaken. However, not to complicate the things can I get the part number of the TPS? I will be able to suggest a way to test it before replacing.

[Rumesh88]

Offline testing of the TPS is fairly simple provided you are able to physically access the connection. (I hope unimo would hv done this already) There must be 4 terminals on the connector. If you can access the TPS side of the connector from outside you can measure the resistance between terminals 1&2 and 1&4. Depending on whether the throttle is fully close or fully open you will get a reading of close to zero ohms for terminal 2 and a reading of 3 - 6kohm for terminal 4, or vice versa. As you slowly turn the throttle by hand the resistance should change smoothly over the entire range from almost zero to 3-6kohm for terminal 2 and vice versa for terminal 4. If this is OK you should not have an issue with the TPS. I gave this information because I do not want you (or your mechanic, as many of them usually do) to blindly change it.

[Y3K]

Thanks The Don, Rumesh88 for the information. Will certainly do this check before doing any replacements.