Feedback On Forum Etiquette, Standards And Courtesy

[Magnum357]

Hi guys,

I think this has been the elephant in the room for a while but we haven't quite addressed it directly yet. I think it is safe to say that there is a lot of conflict in the forum, and while this in itself is not a bad thing, the way this then translates to pages and pages of bad language, personal attacks etc which sometimes resemble a school yard fight rather than a discussion amongst adults (the school children in the forum are excused )

Unfortunately this has somewhat become a problem for me (as well as Supra Natural and Pericles) as the current moderators in the forum.

So I was hoping we could as a group agree on things like forum etiquette, standards and what we should do when members step out of line. This should be an open discussion and I hope everyone will contribute their own 2 cents.

I would really like feedback on things like

1. What is acceptable and unacceptable language in the forum

2. Where do we draw the line between a heated debate and threatening abusing behaviour

3. How do we promote free speech and open discussion while keeping the discussions relevant

4. How should members relate to each other

5. How do we promote diversity of opinions without resorting to abuse and personal attacks

6. What do with offenders who does not conform to the code of practice we adopt.

The floor is now open! Hopefully the discussion will lead to a code of practice which can be applied in a fair open manner across the board and agreed to us as a group.

Thanks Don. Your stand is much appreciated and opportune.

In giving a feedback on your criteria:

1. Language which is considered "decent" amongst reasonable iindividuals. ie.no expletives, swear words or acronyms suggesting such foul uncouth language.

2. A heated debate with facts and counter facts is easily distinguishable between threatening and abusive behaviour. The language and essence of the debate will very well speak for itself to indicate what it is between the two.

3. This is a matter of self censorship and personally adhereing with posting guidelines. Anyone going off track of the topic and using uncouth foul language simply to abuse could be warned and then banned.

4. Respect begets respect, abuse very often begets abuse and disrepect. All members should relate to other members with respect.

5. Diverse of opinions is healthy as the facts and counterfacts will leave the members to judge for themselves. Hurling personal abuse demonstrates immaturiity, total lack of discipline and disrespect for others. There again self discipline and censure by the forum modertaors will ensure the goal.

6. 3 warnings accompanied with the removal of the offending posts and finally banning the member could be adopted.

Hope you can make something out of my humble views.

[Supra_Natural]

Just to clarify, no one's trying to turn AL into anything different that it already is... The only thing we're trying to do here is to avoid threads degenerating into pages and pages of unproductive bullshit because someone decided to be a smartass. I know kicking some idiots ass over here is fun, Hell I wade in myself plenty of times, the point of this thread is just to see if we could maybe keep the whole thing going in a way that the discussion stays focused on cars, and not whether someone took someone elses pants off in the drain behind St Peter's in the summer of 1954 (yes Sylvi, that was pointed at you).

The other thing we're trying to do is introduce a bit of civility here, Don't think we're trying to turn this into barbies dreamgirl paradise or whatever, its just an attempt to keep the forum clean at least to some extent.

[Supra_Natural]

Also, if MD wants to say f*ck, the man earned it. It's people like him and posts about restoring his 'rust buckets' that keep this site going. If you guys want to side with the butt hurt allion gang, then by all means do so. You guys can have a site that discusses every aspect of the allion and how to mix your own octane boosters while causing brain damage when you breath in the hazardous chemicals. I think yo might need to brain damaged people on the site anyway, they are probably the only ones who would want to read allion thread after allion thread.

See above

[Magnum357]

There are many people who get a mental satisfaction and think they have superiority to others by using foul language on others to stress a point on a diverse opinion. This depicts immaturity, indiscipline and a superiority complex such individuals suffer, and nothing else.

Why cannot healthy arguments be had on a topic bringing in diverse opinions without the use of foul language and expletives? What relevency does uncouth language have to stress a point? Inability to have constructive healthy arguments on a topic without being abusive and without resorting to expletives suggests indiscipline, disrespect, immaturity and a superiority complex.

[jdnet]

There are many people who get a mental satisfaction and think they have superiority to others by using foul language on others to stress a point on a diverse opinion. This depicts immaturity, indiscipline and a superiority complex such individuals suffer, and nothing else.

Why cannot healthy arguments be had on a topic bringing in diverse opinions without the use of foul language and expletives? What relevency does uncouth language have to stress a point? Inability to have constructive healthy arguments on a topic without being abusive and without resorting to expletives suggests indiscipline, disrespect, immaturity and a superiority complex.

See this is the type of butthurt f*ggot I'm talking about. He creates a retarded thread and some equally retarded posts, people call him out and he starts crying about how people are being offensive.

[Ripper]

not to side up with any party... but the "complainers", finger pointers almost always are the people who contribute the least to the forum.

We were all noobs at one point. We learned the ways of AL and fitted in.

Don't see why others can't do the same without whining all the time...

[Supra_Natural]

There are many people who get a mental satisfaction and think they have superiority to others by using foul language on others to stress a point on a diverse opinion. This depicts immaturity, indiscipline and a superiority complex such individuals suffer, and nothing else.

Why cannot healthy arguments be had on a topic bringing in diverse opinions without the use of foul language and expletives? What relevency does uncouth language have to stress a point? Inability to have constructive healthy arguments on a topic without being abusive and without resorting to expletives suggests indiscipline, disrespect, immaturity and a superiority complex.

Oh P**s off... Stop trying to act all self righteous, you're only digging yourself into a hole here..

[MasterDon]

OK time to get serious.I want The Don to clarify which of these words are considered as "bad language" so I can refrain from getting banned in the future...ok boss?

f**k

Asshole

Dumbf**k

Titty f**k

Dipshit

m*******r

Cuntbomb

Carpetmuncher

Cockass

Cumslut

Cuntlicker

Whore

Dumbwhore

Handjob

Butt Pirate

Asshopper

Assmonkey

Assbandit

p***y

Big p***y

Little p***y

Wet p***y

Black p***y

Nigger p***y

Aappa

Buttlick

Ginger Bush

Ivana Suckmeoff

Didier Drogba

Mr.Bean

Steve Blowjobs

Panties

Pretty Panties

Spongebob Squarepanties

Shit

Mother Trucker

Son of a Mother Trucker

Pericles

Danny Boy

Booty

Big Booty

Bazinga Booties

Phat Booty Mamas

Skinny Booty Mamas

Bukake

Desi Hotties

Russian Swingers

Holy Cow

Jenny McBoobies

Boobies

[Magnum]

OK time to get serious.I want The Don to clarify which of these words are considered as "bad language" so I can refrain from getting banned in the future...ok boss?

f**k

Asshole

Dumbf**k

Titty f**k

Dipshit

m*******r

Cuntbomb

Carpetmuncher

Cockass

Cumslut

Cuntlicker

Whore

Dumbwhore

Handjob

Butt Pirate

Asshopper

Assmonkey

Assbandit

p***y

Big p***y

Little p***y

Wet p***y

Black p***y

Nigger p***y

Aappa

Buttlick

Ginger Bush

Ivana Suckmeoff

Didier Drogba

Mr.Bean

Steve Blowjobs

Panties

Pretty Panties

Spongebob Squarepanties

Shit

Mother Trucker

Son of a Mother Trucker

Pericles

Danny Boy

Booty

Big Booty

Bazinga Booties

Phat Booty Mamas

Skinny Booty Mamas

Bukake

Desi Hotties

Russian Swingers

Holy Cow

Jenny McBoobies

Boobies

i learnt some new words

[Ripper]

Mods and Madz,

Wouldn't it be a better idea to maybe get in touch with the most frequent AL contributors and see what can be done to improve the forum rather than opening it out to everybody?

Although the intent is pure, sometimes democracy isn't the best way.

Maybe you guys should set a few rules and setup some system to manage things without opening it up for a debate. People who follow the new rules will hang on and the others can move on.

And personally, and i admit i'm biased...if "bad attitude" noobs, posers and "ill informed" experts with outdated info an be tackled...most of these fights wont even happen.

@MD at that rate...i'm not returning COD MW3 to you

jeez dude!!! chill! Don isn't the a.wipe you seem to think he is P

[Watchman]

How did "Pericles" work its way into that list?

[jdnet]

I don't know masterdon, It seems like you just listed every phrase you searched on xhamster tonight

Actually I might be using some of those words tonight too. I guess I got a busy night ahead.

Edited September 13, 2012 by jdnet

[The Don]

Listen, no offence to the new mods, you both are really great guys and it's been a pleasure talking to you, however, you seem to have caught the califonikan bug. Of all the automotive forums that I've been a part of, this is the only one that places more emphasis on not gettiing peoples feelings hurt than actually promoting talk and the exchange of ideas about cars. Seriously, go join any other forum and ask a stupid question, you would get your arse handed to you. Also, why all this talk about being nice to people? Everyone here is generally nice when it comes to n00bs and the only time they get insulted is when they ask something really stupid, like lets say; should I buy a car or SUV. If they get their feelings hurt, so what? you scared of a lawsuit? This whole thing is a real turn off.

We are all adults here, so whats the big deal with Masterdon or anyone else saying f*ck? it gets censored to a PG-13 level anyway

Madz, no offence, but, if you want this to be a place with professionals that dress up in suits and answer questions, then you should probably hire some. This is a forum like any other forum in the world, there would be a good side and a bad, it's both of these sides that make people come back.

are you guys expecting this to be a place where some idiot keeps asking the same mundane question about an allion and expecting the rest of us to answer it even though we don't get paid to be here?

This place was fine and peri was doing a good job at it. All you had to do to make things better was to put in more moderators to get rid of the trolls and troll posts, instead you are turning this into a train wreck by trying to turn everyone into saints and listening to some whiny butthurt f*ggots. Seriously take a look around at the people who actually contribute (and no, i'm not talking about our resident googlepappas) do you see then whining about the language? It's only the butthurt people that ask stupid questions that are crying bloody murder.

Also I was a n00b here once. Got raped by VVTI, I turned out fine. We are on good terms now too Maybe you should have a test to see if these people who join the forums are men or eunuchs.

The Don and Supra seem to be just making a big issue out of nothing and I am very surprised at you guys. We are all adults here and I think we can take a few insults and not contemplate suicide.

Now how about doing something that actually matters and just get rid of the trolls?

Again, I'm not trying to offend you guys, but I am very surprised at this new turn. Like it was mentioned before, you guys are suddenly trying to act like saints and turn this into a site for 12 year olds to discuss barbies new car.

Machan as Supra has pointed out, we're not trying to make the forum PG 13. We're just trying to establish a standard of what do we do when threads go out of control.

Telling a guy who is an idiot that he is an idiot well frankly does not work, because he is too idiotic to realise he is an idiot. A person who knows he is an idiot by virtue of that is intelligent

Ironically you might have noted Peri finally managed to get Californikan to see sense in the Tesla thread Now whatever you might think of that you have to give Peri and many more credit for perseverance.

This is not a language control exercise, but an exercise where we agree on how we tackle the problems. Since trying to point out to some people nicely, has not worked, and even using foul language has not worked either, we just need to find something that works and will be applied consistently.

There are a couple of problems. Currently there is no way for a newbie to know who is talking shit and who actually has some knowledge to share. The post count is no indicator as you can accumulate by typing "lol" in threads.

We don't have process of handling the diarrhoea of people who drag on arguments pointlessly and become conversations about people's mothers and fathers. While it might be interesting to some, its probably not everyone's cup of tea.

So JD this is just an open discussion about how do we move on.

To be honest when I first joined autolanka, we used to get our fair share of characters, but things were never got out of control like this. The trolls would shut up after a few warnings, Perhaps autolanka is a victim of its own success in certain ways.

[MasterDon]

......There are a couple of problems. Currently there is no way for a newbie to know who is talking shit and who actually has some knowledge to share. The post count is no indicator as you can accumulate by typing "lol" in threads....

:speechless-smiley-020:

OMG!! OMG!! OMG!!...HE SAID A CUSS WORD!...MADZ!!!! 10 warning points for The Don please!!!

And I wanna know why my puss ys are censored!!! are we in Japanese porn site?

p***y

Big p***y

Little p***y

Wet p***y

Black p***y

Nigger p***y

[Pericles]

OK time to get serious.I want The Don to clarify which of these words are considered as "bad language" so I can refrain from getting banned in the future...ok boss?

Pericles

I think you're ok on this one

I don't know masterdon, It seems like you just listed every phrase you searched on xhamster tonight

Actually I might be using some of those words tonight too. I guess I got a busy night ahead.

God I hope not! I know MD has said some questionable things in the past, but looking up the above keyword on xhamster???

[MasterDon]

God I hope not! I know MD has said some questionable things in the past,

whaaaaat?...All i said was that I'd wash Devinda_Z's Fairlady wearing a bikini...whats wrong with that?...oh and I also enjoy watching pictures of men who have their penises stuck up a Range Rover's(V8) exhaust....

Edited September 13, 2012 by MasterDon

[heavyD]

While I don't actively participate in forum warfare I do lurk around so I'm also of the view that while being polite is a given thing, you don't have to be too nice to everyone.

If suggestions even as simple as using the search function constantly goes unheeded, the only solution is to be a bit harsh. As someone said we are all grownups here, and if you can't take a bit of criticism, well then that's too bad.

While there is an obvious etiquette when it comes to posting stuff on a forum, there's also a certain way this forum (and the internet in general) behaves and it might be prudent for noobs to learn how everything works before complaining about everything. AL doesn't have to bend over backwards to accommodate silly individuals.

Unfortunately, people with a not-so-great understanding of the language will almost always be offended by say, simple remarks like 'stop bitching'. But when it comes to arguments, ad hominem remarks should be the line to draw imo.

[Ripper]

While I don't actively participate in forum warfare I do lurk around so I'm also of the view that while being polite is a given thing, you don't have to be too nice to everyone.

If suggestions even as simple as using the search function constantly goes unheeded, the only solution is to be a bit harsh. As someone said we are all grownups here, and if you can't take a bit of criticism, well then that's too bad.

While there is an obvious etiquette when it comes to posting stuff on a forum, there's also a certain way this forum (and the internet in general) behaves and it might be prudent for noobs to learn how everything works before complaining about everything. AL doesn't have to bend over backwards to accommodate silly individuals.

Unfortunately, people with a not-so-great understanding of the language will almost always be offended by say, simple remarks like 'stop bitching'. But when it comes to arguments, ad hominem remarks should be the line to draw imo.

Ditto....

Some guy was pasting definitions for the word "noob" and saying that it was insulting when i used it on a "noob"

[Pericles]

The other thing we're trying to do is introduce a bit of civility here, Don't think we're trying to turn this into barbies dreamgirl paradise or whatever, its just an attempt to keep the forum clean at least to some extent.

My views in my signature for some time now

[The Don]

While I don't actively participate in forum warfare I do lurk around so I'm also of the view that while being polite is a given thing, you don't have to be too nice to everyone.

If suggestions even as simple as using the search function constantly goes unheeded, the only solution is to be a bit harsh. As someone said we are all grownups here, and if you can't take a bit of criticism, well then that's too bad.

While there is an obvious etiquette when it comes to posting stuff on a forum, there's also a certain way this forum (and the internet in general) behaves and it might be prudent for noobs to learn how everything works before complaining about everything. AL doesn't have to bend over backwards to accommodate silly individuals.

Unfortunately, people with a not-so-great understanding of the language will almost always be offended by say, simple remarks like 'stop bitching'. But when it comes to arguments, ad hominem remarks should be the line to draw imo.

Agreed. And that is exactly the point. When I first wrote this post, I wasn't actually thinking about MD nor JDNet. I had a far simpler aim, to decide as a group what standards we uphold in this forum.

If people repeatedly does not heed to advice, then something must be done, but it must be consistently applied to all without favouration. We all want to enjoy reading good quality posts like MD's restoration thread, GTAM's restoraition, Sumiya's little project, various advice on DIY and so on. That is what I joined up to. In the meantime if we can help a couple of people with their own problems, help some lost dude pick out a car well that's ok too. Heated debates and arguments are good too as long as there is some objectivity to it. But some threads just lose their way and at times Peri has stepped into to clean them up but most times he would let them run in the interests of right of free expression.

But our policy around this at the moment is rather grey, and we just need to be clear as to what is acceptable conduct and what is not, so there is some consistency in the moderation.

[The Don]

What do people think about creating a separate car buying advice thread and moving any future discussions on that subject to that thread?

Also how about creating a hybrid discussion thread and move all discussion relating to hybrids to that. That way relevant information is bundled together, and also we don't have a zillion threads spawned which will end up with the second post being either search or a link to another thread.

Just an idea.............

[RoshanD]

I am newbie to this forum but have been a member of variety of other forums (fora?) for a long time and the following is only my opinion:

1) A forum is a "meeting place" where members can exchange ideas, get advice, trouble shoot their problems and engage in general discussions.

2) It is the responsibility of the posters to ensure that all postings are pertinent and relevant to the topic discussed and that to the best of their knowledge accurate; If they are giving their opinion based on their beliefs and not facts it should be mentioned so that others do not get misled.

3) If a member posts an irrelevant/inaccurate/out of topic, the others should POLITELY point it out with a gentle reprimand. Inaccurate info could be politely corrected. In addition the moderators could also decide whether that post be deleted. There is absolutely no need to use profanity and insult our fellow members.

4) The creator of a thread should also ensure that he is starting a reasonable and relevant thread and also his statement or question is clear to the readers.

5) Since everyone does not share the same degree of knowledge or expertise there maybe instances where a genuine question may seem stupid to others. Members should understand that these questions are asked because the poster is actually looking for an answer and should respond accordingly without belittling the OP.

6) The moderators should take a prominent role in making sure that insulting and abusive posts are deleted and the dignity of the forum is maintained

7) We should all bear in mind this is probably the only forum where we can discuss about vehicle in our own local conditions and should try to keep it informative and productive. Entertainment is good but not at someone else's expense.

8) Members who repeatedly violate forum etiquettes should be warned by the moderators by PM and if they continue to be abusive towards others should be banned. However light hearted bantering should be recognized for what it is and should not be overreacted to.

Kudos to the original poster of this topic as I think it is timely and appropriate as I have unfortunately seen some unacceptable posts in this forum. I hope every one will cooperate as etiquette should be something that comes from within us and not something that should be enforced.

Cheers!

Edited September 14, 2012 by RoshanD

[Watchman]

What do people think about creating a separate car buying advice thread and moving any future discussions on that subject to that thread?

uhhmm.. dont we have a couple of such threads already

Plus a few threads with suggestions on cars for price ranges.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Watchman

[Watchman]

I am newbie to this forum but have been a member of variety of other forums (fora?) for a long time and the following is only my opinion:

1) A forum is a "meeting place" where members can exchange ideas, get advice, trouble shoot their problems and engage in general discussions.

2) It is the responsibility of the posters to ensure that all postings are pertinent and relevant to the topic discussed and that to the best of their knowledge accurate; If they are giving their opinion based on their beliefs and not facts it should be mentioned so that others do not get misled.

3) If a member posts an irrelevant/inaccurate/out of topic, the others should POLITELY point it out with a gentle reprimand. Inaccurate info could be politely corrected. In addition the moderators could also decide whether that post be deleted. There is absolutely no need to use profanity and insult our fellow members.

4) The creator of a thread should also ensure that he is starting a reasonable and relevant thread and also his statement or question is clear to the readers.

5) Since everyone does not share the same degree of knowledge or expertise there maybe instances where a genuine question may seem stupid to others. Members should understand that these questions are asked because the poster is actually looking for an answer and should respond accordingly without belittling the OP.

6) The moderators should take a prominent role in making sure that insulting and abusive posts are deleted and the dignity of the forum is maintained

7) We should all bear in mind this is probably the only forum where we can discuss about vehicle in our own local conditions and should try to keep it informative and productive. Entertainment is good but not at someone else's expense.

8) Members who repeatedly violate forum etiquettes should be warned by the moderators by PM and if they continue to be abusive towards others should be banned. However light hearted bantering should be recognized for what it is and should not be overreacted to.

Kudos to the original poster of this topic as I think it is timely and appropriate as I have unfortunately seen some unacceptable posts in this forum. I hope every one will cooperate as etiquette should be something that comes from within us and not something that should be enforced.

Cheers!

Thanks for the effort in all that typing Cptn Obvious.

[heavyD]

2) It is the responsibility of the posters to ensure that all postings are pertinent and relevant to the topic discussed and that to the best of their knowledge accurate; If they are giving their opinion based on their beliefs and not facts it should be mentioned so that others do not get misled.

No, it's the responsibility of the poster to ensure that his claims can be backed up by real world data and/or experience. This is not a religious forum where people give opinions based on their beliefs, this is a car forum where everything has to be based on fact!