Battery Charge Issue With Alternator Pulley And Fan Belt

[mensoft]

Hi AL Experts ,

I need your advice again on some electrical issue . but i can't tell exactly this is electrical or mechanical issue .

least week i drive may car around 25 km in the night and head lights are on . after next day morning my battery is not charge to start the engine. This battery is not even two months its a brand new battery. so i push the car and start and kept for few min and off the engine and tried to start again and this time its able to crank and start the car.

And just to verify the alternator is working fine while engine is ruining i removed the + wire from the battery and engine is running. so i have no doubt about alternator.

So i dive the car during the day around 10-12 Km and went to the battery shop to show the battery. during this ride i stop the engine 2 times to visit to some other places and when i went to the battery shop i have drive more than 10km.

The issue is in battery shop when they check the battery they said it don't have the correct gravity on the acid and there is some charging issue. i explained them what happens and they check the charging also and while head lights are on and said alternator current is not enough to charge the battery. Next i went to my electrician and explained. he checked all the things and said there is some issue with alternator pulley.(this i can agree because i cant tied my fan belt it get damage) meany times i have changed the belt and Im keeping extra standby.

My questions are ,

1) if a battery dead and once do a jump start how long engine have to run to get it charge .

2) how the gravity can get high once it go down. ( as electrician explains it have to low charge for one day) how long it will take to run from alternator ?

3) what is low charge?

4) when head lights are on to charge the battery how much voltage should provide from alternator ?

5) what is the correct tension for the fan belt.(guy at spare part shop said when its tied it should have 1inch play up and down freely) I feel its too lose.

6) when my battery goes down can i charge it from a old UPS ? then how long i have to charge it ?

My car is Lancer A72 (Flaght light) battry is 12v 45Ah . this week i hope to do the alternator pulley repair and will keep you guys update.

Thanks.

[NRX]

This is not an answer to any of your questions but removing the battery terminals from the car while the engine is running is not recommended.

4) ~13.5v - 14.4v

[10000BC]

Hi, I don't have answers to all the questions below but I'll try my best to answer some of them.

  On 4/29/2013 at 5:20 AM, mensoft said:

Hi AL Experts ,

I need your advice again on some electrical issue . but i can't tell exactly this is electrical or mechanical issue .

least week i drive may car around 25 km in the night and head lights are on . after next day morning my battery is not charge to start the engine. This battery is not even two months its a brand new battery. so i push the car and start and kept for few min and off the engine and tried to start again and this time its able to crank and start the car.

And just to verify the alternator is working fine while engine is ruining i removed the + wire from the battery and engine is running. so i have no doubt about alternator.

So i dive the car during the day around 10-12 Km and went to the battery shop to show the battery. during this ride i stop the engine 2 times to visit to some other places and when i went to the battery shop i have drive more than 10km.

The issue is in battery shop when they check the battery they said it don't have the correct gravity on the acid and there is some charging issue. i explained them what happens and they check the charging also and while head lights are on and said alternator current is not enough to charge the battery. Next i went to my electrician and explained. he checked all the things and said there is some issue with alternator pulley.(this i can agree because i cant tied my fan belt it get damage) meany times i have changed the belt and Im keeping extra standby.

My questions are ,

1) if a battery dead and once do a jump start how long engine have to run to get it charge .

I think this depends on the car. Different car models have batteries of different capacities, the alternators are different so I don't think you can estimate a value for that. My Mazda BHALP charges it's battery within 30 mins and I can see a reasonable battery voltage after that.

  On 4/29/2013 at 5:20 AM, mensoft said:

2) how the gravity can get high once it go down. ( as electrician explains it have to low charge for one day) how long it will take to run from alternator ?

Well, In cars we have lead acid batteries. The gravity (The specific gravity in more accurate terms) of the acid gets changed while charging and discharging.

As this diagram shows the specific gravity and the cell voltage gets down when the battery is getting discharged. When it is charged the gravity gets increased again.

  On 4/29/2013 at 5:20 AM, mensoft said:

3) what is low charge?

4) when head lights are on to charge the battery how much voltage should provide from alternator ?

Generally the batteries are charged using a little higher voltage than the battery voltage. The theoretical potential difference of a battery cell is 2.2V and you have 6 cells in your battery so the ideal potential difference might be 13.2 though it is marked as 12V. So generally alternators generate voltages between 14.2 V to 14.5 V. When you charge the battery the potential difference (the actual voltage you observe between nodes) get decreased. That is the reason that we do not recommend to remove the battery terminal when the engine is running. It can ruin your electronic systems, bulbs etc.

  On 4/29/2013 at 5:20 AM, mensoft said:

5) what is the correct tension for the fan belt.(guy at spare part shop said when its tied it should have 1inch play up and down freely) I feel its too lose.

  On 4/29/2013 at 5:20 AM, mensoft said:

6) when my battery goes down can i charge it from a old UPS ? then how long i have to charge it ?

Theoretically yes. But I don't have an idea of the length of time. Just use a voltmeter and check battery voltage time to time.

  On 4/29/2013 at 5:20 AM, mensoft said:

My car is Lancer A72 (Flaght light) battry is 12v 45Ah . this week i hope to do the alternator pulley repair and will keep you guys update.

Thanks.

[Rumesh88]

  On 4/29/2013 at 5:20 AM, mensoft said:

Hi AL Experts ,

And just to verify the alternator is working fine while engine is ruining i removed the + wire from the battery and engine is running. so i have no doubt about alternator.

ANS: This is not the way to confirm an alternator.

he checked all the things and said there is some issue with alternator pulley.(this i can agree because i cant tied my fan belt it get damage) meany times i have changed the belt and Im keeping extra standby.

ANS: Unless you have the wrong pulley I do not see how this can happen?

My questions are ,

1) if a battery dead and once do a jump start how long engine have to run to get it charge .

ANS: Until the specific gravity of ALL the cells are equal and show a value close to 1.26.

3) what is low charge?

ANS: See my answer to 1 above.

4) when head lights are on to charge the battery how much voltage should provide from alternator ?

ANS: 14.1 to 14.5. But in some vehicles this is controlled by the ECU. For example Hondas with ELD unit.

5) what is the correct tension for the fan belt.(guy at spare part shop said when its tied it should have 1inch play up and down freely) I feel its too lose.

ANS: As a rule of thumb a 1 cm slack when you press the belt down.

6) when my battery goes down can i charge it from a old UPS ? then how long i have to charge it ?

ANS: Depend on how much current your charger can supply. If you 45AH battery is deep discharged you need a charge of over 10 hours if you charge at a constant current of 5Amp.

My car is Lancer A72 (Flaght light) battry is 12v 45Ah . this week i hope to do the alternator pulley repair and will keep you guys update.

Thanks.

It is most likely that your alternator brushes are worn out unless of course whatever the problem with the pulley is serious enough to cause very serious slipping! Edited April 29, 2013 by Rumesh88

[10000BC]

  On 4/29/2013 at 7:31 AM, Rumesh88 said:

It is most likely that your alternator brushes are worn out unless of course whatever the problem with the pulley is serious enough to cause very serious slipping!

Hmm.. I also agree with this. If this happens you are not continuously getting the expected output.

[mensoft]

Hi All ,

Thanks for the valuable answers.

remove battery terminal when engine is running i found it from one of auto related forum while Google. how to check alternator condition.

but now i know how serious it is . again Thanks for the explanations.

and expecting more advice from expertise.

and can i keep battery connected to ups as trickle charger till i get it use in car ? this i asked in some other thread too but still didn't get a answer.

Edited April 29, 2013 by mensoft

[Rumesh88]

  On 4/29/2013 at 9:20 AM, mensoft said:

Hi All ,

and can i keep battery connected to ups as trickle charger till i get it use in car ? this i asked in some other thread too but still didn't get a answer.

I had posted a reply to your query on other thread a couple of days back. However I will repeat the same here.

If your UPS is a 12V system (most UPSs are on 24V) then you can theoretically use it to charge the car battery. But the practical issues are,

1. In some of the UPS designs the battery is not electrically isolated from mains. In this case it is hazardous to take an external connection from UPS. I do not recommend this.

2. You need to keep the UPS output disabled. Otherwise whenever there is a power outage the UPS output will switch on thus draining the battery.

3. If you do not have an issue with 1 and 2 above, you can charge the battery but ensure that the terminal voltage after a full charge level off at 13.8 to 14.0 V for a temperature of around 25C. Some of the high-end UPSs may have more complex charging algorithms like first taking the terminal voltage above 14.0 and then falling back to 13.6 or so.

[mensoft]

  On 4/29/2013 at 10:01 AM, Rumesh88 said:

I had posted a reply to your query on other thread a couple of days back. However I will repeat the same here.

If your UPS is a 12V system (most UPSs are on 24V) then you can theoretically use it to charge the car battery. But the practical issues are,

1. In some of the UPS designs the battery is not electrically isolated from mains. In this case it is hazardous to take an external connection from UPS. I do not recommend this.

2. You need to keep the UPS output disabled. Otherwise whenever there is a power outage the UPS output will switch on thus draining the battery.

3. If you do not have an issue with 1 and 2 above, you can charge the battery but ensure that the terminal voltage after a full charge level off at 13.8 to 14.0 V for a temperature of around 25C. Some of the high-end UPSs may have more complex charging algorithms like first taking the terminal voltage above 14.0 and then falling back to 13.6 or so.

Hi Rumesh88

Thanks for your advice and sorry to say i have not seen your reply. Im not getting the mail alert from AL threads.

Thats why i have missed your answer.

those have marked spam

Edited April 29, 2013 by mensoft

[Sylvi]

  On 4/29/2013 at 9:20 AM, mensoft said:

.

mensoft,

Can you give the year of manufacture and how many kilometers done.

When did you overhaul the alternator last. What made you to change the last battery.

Removing battery terminals is not a good practice in electronic units installed cars.

That was good old days mechanics used to do that. When no ampere meter was installed.

The bulbs can burn off. Old vehicles did not have Electronic units installed.

First of all get the voltage and amperage tested in your car. by a Electrician,

There can be one thing the pulley of alternator is polished, due high kilometers done.

Because of that night time running the when you on your head lights the load comes on on to the alternator.

Then the pulley will start to slip and battery will drain off little by little.

######################################################################################################################

I will answer your questions now.

1) if a battery dead and once do a jump start how long engine have to run to get it charge .

It depends condition and your alternator Amperage. Efficiency of the alternator. voltage regulator adjustment.

2) how the gravity can get high once it go down. ( as electrician explains it have to low charge for one day) how long it will take to run from alternator ?

Gravity to come up the above 1st question will give the answer.

If the gravity is very low then have to keep on a low charge for few hours. depends on the battery amperage and low charging rate of the charger.

For example the battery is 40 amperes. The slow charger is 2 amperes for an a hour. Then for a dead battery will take about 20 hours.

3) what is low charge?

Low charge means. The battery charging with a external charger, with very low amperage. Like mentioned in above sentence.

4) when head lights are on to charge the battery how much voltage should provide from alternator ?

It depends on your bulb wattage and at the same time other equipment of your vehicle discharge amperage.

Maximum adjustment I set is 14.5 Volts DC on Elector Mechanical regulators.

All new vehicles has preset I C regulators incorporated inside alternator.

e5) what is the correct tension for the fan belt.(guy at spare part shop said when its tied it should have 1inch play up and down freely) I feel its too lose.

Yes you are correct. The belt has to be not very tight, you should have about 1/3 to 1/2 inch play, depending of the age of the belt.

6) when my battery goes down can i charge it from a old UPS ? then how long i have to charge it ?

Member, Rumesh 88. Who posses very good knowledge in electronics, has replied for this question with an a comprehensive answer.

Therefore I will not reply same. You have acknowledge his reply post to this thread.

My car is Lancer A72 (Flaght light) battery is 12v 45Ah . this week i hope to do the alternator pulley repair and will keep you guys update.

There is nothing much to do on your alternator pulley, If the pulley is in serviceable condition, just hold the file so that polished area will be little rough.

I hope you will be satisfied with my reply. IF you want any thing more on Alternator matter you can contact me. sylvest@sltnet.lk; novus@slt.lk

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[CJ5]

What does the OP mean by "fan belt is tied"????? Kohu lanu tied for a fan belt???

Edited April 29, 2013 by CJ5

[Sylvi]

  On 4/29/2013 at 12:09 PM, CJ5 said:

What does the OP mean by "fan belt is tied"????? Kohu lanu tied for a fan belt???

CJ5,

I think he had made V Belt Tension more. Thereby he had damage few belts.

OP 'S post says. [this i can agree because i cant tied my fan belt it get damage) meany times i have changed the belt and I'm keeping extra standby.]

His pulley is definitely wasted.That is the reason he has a stand by belt.

There at times I have used only for the fan and crank pulley coir thread as substitute for belt. To keep engine radiator water cool.

Until we reach a town where can purchase fan belt. Cannot run the alternator with coir thread due to load variation.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[mensoft]

  On 4/29/2013 at 11:47 AM, Sylvi said:

mensoft,

Can you give the year of manufacture and how many kilometers done.

When did you overhaul the alternator last. What made you to change the last battery.

Removing battery terminals is not a good practice in electronic units installed cars.

That was good old days mechanics used to do that. When no ampere meter was installed.

The bulbs can burn off. Old vehicles did not have Electronic units installed.

First of all get the voltage and amperage tested in your car. by a Electrician,

There can be one thing the pulley of alternator is polished, due high kilometers done.

Because of that night time running the when you on your head lights the load comes on on to the alternator.

Then the pulley will start to slip and battery will drain off little by little.

######################################################################################################################

I will answer your questions now.

1) if a battery dead and once do a jump start how long engine have to run to get it charge .

It depends condition and your alternator Amperage. Efficiency of the alternator. voltage regulator adjustment.

2) how the gravity can get high once it go down. ( as electrician explains it have to low charge for one day) how long it will take to run from alternator ?

Gravity to come up the above 1st question will give the answer.

If the gravity is very low then have to keep on a low charge for few hours. depends on the battery amperage and low charging rate of the charger.

For example the battery is 40 amperes. The slow charger is 2 amperes for an a hour. Then for a dead battery will take about 20 hours.

3) what is low charge?

Low charge means. The battery charging with a external charger, with very low amperage. Like mentioned in above sentence.

4) when head lights are on to charge the battery how much voltage should provide from alternator ?

It depends on your bulb wattage and at the same time other equipment of your vehicle discharge amperage.

Maximum adjustment I set is 14.5 Volts DC on Elector Mechanical regulators.

All new vehicles has preset I C regulators incorporated inside alternator.

e5) what is the correct tension for the fan belt.(guy at spare part shop said when its tied it should have 1inch play up and down freely) I feel its too lose.

Yes you are correct. The belt has to be not very tight, you should have about 1/3 to 1/2 inch play, depending of the age of the belt.

6) when my battery goes down can i charge it from a old UPS ? then how long i have to charge it ?

Member, Rumesh 88. Who posses very good knowledge in electronics, has replied for this question with an a comprehensive answer.

Therefore I will not reply same. You have acknowledge his reply post to this thread.

My car is Lancer A72 (Flaght light) battery is 12v 45Ah . this week i hope to do the alternator pulley repair and will keep you guys update.

There is nothing much to do on your alternator pulley, If the pulley is in serviceable condition, just hold the file so that polished area will be little rough.

I hope you will be satisfied with my reply. IF you want any thing more on Alternator matter you can contact me. sylvest@sltnet.lk; novus@slt.lk

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Hi Sylvi,

Thanks for the info and answers.

Can you give the year of manufacture and how many kilometers done.

it is 1976.(1st Gen) but i cant remember the exact KMs.

When did you overhaul the alternator last. What made you to change the last battery.

Never. Its still original . Last battery almost 2.5 years old and charge want stay more than 2 3 days. battery shop check and said plates are now not in a condition to use .

First of all get the voltage and amperage tested in your car. by a Electrician,

This i did and they said alternator is fine but need rebuild the pulley. (waiting till weekend to do this )

There can be one thing the pulley of alternator is polished, due high kilometers done.

YES. I think this is the case. because after start and drive few Km i can stop and start the engine so alternator is working and battery also charging.(day time)

Edited April 30, 2013 by mensoft

[mensoft]

  On 4/29/2013 at 1:19 PM, Sylvi said:

CJ5,

I think he had made V Belt Tension more. Thereby he had damage few belts.

OP 'S post says. [this i can agree because i cant tied my fan belt it get damage) meany times i have changed the belt and I'm keeping extra standby.]

His pulley is definitely wasted.That is the reason he has a stand by belt.

There at times I have used only for the fan and crank pulley coir thread as substitute for belt. To keep engine radiator water cool.

Until we reach a town where can purchase fan belt. Cannot run the alternator with coir thread due to load variation.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Generally how long(km or days/months) a fan belt can be used .

[Sylvi]

mensoft,

I will reply on one post your questions.

Your post#12

Better check up your pulley. That may be polished therefore do not take the load . Do you Have a V pulley or Poly V pulley.

Your post#13

I have used belts for 50000 Kilometers or more.Depends on the quality of belts and drive pulleys condition.

I use a Indian Maruti omni for daily use. Now done 22000 Kilometers. Still original belt is good 2 years used.

Family Vehicle Rexton 52000 Kilometers had to change the original bet at 49000 Kilometers after 4 years, when adjuster gave away.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[mensoft]

  On 5/1/2013 at 12:34 AM, Sylvi said:

mensoft,

I will reply on one post your questions.

Your post#12

Better check up your pulley. That may be polished therefore do not take the load . Do you Have a V pulley or Poly V pulley.

Your post#13

I have used belts for 50000 Kilometers or more.Depends on the quality of belts and drive pulleys condition.

I use a Indian Maruti omni for daily use. Now done 22000 Kilometers. Still original belt is good 2 years used.

Family Vehicle Rexton 52000 Kilometers had to change the original bet at 49000 Kilometers after 4 years, when adjuster gave away.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Its V Pulley .

Even though car is older than me i never put any 3rd party parts on it. and i need to keep the original look as much as i can.

and bets are original Mitsuboshi one. but sorry to say i cant run a belt at least 1000Km. .

just waiting till this week end to do the repair.

[Sylvi]

  On 5/2/2013 at 2:54 AM, mensoft said:

Its V Pulley .

Even though car is older than me i never put any 3rd party parts on it. and i need to keep the original look as much as i can.

and bets are original Mitsuboshi one. but sorry to say i cant run a belt at least 1000Km. .

just waiting till this week end to do the repair.

Mensoft,

Your pulley's have a problem. If not belt should last minimum 30000 Killmeters.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[mensoft]

  On 5/2/2013 at 6:53 AM, Sylvi said:

Mensoft,

Your pulley's have a problem. If not belt should last minimum 30000 Killmeters.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

30000 Km. its a dream 4 my belt.

Ya ill update the site after i do this repair.

[mensoft]

  On 5/2/2013 at 6:53 AM, Sylvi said:

Mensoft,

Your pulley's have a problem. If not belt should last minimum 30000 Killmeters.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Hi sylvi.

your correct . i did the job on this weekend . they removed alternator and took of the pulley from the alternator.

and did some lathe work to just to remove damage burnt and polish the surface with some sand papers not it looks new .

and fixed it the the car and adjust the fan belt tension also properly using some gadget and checked voltage and amp.

had to adjust the cut-out coz after made the belt battery was overcharging.

now it works fine same day after all had a long drive around 60km at a stretch to down-south was no issue and belt is fine.

I'm sure if i tied it to this much early i cant run so far .

any way again Thanks all the AL experts for the advice .

[Sylvi]

  On 5/6/2013 at 5:47 AM, mensoft said:

Hi sylvi.

your correct . i did the job on this weekend . they removed alternator and took of the pulley from the alternator.

and did some lathe work to just to remove damage burnt and polish the surface with some sand papers not it looks new .

and fixed it the the car and adjust the fan belt tension also properly using some gadget and checked voltage and amp.

had to adjust the cut-out coz after made the belt battery was overcharging.

now it works fine same day after all had a long drive around 60km at a stretch to down-south was no issue and belt is fine.

I'm sure if i tied it to this much early i cant run so far .

any way again Thanks all the AL experts for the advice .

mensoft,

Get one other person to test your battery Voltage.

What was the cost of repair?

Ok good luck to you.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[mimfarook]

  On 5/6/2013 at 5:47 AM, mensoft said:

Hi sylvi.

your correct . i did the job on this weekend . they removed alternator and took of the pulley from the alternator.

and did some lathe work to just to remove damage burnt and polish the surface with some sand papers not it looks new .

and fixed it the the car and adjust the fan belt tension also properly using some gadget and checked voltage and amp.

had to adjust the cut-out coz after made the belt battery was overcharging.

now it works fine same day after all had a long drive around 60km at a stretch to down-south was no issue and belt is fine.

I'm sure if i tied it to this much early i cant run so far .

any way again Thanks all the AL experts for the advice .

where did you do this and how much did it cost?