My A72 Build

Hoonigan · July 7, 2014

On 7/6/2014 at 1:41 PM, dingy said:
Guy got some good news.Replaced the washer kit in the brake pump and found the brakes to be much better than before..
Also guys any idea how i need to approach the lowering procedure..the rear leafs could be put the lowest setting as it is in the highest at the moment but how do i do the same with the front

Thanks

Komisiripala wrote a post on Bracket's Lancer thread yesterday with what needs to be done with coilovers. Reading that might give you an idea of what you might want.

With my limited knowledge on the subject, this is what I found as more economical options (If you can't afford a complete set of coilovers)

1. There are lowering coils. Stock diameter but, say an inch, shorter. If you buy the spring in the same poundage as the stock spring, it will in theory, sit one inch lower. This will go on easily in the stock strut and will be the cheapest way to drop the car. On the downside, you will bottom out one inch ahead of your stock set up. Basically this is merely a better solution than cutting your springs. You can compensate by using a stiffer spring but you will need to a bit of math to figure out what is best for you.

2. Coilover conversion. @Similarnames did a pair of these for his Capri. I bought my kit but yet to put it together. Basically, it's a threaded tube which should be the same as your strut's outside diameter. The lower spring seat screws up and down on this tube, which will allow you to adjust ride height. You will also get the top cap. Your stock springs will not work with these as they need 2.25 inch ID springs. These springs are also available on various poundages and lengths. The strut will need machine work to fit the kit and since you're mix and matching dampers and springs, it's a bit of a trial and error excersise to get the best set up.

Hope this helps.

dingy · July 9, 2014

Macahng the thing is i did fix a set lower coils.But when ever the car went over a pot hole the shoch gets maxed out and hits the very end.

I think like u suggested the best is to go for coil overs

And have a new plan for the build as well..

Thinking of a motor swap.my plan is to swap a 4g15 sohc..your inputs will be greatly appreciated

Thank you

Komisiripala · July 9, 2014

4g15 sohc, dohc or turbo? I'm assuming sohc Orion engine? I was under the impression that's what you had all this time.

And yes, lowering springs weren't meant to work with stock shocks. Because shock travel is more you will bottom out, and damage your shocks. They will bleed out. Ty go for coilovers in the front and lowering blocks in the back. Hoonigan should be your go to expert on this. I have heard of rear independent conversions too but that might be hella expensive.

Mitsu is not my thing. I'm no amateur in it even. But a red dohc valve cover will be porn under your hood!

iRage · July 9, 2014

On 7/9/2014 at 3:44 AM, dingy said:
Macahng the thing is i did fix a set lower coils.But when ever the car went over a pot hole the shoch gets maxed out and hits the very end.

Uhh.....did you change over to short stroke dampers as well ? Typically with a lowering spring you are supposed to use a short stroke damper...not a standard length one. Even with a short stroke damper though you need to calculate what the lowered length of the spring could be and also a decent spring rate.

Also...if you used stock dampers with a cut springs did you use any kind of spacers ? Spcaers help the shock from hitting out like in your case but they equally suck that it is not that effective.

Edited July 9, 2014 by iRage

The Don · July 9, 2014

On 7/9/2014 at 3:44 AM, dingy said:
Macahng the thing is i did fix a set lower coils.But when ever the car went over a pot hole the shoch gets maxed out and hits the very end.
I think like u suggested the best is to go for coil overs

And have a new plan for the build as well..

Thinking of a motor swap.my plan is to swap a 4g15 sohc..your inputs will be greatly appreciated

Thank you

Whether you go DOHC or SOHC is somewhat dependent on clearences. The 4G15 is not a performance engine but its the most common Mitsubishi engine found in SL for that generation of Lancers.

May I ask why do you want to swap your engine? The 4G series didn't exist when your car was produced so quite a bit of modification will be necessary and you would need to find a wiring room and an ECU as well if you are upgrade. These days, these things cost a handy sum of money.

dingy · July 9, 2014

On 7/9/2014 at 12:37 PM, The Don said:
Whether you go DOHC or SOHC is somewhat dependent on clearences. The 4G15 is not a performance engine but its the most common Mitsubishi engine found in SL for that generation of Lancers.
May I ask why do you want to swap your engine? The 4G series didn't exist when your car was produced so quite a bit of modification will be necessary and you would need to find a wiring room and an ECU as well if you are upgrade. These days, these things cost a handy sum of money.

Yes Komi that is the plan.I have sourced an engine aswell.My main target was to do an engine swap right after the body work and pint was completed.But unfortunately my fincial status did not permit it.Plus u remember the household folk wanted the car out of there asap.

Don the 4g15 came in many varients.The SOHC carb SOHC EFI and the DOHC EFI.DOHC is quite rare here..But both the efi varients have a big tuning potential aswell as after market accessories...

According to my mechanic i will have to fabricate new mounts and a new bell housing

My main intention to do an engine swap is coz i have taken the maximum out of the old 4g11.

D

Hoonigan · July 9, 2014

On 7/9/2014 at 3:44 AM, dingy said:
Macahng the thing is i did fix a set lower coils.But when ever the car went over a pot hole the shoch gets maxed out and hits the very end.
I think like u suggested the best is to go for coil overs

And have a new plan for the build as well..

Thinking of a motor swap.my plan is to swap a 4g15 sohc..your inputs will be greatly appreciated

Thank you

This is what I meant by bottoming out sooner. As pointed out by iRage and Komi, you cannot just stick a shorter coil and call it a day. If you buy a shock with adjustable dampening, you could possible find a balance. If so, a set of good bump stops would go a long way for safety. But stiffer poundage would be a must for the coils. But as you have correctly deduced, a complete coilover will take the guesswork out and would be the best bet.

I'm not familiar with the engine you're looking for a swap but from what I gather, you're planning to run the stock gearbox, diff etc with the new engine? Look into what the tolerances are before committing, just to make sure you're not leaving any weak links.

Komisiripala · July 9, 2014

and for gods' sake don' cut the firewall!!

The Don · July 10, 2014

On 7/9/2014 at 2:16 PM, dingy said:
Yes Komi that is the plan.I have sourced an engine aswell.My main target was to do an engine swap right after the body work and pint was completed.But unfortunately my fincial status did not permit it.Plus u remember the household folk wanted the car out of there asap.
Don the 4g15 came in many varients.The SOHC carb SOHC EFI and the DOHC EFI.DOHC is quite rare here..But both the efi varients have a big tuning potential aswell as after market accessories...

According to my mechanic i will have to fabricate new mounts and a new bell housing

My main intention to do an engine swap is coz i have taken the maximum out of the old 4g11.

D

Dingy, I run the slighly more exotic 4G91 engine in my car, and its a pretty decent engine, and also the engine used if you want to play around and tweak, as it shares its design with the 4G92 (including the Mivec) and 4G93 and 4G93T which is the turbo charged variant. All these engines can be accomodated in a Mitsubishi of that generation.

But as I've written to you, I do not think the engine was in existence when the A47 was manufactured, so your engine bay is likely to be missing everything from the mounting points. Also the EFI variant will require an ECU and wiring harness and have you sourced that?

Making belhouse adapters etc can be done but if not done properly you can end up with vibrations and a weak link in the setup.

But most importantly it will destroy the original value of the car and as you know these old motors are becoming quite popular....

dingy · July 10, 2014

On 7/10/2014 at 10:28 AM, The Don said:
Dingy, I run the slighly more exotic 4G91 engine in my car, and its a pretty decent engine, and also the engine used if you want to play around and tweak, as it shares its design with the 4G92 (including the Mivec) and 4G93 and 4G93T which is the turbo charged variant. All these engines can be accomodated in a Mitsubishi of that generation.
But as I've written to you, I do not think the engine was in existence when the A47 was manufactured, so your engine bay is likely to be missing everything from the mounting points. Also the EFI variant will require an ECU and wiring harness and have you sourced that?

Making belhouse adapters etc can be done but if not done properly you can end up with vibrations and a weak link in the setup.

But most importantly it will destroy the original value of the car and as you know these old motors are becoming quite popular....

Don the wire harness is avalable only the ecu is not available..and like u said yes the mounting points and the bel housing needs fabrication.other than motor which i have selected do recommend anything else..There is a 4g63 SOHC which came with the lancer box turbo available in panchikawatte.This will of course be a direct fit.i would have gone with this but the carb is missing.He said he will find and keep it.I will upload some photos asap it looks in quite messed up condition.Plus if im not mistaken a carb turbo is kind of a hassel isnt it?? many times i have considered turbo charging mine but still could not think of a way to control engine idle

Don you have given me vast amount of knowledge which has definitly changed my approach and the angle i look at about the swap

Thank you

Edited July 10, 2014 by dingy

The Don · July 10, 2014

On 7/10/2014 at 2:20 PM, dingy said:
Don the wire harness is avalable only the ecu is not available..and like u said yes the mounting points and the bel housing needs fabrication.other than motor which i have selected do recommend anything else..There is a 4g63 SOHC which came with the lancer box turbo available in panchikawatte.This will of course be a direct fit.i would have gone with this but the carb is missing.He said he will find and keep it.I will upload some photos asap it looks in quite messed up condition.Plus if im not mistaken a carb turbo is kind of a hassel isnt it?? many times i have considered turbo charging mine but still could not think of a way to control engine idle
Don you have given me vast amount of knowledge which has definitly changed my approach and the angle i look at about the swap

Thank you

Happy to be of assistance.

The ECU wont be too difficult to find, but it helps if you know the part number. The same Engine was used in the Proton Wira so it will definitely be available from Malaysia if you have friends, for cheap as they got rid of these engines for the 4G91, 4G92

The thing is Dingy once you start cutting and modifying chassis, crossmembers, mounting points there is no going back. And you have to also take into our account our technicians often have no real experience doing these things and our machine shops are the same. Often the quality of work out of both are below standards.

I forgot about the front suspension, which might need to be upgraded as well to compensate for additional weight depending on the engine. This might be a combination of new springs and shocks though if the engine weights are close enough it does not matter.

Most conversions which require welding will start to become a hassle at some point, particularly if weight bearing items have been welded on, as rust starts to form and weaken the welds.

So my suggestion is, if you really want to upgrade, upgrade to a higher capacity engine of the same series of engines or family of engines, or just don't bother.

There are guys in Sri Lanka who can make this work for you, but their charges are so extortionate that you can buy 2 more cars by the time you are done paying their bills. So it only makes sense if you plan to race the car or if you have tons of money at home and nothing to do with it (in which case may I reccomend you just buy that nice Evo 4 in the classifieds).

dingy · July 12, 2014

On 7/10/2014 at 4:27 PM, The Don said:
Happy to be of assistance.
The ECU wont be too difficult to find, but it helps if you know the part number. The same Engine was used in the Proton Wira so it will definitely be available from Malaysia if you have friends, for cheap as they got rid of these engines for the 4G91, 4G92

The thing is Dingy once you start cutting and modifying chassis, crossmembers, mounting points there is no going back. And you have to also take into our account our technicians often have no real experience doing these things and our machine shops are the same. Often the quality of work out of both are below standards.

I forgot about the front suspension, which might need to be upgraded as well to compensate for additional weight depending on the engine. This might be a combination of new springs and shocks though if the engine weights are close enough it does not matter.

Most conversions which require welding will start to become a hassle at some point, particularly if weight bearing items have been welded on, as rust starts to form and weaken the welds.

So my suggestion is, if you really want to upgrade, upgrade to a higher capacity engine of the same series of engines or family of engines, or just don't bother.

There are guys in Sri Lanka who can make this work for you, but their charges are so extortionate that you can buy 2 more cars by the time you are done paying their bills. So it only makes sense if you plan to race the car or if you have tons of money at home and nothing to do with it (in which case may I reccomend you just buy that nice Evo 4 in the classifieds).

Don there is an Evo projet waiting to happen under my porch.its a 1998 ck2 lancer.But for the time being my current financial status cannot bare such a cost or even come close to do the conversion.But i do have plans for it in the future.

Aa for the weigh of the engine my block is cast iron but the 4g15 motor is aluminium.Found a guy who could fabrcate the mounts.now next thing is to check whether the bell housing will fit.so once thats also taken care of will proceed with the swap.

Thank you

dingy · July 13, 2014

Guys got some good news..Compared the preassure plate of the 4g15 and that of the 4g11(my current motor)and they both arethe same.Fingers crossed hopefully th bell housing will also match.

The Don · July 14, 2014

On 7/13/2014 at 10:07 AM, dingy said:
Guys got some good news..Compared the preassure plate of the 4g15 and that of the 4g11(my current motor)and they both arethe same.Fingers crossed hopefully th bell housing will also match.

I think the 4G15 is in the same family of engines as the 4G12 (the 4G1 series). So you might be in luck and this might be a simpler swap than initially anticipated. Do the engines look alike?

dingy · July 14, 2014

On 7/14/2014 at 9:34 AM, The Don said:
I think the 4G15 is in the same family of engines as the 4G12 (the 4G1 series). So you might be in luck and this might be a simpler swap than initially anticipated. Do the engines look alike?

the SOHC and mine look alike..the only difference is my distributor comes from the side while all the 4g15 have it in the back

The Don · July 14, 2014

On 7/14/2014 at 10:46 AM, dingy said:
the SOHC and mine look alike..the only difference is my distributor comes from the side while all the 4g15 have it in the back

Well then, the block itself should sit and fit fine. The only issue will be the carb and whether you have enough clearence on that side, since the engine now needs to be mounted differently to suit the rear setup. This might be more straight forward than initially anticipated. I forgot that the Orion engine is a 4G1 series engine.

dingy · July 15, 2014

On 7/14/2014 at 12:05 PM, The Don said:
Well then, the block itself should sit and fit fine. The only issue will be the carb and whether you have enough clearence on that side, since the engine now needs to be mounted differently to suit the rear setup. This might be more straight forward than initially anticipated. I forgot that the Orion engine is a 4G1 series engine.

Don the 4g15 DOHC is an efi motor..

The Don · July 15, 2014

On 7/15/2014 at 11:53 AM, dingy said:
Don the 4g15 DOHC is an efi motor..

I thought you were going with a 4G15 SOHC? There is also a carb variant of the 4G15, seen quite a lot on the brand new imports. Not a completely mechanical system I think but with some electronic control.

dingy · July 15, 2014

On 7/15/2014 at 12:52 PM, The Don said:
I thought you were going with a 4G15 SOHC? There is also a carb variant of the 4G15, seen quite a lot on the brand new imports. Not a completely mechanical system I think but with some electronic control.

Don my Ck2 has the 4g15 SOHCcarb engine.My initial plan was to buy a 4g15 twin cam efi and keep it to the ck2 and keep the ck2 single cam carb to mine.But i have big plans for the ck2 end of the year so will swap the DOHC to the a72.Plus think of all the fun and power a that motor will produce in a rear wheel drive car....

The Don · July 15, 2014

On 7/15/2014 at 3:06 PM, dingy said:
Don my Ck2 has the 4g15 SOHCcarb engine.My initial plan was to buy a 4g15 twin cam efi and keep it to the ck2 and keep the ck2 single cam carb to mine.But i have big plans for the ck2 end of the year so will swap the DOHC to the a72.Plus think of all the fun and power a that motor will produce in a rear wheel drive car....

Measure and check for clearences. Though the block is the same in all 4G1 engines, the manifolds for intake and exhaust are different, particularly ones with EFI MULTI so best to measure first and see if there is enough space in the engine bay and it clears things like the brake servo. Also the EFI engines had their airboxes on the side rather than on top of the engine.