Use long milage engine oil

[Kavvz]

31 minutes ago, thusharak340 said:

Hi @Kavvz

Explanation given by @gayanath, the user manual is mentioned to use 0W-20,   however as per your post it is not comparable to my vehicle, please can you further explain as I am going to use Mobil-1 Annual protection 0W-20 for next service

Rgds

 

@thusharak340 I didn't post further because you said you were getting confused. My apologies, sometimes too much info is bad, but since you asked I will clarify but will keep it simple:

1. For your car based on the manual above Toyota states either 5W30 or 0W20 oil is okay. It also says for best fuel economy to use 0-20W oil. 

2. So you can certainly use 0-20W mobil no problem. The 0-20W mobil annual protection oil you have referenced is a long-life oil and you should be able to use it for 20,000km no problem. I have however not used it personally yet. ( However the online reviews are good, and it has passed a lot of verification tests and mobil is a reputable company so I would go for it)

3. Only issue is will Toyota SL honour the warranty if you stretch the oil change to 20,000km? That I don't know. You will have to check that with the Toyota Agent to make sure. (If they say no, ask whether they will honour the warranty if you change the oil at 10,000km and then just stick to that interval instead)

 4. I understand this stuff is confusing.  Is language an issue? If so would you rather discuss this in Sinhalese or Tamil? I do speak Sinhalese as well so if you want to discuss this in Sinhalese no worries we can do that too. I will be glad to help. My Tamil is a bit shaky, and I won't be able to communicate much in Tamil, but if you do want assistance in Tamil I am sure another member can help clarify anything discussed here. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Kavvz

[thusharak340]

Hi @Kavvz

All are clear now and no confusion at all, considering overall, I would go synthetic oil for next service which will help to save money. however before that will check with agent where warranty is still there if I change the oil at this stage, moreover as I came to know oil change would not impact for warranty as long as use recommended specifications

Thanks a lot for you all  valuable time and resources used to explain on this topic in detail.

Rgds

 

[gayanath]

2 hours ago, thusharak340 said:

Hi @gayanath

It is tremendous explanation and all the doubts are cleared by now, 

So next service I will use  below oil so I can run up to 20K kms as guarantee given by Mobil

+++++++++

Mobil 1™ Annual Protection 0W-20, a viscosity in our lineup of top-tier extended drain full synthetic motor oils, features advanced lubricant technology that provides proven protection for 20,000 miles or one full year between oil changes, whichever comes first – guaranteed.

+++++++++

Now,... this is from practical knowledge....

There is a thumb rule... "increasing the sump capacity increasing the replacement interval and vise versa". 

Your car oil capacity is 3 L (1KR-FE engine). Which is bit small quantity compared to bit larger engines. So I suggest you to replace Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W20 at 15,000 km for the first time and see the condition rather going for 20,000 km. Decide next interval based on the results. 

  

[Kavvz]

5 hours ago, thusharak340 said:

Hi @Kavvz

All are clear now and no confusion at all, considering overall, I would go synthetic oil for next service which will help to save money.

Correct. Switching to fully synthetic oil will save money, time and be better for your car in the long run. (You will still have to check oil levels regularly though as you may have to top-up the oil between oil changes.)

Quote

however before that will check with agent where warranty is still there if I change the oil at this stage, moreover as I came to know oil change would not impact for warranty as long as use recommended specifications

But one last clarification: You are to check with Toyota Lanka whether they will honour the warranty if you change oil at 20,000km intervals instead of 10,000km intervals when using Mobil 0w-20 synthetic annual protection 20,000 mile oil. No issue with the oil itself, as the Mobil annual change recommendation / claim is for 20,000miles oil change intervals , doing 20,000km before changing the oil should be fine, the only issue is whether the local Toyota agent will be okay with that. 

I have a feeling they may say no for synthetic oil the change interval is 10,000km so please check. If they do say that then until your warranty expires I would stick with their oil change interval of 10,000km as ultimately they will have the last say. 

 

Quote

Thanks a lot for you all  valuable time and resources used to explain on this topic in detail.

Rgds

My pleasure. Glad to help. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Kavvz

[Devinda_Z]

 

6 hours ago, Amila_Silva said:

 

What you said is true. I agree with that. What I meant was people think higher the odometer value higher the engine wear and tear. Its not true always because if a person use good oil (may be synthetic) and change it regularly according to his driving pattern and drive sensibly that particular engine may be far better than a one driven by a maniac with improper service.

@Amila_Silva your point about idling has legs however to be able to gain a more scientific view of how the oil has fared (& protected the engine itself beyond visual inspection) what we ideally need to do is carry out used oil analysis

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/tests/standard-analysis/?session-id=snfax42tr1q2vlz15xhbxx45&timeout=20&bslauth=&urlbase=https%3a%2f%2fwww.blackstone-labs.net%2fBstone%2f(S(snfax42tr1q2vlz15xhbxx45))%2f

@gayanath i think we discussed this on some other thread

 

[Amila_Silva]

@thusharak340 Good news for you.

Eric has already done a video for your dilemma.
He poured Mobil1 0W 20 synthetic oil in his van and drove for an year and changed it after about 17K something miles. He has done oil analysis as well and results seems to be positive

Here is the video of him pouring Mobil1 0W 20 synthetic oil in the engine.

And here is the video of him changing the oil after 1 year and giving you the test results.

There are some good information in these two videos like even though you change oil for every 20K miles, you can't omit the other services in the vehicle such as tire rotation, under carriage wash / greasing, wheel alignment, ...etc.

 

[Kavvz]

Hi folks sorry to be a bit of a damper:

While I like Mobil products and think its awesome that they have come up with Mobil 1™ Annual Protection please note it may not be rated for your vehicle yet by the manufacturer. (Its probably okay to use to be honest, but it doesn't hurt to be well informed so please look over the following and don't kill the messenger!)

The product sheet is linked so take a look and see if it meet your manufacturer's approval. At this time unfortunately for me I can't use it in my car as it would void the warranty. (Same for Toyota users I think, the only Japanese manufacturer that approves this specific blend for use at this time is Honda and that too only for cars that take 5W-30 oil)

Mobil 1™ Annual Protection product approvals and oil specification

Edited June 24, 2020 by Kavvz

[gayanath]

8 hours ago, Kavvz said:

The product sheet is linked so take a look and see if it meet your manufacturer's approval. At this time unfortunately for me I can't use it in my car as it would void the warranty. (Same for Toyota users I think, the only Japanese manufacturer that approves this specific blend for use at this time is Honda and that too only for cars that take 5W-30 oil)

Regarding the case of @thusharak340, I don't think he has Toyota warranty because Passo is a JDM which is not importing by TL. Probably he may have another warranty like Sterling or something. 

[thusharak340]

Hi ,

I have Laugh warranty, anyway I decided to use mineral base oil 10w30 which is currently using due to below factors

1. oil price is too expensive if I shift to Synthetic oil,
2. as per my garage technician normally synthetic oil used for long running vehicles where main benefit is to fuel saving
3. Synthetic oil use for specific condition such as high temperature etc.., in my case there is no such due to short run per day

Hope you agree with my decision

Rgds

 

 

[gayanath]

14 minutes ago, thusharak340 said:

I have Laugh warranty, anyway I decided to use mineral base oil 10w30 which is currently using due to below factors

1. oil price is too expensive if I shift to Synthetic oil,
2. as per my garage technician normally synthetic oil used for long running vehicles where main benefit is to fuel saving
3. Synthetic oil use for specific condition such as high temperature etc.., in my case there is no such due to short run per day

Hope you agree with my decision

Ha ... ha.... Now you are confusing us my friend......

2,500 km per month (100 km per day) is not a short run. (You mentioned you are doing 5,000 km for two months. Isn't it?). 

Actually, synthetic oils are manufactured for the people like you because you are doing 15,000 km for 6 months (or 30,000 km for one year). Fuel saving is a different aspect (an additional advantage sometimes but not in every time).

[thusharak340]

Hi @gayanath

sorry for confusing you...

I am still in a decision making stage, please see below points and let me know your suggestion

1. I searched oil price for Mobil 1  Annual protection 0w 20, but the oil is not available in many stores
2. I could find Mobil Advance fuel economy 0w 20 which is not specially mentioned duration on it's specification, the price is Rs 10,400 4L ,
3. if I go with 10W 30 , the oil price is Rs 5,700 4L and can be done two times services when compare with above oil price

considering all those thinks you still recommend to use synthetic oil for next service ?

[gayanath]

29 minutes ago, thusharak340 said:

Hi @gayanath

sorry for confusing you...

I am still in a decision making stage, please see below points and let me know your suggestion

1. I searched oil price for Mobil 1  Annual protection 0w 20, but the oil is not available in many stores
2. I could find Mobil Advance fuel economy 0w 20 which is not specially mentioned duration on it's specification, the price is Rs 10,400 4L ,
3. if I go with 10W 30 , the oil price is Rs 5,700 4L and can be done two times services when compare with above oil price

considering all those thinks you still recommend to use synthetic oil for next service ?

Go for Toyota 0W20 synthetic which cost around Rs. 6,500 per 4 L can. Replace at 10,000 km. (if you ask from the counter, they will definitely tell you to replace 5,000 km , bla... bla... but not necessary) 

I am using same for my Aqua and replacing around 8,000 - 9,000 km because I'm doing that around 6 - 7 months. 

[thusharak340]

Hi @gayanath

That could be fair enough, OK I will follow your instructions, will keep you updated the outcome later on

Thanks a lot for your guidance

 

Rgds

 

[Devinda_Z]

4 hours ago, thusharak340 said:

Hi ,

I have Laugh warranty, anyway I decided to use mineral base oil 10w30 which is currently using due to below factors

1. oil price is too expensive if I shift to Synthetic oil,
2. as per my garage technician normally synthetic oil used for long running vehicles where main benefit is to fuel saving
3. Synthetic oil use for specific condition such as high temperature etc.., in my case there is no such due to short run per day

Hope you agree with my decision

Rgds

 

 

@thusharak340I won't weigh in on the oil since @gayanath has already suggested a course of action by which your first point will be addressed?

Regarding point 2, i don't think your technician is entirely right. Fuel saving can be a potential benefit of a lower viscosity oil (be it mineral or synthetic) in terms of how it manages friction but there are other benefits to synthetic oil in terms of the protection offered & the cleaning properties specially formulated  synthetic oils offer.

Then there is also the matter of how mineral oils breakdown or shear in comparison to the long term stability of synthetic oil

 

As for point 3, the most amount of wear is during start up so frequent short journeys or stop start movement causes more wear than low RPM cruising so your take away that synthetic is only for "harsh" conditions is invalid in that the definition of harsh may be skewed as well as the fitness for purpose of synthetic oils themselves in your view

[Amila_Silva]

@thusharak340 May I suggest you something. Oil (whatever the the type may be) is much more cheaper than an engine repair. So whatever you do, please do not cut corners when it comes to oil change. Now being you car is relatively in brand new condition with very low mileage, even though you cut corners, you will not notice it and it will take the abuse at least until it reaches 100, 000 kms. Then it becomes someone else's problem if sell at that period.

If I talk from my experience, you can use your existing Toyota oil and change it every 5000 km intervals as you are doing now and your car will be really happy. If that is too much cost for you, I think its not because of of the oil, but its the price that you have to pay for the service. Isn't it?

Now if your warranty period is ending in near future I don't think its worth to be a puppet for your service dealer (The Laugh service who told that their oil can last 20 000 kms is enough for me to understand about their attitude). If it is so, you can use any type of a oil you like and change it by yourself according to how you feel like it (Keep the bills with you) and take the car to a good service station and do the rest of the cleaning. But it is up to you. Just made a suggestion.

[Amila_Silva]

3 hours ago, Devinda_Z said:

As for point 3, the most amount of wear is during start up so frequent short journeys or stop start movement causes more wear than low RPM cruising so your take away that synthetic is only for "harsh" conditions is invalid in that the definition of harsh may be skewed as well as the fitness for purpose of synthetic oils themselves in your view

Exactly @Devinda_Z. The wear and tear of the engine while cruising in a highway is about 10% of the stop and go traffic.

[thusharak340]

Hi @Amila_Silva

Thanks for your valuable instructions, noted all those points and I planned to use Fully Synthetic oil (0W 20) from next service onward

since I can run up to 10K kms, do I need to use specific oil filter and Air filter to fit the oil or can I use currently use filters?

current oil filter ~ 0-117 ( Toyota)

Air filter ~ 17801-21060 ( Toyota)

Appreciate your suggestion

Rgds

 

 

[Amila_Silva]

7 minutes ago, thusharak340 said:

Hi @Amila_Silva

Thanks for your valuable instructions, noted all those points and I planned to use Fully Synthetic oil (0W 20) from next service onward

since I can run up to 10K kms, do I need to use specific oil filter and Air filter to fit the oil or can I use currently use filters?

current oil filter ~ 0-117 ( Toyota)

Air filter ~ 17801-21060 ( Toyota)

Appreciate your suggestion

Rgds

 

 

Lets say you are going for Mibil1 synthetic oil, then I suggest you to use the Mobil 1 oil filter since it can withstand that duration. You may be able to use the existing Toyota oil filter as well but please confirm it with the service dealer. Whatever you do, please don't use a cheap oil filter like SAKURA.

The condition of the Air filter is not related to the oil you are using. Just replace it within the same interval you used to replace it.

I believe you might not have replaced the fuel filter yet (or might have) since its relatively a new car but I usually replace it with every 3 to 4 services I do (around 10 000 to 15 000 kms). That also has nothing to do with the oil you are using but its directly related to the engine running time and the quality of fuel you are using. (I do all services by myself so I only have to worry about the price of the parts)

All other services of the car should not depend on your oil change interval. For an example, tire rotation, wheel alignment, ...etc.

[thusharak340]

Hi @Amila_Silva

If I use Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W 20, what would be the suitable oil filter reference of Mobil 1?,

Noted, Air filter is not much related to engine oil I use and will continue with same Toyota air filter,

I am using Oct 95 fuel and almost 40K kms done, thus do I need to change fuel filter by next engine tune up?  if so what would cost me

Rgds

 

[CNX]

Toyota oil filters can be used up to 10k km without any issue. Toyota Lanka changes the oil filter at 10k km intervals anyway. 

If the mileage is genuine, you can replace the fuel filter at 80k km unless you pump contaminated fuel from old petrol sheds. 

I believe your car has a 1KR FE engine which is not a very high tech engine and has been in use for around 15 years. It is not necessary to go for 0W-20 fully synthetic for these engines though it will not do any harm. 0W-20 is recommended for maximum fuel efficiency and not for any protection. Given the ambient temperature in our country will never go below freezing, the normal 10W-30  Toyota oil will be good enough for your car. The user manual/service booklet or the sticker under the hood will give an interval of 15k km or 1 year for service under normal conditions and 7.5k km or 6 months for severe conditions. In Sri Lanka 5k km service intervals are recommended as a lot of cars sit in traffic for a long time and may take over 1hour to cover 10km. In your case, based on your usage pattern, it is safe and more cost effective to stick to Toyota 10W-30 and change the oil at 7.5k km to 10k km or 6 monthly intervals. 

If you had a more modern engine like a downsized turbo, I would have recommended a 0W-20 fully synthetic as they are more sensitive to oil quality, to lubricate the turbo at low temps as well as to reduce intake valve carbon deposits. 

As for your warranty, if you read the fine print you will notice it is not worth the paper it is printed on. All the moving parts, plastic and rubber parts will not be covered. So, unless you have a cracked engine block or something similar wrong with your transmission, the warranty will not cover it! Problems of this magnitude are almost unheard of in modern Toyotas and indeed among most manufacturers apart from the Chinese within the first two years. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by CNX

[gayanath]

1 hour ago, thusharak340 said:

If I use Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W 20, what would be the suitable oil filter reference of Mobil 1?,

Don't worry about fuel filter brand until you use a reputed one. Toyota, VIC could be used without any issue. For your case, filter matters only if you are going beyond car manufacture recommended intervals for the oil. 

 

1 hour ago, thusharak340 said:

I am using Oct 95 fuel 

Wast of money. No good reason to use 95 over 92 so far. 92 is cost effective as well as suitable for your engine. 

 

1 hour ago, thusharak340 said:

almost 40K kms done, thus do I need to change fuel filter by next engine tune up?  if so what would cost me

Do not let any bullshit to touch your engine rather than replacing oil and oil filter until you clocked 100,000 km (at-least 80,000 km). Your car is a daily long range runner so risk of carbon deposit is very low compared to cars running 4 -5 kilometres per day. 

I haven't your service schedule but Toyota normally recommending 100,000 - 120,000 km ( or 5 - 6 years) intervals for fuel filter replacement. So no point of doing it that much early. 

[thusharak340]

47 minutes ago, CNX said:

Toyota oil filters can be used up to 10k km without any issue. Toyota Lanka changes the oil filter at 10k km intervals anyway. 

If the mileage is genuine, you can replace the fuel filter at 80k km unless you pump contaminated fuel from old petrol sheds. 

I believe your car has a 1KR FE engine which is not a very high tech engine and has been in use for around 15 years. It is not necessary to go for 0W-20 fully synthetic for these engines though it will not do any harm. 0W-20 is recommended for maximum fuel efficiency and not for any protection. Given the ambient temperature in our country will never go below freezing, the normal 10W-30  Toyota oil will be good enough for your car. The user manual/service booklet or the sticker under the hood will give an interval of 15k km or 1 year for service under normal conditions and 7.5k km or 6 months for severe conditions. In Sri Lanka 5k km service intervals are recommended as a lot of cars sit in traffic for a long time and may take over 1hour to cover 10km. In your case, based on your usage pattern, it is safe and more cost effective to stick to Toyota 10W-30 and change the oil at 7.5k km to 10k km or 6 monthly intervals. 

If you had a more modern engine like a downsized turbo, I would have recommended a 0W-20 fully synthetic as they are more sensitive to oil quality, to lubricate the turbo at low temps as well as to reduce intake valve carbon deposits. 

As for your warranty, if you read the fine print you will notice it is not worth the paper it is printed on. All the moving parts, plastic and rubber parts will not be covered. So, unless you have a cracked engine block or something similar wrong with your transmission, the warranty will not cover it! Problems of this magnitude are almost unheard of in modern Toyotas and indeed among most manufacturers apart from the Chinese within the first two years. 

Hi @ GNX

Thanks for your valuable inputs, considering all those, you suggest o continue same oil I use so far and run up to 7.5 K kms,  I currently use 5w 30 (sorry I mistakenly mentioned it as 10W 30 in my previous posts)

 

 

 

[thusharak340]

38 minutes ago, gayanath said:

Don't worry about fuel filter brand until you use a reputed one. Toyota, VIC could be used without any issue. For your case, filter matters only if you are going beyond car manufacture recommended intervals for the oil. 

 

Wast of money. No good reason to use 95 over 92 so far. 92 is cost effective as well as suitable for your engine. 

 

Do not let any bullshit to touch your engine rather than replacing oil and oil filter until you clocked 100,000 km (at-least 80,000 km). Your car is a daily long range runner so risk of carbon deposit is very low compared to cars running 4 -5 kilometres per day. 

I haven't your service schedule but Toyota normally recommending 100,000 - 120,000 km ( or 5 - 6 years) intervals for fuel filter replacement. So no point of doing it that much early. 

Hi @gayanath

Noted your point,  is there any possibility to track in fuel pump issue at the engine tune up stage ( normally they do scan as well),

In my experience with previous car, there was a knock while long running and car was not moving, then I stopped  engine and  started after 10 -15 minutes, them car started as normal and I was able to run another 30 -40 kms without any stop,

I met technician and requested to replace interject flugs, clear all those things and did scan as well, there wasn't any errors, I was cost about 20K for the process, but after few days the same knock was happen and engine was never started,  then only came to know that the problem was due to mulfuntion of the fuel motor which was fully of dirties

 

[CNX]

12 minutes ago, thusharak340 said:

Hi @ GNX

Thanks for your valuable inputs, considering all those, you suggest o continue same oil I use so far and run up to 7.5 K kms,  I currently use 5w 30 (sorry I mistakenly mentioned it as 10W 30 in my previous posts)

 

 

 

Yes. 

 

[Kavvz]

4 hours ago, thusharak340 said:

 

Thanks for your valuable instructions, noted all those points and I planned to use Fully Synthetic oil (0W 20) from next service onward

since I can run up to 10K kms, do I need to use specific oil filter and Air filter to fit the oil or can I use currently use filters?

current oil filter ~ 0-117 ( Toyota)

Air filter ~ 17801-21060 ( Toyota)

Appreciate your suggestion

Rgds

 

 

Same oil and air filters are fine @thusharak340 No issues there at all.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Kavvz