Post battery replacement situations of Axio and Aqua

[Buddhika Karunanayaka]

Dear Experts / Users

I wish to know post hybrid battery replacement issues in the Axio and Aqua vehicles, including following clarifications which I mentioned point wise for easyness.

1. How many KMs could I drive Axio and Aqua for hybrid battery replacement?
2. Are there any other parts replacement other than hybrid battery when replacing battery?
3. Does the car return to original condition after replacing hybrid batteries?
4. Is it easy to find batteries in sri lanka market?
5. What would the hybrid battery replacement cost for these two vehicles?
6. Which of these two vehicles is recommended for comming to Colombo on a daily basis (about 20KM)?
7. Or what vehicle do you recommend for daily commuting to Colombo?.

i highly appreciate your invlauble comments

[iRage]

I will answer some....

1. Depends on too many factors to give an actual range. In fact, it is nearly impossible to say a replacement (or even the original battery when the car is brand new) will do X km. It depends on the way you drive, how you drive, your driving frequencies, the environment you use the car in, etc...and for a replaced battery, the authenticity of the battery used, how the battery was stored from the manufacturer to transport to until it was installed in your car (which typically would have been at least a few months or years). So....how long a battery lasts is not just about the amount of kms....time and other factors above come into play. In most cases, the expectation is that the Hybrid batteries would last for an average of 5 years. But then there are some cars where the battery died out after just 2 and some that are 9 years and still counting (on the original battery).   do not get into the false belief that a battery can/will last x thousand km. 

2. Depends on the reason you are replacing the battery.

3. If you do the repairs using manufacturer-recommended parts and manufacturer-recommended process and fit everything according to specification...then yes. The problem in Sri Lanka is due to the cost of parts (and the general cheapness of people). They take shortcuts...so the owners and the mechanics do not follow the exact process recommended by the manufacturer. So if the manufacturer recommends you replace parts X,Y, and Z following processes A,B, and C with exact measurements, etc...we would just replace X and reuse Y  and Z as it is an additional cost, and the current parts look okay. On top of that, we only follow step B because steps A and C are just time-consuming as our maka baas' experience tells us more than the manufacturer's engineers. Now what happens is although part X can last 10,000km, parts Y and Z will last only 3000km more and start hurting part X. So nothing works properly now. Example is bushings on control arms. Factory fitted one lasts 8 to 10 years on average..most manufacturers recommend the replacement of the entire control arm. But because control arms are expensive it is not worth changing the entire control arm for a car they will use only for 3 - 5 years. So they just lather in a new bushing to the old control arm. Only hitch is they do not lathe it in according to factory specs. So...something that could have lasted 8 years now will last only 3 or 4.

4. Depends on the economic situation of the country. During normal times...yes. Import bans and currency fluctuations can mean difficult to find. Also....there are counterfeit and even used batteries dressed up to look like brand new ones. So make sure you buy it from a reputable shop.

6. They are both the same. Comfort wise...not much of a difference. They are both entry level vehicles. One is a hatchback the other is a sedan. The sedan feels a bit more roomy due to the shape and has a bit more luggage compartment space. The Aqua has a nicer driving feel. the chassis/frame is more chuckable. Sadly, let down by numb and slow steering feel and response. Cost efficiency wise...both would be around the same provided they are in equally/comparable condition. In the end...what would affect fuel economy would be the condition of the car and how you use it.

7. Depends on what your commute is like. Is it on highway ? normal roads ? high, moderate or low traffic ? A Hybrid car in good condition will give you slightly better fuel economy, unless you are driving at high speed on highways for long distances, then certain petrol cars would be as efficient as a Hybrid. 

This also depends on your expectations of the car....if you are planning long-term ownership for 8-10 years...then a petrol car might be a lower expense for you in the long run. Some cars you might want to consider are cars like the Lancer EX, Mazda Axela, Honda Civics, Fits. Other Hybrids in the same class/category would be the Honda Grace, Fit, and Git Shuttle (although the vehicle control system in these cars is overly sensitive and throws out too many errors too frequently), and Corolla Fielder. Typically, cars like Axios, Aquas and Vitz are overpriced and most of them are not in very good condition (used by people with low interest in maintaining it properly and dressed up by brokers to look shiny for a quick sale).

 

[Buddhika Karunanayaka]

8 hours ago, iRage said:

I will answer some....

1. Depends on too many factors to give an actual range. In fact, it is nearly impossible to say a replacement (or even the original battery when the car is brand new) will do X km. It depends on the way you drive, how you drive, your driving frequencies, the environment you use the car in, etc...and for a replaced battery, the authenticity of the battery used, how the battery was stored from the manufacturer to transport to until it was installed in your car (which typically would have been at least a few months or years). So....how long a battery lasts is not just about the amount of kms....time and other factors above come into play. In most cases, the expectation is that the Hybrid batteries would last for an average of 5 years. But then there are some cars where the battery died out after just 2 and some that are 9 years and still counting (on the original battery).   do not get into the false belief that a battery can/will last x thousand km. 

2. Depends on the reason you are replacing the battery.

3. If you do the repairs using manufacturer-recommended parts and manufacturer-recommended process and fit everything according to specification...then yes. The problem in Sri Lanka is due to the cost of parts (and the general cheapness of people). They take shortcuts...so the owners and the mechanics do not follow the exact process recommended by the manufacturer. So if the manufacturer recommends you replace parts X,Y, and Z following processes A,B, and C with exact measurements, etc...we would just replace X and reuse Y  and Z as it is an additional cost, and the current parts look okay. On top of that, we only follow step B because steps A and C are just time-consuming as our maka baas' experience tells us more than the manufacturer's engineers. Now what happens is although part X can last 10,000km, parts Y and Z will last only 3000km more and start hurting part X. So nothing works properly now. Example is bushings on control arms. Factory fitted one lasts 8 to 10 years on average..most manufacturers recommend the replacement of the entire control arm. But because control arms are expensive it is not worth changing the entire control arm for a car they will use only for 3 - 5 years. So they just lather in a new bushing to the old control arm. Only hitch is they do not lathe it in according to factory specs. So...something that could have lasted 8 years now will last only 3 or 4.

4. Depends on the economic situation of the country. During normal times...yes. Import bans and currency fluctuations can mean difficult to find. Also....there are counterfeit and even used batteries dressed up to look like brand new ones. So make sure you buy it from a reputable shop.

6. They are both the same. Comfort wise...not much of a difference. They are both entry level vehicles. One is a hatchback the other is a sedan. The sedan feels a bit more roomy due to the shape and has a bit more luggage compartment space. The Aqua has a nicer driving feel. the chassis/frame is more chuckable. Sadly, let down by numb and slow steering feel and response. Cost efficiency wise...both would be around the same provided they are in equally/comparable condition. In the end...what would affect fuel economy would be the condition of the car and how you use it.

7. Depends on what your commute is like. Is it on highway ? normal roads ? high, moderate or low traffic ? A Hybrid car in good condition will give you slightly better fuel economy, unless you are driving at high speed on highways for long distances, then certain petrol cars would be as efficient as a Hybrid. 

This also depends on your expectations of the car....if you are planning long-term ownership for 8-10 years...then a petrol car might be a lower expense for you in the long run. Some cars you might want to consider are cars like the Lancer EX, Mazda Axela, Honda Civics, Fits. Other Hybrids in the same class/category would be the Honda Grace, Fit, and Git Shuttle (although the vehicle control system in these cars is overly sensitive and throws out too many errors too frequently), and Corolla Fielder. Typically, cars like Axios, Aquas and Vitz are overpriced and most of them are not in very good condition (used by people with low interest in maintaining it properly and dressed up by brokers to look shiny for a quick sale).

 

 

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this answer, which has taken a lot of time and effort to help someone else. 

Also, while browsing the internet, I have observed that ABS system is changed when replacing the battery in many hybrid vehicles, so I would like to know your brief opinion on the same.

[iRage]

3 hours ago, Buddhika Karunanayaka said:

Also, while browsing the internet, I have observed that ABS system is changed when replacing the battery in many hybrid vehicles, so I would like to know your brief opinion on the same.

Well..there are two batteries here...

1. the standard 12V battery
Remember how in old cars, when you remove the battery, the radio is reset, and the clock goes back to zero? All because when the battery is removed these items don't get any power to keep saving its settings.

Well...modern cars have a lot more (complex) electronics than old cars with their AM/FM radios and clocks. The range from audio/video systems to traction control systems to collision avoidance systems to a whole host of others. So when the battery is taken off these systems can get reset. Sometimes when these systems get reset you need to reconfigure it. So when that happens the these systems will start indicating error messages. So in modern cars you are not supposed to just completely remove the battery to put in a new one.

2. The Hybrid battery.

All full Hybrid cars use regenerative braking. That is: when you apply the brakes, the energy it creates is sent to charge the battery. When you pull out the hybrid battery system, the regenerative braking system gets "resets" <well, not resets but goes into a weird state>, and you need to reconfigure it. So it is important that you go to a proper specialist garage who can follow the manufacturer recommended procedures to do the replacement. 

[Asanka Sandaru]

It's depend on the mileage, how many charging cycles are left, weather conditions, maintenance and your driving patterns. The Toyota gives 150K miles warranty for that which is around 250,000Kms. But in SL most of Toyota users are replacing their battery around 100,000 Km barrier due to poor maintenance and aggressive driving patterns. which is odd and they don't know the proper value of Hybrid. You can save more $$  If you're properly maintain and smoothly drive it. I'm using Toyota hybrids since 2012. Earlier I used Aqua and 3rd gen Prius. I've driven both for passing 180,000 Km barrier without having any major issues except water pump. Now I own 2014 Axio Hybrid G and it's doing 26-33Km/l. Still have original battery with 147,000Kms on it. The ride is refined, smooth and more comfortable than Aqua due to softer suspensions. More space with good legroom and head room. I'm 6ft tall also. Feel is very similar to Premio. Earlier I owned 2010 Premio as well. Switched to hybrids for better fuel economy. The only issue is Axio ground clearance is getting lower if you exceed it's gross weight. Some people are adding spacers but it's reduce comfort. These are good vehicles if you're driving it smoothly and maintain it properly. Maniac type driving styles can ruin batteries faster. Try to find a good condition low mileage car with service records history and then you can have nice ride. 

[Buddhika Karunanayaka]

16 hours ago, iRage said:

Well..there are two batteries here...

1. the standard 12V battery
Remember how in old cars, when you remove the battery, the radio is reset, and the clock goes back to zero? All because when the battery is removed these items don't get any power to keep saving its settings.

Well...modern cars have a lot more (complex) electronics than old cars with their AM/FM radios and clocks. The range from audio/video systems to traction control systems to collision avoidance systems to a whole host of others. So when the battery is taken off these systems can get reset. Sometimes when these systems get reset you need to reconfigure it. So when that happens the these systems will start indicating error messages. So in modern cars you are not supposed to just completely remove the battery to put in a new one.

2. The Hybrid battery.

All full Hybrid cars use regenerative braking. That is: when you apply the brakes, the energy it creates is sent to charge the battery. When you pull out the hybrid battery system, the regenerative braking system gets "resets" <well, not resets but goes into a weird state>, and you need to reconfigure it. So it is important that you go to a proper specialist garage who can follow the manufacturer recommended procedures to do the replacement. 

Hi... 

Well noted your valuble points and Again thank you from the bottom of my heart for this answer. 

 

 

The reason for these questions is that I previously owned an Axio Hybrid car, which I sold just before the price increase in January 2021. I then purchased an i-Auto due to its market availability. While it's a good vehicle considering its features relative to its price, I wouldn't recommend it for daily use in city traffic. I travel 40 km daily to the office via normal routes.

I'm now looking for a car with better fuel efficiency within a budget of 6-7 million. Therefore, I'm considering used Axio and Aqua models from the current market, despite the presence of some untrustworthy car dealers.

Could you recommend a vehicle for me based on these considerations?"

 

[iRage]

1 hour ago, Asanka Sandaru said:

The Toyota gives 150K miles warranty for that which is around 250,000Kms.

Never heard of this...which Toyota gives this ?

Living in Japan we bought a brand new Corolla in 2022. Toyota Japan never offered a 250,000km warranty on the car. By default it comes with 3 years for electronics and body, mechanicals 5 years. At the time of getting the road inspection done, after 3 years, we can extend the warranties. Now that the car is no longer in Japan the warranty does not exist.
** I just checked...Toyota Japan offers 5-year warranty on the Hybrid replacement battery provided it was fitted by Toyota Japan dealers. If I just buy the part and get an outsider to install it is apparently less depending on who does the installation.

I think you are mistaken at reading into American or European warranties (it says 10years/150,000miles). Please note that just because a warranty is for X years it doesn't mean they are guaranteeing that the battery will last for 10 years. All it says is that if the battery fails due to manufacturer defects they will rectify the error (which may include fixing it or replacing it). As I mentioned in my original response....there are many usage-related factors that deteriorate a battery. As a result, it might last 1 year or even more than 10. Since these may not be related to manufacturer defects, the warranty will not necessarily be applicable.

[iRage]

25 minutes ago, Buddhika Karunanayaka said:

Hi... 

Well noted your valuble points and Again thank you from the bottom of my heart for this answer. 

 

 

The reason for these questions is that I previously owned an Axio Hybrid car, which I sold just before the price increase in January 2021. I then purchased an i-Auto due to its market availability. While it's a good vehicle considering its features relative to its price, I wouldn't recommend it for daily use in city traffic. I travel 40 km daily to the office via normal routes.

I'm now looking for a car with better fuel efficiency within a budget of 6-7 million. Therefore, I'm considering used Axio and Aqua models from the current market, despite the presence of some untrustworthy car dealers.

Could you recommend a vehicle for me based on these considerations?"

 

Well...to be honest..it seems like the most logical choices would be a Hybrid Axio or Aqua. A gasoline car, in the long run it might be easier to maintain though. Hybrid at least in the short term will give you a lower petrol bill (but savings will have to be kept for attending Hybrid battery issues). So now it becomes a matter of your cash flow. If you want to consider a gasoline car look in to cars like the Axio, Lancers, Axelas or even something like the Mazda Demios, Vitz (preferably 1.3 or 1.5L variants...1L is good for sitting in traffic but not the best for actual drives)

Between the Aqua and the Axio it will be a matter of preference (see my earlier comment regarding the two cars) and practicality (sedan vs. hatchback). However, my recommendation is look for both vehicles and get whichever one is in the better condition. Try to get one with a fully documented history...service records, repair records, etc... and keep some money in the bank for preemptive repairs as well as for more significant repairs with the hybrid system. So if your aximum budget is 7 mil...you should be looking for a car around 6 to 6.25 mil range. But considering your budget...wouldn't the Axio be unattainable ?

[Buddhika Karunanayaka]

People like you should really be appreciated. There are very few people who honestly give their opinions about what they know. And a person may asks a question based on what he has learned and what he knows. There may be some people who cannot ask the question in English or understand what is being said. Regardless of the situation in our country, thank you both very much for answering me.

🙏 🙏🙏🙏 🙏 🙏🙏🙏 🙏 🙏🙏🙏 🙏 🙏🙏🙏

[Buddhika Karunanayaka]

31 minutes ago, iRage said:

Well...to be honest..it seems like the most logical choices would be a Hybrid Axio or Aqua. A gasoline car, in the long run it might be easier to maintain though. Hybrid at least in the short term will give you a lower petrol bill (but savings will have to be kept for attending Hybrid battery issues). So now it becomes a matter of your cash flow. If you want to consider a gasoline car look in to cars like the Axio, Lancers, Axelas or even something like the Mazda Demios, Vitz (preferably 1.3 or 1.5L variants...1L is good for sitting in traffic but not the best for actual drives)

Between the Aqua and the Axio it will be a matter of preference (see my earlier comment regarding the two cars) and practicality (sedan vs. hatchback). However, my recommendation is look for both vehicles and get whichever one is in the better condition. Try to get one with a fully documented history...service records, repair records, etc... and keep some money in the bank for preemptive repairs as well as for more significant repairs with the hybrid system. So if your aximum budget is 7 mil...you should be looking for a car around 6 to 6.25 mil range. But considering your budget...wouldn't the Axio be unattainable ?

Hi dear,

What do you think about  Wagon R (new model and old model), Stingray,  and Japan Alto?

I understand the 660cc. 

[iRage]

6 hours ago, Buddhika Karunanayaka said:

Hi dear,

What do you think about  Wagon R (new model and old model), Stingray,  and Japan Alto?

I understand the 660cc. 

Most of the Altos in Sri Lanka are low spec business models (i.e. vans) so they feel very basic and has very minimal features/accessories. Compared to that the Wagon R feels much refined.

They are both kei cars (i.e. 660cc with anything from 54 - 68hp depending on the spec). They are okay for city driving or if you're doing your 20km drive at low speeds. But if you try to drive it anything past 80kmph or drive it with a load, the engine is going to be overworking (so your fuel economy also won't be great as a result). Kei cars have a lot of low end torque for easy city driving. So you will be able to accelerate quickly up to about 40(ish) kmph and then it just bogs down. The Wagon R is a mild Hybrid, so most of the fuel savings come from the fact that the engine is small. The Hybrid system is more or less an assistive system for the engine to perform better. Hitch with the Wagon R's Hybrid system is if it doesn't work properly, the car is very very sluggish. It will barely move. So the whole accelerating quickly in the city is completely gone.

Being such a small and light car they are not very comfortable on long drives (compared to normal cars like the Aqua, Axio)

Alternate kei cars would be the Honda NWgn or even the Nissan Rook (or Mitsubishi eK), Daihatsu Mira, Tanto, etc...Out of all the kei cars the Hoda NWgn is probably the most refined.

As I said before...look into a kei car if you are doing mostly traffic heavy city driving. 

[Buddhika Karunanayaka]

On 6/27/2024 at 7:21 AM, iRage said:

Most of the Altos in Sri Lanka are low spec business models (i.e. vans) so they feel very basic and has very minimal features/accessories. Compared to that the Wagon R feels much refined.

They are both kei cars (i.e. 660cc with anything from 54 - 68hp depending on the spec). They are okay for city driving or if you're doing your 20km drive at low speeds. But if you try to drive it anything past 80kmph or drive it with a load, the engine is going to be overworking (so your fuel economy also won't be great as a result). Kei cars have a lot of low end torque for easy city driving. So you will be able to accelerate quickly up to about 40(ish) kmph and then it just bogs down. The Wagon R is a mild Hybrid, so most of the fuel savings come from the fact that the engine is small. The Hybrid system is more or less an assistive system for the engine to perform better. Hitch with the Wagon R's Hybrid system is if it doesn't work properly, the car is very very sluggish. It will barely move. So the whole accelerating quickly in the city is completely gone.

Being such a small and light car they are not very comfortable on long drives (compared to normal cars like the Aqua, Axio)

Alternate kei cars would be the Honda NWgn or even the Nissan Rook (or Mitsubishi eK), Daihatsu Mira, Tanto, etc...Out of all the kei cars the Hoda NWgn is probably the most refined.

As I said before...look into a kei car if you are doing mostly traffic heavy city driving. 

Dear Mr.

I agreed your all advises and thoese are helps me a lot to uderstand how we select vehicle and how we think about vehicle technically.  Are you in automoble sector? You are a genuing getliman to serve society in one way as I undestood upto now. So, Keep this good work forever. All the very best . May all your thoughts and wishes come true in the same way. Have a healthy tomorrow.

[iRage]

On 6/28/2024 at 1:16 PM, Buddhika Karunanayaka said:

Dear Mr.

I agreed your all advises and thoese are helps me a lot to uderstand how we select vehicle and how we think about vehicle technically.  Are you in automoble sector? You are a genuing getliman to serve society in one way as I undestood upto now. So, Keep this good work forever. All the very best . May all your thoughts and wishes come true in the same way. Have a healthy tomorrow.

You are welcome. All the best with your purchase. Let us know what you decide and we love seeing pictures of cars