Breaks Stopped Working All Of A Sudden - Back On Working In 5 Mins

TharakaWi · May 4, 2009

I ran across a very strange problem. All of a sudden, my breaks stopped working (i have a starlet-reflect). I was able to push the break paddles to the very bottom - with no result.

I managed to stop the car, and immediately checked breakoil - i had enough oil... Then I started the car - breaks were back on!

Any idea what's wrong?

know a good garage for these type of work?

Edited May 4, 2009 by TharakaWi

MasterDon · May 4, 2009

i think it's because of your brakes heating up...nothing major...it happens under constant braking or hard braking...works fine when it's back to normal temparature

a few tips though...dont let the brakes do all the work,try shifting down a gear or two,when needed to slow down,specially when coming downhill.

TharakaWi · May 4, 2009

Hm, my car is auto gear... so shifting gears wouldn't do... Are u guyz sure tht this is something trivial like that? I was terrified when i got it!!! I usually drive at above avg speeds, and fortunately when i came across this problem, I had just pumped petrol and putting my car slowly from the petrol shed to the gall road. If I had come-across this while i was normally driving - god knows wht would hav happend!

I asked one mechanic, he said that the reason could be a problem with the washers. Seems like he wanna blindly replace the "break kit". I am not interested in blindly replacing something - i wanna find the exact problem, coz it's quite dangerous to have even a random issue like this

MasterDon · May 4, 2009

TharakaWi said:
Hm, my car is auto gear... so shifting gears wouldn't do... Are u guyz sure tht this is something trivial like that? I was terrified when i got it!!! I usually drive at above avg speeds, and fortunately when i came across this problem, I had just pumped petrol and putting my car slowly from the petrol shed to the gall road. If I had come-across this while i was normally driving - god knows wht would hav happend!

ah in that case...my previous post doesn't apply as there was no hard braking involved.....some possibilities do come to mind but i'll refrain from making wild guesses because i'm no expert.

TharakaWi · May 5, 2009

Any more ideas ???

Also any good mechanic place?

pradfred · May 5, 2009

TharakaWi said:
Any more ideas ???
Also any good mechanic place?

Does not matter mate.

Its a dangerous problem, please take the car to any decent garage and get it checked.

Or else DO NOT DRIVE IT.

As HelRazr says can be many things and easiest thing is to get the whole system checked. Also check the DOT rating of the brake oil you have.

TharakaWi · May 5, 2009

Yeah i know... v. dangerous

Any good place I can go? I went to two places

place 1 : That guy without removing a nut says "we have to remove some entire break kit"

place 2 : This guy runs the car, hit the break and says "It's a random issue. If it comes again, bring it to me. It will most probably not come again. Do not worry"

I found listening the these mechanics v.funny. I need to goto a place where there is one or two good guys. Atleast someone who knows the things

Miyuru Daminda · May 5, 2009

If brake fluid is in bad condition ( old, contaminated..) it is more likely to boil fluid in low temperatures that cause sudden brake loss.

When did you changed brake fluid? Normally brake fluid should change in every 2 years or 20000km.

Saturn · May 5, 2009

TharakaWi said:
I ran across a very strange problem. All of a sudden, my breaks stopped working (i have a starlet-reflect). I was able to push the break paddles to the very bottom - with no result.
I managed to stop the car, and immediately checked breakoil - i had enough oil... Then I started the car - breaks were back on!

Any idea what's wrong?

know a good garage for these type of work?

When brakes failed... did the pedal behave differently? i.e. was it very hard or just like normal? If it was hard maybe the brake booster had a glitch??

In my car, sometimes if I pump the brake pedal a bit, brake boost goes down.. especially if the vehicle is idle..

Can you give a more detailed explanation of what happened, particularly the feel of the pedal? also what was the vehicle doing at the time? what gear were you on? how fast were you going?

All the same, better take to a decent garage and ask them to check brakes. You can ask them to bleed the system I guess

TharakaWi · May 5, 2009

Yeah - I was going v.slow at that moment... Just turning to the galle road. (I had pumped petrol few mins before tht) . The break pedal just went down without stopping! - it was just like pushing the accelerator - for a second i thought i am actually pressing the accelerator...

However, I later noticed that I hadn't put enough water for the coolent. Could that had been related to this?

TharakaWi · May 5, 2009

Miyuru Daminda said:
If brake fluid is in bad condition ( old, contaminated..) it is more likely to boil fluid in low temperatures that cause sudden brake loss.
When did you changed brake fluid? Normally brake fluid should change in every 2 years or 20000km.

I changed my breakoil 6 months back. It was in good colour when i checked

Miyuru Daminda · May 5, 2009

TharakaWi said:
Yeah - I was going v.slow at that moment... Just turning to the galle road. (I had pumped petrol few mins before tht) . The break pedal just went down without stopping! - it was just like pushing the accelerator - for a second i thought i am actually pressing the accelerator...
However, I later noticed that I hadn't put enough water for the coolent. Could that had been related to this?

There can't be a direct relation between coolant and break. May be a break bind may cause brake fluid overheat.

Even you can check it

Assume that your car is front wheel drive

To check front wheels

Apply hand brake and gear to neutral

jack right front wheel and check wheel is rotating freely, then do same for left

Shift gear to 1st

release hand brake

jack right rear wheel ......then left

if there is a brake bind you can feel it

simple as that, however do this only on flat road

if you don't like to get ur hands dirty, just visit a good mechanic. If there is no brake bind next thing that you need to check is master pump ......

Edited May 5, 2009 by Miyuru Daminda

Ripper · May 5, 2009

HelRazor said:
i think it's because of your brakes heating up...nothing major...it happens under constant braking or hard braking...works fine when it's back to normal temparature
a few tips though...dont let the brakes do all the work,try shifting down a gear or two,when needed to slow down,specially when coming downhill.

this happened to me once and scared the hell outta me... was doing about 100 near the colombo uni on a sunday and a freakin biker cop cut across the road like a total idiot..

slammed the brakes but there was nothing...absolutely nothing... managed to down shift and take evasive action... luckily the road was empty so no issues...

i stopped the car to check what was off... and even the darn wheels were so bloody hot... could feel the heat off the discs The 1.5 litre water bottle i carry got the matter sorted...

so not everytime i speed and do some hard braking... try to give some time for the discs and the pads to cool off....

on topic...

can it be air trapped in the braking system?

If things are normal at times...i suppose you can rule out a leak or anything wrong with your bushes and stuff...

if the booster pump failed the pedal shouldn't feel "light"

If i were you i'd try to to drain the fluid again from a normal garage and refill and test it...

if it happens again after this too i'd take it to the agents

GearHead · May 5, 2009

if i were you i would go down the path which Miyuru Daminda suggested...

take the car you a good/modern garage.most of them have the right equipment to check the condition/quality of the brake fluid.Its an electronic device and would it gives you an accurate reading..

HardHat · May 5, 2009

TharakaWi

any modern vehicle has got at least two independant circuits (break oil lines) serving front pair and rear pair of wheels seperately so if you totally lost breaks the problem could be at the break pump / master cylinder / break oil reservoir, and not at any of the wheels

if air is trapped in one of the hydraulic lines you should still get breaks at at least two wheels, be it front or rear depending on which circuit has trapped air. furthermore, if air is trapped then it doesn't come back to normal by it's own - you definitely need to bleed the air out. So I think we can rule out trapped air

if the pedal felt light and went all the way down with normal or lesser effort that normal, then we can rule out any problem with the break booster or the vaccum as well

I assume your Starlet has got disks at front and drums at rear. So chances of a break bind which could heat up the oil throughout the entire break circuit are remote. Furthermore if break oil was heated up then it takes a bit of time to cool down and breaks wouldn't have come back to normal quite quick as you mentioned

I would first check the break oil reservoir. If any piece of dirt or a foreign object is trapped in the reservoir, it could have temporarily jammed the oil supply from the reservoir to the master pump

if the resevoir is clean, then I would get the ABS checked (if the car is equipped with ABS that is). You are not supposed to loose all breaks at a failure of ABS but that's wherer the next suspicion is on, based on your description of what happened. It could be a simple problem like the ABS temporarily loosing power supply due to a loose connection, or something far serious like the ABS pump jamming. However, if this was the problem, you should get the ABS warning light flashing or lit up in your dash when the problem occurs

next step would be to get the master pump checked

Having said all the above, as this is a life-threatning problem, get the full system checked but make sure the mechanics take the above sequence or at least pay attention to the above probabilities and not simply replace brake pads and washers and charge you top $$$ while the problem may still exist

Edited May 5, 2009 by HardHat

HardHat · May 5, 2009

Miyuru Daminda said:
Shift gear to 1st
release hand brake

jack right rear wheel ......then left

as for this car being an AUTO, keep the gear lever at "P"

BTW TharakaWi, you can very much 'down shift' in a vehicle with AUTO transmission as well. However, because you haven't got clutch control, you need to find out by trial and error at which speeds it is safe to down shift from D to 4 - 3 - 2 - L / D - 3 - 2 - L or D - 2 - L (depending on what configuration you've got with your car), without over-revving the engine. If you are upto it, a much more scientific way of finding out the 'shift-points' is to start on a straight road from a stand-still and keep the accelerator floored (well almost - say give the hardest acceleration you would give without blowing up the engine) and to note the speeds at which the auotbox shifts gears

I think the Starlet is a 4 Speed auto with a D - 2 - L configuration at the shifter, so if you are down shifting from D to 2 then you are coming down two gears at one go, so do it with good judgement of your speed

as for driving downhill - definitely be at a lower gear and foot off the breaks - not at D and foot continously on the breaks

Edited May 5, 2009 by HardHat

TharakaWi · May 5, 2009

Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate all you guys feed back. - I think what Hardhat says makes good sense...

Ok guys - do u know a good garage near bamba, kirulopena area? Or anywhere else close... ?

TharakaWi · May 5, 2009

any good garage guys? doesn't have to be the best in the country , as long as there are good mechanics?

TharakaWi · May 5, 2009

If it is against the forum ethics to put a garage, please message me...

Thanks a lot in advance

Devinda_Z · May 5, 2009

just a start its worth getting the brake oil flushed and the system bled i recon...

GearHead said:
take the car you a good/modern garage.most of them have the right equipment to check the condition/quality of the brake fluid.Its an electronic device and would it gives you an accurate reading..

doesn't always have the desired results machan - used it and it deemed the oil was suitable to use as it was well within the tollerances , but flushed it anyway and that rectified an issue with brake feel sensitivity and levels of bite offered

Devinda_Z · May 5, 2009

Ripper said:

i stopped the car to check what was off... and even the darn wheels were so bloody hot... could feel the heat off the discs The 1.5 litre water bottle i carry got the matter sorted...

so not everytime i speed and do some hard braking... try to give some time for the discs and the pads to cool off....

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go easy on the water - might encourage the disks to warp if you do too much of that

miniace · May 6, 2009

It could be as result of brake vapour lock.As a result of exessive heat generated in fluid.This is common to Auto boxed vehicles.Or servo related.

Best to get all fluid checked and changed.most of the garages got the Brake fluid testers supplied by Wurth.Check the Power brake booster proportioning valve, delay valve Etc.Not difficult job for a good mechanic.Get it done soon.

MINIACE

TharakaWi · May 6, 2009

Thanks all you guys for your valuable replies. I really appreciate them all. I will visit to this place one of you guys PMed me . Since I read all ur informative posts now I know what would mechanic do, and if he doesn't I can make suggestions

I will keep you guys updated

Edited May 6, 2009 by TharakaWi

maithri · May 9, 2009

Hi,

Just my 2 pennies worth, as you were driving in town and not doing a lot of constant braking ask your garage/mechanic to also look out for a wheel bearing(razor?) with excessive play, or even a partially siezed piston on a brake wheel cylinder or a caliper letting go suddenly. What ever you do have it throughly investigated as sudden brake loss in an automatic car can be very dangerous.

If decending a hill in an auto please use the lower gear 2 or 3 rather than D even 1 if it is very steep to allow engine braking and use the foot brake sparingly only when needed.

Maithri