Second-hand Car Market: Myth And Manipulation????

[xXx]

you can't say the same thing about 2nd hand market dealers. now there are lot of small timers with nothing else but a bit of cash in hand and make millions a month out of the 2nd hand market. i know this quite well coz i was in the market recently both selling and buying a vehicle.

You are corect my freind. These small timers have been the biggest headache in the industry. I know so many retierd individuals channeling their EPF money for similar ventures same apply to people with decent day jobs.

[isurujosh]

You are corect my freind. These small timers have been the biggest headache in the industry. I know so many retierd individuals channeling their EPF money for similar ventures same apply to people with decent day jobs.

you can't really blame them. it's market economy and they are not doing anything illegal. what happens in financial markets is lot worse in terms of ethical standards. when i here about goldman-sachs, i think these blood-sucking dealers are lot better.

[Sylvi]

you can't really blame them. it's market economy and they are not doing anything illegal. what happens in financial markets is lot worse in terms of ethical standards. when i here about goldman-sachs, i think these blood-sucking dealers are lot better.

All Members,

I informed last night about the circular issued by the Commissioner Mr, Wijeratne Amendments to motor Vehicles under 2008 number 9 About categorizing of Vehicles from 2010 3rd of May.

I came across this 3 pages Sinhala Circular issued by him informing to any person who will be registering a Vehicle what category that Vehicle will come in future.

The Circular clearly states categorization of Vehicles in future according to GVW, CYLINDER CAPACITY PASSENGER SEATING CAPACITY.

Further more at last the circular informs no more Certificate of ownership will be issued in future what already had been issued has to be handed over to RMV on future transfers.

In Sinhala the circular says (Ananyatha Pathrayak nikuth nokanana bawath) AS what I understand is no more VIC.

I spoke to one Assistant Director in Customs he is not sure their will be any duty changes till they start work on Monday morning.

As for my knowledge unregistered Vehicles with this categorization will come into to effect on Monday VAT 12.5% WILL GO UP TO 20%.

This is the answer when I spoke to few unregistered Vehicle dealers say. Unregistered Vehicles selling cost will increase thereby prices of unregistered Vehicles will go up.Then all unregistered Vehicle dealers will have to pay extra 8% more Vat.

If it is so all of us who was expecting reduction of motor vehicle prices will have to pay more Rupees and Cents.

This only my view If I am wrong on the above comment I apologize for same.

Wijesinghe.

[xXx]

you can't really blame them. it's market economy and they are not doing anything illegal. what happens in financial markets is lot worse in terms of ethical standards. when i here about goldman-sachs, i think these blood-sucking dealers are lot better.

machang things lead to the financial crisis is in a whole different league. from investment bankers coming up with dubious financial instruments to rating agency's slapping AAA ratings overlooking the risks to traders/brokers hiding vital information during transactions to compliance personnel not carrying out the due diligence it was a mad dash for the greedy land. real shame how a dozen or so institutions managed to drag the whole world economy through such a slump.

i earlier forgot to comment on your theory on local banks contributing to the bloated second hand car market. i doubt the interest rates have come down to such a low level (i don't deny the fact that they have come down from a all time high we experienced a year or so ago) nor the debt market is freely accessibly for buyers to be such irrational.

[isurujosh]

machang things lead to the financial crisis is in a whole different league. from investment bankers coming up with dubious financial instruments to rating agency's slapping AAA ratings overlooking the risks to traders/brokers hiding vital information during transactions to compliance personnel not carrying out the due diligence it was a mad dash for the greedy land. real shame how a dozen or so institutions managed to drag the whole world economy through such a slump.

i earlier forgot to comment on your theory on local banks contributing to the bloated second hand car market. i doubt the interest rates have come down to such a low level (i don't deny the fact that they have come down from a all time high we experienced a year or so ago) nor the debt market is freely accessibly for buyers to be such irrational.

during the past couple of months or so, we had HSBC, commercial bank and another couple of banks came to our office marketing personal loans and car laons at 15-16% per annum. isn't that a large improvement from where things were standing? when you consider the real rate of infaltion (not the unrealistic official one), 15-16% p.a. for loans is great. there is lot of monetizing of debt happening as wek speak now. i see cash supply growing even further in the short to long term especially due to the lack of elections in many more coming months.

Edited May 3, 2010 by isurujosh

[Rebel]

@Isurujosh - being a banker myself the phrase 'begging' doesn't quite go down well...

[isurujosh]

@Isurujosh - being a banker myself the phrase 'begging' doesn't quite go down well...

ok let me phrase it as "marketing" then

[xXx]

there is lot of monetizing of debt happening as wek speak now. i see cash supply growing even further in the short to long term especially due to the lack of elections in many more coming months.

Growth in money supply is always a good thing. But then again the strategy used for the process needs scrutiny. There's no point in printing new money that does more harm than good. I hope they can keep up this interest rate for a considerable time for private sector to take advantage of. But with the inflation on the rise again and peace deviant coming at a snail pace it'll take more than lack of elections to boost the local economy I’m afraid.

[isurujosh]

at this rate we're not going anywhere. i think we'd be stuck where we are today. i am afraid that is good enough for these same fellows to get re-elected over and over again

[kalana]

guys.. let me ask something... most people dont mind buying 1500cc car but they r dead scarred to buy a 1600cc car or 2000cc..

is there s big difference in fuel economy ?

and if i am right,there will be a tax or something for above 1500cc but i really not sure how much ...

[kalana]

guys.. let me ask something... most people dont mind buying 1500cc car but they r dead scarred to buy a 1600cc car or 2000cc..

is there s big difference in fuel economy ?

and if i am right,there will be a tax or something for above 1500cc but i really am not sure how much ...

[Sylvi]

guys.. let me ask something... most people dont mind buying 1500cc car but they r dead scarred to buy a 1600cc car or 2000cc..

is there s big difference in fuel economy ?

and if i am right,there will be a tax or something for above 1500cc but i really am not sure how much ...

Sir,

To my Knowledge lover the CC capacity you will get better KMs for a 1 Liter of fuel.

From Monday 3rd MAY 2010. RMV ISSUED A SPECIAL CIRCULAR ABOUT REGISTRATION OF VEHICLES.

According to that cars are categorized Luxury and semi luxury it is only for 1801 cc and above with luxury Tax.

D/cabs comes under Diesel 2200cc above Petrol 1800cc above are categorized semi luxury with luxury Tax.

Wijesinghe.

[Sylvi]

guys.. let me ask something... most people dont mind buying 1500cc car but they r dead scarred to buy a 1600cc car or 2000cc..

is there s big difference in fuel economy ?

and if i am right,there will be a tax or something for above 1500cc but i really am not sure how much ...

Sir,

To my Knowledge lover the CC capacity you will get better KMs for a 1 Liter of fuel.

From Monday 3rd MAY 2010. RMV ISSUED A SPECIAL CIRCULAR ABOUT REGISTRATION OF VEHICLES.

According to that cars are categorized Luxury and semi luxury it is only for 1801 cc and above with luxury Tax.

D/cabs comes under Diesel 2200cc above. Petrol 1800cc above are categorized semi luxury with luxury Tax.

Wijesinghe.

[harshansenadhir]

Sir,

To my Knowledge lover the CC capacity you will get better KMs for a 1 Liter of fuel.

Wijesinghe.

not entirely correct, you have to factor the weight of the vehicle into consideration (power/weight ratio). Imagine of a 2 ton vehicle fitted with 1100 cc engine, that'll return worse mpg than to a similar vehicle with 2000cc engine.

[Ripper]

not entirely correct, you have to factor the weight of the vehicle into consideration (power/weight ratio). Imagine of a 2 ton vehicle fitted with 1100 cc engine, that'll return worse mpg than to a similar vehicle with 2000cc engine.

wrong. he's talking about lover CC capacity... i doubt that's engine displacement

[harshansenadhir]

wrong. he's talking about lover CC capacity... i doubt that's engine displacement

LOL, well.. reading that as lower CC capacity aint that hard when you have the silvy emulation mode switched on.

[Sylvi]

wrong. he's talking about lover CC capacity... i doubt that's engine displacement

Sir,

He is talking about a car. Cars today are manufactured with very low weight like Maruti. 800 cc 3 cylinder engines.

Wijesinghe.

[Ripper]

guys.. let me ask something... most people dont mind buying 1500cc car but they r dead scarred to buy a 1600cc car or 2000cc..

is there s big difference in fuel economy ?

and if i am right,there will be a tax or something for above 1500cc but i really am not sure how much ...

well the higher displacement - crappy fuel economy thing is not entirely true.

some modern day engines are far economical than some older engines even with lesser cylinder capacity.

i have to friends with 2.5liter cars... one is a fellow member VVTI who drives a BMW 3 series, straight 6 auto and he gets about 7~8kmpl in colombo driving.

The other friend has a skyline v35 V6 auto and he too get 8kmpl in colombo

I have a 1500cc manual and i get slightly over 10 in Colombo...

So this displacement devil isn't as dark as it's made to look like

but on a bad note... the market perception of higher displacement cars is generally not too positive for fuel economy figure hunters.

That's one of the reasons that it's a little tough to sell 2000cc and up cars when compared to the usual 1500cc ones

Also luxury tax is levied only for a certain number of years from the first date of registration... I think it's 7 years or something like that and each year the tax percentage gets reduced

[Ripper]

Sir,

He is talking about a car. Cars today are manufactured with very low weight like Maruti. 800 cc 3 cylinder engines.

Wijesinghe.

Sir

The Maruti is just one car model. And i doubt the reason for keeping the weight down is for the benefit of the end consumer but mostly to cut costs from the manufacturers end. The car you mention is a very basic one with very little luxuries or even basics. They have made it like that to cater to a certain market segment who are very price sensitive. This point of yours doesn't do much to prove higher displacement cars are worse or lower displacement ones are better.

Ripper

[Sylvi]

Sir

The Maruti is just one car model. And i doubt the reason for keeping the weight down is for the benefit of the end consumer but mostly to cut costs from the manufacturers end. The car you mention is a very basic one with very little luxuries or even basics. They have made it like that to cater to a certain market segment who are very price sensitive. This point of yours doesn't do much to prove higher displacement cars are worse or lower displacement ones are better.

Ripper

Sir,

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT.

Wijesinghe>

[isurujosh]

guys.. let me ask something... most people dont mind buying 1500cc car but they r dead scarred to buy a 1600cc car or 2000cc..

is there s big difference in fuel economy ?

and if i am right,there will be a tax or something for above 1500cc but i really am not sure how much ...

i assume your question was on petrol cars.

1600cc: i think there's hardly any difference between this and 1500cc as long as configurations other than the cylinder capacity are not too different. case and point a mazda n.a. DOHC 1600cc engine is not too different from 1500cc engine.

1600cc-1800cc: typically will be more thirsty than 1500cc car because a typical 1800cc car (eg: YOM 2000 premio) will be heavier than a typical 1500cc car(eg: YOM 2000 corolla). that said, if the car is underpowered for it's weight then the 1800cc could even be more fuel efficient than the same 1500cc car. so here the final determinant of fuel efficiency is power/torque-to-weight ratio and absolute weight of the car.

1800cc-2000cc: this is where another dimension than the points outlined under 1600cc-1800cc class come into act. "tax"! you have to pay an annual semi-luxury tax for 7 years. it starts-off with 25,000 first year and reduces by 2500 every year.

>2000cc: same as 1800cc-200cc class, but the luxury tax is higher.

i think comparing a new model 2500cc car's fuel efficiency with an older generation 1500cc car and assessing relative fuel efficiency is not realistic. i'd rather compare cars of same generation and technology.

in conclusion: holding everything else constant a lighter car with a smaller engine and possibly fewer cylinders will always be more fuel efficient than the opposite, as long as the car is not under-powered. if the car is under-powered then it will be less fuel efficient despite it's smaller engine.

Edited May 5, 2010 by isurujosh

[Pericles]

How to smash this argument

Mine : 2 door 1600cc hatch - 10kmpl long distance

Madz : 4 door 1800cc saloon, luxel, heavier than mine. 17kmpl long distance

In both cases, driver = me

In short generalization that lighter car with smaller cc engine is better on fuel than heavier car with larger cc engine = Wrong.

[isurujosh]

How to smash this argument

Mine : 2 door 1600cc hatch - 10kmpl long distance

Madz : 4 door 1800cc saloon, luxel, heavier than mine. 17kmpl long distance

In both cases, driver = me

In short generalization that lighter car with smaller cc engine is better on fuel than heavier car with larger cc engine = Wrong.

do you need to be reminded that a VZR's (N1 or not, i don't know) engine is optimized for performance and that a luxel's is for fuel efficiency and tractability? i don't see how a comparision of apples and oranges is going to make any sense. it seems that you have overlooked the phrases "as long as configurations other than the cylinder capacity are not too different" and "holding everything else constant" in my post. that is basic comprehension in my book. my generalisation was a "qualified" one.

Edited May 6, 2010 by isurujosh

[Sylvi]

How to smash this argument

Mine : 2 door 1600cc hatch - 10kmpl long distance

Madz : 4 door 1800cc saloon, luxel, heavier than mine. 17kmpl long distance

In both cases, driver = me

In short generalization that lighter car with smaller cc engine is better on fuel than heavier car with larger cc engine = Wrong.

Sir,

YOUR COMMENT (How to smash this argument).

My personal view is no point arguing on a issue.

Give your verdict without Trying to Smash a Argument.

Wijesinghe.

[Pericles]

do you need to be reminded that a VZR's (N1 or not, i don't know) engine is optimized for performance and that a luxel's is for fuel efficiency and tractability? i don't see how a comparision of apples and oranges is going to make any sense. it seems that you have overlooked the phrases "as long as configurations other than the cylinder capacity are not too different" and "holding everything else constant" in my post. that is basic comprehension in my book. my generalisation was a "qualified" one.

Awwww.... Did you take that personally? I wasn't replying directly to your post, and I didn't take yours as a generalization. Can't help it if you forcibly put that cap on. And FYI, the far greater factor in my comparison has less to do with the engine and a lot more with the gearing. That luxel has a CVT, the VZR has a shorter ratio box than a standard runner. Hence the comparison of outstation runs, where the difference becomes even more pronounced.

But if you want your apples to apples comparison, Madmax owned both my VZR and a 1800 Civic SiR Sedan at the same time. He said the 1800 did much better on fuel. The SiR engine (I forget the designation) is also a performance optimized engine. Happy now?

Actually, we don't even need to go that far. We were just discussing it in the Proton Gen2 thread, where more than one person cautioned not to just assume the 1300cc version is more fuel efficient that the 1600cc. And here we are talking about the identical car with different engine.

Sir,

YOUR COMMENT (How to smash this argument).

My personal view is no point arguing on a issue.

Give your verdict without Trying to Smash a Argument.

Wijesinghe.

Well gee Sylvi, you seem to have mistaken me for someone who gives a rats a$$ about your personal views! I wasn't "trying" to smash anything (btw, its an argument, tho I'm sure I don't need to tell you that coz you know good English). It doesn't require a lotta "trying" to break the argument that smaller cc engines produce better fuel efficiency. I get 7kmpl city running with no AC on a 1600. A 2000cc V6 Cefiro will get you better milage even with AC.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Pericles