Second-hand Car Market: Myth And Manipulation????

[Killer-B]

What is the current rate for FB-15. There was sudden increase of the price during last few weeks. I think car sellers knew the tax reduction in advance

Still between 1.7-1.8mil........ what about the V I P model? I came across a decent Sunny V I P recently.... The seller was asking 1.8mil.... still too much

Edited June 4, 2010 by Killer-B

[xXx]

In some countries you can trade in your old vehicle to get a certain amount off for a new vehicle at the dealers. The dealer will most likely sell it at a vehicle auction, unless its exceptionally good and can be resold on their lot. They're then snapped up by car sales guys at ultra low prices and resold with a thumping price. I am not sure if hte dealer trade-in system exists in SL, but I don't think so.

SeanD trade-in system does exist here in SL both at recon car sales and at brandnew dealerships (i.e. D*MO, UniMO etc) and it has existed for years and years. Just like anywhere else in the world hardest part is to agree upon a price for the car that is to be replaced. Dealerships overseas even have specialized individuals called 'finishers' that are utilized during final negotiations.

[xXx]

I heard there are such places and want to find them.

I should tell this story for the benefit of the members I think. I will not mention details or particulars of identity of the persons concerned apart from my identity. I went to see a vehicle advertised recently. It was a Honda and apparently the first owner, who was a certain professional was selling it. As I am in the same trade and a professional in the same rank, I trusted and went ahead to see the vehicle. A third person, who is a very nice polite gentleman, soft spoken showed me the vehicle and he seemed a very honest guy. He said that he is one of the best friends of the professional and selling it on behalf of him. He was very reasonable and showed some minor flaws of the vehicle. As I have done my homework regarding the particular 7th generation Honda sedan, I wanted to check CVT gear problems and steering rack problems. He also guided me to run the tests and everything was seems to be smooth except for few problems. As I am paranoid about CVT issues I wanted to check Staford records and he nicely evaded the topic. Car was in a very good shape and condition.

We agreed on a price tag of 2.725 mil. He did not want to reduce the price to 2.7 mil as the current bloated value by sale owners for this vehicle swings around that value. He never mentioned a tranny issue when we closed the deal. Just mentioned that he has changed the oil.

I gave him an advance but was clever enough to call my fellow professional although I have never spoken to him before. The professional have sold the car for mere 2.2 mil 2 days ago. The gentleman was told that the car has a CVT problems and the current market for that car is 2.2-2.3 mil. In fact the car was having some vibration, when it runs from idle position and Stafford has told the gent that it need a replacement of the CVT, when it dies soon. They have done the oil change several times and just after the change it runs smoothly only 1 or 2K before getting the issue again.

So I contacted the seller. I confronted him bluntly and very directly and asked him whether he replaced the gearbox after buying the car. He was stunned and couldn't lie in that tight situation. He said no. He has only done a oil change. I said I would check Stafford before buying and he said OK.

The car was well known to Stafford and it had CVT issues.

The pathetic part was he got the car through one of the good friends of the professional. He trusted them fully and feared the imminent doom to the CVT. So he told the whole truth about the tranny to them. Later he was told that they replaced the CVT for 400000 and then will sell the car for 2.7 mil. Later again he was told they have done change of a valve inside the tranny. What a lie! he had done only an oil change. He is selling it for 2.7+ mil using the good name of the professional and milking money, while the honest professional has already sold it for lesser price considering the CVT issue.I have asked for a refund of the advance . He gave it without any hesitancy and was very polite. I am sure he will sell it either to a poor person who trust his conduct or another sale owner out of the few, who were lurking around when I was checking the car.

Myself and other colleague checked the market price for that Honda (2003) from various sources. I checked with few sale owners, I met before, through phone, who quoted 2.7-2.8 mil for similar car (not a penny less). I acted as if I wanted sell my Honda. Surprise surprise! Market value was 2.3-2.2 mil. They pointed out the difficulties of selling vehicles in current market. Imminent price drop! And yet wanted to see the car.

Another car sale owner has a white Honda 2003 sedan around kohuwala junction. 2.85 mil He said he can not reduce the price even a penny as he bought it for almost 2.7 plus few days ago. I know it was overpriced but set it as the benchmark price for this week. When asked the price again on Sunday suddenly the price was 3.0 mil. So who make that price hike? The seller himself!

Well the moral of the story! Decide yourselves!

We are honest people, who earns our money honestly. not by fraudulent manners. I think it is high time to come out with similar stories. And it is high time for us to have auction or garage sale type of places to sell secondhand vehicles. I do not mind paying money for a good car. I can even go for a 10 mil car with a cash deal any day. But as a sensible person I wanted to buy a mid priced car just to go from A to B. For that I do not want to feed these filthy sharks some money for nothing but for their lies and dishonesty.

I am seriously thinking to go back to the country, I came from to serve this country as a patriot after the conclusion of the war. People there were not Buddhists or spirituals. But at least they were honest beyond imagination when you consider the status of our lovely home land currently fallen into.

kaushama buying a second-hand car is a tough process regardless of where you are based in this planet. Infact buying anything that has been used is very challenging since it is hard to determine or quantify the amount of wear. Since motor cars have lot of moving bits and bobs it just make things even more complicated.

I am not trying to justify the actions of the 'broker' you mention in your story. But as the buyer it is your duty (and for your own good) to do your research instead of relying on sellers own words. Drawing an example from your own experience if you are that paranoid about CVT boxes you should have hired the services of a professional to make an evaluation of the condition of the car. I don't understand why people can't spend few thousand rupees for an inspection before making a few million rupee purchase.

Going back to your sister’s story, a buyer trying his best to reduce the price of a car is a natural phenomenon. I'm sure you yourself must have given it a shot when hunting for a car. People need to realize that motor cars are not like government bonds. You can’t simply cash them in as and when you please. You need to give it some time especially if you are after the current fair market value.

Talking about fair market value, lot of blame has been passed towards car sales guys for bloating the market price of cars. Let me pose one simple question for you guys, When it’s time for you to sell your own car would you sell it bellow the market price (still for a profit) because it is artificially bloated????? In that sense isn't it unfair only to blame the 'car sale guys' for the market manipulation??????

[kaushama]

Agreed! I never trust sale owners or brokers. But till up to now I respected and believed professionals and well educated people. Well!

I did my research even I trusted the seller as I am very intelligent to see through some awkward happenings. I told this story as a part of my life experience and to build up a database for AL members to be aware of.

I accepted the price of 2.7 mil when I knew the current price is too much. In fact when I see a car when the seller says give your offer, I feel very bad to depreciate as sale guys do. What I say is "rather than going back and forth tell me your best price!"

But who manipulates the market price for a start? It is a very organized collective move with these sale owners! Can I say that I am going to sell my hatchback for 2.5 mil suddenly? Without any reason? I do not buy a similar car for 16-17 mil from poor domestic owners and sell it for 2.2mil!

When I was in UK buying a secondhand car was not a problem unless you buy it from non-British brokers. They have MOTs and people are honest to tell the shortcomings. When I bought my Jag from an English gentleman he was so honest that I felt so comfortable with the deal. It never gave me trouble.

As I told before bad social trends can become order of the day or business ethics, when majority follows unacceptable behaviors. For example what is the value of the rule that one can not walk on the rail track? So current way of thinking is that I do my nasty bit when I do business. Its business! If you are clever catch me or else I will get you! If you are honest to trust me hard luck and I am very successful in my business! If you catch me? Ok It is business! It is how we do business!

Well I am alien to these kind of practices and many people are. We just make people; who can do these kind of tactics, very successful businessman with our hard earned money, not because we are less clever than them. Because we are honest and innocent than them!

Edited June 5, 2010 by kaushama

[SeanD]

When I was in UK buying a secondhand car was not a problem unless you buy it from non-British brokers. They have MOTs and people are honest to tell the shortcomings.

People in the UK must lead a charmed life...

I've lived in the US for the better part of the decade, and wheeled and dealed buying used cars in several different states on my behalf and that of others. Most of what I went through (at both large dealerships, and single lot dealerships), together with the nickle-and-diming I had to go through when selling these cars to both private parties and as trade-ins, makes dealing with the SL folks mentioned in this thread something to almost look forward to. It had nothing to do with their nationality, either. In fact, I found the recent immigrants less likely to try and pull a fast one on you.

I'm talking people who've found cars that didn't show up as problematic in Carfax reports (for the curious, a sort of report that tallies "Lemon Check, Record Check, Recall Check, and Problem Car" reports from a variety of sources based on the ID number of your vehicle...highly unreliable in my experience), having adjusted the odometer, done cut-butt jobs, repaired condemned salvage vehicles from other states or Mexico and trying to resell them on the same lot, the list goes on...and this is more the norm than the exception in many one-time used car lots.

At the end of the day, it's called "buyer beware." As a buyer, you (whoever "you" the buyer may be) needs to excercise the option of saying "no brokers" when advertising your used car. Take a qualified friend or mechanic with you when inspecting someone else's used car. Try and make yourself, as the seller, or buyer, more familiar with the internal and external things to look for (beyond rubbish like little dings and scratches that are a part of day to day driving) that could spell serious trouble. And ask the seller, if you are a serious buyer, to let you have a trusted mechanic or agent of your choice inspect the car. Anyone who is willing to make the significant investment in buying a car should be able to afford this, and anyone who is being honest about their car should be willing to allow this. If they are not willing, then the car is not worth your time, and you should let them know that.

Edited June 5, 2010 by SeanD

[kaushama]

Yes I lessons I learned from this as follows

• No brokers and sale cars, unless they are very well known to you
• Never buy open paper vehicles
• never trust the seller
• Check it with agents
• Check all the documents including revenue license and taxes
• Never sell your car on open papers
• Never sell to a broker or sale owner

and the list goes on!

Still things can go wrong. For example, unless the agent knew the vehicle I wouldn't have got the CVT issue even when agents checked it. To my knowledge agents can not diagnose it if there are no issues coming up during driving which that particular car didn't have due to oil change. So still there is a risk.

Shall we make a check list kind of thing and make it a sticky for AL members to go through? I think it would more productive.

[SeanD]

Sticky would be a good idea. And is it just me, or are we already seeing slightly less ridiculous prices on the latest AL classifieds?

[Le Sabre]

With the reduction of prices wonder how much the kia's and the hyundai's will sell for in the 2nd hand market.

Also wonder if anyone knows the prices of Micros Trend and the MX 7 sedan.

Iam sure they might be lower also. This might be something good for the local car industry.

[SeanD]

Here's some good tips (note: Also includes methods of manipulation )

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/used.htm

[lasi]

It seems, again we are heading towards the same era what we had 4 months ago some examples in AL itself. need of a miracle ; i feel like manipulators.

[MkX]

Guys any update on latest market trand for used cars. We saw increase in the price for some of the Toyotas, and no much reduction in Hondas (civics mainly) and Nissans. Any change in last few weeks.. seeing so many Axios in the market as predicted earlier.

[hakjay]

<!--quoteo(post=119629:date=Apr 28 2010, 05:12 PM:name=shanX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shanX @ Apr 28 2010, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=119629"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But anyway yeah, a lot of Prados with unreg plates were running around election campaigners last few weeks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

These vehicles don't necessarily belong to the politician. Most of these SUV's belongs to the businessmen who back these politicos (financially) plates are removed to hide the identity of the vehicle and the owner.

Yes. and these vehicles are then sold to us!!!. How come the cops allow these un reg vehicles on the road.

[evergreen]

Guys any update on latest market trand for used cars. We saw increase in the price for some of the Toyotas, and no much reduction in Hondas (civics mainly) and Nissans. Any change in last few weeks.. seeing so many Axios in the market as predicted earlier.

prices seem to be going up for second hand cars. specilly between the 1.0 - 2.0 Million range. on top of that now its even harder to find well mainatined cars. most that is for sale are utter rubbish.

[heavyD]

prices seem to be going up for second hand cars. specilly between the 1.0 - 2.0 Million range. on top of that now its even harder to find well mainatined cars. most that is for sale are utter rubbish.

Yup. And add searching for specifics (i.e. manual tranny) and it's like searching for a pink elephant on a blue moon.

[MkX]

Yup. And add searching for specifics (i.e. manual tranny) and it's like searching for a pink elephant on a blue moon.

Yeh.. and looking at the number of auto trannies in new car market .. it'll be hard to find good manuals in future.

[BLu3HaZe]

Yeh.. and looking at the number of auto trannies in new car market .. it'll be hard to find good manuals in future.

Hmm, sick of it Even with old cars, only the auto's seem to be for sale

[TURBOMAN]

Guys guys

Im really puzzled with this car market

Just see this "Calculation"

Import tax reduced =============== Reduction of price of unregistered vehicles ------------- 1

Reduction of unregd ============== Reduction of 2nd hand cars prices ------------- 2

increased Unregd car buyers ====== Increased #of 2nd hand cars(due to selling) --------- 3

BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED

Increased prices of 2nd hand market

WHY?

1.The main reason-The people who wanted to buy whatever a vehicle with the tax reduction became desperate cos of the increased prices of both Unregd and 2nd hand market.

They couldnt get rid of the "CAR BUYING" mentality.

And they tried to buy vehicles for whatever the price which is comparatively less.

2.Added to that

The bad manipulations of the car sale owners(blood sucking leaches).This is purely "BORADIYE MAALU BAMAK"

What you all think?