Ac Failed After Re-Gassing

[NRX]

I had to regas AC of my FB13 since it wasn't cool enough, and re-oiled the compresser too. After this the AC was working fairly OK for a week.

When I started the car last weekend after a week the AC wasn't working at all.

Symptoms:

* The belt that drives the compressor works all the time, not just when the AC is switched on.

* Condenser fan doesn't work when AC is switched on.

* Radiator fan won't turn on when AC is switched on.

* RPM won't increase when the AC is switched on.

only the blower and heater works at the moment, what could cause to happen this after the regassing ?

UPDATE: Took the car to the AC joint again and guess what ? All the gas had been leaked, according to the AC baas, the low gas pressure cuts off the AC circuitry hence the above symptoms, which I'm not quite sure about. We detected the leak and it's from the compressor itself, and it's leaking rapidly and we can hear the air noise as well. Baas recommends me replacing a compressor, now how much would a compressor usually be ? used one probably ?

Edited December 17, 2011 by NRX

[The Don]

I had to regas AC of my FB13 since it wasn't cool enough, and re-oiled the compresser too. After this the AC was working fairly OK for a week.

When I started the car last weekend after a week the AC wasn't working at all.

Symptoms:

* The belt that drives the compressor works all the time, not just when the AC is switched on.

* Condenser fan doesn't work when AC is switched on.

* Radiator fan won't turn on when AC is switched on.

* RPM won't increase when the AC is switched on.

only the blower and heater works at the moment, what could cause to happen this after the regassing ?

I think this is a purely electronic problem and probably not connected to the re gassing (though you never know). If I am not mistaken your car has a AC button. So you press the AC button and adjust the blower. When the AC button is pressed and the blower is operated a signal is sent to an AC control unit which activates all of the things you mentioned, so I think there is probably an issue with that unit, one of the relays connected, fuses etc. Take it back to the AC repair place and they can help you. I once had the same issue and it was because water had gotten into the unit and corroded one of the contacts.

[NRX]

I think this is a purely electronic problem and probably not connected to the re gassing (though you never know). If I am not mistaken your car has a AC button. So you press the AC button and adjust the blower. When the AC button is pressed and the blower is operated a signal is sent to an AC control unit which activates all of the things you mentioned, so I think there is probably an issue with that unit, one of the relays connected, fuses etc. Take it back to the AC repair place and they can help you. I once had the same issue and it was because water had gotten into the unit and corroded one of the contacts.

Thanks Don, yeah it has a button to turn on the AC,

btw, my dad took the car to regas and the guy at the AC joint had gassed R134a after removing the existing gas ( it says R12 on the bonnet, I don't know what was actually inside the compressor, bought the car a month back ) and put oil without flushing the old oil. Could this be a reason somehow ? anyways it was working for a week :-/

Edited December 13, 2011 by NRX

[The Don]

Thanks Don, yeah it has a button to turn on the AC,

btw, my dad took the car to regas and the guy at the AC joint had gassed R134a after removing the existing gas ( it says R12 on the bonnet, I don't know what was actually inside the compressor, bought the car a month back ) and put oil without flushing the old oil. Could this be a reason somehow ? anyways it was working for a week :-/

A lot of AC places do this now and I assume for environmental reasons. You should properly flush the system when changing the gas and I think the compressor oil used is slightly different. This is unlikely to be related because your AC system is not electronically being activated at the moment. The compressor clutch does not engage, the idle up mechanism does not kick in and the radiator fans do not come on. It's definitely an electronic issue.

[NRX]

A lot of AC places do this now and I assume for environmental reasons. You should properly flush the system when changing the gas and I think the compressor oil used is slightly different. This is unlikely to be related because your AC system is not electronically being activated at the moment. The compressor clutch does not engage, the idle up mechanism does not kick in and the radiator fans do not come on. It's definitely an electronic issue.

Well the compressor is running even if the AC is on or off, I mean usually when the AC is switched off the the belt that drives the compressor won't turn right ?

What do you mean by engaging the clutch machan, I'm a noob does that mean stopping the turning of the compressor ? :-/

[The Don]

Well the compressor is running even if the AC is on or off, I mean usually when the AC is switched off the the belt that drives the compressor won't turn right ?

What do you mean by engaging the clutch machan, I'm a noob does that mean stopping the turning of the compressor ? :-/

The compressor has a wheel which is driven by a belt attached to the crank pulley. It turns all the time but the actual compressor is not turning at all, just the wheel/pulley. When the AC is turned on an element of the compressor called the clutch locks to the pulley and then the compressor itself starts to turn. This puts extra strain on the engine hence the idle has to be adjusted, hence the idle up mechanism.

I don't think any of the above is happening in the car at the moment.

[maheshw]

Hi,

Yes as The Don state this should be a electrical problem. as i can remember there is a fuse only for a\c.when it \'s not passing signals your idle up will not get actv as well as your a\c fan. only your blower will work. just chek the first row first fuse from right side( cant remember the order). DYI.

[NRX]

The compressor has a wheel which is driven by a belt attached to the crank pulley. It turns all the time but the actual compressor is not turning at all, just the wheel/pulley. When the AC is turned on an element of the compressor called the clutch locks to the pulley and then the compressor itself starts to turn. This puts extra strain on the engine hence the idle has to be adjusted, hence the idle up mechanism.

I don't think any of the above is happening in the car at the moment.

Hi,

Yes as The Don state this should be a electrical problem. as i can remember there is a fuse only for a\c.when it \'s not passing signals your idle up will not get actv as well as your a\c fan. only your blower will work. just chek the first row first fuse from right side( cant remember the order). DYI.

The issue is somewhat clear to me now , but I'm confused, since when the AC was working properly the compressor was only running when the AC is switched on, it stops running when it is switched off, ( When you press AC button the belt starts rotating the compressor, and stops as when switch off the AC )

BTW, there are 2 fuse boxes in the car, 1 under the bonnet and one under the driver side dashboard, I guess the correct one is the under bonnet one ?

Edited December 13, 2011 by NRX

[The Don]

The issue is somewhat clear to me now , but I'm confused, since when the AC was working properly the compressor was only running when the AC is switched on, it stops running when it is switched off, ( When you press AC button the belt starts rotating the compressor, and stops as when switch off the AC )

BTW, there are 2 fuse boxes in the car, 1 under the bonnet and one under the driver side dashboard, I guess the correct one is the under bonnet one ?

Probably the drivers side of the dashboard. As for your other description that cannot possibly be the case Since the compressor is attached to the the crank pulley there is no mechanism where the compressor pulley will only turn when the AC is activated. It freely turns around whenever the engine is running. When the AC is activated the pulley locks on to the clutch inside the compressor turning the compressor resulting in compression!

[anjulau78]

Dear NRX,

I think you are not aware of how is the mechanism of an A/C compressior. Please read the following article on this regards.

I am aloso thinking the issue is related to the lelectrical system, may be wornout A/C swith, burnt fues or even some damege to the wires by rats

wht don said is exactly right.

www.ehow.com/how-does_5022459_ac-compressor-clutch-work.html

[luckey007]

I think the gas is leaked out some how and the system doesn't have enough gas to operate.

[NRX]

Probably the drivers side of the dashboard. As for your other description that cannot possibly be the case Since the compressor is attached to the the crank pulley there is no mechanism where the compressor pulley will only turn when the AC is activated. It freely turns around whenever the engine is running. When the AC is activated the pulley locks on to the clutch inside the compressor turning the compressor resulting in compression!

I always wondered how that was possible may be my memory is wrong, I'm a n00b to this, Sigh! if only cars were simple as taking care of a PC =D

[maheshw]

NRX, on 13 December 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

The issue is somewhat clear to me now , but I'm confused, since when the AC was working properly the compressor was only running when the AC is switched on, it stops running when it is switched off, ( When you press AC button the belt starts rotating the compressor, and stops as when switch off the AC )

BTW, there are 2 fuse boxes in the car, 1 under the bonnet and one under the driver side dashboard, I guess the correct one is the under bonnet one ?

Probably the drivers side of the dashboard.

yes correct....

[NRX]

Dear NRX,

I think you are not aware of how is the mechanism of an A/C compressior. Please read the following article on this regards.

I am aloso thinking the issue is related to the lelectrical system, may be wornout A/C swith, burnt fues or even some damege to the wires by rats

wht don said is exactly right.

www.ehow.com/how-does_5022459_ac-compressor-clutch-work.html

good article. Thanks anjulau78

I think the gas is leaked out some how and the system doesn't have enough gas to operate.

if that's the case why wouldn't it operate even the condenser fan ? :-/

[NRX]

UPDATE: Took the car to the AC joint again and guess what ? All the gas had been leaked, according to the AC baas, the low gas pressure cuts off the AC circuitry hence the above symptoms, which I'm not quite sure about. We detected the leak and it's from the compressor itself, and it's leaking rapidly and we can hear the air noise as well. Baas recommends me replacing a compressor, now how much would a compressor usually be ? used one probably ?

Edited December 17, 2011 by NRX

[MeanGreenZ28]

For future reference, there is a pressure switch in the condenser lines (low pressure side, I believe) than needs to see charge pressure before it'll let the A/C clutch engage ... not sure why anyone else didn't mention this in things to check. Glad to see it was figured out to be a leak. Are you sure that just replacing all the seals/o-rings cant fix it? I'm guessing that since they added too much oil/refrigerant into the system (system wasn't completely evacuated and everything re-measured before charging the system), you probably had excessive pressure in there that blew a seal at the exit side of the compressor.

[Fixzit]

I had to regas AC of my FB13 since it wasn't cool enough, and re-oiled the compresser too. After this the AC was working fairly OK for a week.

When I started the car last weekend after a week the AC wasn't working at all.

Symptoms:

* The belt that drives the compressor works all the time, not just when the AC is switched on.

* Condenser fan doesn't work when AC is switched on.

* Radiator fan won't turn on when AC is switched on.

* RPM won't increase when the AC is switched on.

only the blower and heater works at the moment, what could cause to happen this after the regassing ?

UPDATE: Took the car to the AC joint again and guess what ? All the gas had been leaked, according to the AC baas, the low gas pressure cuts off the AC circuitry hence the above symptoms, which I'm not quite sure about. We detected the leak and it's from the compressor itself, and it's leaking rapidly and we can hear the air noise as well. Baas recommends me replacing a compressor, now how much would a compressor usually be ? used one probably ?

Re- Gassing is not a solution to fix your Air-conditioning, in fact it's Illegal in some countries in the world due to environmental issues. Your car will not drop it's standing gas pressure or loose any gas due to long use or any other reason except for a leak. You might fix the problem by re gassing but I can guarantee that It will only be temporary depending on the size of the leak. If it's very small It might hold for a considerable duration of time before it drops again.

So what your technician did was wrong in the first place unless he has explained you what could happen and also the money which you ll be spending to re gas will be a waste sooner or later

As for your symptoms, He was right. There is a pressure sensor in the system to detect the standing and running pressures which would cuts off the electrical supply to compressor clutch and fans if there is not enough gas in the system to run. Usually its on top of the filter dryer and close to the condenser. You can pin point whether its the pressure sensor which cuts off the supply by taking out the electrical socket on top of it and connecting the 2 leads which should run your system. I would ask you not to let your system run for more than few seconds this way because by doing so you can damage few components of the system. This is purely for diagnostic purpose.

Next time when your AC doesn't work or not cooling enough, take it to a qualified technician and get it checked. If its down on gas pressure, Fix the leak before recharging.

[NRX]

For future reference, there is a pressure switch in the condenser lines (low pressure side, I believe) than needs to see charge pressure before it'll let the A/C clutch engage ... not sure why anyone else didn't mention this in things to check. Glad to see it was figured out to be a leak. Are you sure that just replacing all the seals/o-rings cant fix it? I'm guessing that since they added too much oil/refrigerant into the system (system wasn't completely evacuated and everything re-measured before charging the system), you probably had excessive pressure in there that blew a seal at the exit side of the compressor.

Nicely explained,

I figured out the AC mechanic wasn't a qualified guy at his job, so I'll check the compressor with a reputed place I got to know recently through another thread, I wish replacing the seals and o-rings will fix the problem.

[NRX]

Fixzit

He had checked for leaks the first time we took the car to regas and found no leaks during the check period, so I believe he regassed excessively causing one of the seals to give up, I do not further trust the guy and going to a reputed place recommended by an AL member. Thanks for your valuable advise mate, appreciate it

Edited December 18, 2011 by NRX

[Fixzit]

It's very easy for a experienced and qualified technician to detect whether there is a shortage of gas in the system, and as i explained you before, the only reason there could be a shortage of refrigerant is a leak unless it has been under charged before, but I'm guessing that's not the case here because your AC was working fine before right? Most of the times It's your evaporator which causes the leak because that is the part which is has the least thickness of the metal and collect lots of dust and dirt which will eventually turn into mud and cause the aluminium to oxide and cause leaks. You might not find the leak in the system even when it's running with less performance because some leaks will only leak gas up to a curtain pressure and then stops. So what I would do is recover the remaining gas in the system, pressurise the system with dry-nitrogen for a pressure maybe 20 - 30% extra than the normal running pressure of the system and check for any pressure drops. This will only tell me whether there is a leak somewhere or not. If the leak is not obvious and outside, I would take all the major components out and pressure test them individually until I find the leak.

I do not think he has over charged your system because you system will also cuts off if there is too much pressure inside as a safety precaution to save your compressor and also the other components which will blow out due to excessive pressure. On the other hand, Insufficient refrigerant in the system will cause poor cooling and so does excess gas. If you had too much gas in the system, you will not get proper cooling even at the time you re gassed the system.

You lost your gas pressure twice now. I'm pretty sure there is a leak somewhere. As you said, take it to a good technician and get it checked. If you are lucky, It'll be a minor leak which could be fixed with just a small weld, but if your evaporator or another component doesn't looks so good, replace it. Don't risk loosing gas again because the you'll end up spending more money for gas again + Labour + Components again. Get it repaired well and try not to use fresh air. That's the no.1 killer of evaporators because it brings in dust and clogs up the Evap and cause it to fail. One of my fellow technician used to ask me to turn off the AC and run the blower for a 1-2mins before I stop my car to blow off any moisture left inside my Evap which helps to minimise the build up of rust in my Evap. Try that trick if you like

Edited December 18, 2011 by Fixzit

[Sylvi]

I had to regas AC of my FB13 since it wasn't cool enough, and re-oiled the compresser too. After this the AC was working fairly OK for a week.

When I started the car last weekend after a week the AC wasn't working at all.

Symptoms:

* The belt that drives the compressor works all the time, not just when the AC is switched on.

* Condenser fan doesn't work when AC is switched on.

* Radiator fan won't turn on when AC is switched on.

* RPM won't increase when the AC is switched on.

only the blower and heater works at the moment, what could cause to happen this after the regassing ?

UPDATE: Took the car to the AC joint again and guess what ? All the gas had been leaked, according to the AC baas, the low gas pressure cuts off the AC circuitry hence the above symptoms, which I'm not quite sure about. We detected the leak and it's from the compressor itself, and it's leaking rapidly and we can hear the air noise as well. Baas recommends me replacing a compressor, now how much would a compressor usually be ? used one probably ?

'NRX',

Dear Member,

I find this thread had gone for 19 replies already, Lot of members had given advices to you

I did not want to write to this thread early because Auto A/C is not my subject.

I always go to a knowledgeable man who handles Auto A/c.

I do not want to advertise this person's business he handles all my auto A/C problems once only. Because he is fully equipped.

Having qualified efficient staff to handle any A/C problems of Auto and industrial.

So if you want a good A/C Qualified technician you can contact him I will give his contact numbers for you to contact him

Name: Rohan Perera. Thelephone numbers: 2303910. Mobile: 0777 393608.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Sylvi

[NRX]

Fixzit.

Thanks a lot for taking your time to write the lenghty explained post mate, the AC was working but the cooling effciency was very low before the regassing, it was better for sometime after regassing until it gave up

one thing I think I forgot to mention, the bonnet of the car clearly indicates use R12 gas, but the AC bass had gassed R134a saying that R12 isn't available anymore and oiled the compressor without removing the existing oil of the compressor, but he had removed the existing gas before regassing, this mixup could cause the major leak ?

SIlvi,

Thank you, do you know anyone who is reputed for AC service in Gampaha area, I'm in Gampaha

Edited December 19, 2011 by NRX

[Sylvi]

Fixzit.

Thanks a lot for taking your time to write the lenghty explained post mate, the AC was working but the cooling effciency was very low before the regassing, it was better for sometime after regassing until it gave up

one thing I think I forgot to mention, the bonnet of the car clearly indicates use R12 gas, but the AC bass had gassed R134a saying that R12 isn't available anymore and oiled the compressor without removing the existing oil of the compressor, but he had removed the existing gas before regassing, this mixup could cause the major leak ?

SIlvi,

Thank you, do you know anyone who is reputed for AC service in Gampaha area, I'm in Gampaha

'NRX,

One of Mr. R Perear's Assistant is living in Negambo he is more on industrial side first of all contact him some times he will be helpful to you.

My personal opinion is to drive down to Colombo and get a proper job done because your repair will need clean up of your system and do a proper job .

The work shop is situated in Colombo 02 behind Army engineers work shop. road before Army petrol filling station.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[Fixzit]

R-12 is banned in some countries in the world and the manufacturing will stop as well. This is due to the environmental issues mainly such as Ozone layer depletion. R-134 is the retrofitting gas or the substitute for R12, but Does not mean you can straight away release the R12 and recharge with R134a. There is a proper retrofitting procedure. It's very important to flush and clean the whole system and remove any old oil in the system. You can still buy R12 in SL and from what I heard a tank will cost about 8500 Rs which is some what less than before. I'm not 100% sure about the prices because I work overseas. If for any reason I would do a top up, I would always try to use the same gas what you have in the system, or else follow the correct procedure to retrofit. Mixing gasses and oil types could easily cause your problem, given that you had R12 in your system, but what usually happens is because R12 used to be more expensive, someone who has done a repair on your car previously has already changed your system in to 134a and not have removed your sticker. Considering the manufactured year of your car, I'm sure there have been many major repairs on your system before. Maybe your technician figured out its 134 inside your system.

Regardless of the gas you had in your system, if there was a considerable pressure drop in your system, your technician shouldn't have topped up gas without fixing the leak on the first place unless you ask him to do so for any reason (Such as you were in a hurry or you just wanna sell your car and you only need the AC for few days or you want to try your luck those are the general reasons which we hear ). I myself would personally explain the customer the whole issue and follow his instruction because after all It's his car and he's paying. A/C is a closed system and there is no loss of Gas due to long term use. Only reason to loose gas is a leak.

I'm glad you got your leak fixed.

[The Don]

I thought this might be the case as well though didn't know if the FB13 had that mechanism. In our mazda the compressor engaged even there was not enough gas which was very worrying!

Compressors go at about 5-6000 I think. If you can't find one in Delkanda go to the engine watte in Panchikawatte. They usually have the goods!

Edited December 20, 2011 by The Don