Honda Buggers Might Not Like This

[Pericles]

Ah, a new boy.

Did you know the great Enzo Ferrari can only take a very small number of hard starts?? Wow pay big buck and get shit clutch.

Need to see a little more reputable authority than a total n00b on Ferrari clutches man. Proof? Links?

Every car has it's downsides and if anyone said a honda is perfect then they'd be morons.

We quite agree. A lot of them do, so a lot of them are.

Lets get away from that and comment on what honda has achieved.

-->Fastest production 1600cc car in the world--Civic typeR EK9

-->Fastest production 1800cc car in the world--Integra typeR DC2

-->Best handling in its class and year of production Civic typeR

Sources, man, sources.

Compare one small thing. 1600cc EK9 type R or a 1800cc DC2 type R....What are their quater mile times?? In the 14's if I'm right, then compare it to a muscle car like a standard Mustang or a Corvette is there a huge difference?? Even if it was two or three seconds, it's still not much cause with the initial money you'd spend on a Corvette or Mustang you could mod the honda to whip the shit out of a muscle car. Fact man!!!!

If ur right or not, squeezing 100s of a second is an obession in the 10sec categories. Instead of makeing empty pronouncements like that, back it up. List down actual prices for the Corvette, Mustang and the cost for the mods on whatever Honda to beat it. I assume ur not talking about the NSX on this, coz the NSX is more expensive than either.

'06 Z06 - $33,994 - $71,595

'05 Mustang - No idea. Hammond on Top Gear said GBP 24,000 "with all the toys".

'04 NSX - $79,900 - $89,765

No matter what's said the NSX wasn't a great hit in the US but in comparison to what a standard road going Vette or a Mustang could do around the track the NSX was impressive. The only thing American cars seem to have is raw power, handling?? Grip?? Fuel efficiency??? None of it. Yeah Honda's come with cheap interiors, they have squeeks and exhaust rattles but whatever is said and done around the world honda's sell more than any other performance car. It's a fact!!

Americans make cars to suit their country, not to suit ours. They have wide open roads, so their cars focus on power. Americans like their stuff big, coz they are big ppl. Thats fact.

Honda's sell more than any performance car? Lets see the figures for that! What Honda sell more than any performance car? If its a fact, back it up with some proof!! And pls don't say Civic. Compare performance cars with performance cars. Honda's performance flagship NSX has to be the worst selling performance car in history (Now that is an unsubtantiated claim. Someone help me prove it ). Certainly worst selling than the other Jap flagships it competes with. Probably worse than any American model it competes with too. The only way the NSX is gonna outsell summin is if the production run is less than the NSX sales, like the Veyron.

All over the world if you take the world market Japanese cars on a whole sell more than European and American cars,

Figures pls. And don't forget, "Japanese cars" don't mean Honda one and only. There are a few others. There even another that outsells Hondas.

and the performance enthusiast who wants a bang for buck car which can be driven and afforded as an every day car will always be a Honda owner. Sorry man, gotta state the facts.

No for that too. U might be a perf enthu that thinks Honda is bang for the buck, but not everyone thinks so, so "always be a Honda owner" is a buncha bull. Let me correct ur terminology. Its called a fib, not a fact.

[Newbi]

What Rubish.... Suzuki's are the best Cars in the world... Pound for pound....Then comes Citron...Chew on that mateeess

[ash]

Please select any of these....

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4.

[Hondarules]

Look man, I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone else. Right now I'm stating facts or what has been accepted as fact for the last 5 to 6 six years. The facts I have stated are true. Ask anybody who's actually been following the motoring scene and modding scene in the recent past. Look pericles I know who you are and to me really your opinion on Honda's doesn't matter cause what you know of cars is really a load of shit to me, but the fact of the matter is The stuff I stated is true. About the clutch on the enzo, ask around from a few unbiased car enthusiasts, and also every other stat I gave you I couldn't give a shit if you didn't believe me or not because if you spoke to any of a huge number of motoring experts in SL you'd know what I'm saying is true.

If you do know of a NA engine which is 1600cc or 1800cc that produces more power than the Honda TypeR's then please show me that, till then I'll believe what I've stated and honestly everyone else does too, at least true enthusiasts know. And oh since you don't consider a civic a performance car then I'm sorry you're a very greatly mislead fool as in the performance car arena in any country you'll see more honda'a than any other manufacturer.

Also When you stated the price comparison of your Mustang and Corvette did you even consider what I was saying?? Starting from 30,000 USD?? Come on man!!! Let me give you a few stats, First to buy a bottom range Honda civic Hatch in USA where I did live before would cost you max 3000 USD, then to do a complete engine swap to a ITR or CTR with a few extra sideline mods would cost you about 7000 USD, then it leaves you 20,000 USD in the hand...you're telling me you can't build a honda with that much cash to beat you 30,000 USD MUSTANG?? Please proove me wrong in this??

Also again I'd like to finally state something, lets say 1600cc honda type R vtec. Now since CC is all that matter and there's no replacement for displacement, lets put two completely unfare cars together how about a 2000cc + car like Javidh's EuroR against Nigel's CTR or Maybe Javidh's SiR what do you think would happen there?? Now you'll completely accept there are way more important things than CC now days.

Trust me, above all I know what type of guy you are. You're a simple child who's been misguided by european car mags and american magazines and not even had the chance to really appreciate the true value of a High end japanese performance car. Do you know what I'd call the High end Japanese performance car?? A civic, do you know why?? Everyone can have one and someday with the time and effort someone can beat a ferrari with one of them. But in reality only a handfull of people will ever own a Ferrari, a Lambo and whatever...

Right now I challenge any High end European car to a drag. Set the date and time and I'll turn up with a car. If my car wins, ya'll can shut the hell up and take it like men. Or if you can't come up with a car then just keep ranting on this forum like some all talk no shit loosers!!!!

[Duncan]

I think this is a die hard redneck.

[Pericles]

Look man, I'm not trying to argue with you or anyone else. Right now I'm stating facts or what has been accepted as fact for the last 5 to 6 six years. The facts I have stated are true. Ask anybody who's actually been following the motoring scene and modding scene in the recent past. Look pericles I know who you are and to me really your opinion on Honda's doesn't matter cause what you know of cars is really a load of shit to me, but the fact of the matter is The stuff I stated is true. About the clutch on the enzo, ask around from a few unbiased car enthusiasts, and also every other stat I gave you I couldn't give a shit if you didn't believe me or not because if you spoke to any of a huge number of motoring experts in SL you'd know what I'm saying is true.

If you do know of a NA engine which is 1600cc or 1800cc that produces more power than the Honda TypeR's then please show me that, till then I'll believe what I've stated and honestly everyone else does too, at least true enthusiasts know. And oh since you don't consider a civic a performance car then I'm sorry you're a very greatly mislead fool as in the performance car arena in any country you'll see more honda'a than any other manufacturer.

Also When you stated the price comparison of your Mustang and Corvette did you even consider what I was saying?? Starting from 30,000 USD?? Come on man!!! Let me give you a few stats, First to buy a bottom range Honda civic Hatch in USA where I did live before would cost you max 3000 USD, then to do a complete engine swap to a ITR or CTR with a few extra sideline mods would cost you about 7000 USD, then it leaves you 20,000 USD in the hand...you're telling me you can't build a honda with that much cash to beat you 30,000 USD MUSTANG?? Please proove me wrong in this??

Also again I'd like to finally state something, lets say 1600cc honda type R vtec. Now since CC is all that matter and there's no replacement for displacement, lets put two completely unfare cars together how about a 2000cc + car like Javidh's EuroR against Nigel's CTR or Maybe Javidh's SiR what do you think would happen there?? Now you'll completely accept there are way more important things than CC now days.

Trust me, above all I know what type of guy you are. You're a simple child who's been misguided by european car mags and american magazines and not even had the chance to really appreciate the true value of a High end japanese performance car. Do you know what I'd call the High end Japanese performance car?? A civic, do you know why?? Everyone can have one and someday with the time and effort someone can beat a ferrari with one of them. But in reality only a handfull of people will ever own a Ferrari, a Lambo and whatever...

Right now I challenge any High end European car to a drag. Set the date and time and I'll turn up with a car. If my car wins, ya'll can shut the hell up and take it like men. Or if you can't come up with a car then just keep ranting on this forum like some all talk no shit loosers!!!!

Did u just call me a fool!? Never mind the car, u wanna say things like that, u can try takeing it like a man and saying it to my face. I didn't say u were wrong, I asked u to prove it, instead of tossing ur beliefs around.

U wanna call me a child and then say the civic is a High end Japanese performance car? Just because everyone can buy one? What sorta idiotic arguement is that? Civics are 4 door econo-boxes. Type-R might be considered a performance version of the Civic, but it aint High End Performance. If u had come out with a NSX, then it's acceptable calling it High End Performance. Not plain old Civics. Try running ur so called High Perfromance civics against a car like DineshDs Evo. No, lemme guess. Thats two liters. Its turbo. its 4wd. Did I miss any of the excuses?

If u are interested in finding out the winner in ur Euro-R CTR SiR match, u can find out. I haven't much interest. Nigel CTR is modified anyway, and he is a good driver. Other drivers in those cars might produce other interesting results. Nigel will probably take on a WRX in that CTR, and it wouldn't suprise me if he won that too.

U wanna drag a High Perf European car? Too bad Jey's BMW is out of the scene, but u could always politely ask Maheth if he is interested in taking u on in the CLS.

Hey Mean Grean, u guys tune cars. U think its possible to build a civic to beat, excuse me, "beat the shit out of" a mustang for a lower price than the mustang? Lets not forget that it must not be a one race wonder, but last as long as a mustang would too. Engine rebuilds after 3-4 runs is a no no.

U've put down a whole load of imaginative shit, but until u can prove it, all ur theories of rebuilt civics and huge numbers of motoring experts and "perfomance cars" are just opinions. I don't know any car enthusiasts who have driven Enzo's to tell me the clutch is bad. And since we don't know who u are, unless u decide to tell us, that don't mean bollocks.

[isurujosh]

how does autolanka attract such knobs

listen dude...dnt try to bring dat shit up abt 'im a lil hard worker' cos i wrk for myslf too...my parents dnt giv me jack else i'd b drivin sumthng fancy...n FYI im 23 too n graduatd frm uni at 20...d reason i snappd is cos i postd a website link dat dsnt even hav a trace of sharky input n u call me a 'jerk'?dude u hav to wonder y preveen n pila take d piss out of u n not any1 else IN EVERY THREAD...how blonde can u get??

u hav to learn to watch ur tongue WHICH EVER HOLE IT COMES OUT OF n dere u go again callin me frustratd...do u really think i giv a damn if ur 'mad' at me??

ur rite u didnt bring d city up in dis thread but d reason ur so full of urslf is cos u own a honda be it a 600cc honda beat...there r loads of ppl i knw who luv honda's but dey dnt go on abt em like u do everywhere...if u want to b sumbody jus shut up already

im sorry man but u dnt knw me n i wont accept nonsense frm a nobody

for the rest who've gone OT...jus keep reading d top bit of the website plz thanks

F**k u a** hole think i give a damn what you say about me or wot u do... looks like that lil harder work has made you a lil frustrated boy

also the fact that ur parents dont giv a u jack mst be makin u grow even more frustrated p*nk

last time i called you jerk, i was kiddin... this time i mean it ... yah u r a J E R K ... do i make my self clear to you this time buddy???

and p*nk you r da man to talk about Nissan owning that old cefiro junk... u idi*ot dont' you understand i'd been talkin abt Honda nameplate not the Honda City... even b4 i bought my city i'd been loving Honda... thatz none of your business... the real reason y i love honda is bcoz nissan sucks you bugger.... been a nissan owner early nd now see the difference so come to luv honda...

[Elvis_Pil]

What Rubish.... Suzuki's are the best Cars in the world... Pound for pound....Then comes Citron...Chew on that mateeess

I think know you dude.. One thing for sure in the 1300CC range Suzuki Rulzzz.. Man those Cultus's fly!! No joking here..

[unknown]

this thread getting heated up. i dont know how this going to be end up.

I dont know whether u guys saw Topgear 2005 series, in one episode jeramy brings a ENZO and drive it in da race track and he loves it, he didnt mention about the clutch but in another episode he races a lambo with a EVO 8, and prooves that family car can keep up with a lambo in race track, im not telling drag in a strech in normal race track. in that he says EVO8 is good car and affordable but its clutch is difficult to handle he shows it and bla bla bla.....

so anyway what u guys think of this

have anybody watch this episode

take care

guys

[isurujosh]

Ok let me get down to it again to give you a more specific argument. Tell me how much does a V8 engine produce with no supercharger and how ever much cc?? 4000cc?? 5000cc??? Give me an answer to that.

Look comparing engine to engine is not worth it, because engine to engine then the vtec engine is the at the cutting edge of technology to help increase engine life, fuel efficiency, performance and reliability on a whole. A V8 on the other hand just produces Horsepower which is not all that matters in the practical world. What I mentioned before, fuel efficiency, reliability matter a lot to the every day guy. I'm not trying to brag about how the honda engine is better but it's a fact that nowadays CC is not everything. Yes if you have a huge cc engine you can beat a smaller cc engine and that's not the last word. Then if you wanna compare it in the simple terms of cc then I could compare the v10 engine in the Honda F1 car to a vipers v10 and there'd be no competition and at the same time the CC of an F1 car is probably less than a viper. How curios. It isn't just cc that matters anymore and it's about technology and even if you don't accept it the world already has. Ok so honda's aren't the best engines in the world maybe but they definitely are the most powerful in their cc category. 1600, and 1800, Imagine Honda actually concentrated on a V8 engine or V10 of their own?? Imagine the horspower the engine might produce with the same technology in the B16 engines and the B18 engines. Compare what can be compared. If somebody did say that the V8's will disappear, then I guess it is funny because the american V8's will always be one of the greatest legendary engines, not cause of how hi tech or advanced they are. Only because of how simple they are, and how they can produce flat out horsepower and nothing else. On the other hand the vtec engines will always be a legendary engine because of it's technology because of the ability of an engine to give you hi performance, as well as fuel efficiency when driven outside the vtec zone and reliability. Two different classes, two different engines and there is no comparison.

Finally said I know this is not what the original argument was about, but......Honda do produce the engines that produce the highest horsepower with the least amount of cc, and without the addition of any type of turbo or supercharger. Just from fueling and ecu black art. That is something they must be given credit for!!!

You are trying to maka case talking to the point... itz useless with some dudes in this forum who jst tend to interprete things carzy and turn it against you... trust me dude no point trying to make a point here, waste of time... these dudes like it the barbarian way

[isurujosh]

What Rubish.... Suzuki's are the best Cars in the world... Pound for pound....Then comes Citron...Chew on that mateeess

Suzuki surely has got some flying machines(for daily running) powered by 1.3L small engines... however on the filp side they aren't gas zippers as u usually expect a small car to be like... i have heard cases of 8km'L(may be extreme cases) in the city runnin out of these nices cars... this is where the Honda Jazz(especially the 1.5L VTEC) comes handy... itz reasonably powered enough for daily running and is more fuel efficient than those 1.3L engines.

[Elvis_Pil]

Suzuki surely has got some flying machines(for daily running) powered by 1.3L small engines... however on the filp side they aren't gas zippers as u usually expect a small car to be like... i have heard cases of 8km'L(may be extreme cases) in the city runnin out of these nices cars... this is where the Honda Jazz(especially the 1.5L VTEC) comes handy... itz reasonably powered enough for daily running and is more fuel efficient than those 1.3L engines.

Actually a 1.3 Cultus/Swift with a few bolt on mods and a bit of tuning here and there can easily take down a stock D15B Vtec civic. Man I've been in one and the power that car produces is incredible. If I'm not mistaken the 1.3 Cultus falls into the 6-8kg/hp event in terms of local racing.. Perhaps someone in this very forum can comment on that

[isurujosh]

Actually a 1.3 Cultus/Swift with a few bolt on mods and a bit of tuning here and there can easily take down a stock D15B Vtec civic. Man I've been in one and the power that car produces is incredible. If I'm not mistaken the 1.3 Cultus falls into the 6-8kg/hp event in terms of local racing.. Perhaps someone in this very forum can comment on that

Havent ridden those suzuki's my self ... but have no doubt about thier potential!

[sharkster]

F**k u a** hole think i give a damn what you say about me or wot u do... looks like that lil harder work has made you a lil frustrated boy

also the fact that ur parents dont giv a u jack mst be makin u grow even more frustrated p*nk

last time i called you jerk, i was kiddin... this time i mean it ... yah u r a J E R K ... do i make my self clear to you this time buddy???

and p*nk you r da man to talk about Nissan owning that old cefiro junk... u idi*ot dont' you understand i'd been talkin abt Honda nameplate not the Honda City... even b4 i bought my city i'd been loving Honda... thatz none of your business... the real reason y i love honda is bcoz nissan sucks you bugger.... been a nissan owner early nd now see the difference so come to luv honda...

haha such a child...dats d only defense u'll hav man...ur keyboard...it dsnt change d fact dat ur still gay ...pls pop in at d next autolanka get2gethr cos ur in for a treat...

preveen u'll get to play too n i knw how long u've been waiting for dis opportunity

P.S. i dnt shout abt nissan u knob...no1 annoyingly shouts abt any manufacturer but u

[Andrew_GTR]

LoL.....u buggers are all mad....heheheh...by the way madz any chance of getting a sticker sent over here to the US of A? LoL...that'll be wicked man..cars with "autolanka.com" stickers in NY!!! Just think about it......... and just one more thing..u guys shud see some of the american car forums like on "myspace.com"...man all u hav ta do is mention the name 'Honda' and a 1000 bloody buggers tear u to pieces...they hate honda!!!! just my 2 cents..........................

[fuzzo]

if you doa search on google, yhou will find many sites dedicated to the suzuki swift/cultus and the modifications that are done to them. the swift seems very modifiable ....

[unknown]

thats interesting.

should try it out and see how they reaact

hehehe

cool scene

bye

i got to know that Suzuki swift gotta sports version and bodykit and stuff

[Andrew_GTR]

Hey What do u guys think of the Toyota IST? supposedly there is a AWD 1500cc version thats pretty mean for a small car....

[fuzzo]

the IST and honda fit are catching on really fast over here... they look pretty nice

[Andrew_GTR]

Apparently these are the 2 GREATEST Honda ADVERTS EVER...!!! Pretty Amazing if u ask me....

http://i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=15295

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/honda-ad.html

the info says... "the clever two-minute Honda "COG" commercial is a real-time creation that took seven painstaking months to prepare - and 606 video takes - that results in a mesmerizing chain reaction that will leave you scratching your head."

no computer graphics, all real

[Hondarules]

Yeah man you're right it does fall into the 6-8 category which used to mostly consist of 1600cc SiR Honda's and I don't think it did well against those. Even though you are correct, it definitely can be faster than a D15B but after getting to that level taking it into the supermodified section would not be that easy cause not many people make turbo pistons and stuff like that for the Cultus. Even though you are correct the cultus is a great car.

[Pericles]

Apparently these are the 2 GREATEST Honda ADVERTS EVER...!!! Pretty Amazing if u ask me....

http://i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=15295

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/honda-ad.html

the info says... "the clever two-minute Honda "COG" commercial is a real-time creation that took seven painstaking months to prepare - and 606 video takes - that results in a mesmerizing chain reaction that will leave you scratching your head."

no computer graphics, all real

Hey, this Honda ad that Accord one with all the parts arranged like one of those elaborate traps that Wilie Coyote uses to try and catch the roadrunner? That was pretty cool. I saw it a long time ago.

[Hondarules]

Hi Pericles, or praveen, whoever you are I have no problem with identifying myself and when the time is right I will but the funny thing is I am a guy who knows a thing or two about cars. I'm a race driver who's been doing it for long enough and been driving various cars and know the difference between a ferrari, lambl, porsche, mustand, corvette, or even a viper. I've been in all of those cars and I've driven them too. But what you're forgetting is what a performance car is. Or a high performance car is shall I define it for you??

A motoring journalist once said...I'm sure it was either jeremy clarkson or tiff needel, who are on top gear....they said that the type, for and shape of the supercar has changed so much such that an affordable four door car like the Subaru WRX or the Mitsu Evo can be called a Supercar, a performance car and a drivers car. Now again like you said a honda four door is not a performance car...well which car other than a Honda can give you supercar performance that can beat a stock WRX or EVO or even a standard Mustang or Corvette??

Let me give you exact specs as currently I am running a modifications company and I have built such a civic, I'll give you the stats on everything I've done to it and you'll see it adds upto less than 30,000 USD. This is also just my fun car that isn't the show car of my company. Like I said before I spend 2300 USD on purchasing my Honda Civic Hatch DX model and year 1994. Car was in mint shape but had a 1500 pgmfi engine. Worth nothing actually that engine was so I junked it. Using just a bit over 6000 USD I did a full ITR 1998 conversion. The car began to take shape from there. Next mod was Forged Pistons, Rods, Balanced/ lightened/ and strengthened crank, turbo cams which all cost me 2600 USD, at the same time I did a polishing of the head which cost me 200 USD, With the turbo set up of the internals complete I looked for a turbo and settled with a HKS GT series turbo which was built to handle upto 2.0+ bar of boost and this came as a kit with the intercooler and piping costing me 2400 USD. The next Modifications were a Fluidine radiator, Mocal oil cooler which were essentials costing 1400 USD. The next Important mod was my stand alone autronic Ecu which currently I am specializing in tuning with my shops rolling road dyno which cost me about 1400 USD, I also run a mild anti lag to help with the big turbo lag because of the size of this turbo. Finally I fitted a wet Nos system which is being also controlled with my Autronic which cost me a little less than 600 USD. Now if you check on what I have noted I have spent only something close to 17,000 USD. I had to spend on little little other things like an LSD which cost me 3000 USD more because I got it from UK and it wass the only one that would give me a good compramise for cornering and straight line drags I also have a external high pressure fuel pump set up which cost me 1000USD and I have larger injectors which cost me about 400 USD. I also bought some super sticky racing slicks for the front which I use for drags only and have a full set of Nitto road tires which are also good enough to take down the odd Ferrari during a traffic light situation all costing me 1600 USD. Now Mr Praveen tell me I'm wrong, ask any turbo boffins in SL and they'll tell you if I'm right or wrong. I'm sorry but My corrent car which I just gave you the design also has a fully custom bodykit and is my street car show vehicle which cost me another 2000 USD with stickering and my company decals. Not forgetting the Exhaust for 1000 USD, 200 USD Air Intake, and about 1500 USD for interior work. With space for four seats my car runs high ten's in the quarter mile and It's an everyday car for me. I've used it now it this set up for about 3 years now with only one rebuild and that only because the first year I concentrated on winning drags with the car and it was under constant thrashing at 2.2 Bar of boost, so add that one rebuild to the cost which was only 1000 USD Inclusive of The overhaul kit and piston rings.

Now please explain why you think a honda such as my car or even a Sedan four door with the same set up would not take down almost any supercar. The fact of the matter remains that you don't need to be ultra rich to be fast. You only need somebody to point you in the right direction as to how to use your money.

Yes you were correct on how hard it is to get even a milisecond off in the ten second zone, which is true but in a type R thsat run'r high 14 and the Corvetter lets say which does 11's, it'll cost less to mod that honda to run high or mid 10's than to get that corvette to get anywhere near the ten second mark. Why initial cost of the corvette is what?? Then the prices for mods is what?? Don't talk about what you don't know. And modifications are what I know, Honda's haul ass and someday when you're with your girl being uptight driving your SL55 AMG some punk driving a properly modded Honda is gonna come whip the shit out of you and then your girl is just gonna laugh at you. Sorry man, I've done it to so many Porsche owners, M3 owners, Viper owners, Corvette owners, Mustang owners. When I get through with them they're just left looking like what the f**k, because once I'm done whooping them I always slow down and watch their faces as I let them pass. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...Sorry man. Bang for buck and Honda's rule!!!!

[KLM]

Actually a 1.3 Cultus/Swift with a few bolt on mods and a bit of tuning here and there can easily take down a stock D15B Vtec civic. Man I've been in one and the power that car produces is incredible. If I'm not mistaken the 1.3 Cultus falls into the 6-8kg/hp event in terms of local racing.. Perhaps someone in this very forum can comment on that

Hmmm Pila, thats an idea - a 1300 Suzuki Swift/Cultus GTi taking down a D15 with a few mods. Yes, in stock form the car falls into 6-8 where it is rather uncompetitive but with a little tweaking, the G13B is very competitive in Modified upto 1400 cc.

But I digress. The main argument here is Honda vs. Muscle huh? Y'all are all missing the point. Manufacturers build cars for specific market segments, based on various contributing factors.

In North America, gasoline is very cheap so consumers are willing to spend more on fuel - therefore, manufacturers meet their demands with "low-tech" high cubic capacity engines because they don't have to waste their time on R&D into small displacement engines. In Asia and for the most part, Europe, this was not the case so historically, manufacturers had to provide consumers with engines that were very economical.

Of course, where there are cars there is racing so racing categories developed around the cars available in those markets. There was some interchange and 4-cyls have a following in North America as well but I think you'll find that subconsciously, most Americans that 'hate' V8s and swear by VTEC have anti-establishment issues and are 'sticking it to the man' by buying imports.

Which is better? The f**k should I know. To each his own, I say, and that should be the end of it. If you want to race, run what you brung and don't whine about superior bhp/litre output etc.

Ironically, with gas at almost $3 a gallon in the US, the big three have been losing market share and $$ because people have practically stopped buying SUVs and are looking at hybrids and econoboxes. If anybody thinks that the 'totally great' Civic and Honda brought down the big three, they are smoking crack. It was poor management, out of tune with the car buying public that caused their decline. And the spiralling costs of health benefits paid out to current and ex-workers. f**king UAW. I hate unions!

[sharkster]

Hmmm Pila, thats an idea - a 1300 Suzuki Swift/Cultus GTi taking down a D15 with a few mods. Yes, in stock form the car falls into 6-8 where it is rather uncompetitive but with a little tweaking, the G13B is very competitive in Modified upto 1400 cc.

But I digress. The main argument here is Honda vs. Muscle huh? Y'all are all missing the point. Manufacturers build cars for specific market segments, based on various contributing factors.

In North America, gasoline is very cheap so consumers are willing to spend more on fuel - therefore, manufacturers meet their demands with "low-tech" high cubic capacity engines because they don't have to waste their time on R&D into small displacement engines. In Asia and for the most part, Europe, this was not the case so historically, manufacturers had to provide consumers with engines that were very economical.

Of course, where there are cars there is racing so racing categories developed around the cars available in those markets. There was some interchange and 4-cyls have a following in North America as well but I think you'll find that subconsciously, most Americans that 'hate' V8s and swear by VTEC have anti-establishment issues and are 'sticking it to the man' by buying imports.

Which is better? The f**k should I know. To each his own, I say, and that should be the end of it. If you want to race, run what you brung and don't whine about superior bhp/litre output etc.

Ironically, with gas at almost $3 a gallon in the US, the big three have been losing market share and $$ because people have practically stopped buying SUVs and are looking at hybrids and econoboxes. If anybody thinks that the 'totally great' Civic and Honda brought down the big three, they are smoking crack. It was poor management, out of tune with the car buying public that caused their decline. And the spiralling costs of health benefits paid out to current and ex-workers. f**king UAW. I hate unions!

nice one...unbiased jus d way i like it...d problem is wen ppl blow deir trumpets abt how a certain manufacturer is god's gift to d tarmac r askin to take it up d derriere wit a flagpole...

im not tryin to prove honda's crap as stated earlier...heck i MIGHT consider getting one for a lil while for the sole purpose of economy till im independant enuf to go for a sports car