Issue With Breaking Of Es8 (2001-Vtec)

westcoast EK3 · June 11, 2013

Guys,

I am having an issue with breaking of My ES8 (2001-VTEC).

The issue is continuing since 2days back. The ABS indicator is not showing any faults. If the problem with ABS sensor, it should indicate in the cluster know...Am I correct????

The brake pads are OK.

When I break at around 100Km/h, it’s suddenly reducing the speed to 20-10km/h, which feels normal and no issue at all.

But from 10km/h to slow it down to 0km/h, I have to stand on the break paddle, which is very hard to paddle and ultimately hitting the floor board (This was not happening before).

While paddling the last moment I feel the car try to drag itself for some distance.

Before I take it to a mechanic, need your guy’s comments/Recommendations

Thanks in Advance..

Davy · June 11, 2013

Could be due to a vacuume leak from the servo or the line from the servo to the intake manifold. Does the brake pedal feel stiff when the car is on idle?

Rumesh88 · June 11, 2013

Just to add my 2 cents to Davy's reply above, do the following test which you can easily do all by yourself.

1. before you start the engine after being parked for sometime, press the break pedal hard a few times. Pedal stroke (travel) should be the same each time. If not you have a probable issue with the master pump like washers.
2. With the pedal depressed start the engine, the pedal should go down slightly. This is the normal operation. If not you have a issue with booster most likely a vacuum leak or the vacuum not reaching the booster (bit unlikely).
3. Release the pedal and allow the engine to run idle for a minute of so and then depress the pedal fully and switch off the engine while keeping the pedal depressed with constant force (better do it barefoot). Now hold it. The pedal stroke should remain at the same position (meaning it should not come up)for about 30 seconds. if the pedal comes up immediately you have a leak in the booster.
4. Release the pedal and start the engine again for about 2 min and switch off. The press the pedal consecutively for about five times. During first few strokes the pedal should come up progressively each time. This again confirms if the booster is airtight. If t comes up on the first stroke you have a leaky booster.

Whatever you do get it attended as soon as possible. Never run the car with a problem with the brake system. I myself learned a bitter lesson once!

Edited June 11, 2013 by Rumesh88

westcoast EK3 · June 12, 2013

On 6/11/2013 at 10:40 AM, Davy said:
Could be due to a vacuume leak from the servo or the line from the servo to the intake manifold. Does the brake pedal feel stiff when the car is on idle?

Yes ... its still stiff when the car is on idle,,

westcoast EK3 · June 12, 2013

On 6/11/2013 at 11:48 AM, Rumesh88 said:
Just to add my 2 cents to Davy's reply above, do the following test which you can easily do all by yourself.
1. before you start the engine after being parked for sometime, press the break pedal hard a few times. Pedal stroke (travel) should be the same each time. If not you have a probable issue with the master pump like washers.

2. With the pedal depressed start the engine, the pedal should go down slightly. This is the normal operation. If not you have a issue with booster most likely a vacuum leak or the vacuum not reaching the booster (bit unlikely).

3. Release the pedal and allow the engine to run idle for a minute of so and then depress the pedal fully and switch off the engine while keeping the pedal depressed with constant force (better do it barefoot). Now hold it. The pedal stroke should remain at the same position (meaning it should not come up)for about 30 seconds. if the pedal comes up immediately you have a leak in the booster.

4. Release the pedal and start the engine again for about 2 min and switch off. The press the pedal consecutively for about five times. During first few strokes the pedal should come up progressively each time. This again confirms if the booster is airtight. If t comes up on the first stroke you have a leaky booster.

Whatever you do get it attended as soon as possible. Never run the car with a problem with the brake system. I myself learned a bitter lesson once!

Ok. I will do the test as u said...will come back with the observations ...tnx

westcoast EK3 · June 12, 2013

On 6/11/2013 at 11:48 AM, Rumesh88 said:
Just to add my 2 cents to Davy's reply above, do the following test which you can easily do all by yourself.
1. before you start the engine after being parked for sometime, press the break pedal hard a few times. Pedal stroke (travel) should be the same each time. If not you have a probable issue with the master pump like washers.

2. With the pedal depressed start the engine, the pedal should go down slightly. This is the normal operation. If not you have a issue with booster most likely a vacuum leak or the vacuum not reaching the booster (bit unlikely).

3. Release the pedal and allow the engine to run idle for a minute of so and then depress the pedal fully and switch off the engine while keeping the pedal depressed with constant force (better do it barefoot). Now hold it. The pedal stroke should remain at the same position (meaning it should not come up)for about 30 seconds. if the pedal comes up immediately you have a leak in the booster.

4. Release the pedal and start the engine again for about 2 min and switch off. The press the pedal consecutively for about five times. During first few strokes the pedal should come up progressively each time. This again confirms if the booster is airtight. If t comes up on the first stroke you have a leaky booster.

Whatever you do get it attended as soon as possible. Never run the car with a problem with the brake system. I myself learned a bitter lesson once!

I have done the 1&2 results were normal.....

For 3&4 the paddle comes up immediately...

so its may be a leak in the booster.....one more thing I have noticed,,,,

when i press the break peddle the RPM get increased...

Is this Normal ???????

Rumesh88 · June 12, 2013

On 6/12/2013 at 7:35 AM, westcoast EK3 said:
I have done the 1&2 results were normal.....
For 3&4 the paddle comes up immediately...

so its may be a leak in the booster.....one more thing I have noticed,,,,

when i press the break peddle the RPM get increased...

Is this Normal ???????

Yes. You proved Davy right. RPM change could be a result of the same vacuum leak. This could be in the booster itself or in the connecting hose. At high speed intake generates a higher vacuum as you release the throttle and you seem to get the power assistance but on idle the vacuum leak becomes significant.

By all means now stop your testing, drive carefully, and get it attended.

westcoast EK3 · June 12, 2013

Thanx davy and Rumesh ......will come back with the results

westcoast EK3 · June 13, 2013

Today I went to the garage. found that leak in the booster,

Replace the the booster with Recon one.

work done within 2hrs.

Cost me arnd 14k......

Now its completely ok :-)

gsumith · June 13, 2013

On 6/11/2013 at 10:15 AM, westcoast EK3 said:
Guys,
I am having an issue with breaking of My ES8 (2001-VTEC).

The issue is continuing since 2days back. The ABS indicator is not showing any faults. If the problem with ABS sensor, it should indicate in the cluster know...Am I correct????

The brake pads are OK.

When I break at around 100Km/h, it’s suddenly reducing the speed to 20-10km/h, which feels normal and no issue at all.

But from 10km/h to slow it down to 0km/h, I have to stand on the break paddle, which is very hard to paddle and ultimately hitting the floor board (This was not happening before).

While paddling the last moment I feel the car try to drag itself for some distance.

Before I take it to a mechanic, need your guy’s comments/Recommendations

Thanks in Advance..

had same issue while drivin in hill country

NRX · June 13, 2013

On 6/13/2013 at 10:22 AM, westcoast EK3 said:
Today I went to the garage. found that leak in the booster,
Replace the the booster with Recon one.

work done within 2hrs.

Cost me arnd 14k......

Now its completely ok :-)

Was the booster taken off an ES8 or it was from something else ? And how much did the booster cost you ?

Davy · June 13, 2013

On 6/12/2013 at 2:48 AM, westcoast EK3 said:
Yes ... its still stiff when the car is on idle,,

Sorry for the long delay in replying. A stiff pedal on idle is a sign of insufficient vacuume in the servo (booster). Rarely do servos give in, but it turns out it was actually the servo which had gone bad in your case.

Anyway, I'm glad you managed to fix the issue real quick.

westcoast EK3 · June 14, 2013

On 6/13/2013 at 11:02 AM, NRX said:
Was the booster taken off an ES8 or it was from something else ? And how much did the booster cost you ?

No.. it was not from an ES8, It was from an ES1,

but its was perfectly fitted for the ES8. (even the booster diameter quite large than the ES8 one)

only problem was i couldn't use my previous master cylinder as well. I had to buy and fixed complete unit.

Booster + Master cylinder complete unit cost me Rs 12000/-

Labour - 1250/-

Brake oil - 750/-

westcoast EK3 · June 14, 2013

On 6/13/2013 at 12:08 PM, Davy said:
Sorry for the long delay in replying. A stiff pedal on idle is a sign of insufficient vacuume in the servo (booster). Rarely do servos give in, but it turns out it was actually the servo which had gone bad in your case.
Anyway, I'm glad you managed to fix the issue real quick.

Luckily i found a Recon one. otherwise It will get a week to rectify.

one more thing

Can I repair previous booster ????

As per the service manual they not recommend for repaired booster...

only recommendation is to replace with a new one

(The same thing said by the mechanic)

but any how can i have any chance to repair and re use it ?????

Edited June 14, 2013 by westcoast EK3

Davy · June 14, 2013

Luckily i found a Recon one. otherwise It will get a week to rectify.

one more thing

Can I repair previous booster ????

As per the service manual they not recommend for repaired booster...

only recommendation is to replace with a new one

(The same thing said by the mechanic)

but any how can i have any chance to repair and re use it ?????</blockquote>

I'm afraid the servo is not serviceable, so you cannot repair it and re-use it as far as I know. I personally don't think you should even consider repairing the servo, because it's a critical component of the brake system.

If your concern is not being able to find the exact servo, maybe you can slowly look around for one since ve taken out the defective servo and thus have the sample. Keep your original master pump in a safe dry place until you find the servo.