My A72 Build

[dingy]

I thought you were going to turn out the manifold in chrome (to complement the air intake). But if I were to pick a colour, it would be silver I guess. One thing to keep in mind is that you will have to use primer and paint that will withstand extremely high temperatures. I don't think regular high heat paint (stuff that we use to paint brake calipers and valve covers will do).

One question: Any particular reason going for a 4-2-1 manifold instead of the stock 4-1? As far as I know, 4-2-1 manifolds are used mostly in conventional cars whereas 4-1s are used in performance vehicles as it offers more power at high revs. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Davy 4-2-1 is highly effective at mid range rpm..a 4-1 is used in race cars since they run at high rpm...yep the painter is gonna get it done for me in silver..Also the chrome will cost me a lot davy

http://www.redline360.com/garage/4-1-vs-4-2-1-headers-what-is-the-difference-what-makes-more-powerhttp://www.redline360.com/garage/4-1-vs-4-2-1-headers-what-is-the-difference-what-makes-more-power

Edited April 23, 2014 by dingy

[dingy]

Hey man let me or Kelum know when you're going

Planning to go on the 8th..have to attend my cousins wedding..care to join got an extra bike as well..

;p

[Hoonigan]

I spoke to Sacha and he quoted based on mild steel headers and he mentioned that he has to use a different type of Stainless Steel for the headers if we are to go that route and would be more expensive (he didn't mention by how much) The guy who imported the parts for me also has a silencer shop and he flat out said not to do SS headers citing that it will overheat the heads. So I guess it's not a very straightforward affair as it may seem.

Regarding the colour, I'd rather go with a flat black if it was me. Any light shade will dull pretty fast because of the heat and it's location and won't look as nice after a short while.

EDIT: or Heat wrap it!

Edited April 24, 2014 by Hoonigan

[MasterDon]

I see rust.

May I also point out, the amount of cooling you have just needs to be relative to the application and the amount of cooling you need. For example if its an N/A engine with no oil cooler originally integrated, you probably don't need one unless you plan to race the car. A good radiator with a an electrical fan and correct thermostatic control should be all you need.

Remember engine oil being warm isn't a bad thing A cold engine is not a great thing to have either!

This +1000!

Some people put oil coolers for the sake of it and because the look cool and sorta they look like an intercooler.I dunno who they're trying to fool....In the end they up losing power and wearing out the internals prematurely(cos the engine is always under optimum temperature)... .Unless you're going crazy with performance mods the stock set up should be adequate especially on a small jap engine.If not a temp sensitive electric cooling fan should do the trick.

[Hoonigan]

LOL, I'm waiting for GI pipe roll cages to catch on

[dingy]

I spoke to Sacha and he quoted based on mild steel headers and he mentioned that he has to use a different type of Stainless Steel for the headers if we are to go that route and would be more expensive (he didn't mention by how much) The guy who imported the parts for me also has a silencer shop and he flat out said not to do SS headers citing that it will overheat the heads. So I guess it's not a very straightforward affair as it may seem.

Regarding the colour, I'd rather go with a flat black if it was me. Any light shade will dull pretty fast because of the heat and it's location and won't look as nice after a short while.

EDIT: or Heat wrap it!

Its not done out of SS..been done out of cast iron......

the headers went in today had a ride its really smooth and can see a healthy power improvement..will get the clutch plate and the pressure plate replaced tomorrow..also got down a heat wrap thought of adding it to the air intake..

will update u guys with pictures asap

[Hoonigan]

Its not done out of SS..been done out of cast iron......

the headers went in today had a ride its really smooth and can see a healthy power improvement..will get the clutch plate and the pressure plate replaced tomorrow..also got down a heat wrap thought of adding it to the air intake..

will update u guys with pictures asap

Good to hear. Your car is almost done then! Heat wrap is better used on the exhaust side though.

I'm not sure how effective it will be to keep heat out of the intake. It might backfire on you and heat it up.

[dingy]

This is the finished headers awaiting its custom paint job and the heat wrap

Edited April 26, 2014 by dingy

[dingy]

Guys anyone knows the stock rim size for this

Thanksin advance

[Davy]

Guys anyone knows the stock rim size for this

Thanksin advance

The 1200 sedan and 1400 station wagon had 12" stock rims. I remember the SL 5 forward having 13" rims as well.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Davy

[charithtg]

It's quite the opposite actually.

Black is absorbent, silver is reflective. So if at all, it's the INSIDE that should be black so that it absorbs the heat from the oil better and silver on the outside, to prevent the radiator from absorbing unnecessary external heat. But I doubt this paint/colour would do any noticeable difference.

A little rusty on my physics but if I remember right machan, black absorbs and dissipates heat the fastest compared to white or a polished surface, But I doubt the colour will have such a noticeable impact on this application.

@dingy, the one mounted now looks a bit busted because of the damaged fins. and I see Sickspeed is a favorite but you might find better deals other than sickspeed. They are not particularly well established as a brand and I've read reviews on some of their products failing due to lack of quality.

so in connection to the black body discussion, as i remember right what i learnt about radiation n stuff, the color black is black because it absorbs all the light it gets and convert it to heat.

For example, if you see a red car, that is because the material is absorbing all the light from the sun and only reflecting red thus you see red. So if there’s a possibility that you can direct a light bean that doesn’t have any red in it, the car would be black to out eyes.

So with that, black absorbs everything and heat itself up. That is why we use those reflective shinny folding thingys to cover glass in the car, coz it reflects almost all the light including Infrared.

When talking about radiators (water or oil) the purpose is to remove the heat from the liquids and release that to the air. So heat conducts from oil to the metal tubes n fins through convection thus not having anything in-between the two is better. The primary way of releasing heat from the radiator’s outer surface to the air is by convection. Thus according to what i know, having nothing in-between is the best as well. But to reduce corrosion n stuff a coating is applied that has the maximum coefficient of conductivity. Color really doesn’t matter in that sense.

But lastly we have to give consideration to the environment the cooler or the radiator is in, it gets sunlight, and heat radiated from the engine. So with that the main method that heat will be transmitted to the radiator is through radiation. Thus, according to what i understand its better to have a outer appearance in light shinny color (i.e, aluminium) so that it won’t absorb the IR from the environment.

[dingy]

Guys i need your valuable advice once again..the brakes have become an issue.what do guys think if i get a set of ck2 discs and fabricate them?

Thank You

[Davy]

What exactly is the issue? Poor braking power?

[dingy]

Yes Davy. I repaired the complete brake system...from the liners to the cylinders..also the master pump was repaired..the first few times u use the brakes it's okay.but once it gets heated up its not effective at all

Edited June 16, 2014 by dingy

[The Don]

Yes Davy. I repaired the complete brake system...from the liners to the cylinders..also the master pump was repaired..the first few times u use the brakes it's okay.but once it gets heated up its not effective at all

Could it be the quality of the compound on the brake shoes, or that the drum itself is not evenly worn or too worn?

[dingy]

Could it be the quality of the compound on the brake shoes, or that the drum itself is not evenly worn or too worn?

Don While the car was undergoing tinkering i got the drums refilled.The shoes were replaced with brand new ones

[Davy]

The brakes on the A72 might be one of the things I had to spend most of my time on, back when I had mine. I had quite a number of other friends who owned A72s and were going through a tough time trying to solve them. I was finally able to solve mine and bring the brakes back to their original level. This is what I tried:

1. Replace brake shoes

The Don is right, using poor quality brake shoes is a direct contributor to poor braking. Buy a set of good brake pads (preferably Japanese) and see if that makes a difference. This I guess is one of the cheapest things to try out. Although the shoes on your car are new, the brand might be a problem here.

2. Resurface the drums

If the drums still have a good thickness in them, you might want to consider getting them resurfaced. This is sure to boost up braking power. Re-filling the brake drums is a huge "no" IMO because you'd be heating up the drum to do so and the steel could get more worn out due to the heat. How exactly did you re-fill the drums? Did you get a sleeve soldered? I had an idea to get a set of sleeves soldered to fill the drums, but my mechanic advised against it and told me to try and find a good set of drums. And that's what I did.

3. Replace the REAR drums

Try to find a good set of drums. This is one of the things that ultimately worked for me. My front brakes were better compared to the rear ones and I know by experience tht it's the rear brakes that fail.

4. Go for a disk conversion

In my case, I was lucky enough to find a good set of used A72 front disks. I just had to get them reconditioned, the rotors resurfaced and they were just plug and play. This will definitely improve the brakes considerably.

5. Install a servo

At one point, I installed a servo that came with some of the A72s. The servo installation was also plug and play although I had to modify the brake pedals and stuff (which was okay). When I installed the servo, I had drums all round so the car still dragged a bit when brakes were applied although the effort needed to stop the car was significantly less. If you're going for a servo, then I'd recommend you go for front disks as well. I wanted the car to be original, so after installing disks, I removed the servo and installed a brand new master pump. The brakes were perfect after that.

In summary, I suggest that you try the small ones first (like change the pads, get the drums re-surfaced etc.). Since you have re-filled the drums, I would suggest that you go for a new set of drums altogether. Re-filling is just making things worse IMO. The metal used to fill the drum probably cannot stand the heat, and doesnt grip properly when the mechanism is hot. Also, give a thorough inspection accross the entire braking system covering all brake lines. A bent/dented brake line also could be a reason for poor braking. If your brake oil is old, flush everything out with new oil. Once you are absolutely sure that these are taken care of, you can move on to severe measures.

Apart from the above steps, you can also go for a brake kit (both front and rear) from a Lancer Box (as I might have mentioned on this thread earlier). It's a perfect match for the A72 and a guaranteed solution.

I must also say that I haven't mention the things I tried that didn't work at all. I tried filling the handbrake self-adjusting mechanism, tried soldering it in place to prevent it from snapping, used slave cylinders from a L200, used spacers between the brake pads and the slave cylinder pistons (to bring the shoes closer to the drum). I even remember driving with the hand brake pulled slightly because the brake pedal would sink due to worn out drums.

Anyway, I hope I gave you some pointers to what you can try.

[dingy]

The brakes on the A72 might be one of the things I had to spend most of my time on, back when I had mine. I had quite a number of other friends who owned A72s and were going through a tough time trying to solve them. I was finally able to solve mine and bring the brakes back to their original level. This is what I tried:

1. Replace brake shoes

The Don is right, using poor quality brake shoes is a direct contributor to poor braking. Buy a set of good brake pads (preferably Japanese) and see if that makes a difference. This I guess is one of the cheapest things to try out. Although the shoes on your car are new, the brand might be a problem here.

2. Resurface the drums

If the drums still have a good thickness in them, you might want to consider getting them resurfaced. This is sure to boost up braking power. Re-filling the brake drums is a huge "no" IMO because you'd be heating up the drum to do so and the steel could get more worn out due to the heat. How exactly did you re-fill the drums? Did you get a sleeve soldered? I had an idea to get a set of sleeves soldered to fill the drums, but my mechanic advised against it and told me to try and find a good set of drums. And that's what I did.

3. Replace the REAR drums

Try to find a good set of drums. This is one of the things that ultimately worked for me. My front brakes were better compared to the rear ones and I know by experience tht it's the rear brakes that fail.

4. Go for a disk conversion

In my case, I was lucky enough to find a good set of used A72 front disks. I just had to get them reconditioned, the rotors resurfaced and they were just plug and play. This will definitely improve the brakes considerably.

5. Install a servo

At one point, I installed a servo that came with some of the A72s. The servo installation was also plug and play although I had to modify the brake pedals and stuff (which was okay). When I installed the servo, I had drums all round so the car still dragged a bit when brakes were applied although the effort needed to stop the car was significantly less. If you're going for a servo, then I'd recommend you go for front disks as well. I wanted the car to be original, so after installing disks, I removed the servo and installed a brand new master pump. The brakes were perfect after that.

In summary, I suggest that you try the small ones first (like change the pads, get the drums re-surfaced etc.). Since you have re-filled the drums, I would suggest that you go for a new set of drums altogether. Re-filling is just making things worse IMO. The metal used to fill the drum probably cannot stand the heat, and doesnt grip properly when the mechanism is hot. Also, give a thorough inspection accross the entire braking system covering all brake lines. A bent/dented brake line also could be a reason for poor braking. If your brake oil is old, flush everything out with new oil. Once you are absolutely sure that these are taken care of, you can move on to severe measures.

Apart from the above steps, you can also go for a brake kit (both front and rear) from a Lancer Box (as I might have mentioned on this thread earlier). It's a perfect match for the A72 and a guaranteed solution.

I must also say that I haven't mention the things I tried that didn't work at all. I tried filling the handbrake self-adjusting mechanism, tried soldering it in place to prevent it from snapping, used slave cylinders from a L200, used spacers between the brake pads and the slave cylinder pistons (to bring the shoes closer to the drum). I even remember driving with the hand brake pulled slightly because the brake pedal would sink due to worn out drums.

Anyway, I hope I gave you some pointers to what you can try.

Davy all of the above was done except for the disc conversion.Also i do apologize for the delayed reply .The discs at panchikawatte are overpriced.but might go for a set..

[The Don]

Davy all of the above was done except for the disc conversion.Also i do apologize for the delayed reply .The discs at panchikawatte are overpriced.but might go for a set..

Did you replace the drums though? and install a new master pump like Davy did?

I find this a bit interesting as being a Mitsubishi I would expect the brake system to be more sophisticated. The Corolla's of this age had front discs.

[Davy]

Davy all of the above was done except for the disc conversion.Also i do apologize for the delayed reply .The discs at panchikawatte are overpriced.but might go for a set..

How much did they quote you for the discs? Mine cost about 8000 back in 2010. I had to spend a little more to refurbish the brakes (get the disks resurfaced etc.)

Did you replace the drums though? and install a new master pump like Davy did?

I find this a bit interesting as being a Mitsubishi I would expect the brake system to be more sophisticated. The Corolla's of this age had front discs.

Yes, I agree The Don. Even the KE50 had front discs if I remember correctly. The Lancer A72 however came with disc brakes only on the SL 5 forward models and of course the 1600 GSR.

[The Don]

Don While the car was undergoing tinkering i got the drums refilled.The shoes were replaced with brand new ones

Refilling is not the same as replacing. This is probably where your problem lies. The metal compound used to refill is probably suceptible to overheating causing brake fade as it overheats. You need new drums.....

[Watchman]

Refilling is not the same as replacing. This is probably where your problem lies. The metal compound used to refill is probably suceptible to overheating causing brake fade as it overheats. You need new drums.....

I hear re-lining is also a possibility on hard to find drums.

[dingy]

How much did they quote you for the discs? Mine cost about 8000 back in 2010. I had to spend a little more to refurbish the brakes (get the disks resurfaced etc.)

Yes, I agree The Don. Even the KE50 had front discs if I remember correctly. The Lancer A72 however came with disc brakes only on the SL 5 forward models and of course the 1600 GSR.

They wanted 38k for it.was told will give it for around 35 if i trade the drums also.Plus those discs need restoring.Actually to really honest DON the brakes got much worse after it was filled.According to my mechanic he said that any disc from a rear wheel drive car should do the trick with a bit of fabrication.currently i got to pump the brake twice before i could brake if the speed is a little above 50.

Edited June 25, 2014 by dingy

[rameez]

dingy as per davy did you try the lancer box brake conversion. some other mechanic told me that as well.

[dingy]

Guy got some good news.Replaced the washer kit in the brake pump and found the brakes to be much better than before..

Also guys any idea how i need to approach the lowering procedure..the rear leafs could be put the lowest setting as it is in the highest at the moment but how do i do the same with the front

Thanks