No brake after pad change, help needed

rcmadawala · October 15, 2016

Hi guys,

I've a Nissan TIIDA 2008 car. I've tried to replace my front disks by my self. However after putting new pads, the caliper didn't fit. Since I didn't had a C-clamp, what I've done was,

1). remove the bleeding valve

2). fit the caliper with one pad

3). put a flat head through the caliper and push against the disk so oil will be bleed from the valve and the piston will give space to fit the caliper.

I've done this to both front discs and replaces with new pads. But after i switch on the car and press the paddle, there is no brake at all

So what I've done is loose the valve and keep paddling the brake. But I've seen i should close the valve before release the paddle. I haven't close it while releasing he paddle. Now i think more air is in the system. On the left side car had bleeding but when i move to the right side, almost no oil came when paddling. Just hiss sound and bubbles.

paddle is squeezing very softly. I checked the brake oil level and it is close the max level in the tank.

Can you please help me on what I've done wrong and how to fix it ?

Edited October 15, 2016 by rcmadawala

Dushyantha · October 15, 2016

brake bleeding is usually a 2 person job . its easier if you watch some videos on youtube rather than me trying to explain it . and always do search , gather as much information as possible when you are attempting to do a DIY job + make sure you have all the correct tools at hand for the job .

heres a vid which would help . cheers . and nice to see your attempting a diy job while some people are just plain scared to even loosen a wheel nut these days . But always make sure you gather all the info you can about the procedure before attempting a DIY job and also have the right tools at hand which makes things waaay more easier .

TechHater · October 15, 2016

Seems you've got more air into the system . You need to bleed all wheels now. Loosen the nipple screw. Get hold of someone to peddle while you bleed the system till no bubbles come out(may need extra brake oil)

u don't need to unscrew the nipple next time. Instead place the old brake pad on the piston and using a long screw diver as a pivot (on brake pad casing) apply firm pressure. That'll press down the piston slowly.

rcmadawala · October 15, 2016

On 10/15/2016 at 4:32 PM, Dushyantha said:

brake bleeding is usually a 2 person job . its easier if you watch some videos on youtube rather than me trying to explain it . and always do search , gather as much information as possible when you are attempting to do a DIY job + make sure you have all the correct tools at hand for the job .

heres a vid which would help . cheers . and nice to see your attempting a diy job while some people are just plain scared to even loosen a wheel nut these days . But always make sure you gather all the info you can about the procedure before attempting a DIY job and also have the right tools at hand which makes things waaay more easier .

Expand

Yeah i should do more search before start a DIY job.

rcmadawala · October 15, 2016

On 10/15/2016 at 4:33 PM, TechHater said:

Seems you've got more air into the system . You need to bleed all wheels now. Loosen the nipple screw. Get hold of someone to peddle while you bleed the system till no bubbles come out(may need extra brake oil)

u don't need to unscrew the nipple next time. Instead place the old brake pad on the piston and using a long screw diver as a pivot (on brake pad casing) apply firm pressure. That'll press down the piston slowly.

Expand

So now do i have to bleed rear ones (drum brakes) as well ?

if so is there any order that i should start bleeding ?

Edited October 15, 2016 by rcmadawala

Twin Turbo · October 16, 2016

Did ya re tighten the bleeding valve?

Yes the calipers may need to auto adjust. Make sure the Fluid reservoir is full and pump the br pedal hard a couple of time.

If bnot you'll need a bleed like my colleagues have mentioned.

P.S. Did you replace both (inner &outer) pads with new ones each wheel?

Edited October 16, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Dushyantha · October 16, 2016

On 10/15/2016 at 4:41 PM, rcmadawala said:

if so is there any order that i should start bleeding ?

Expand

have no idea if bleeding the rear brakes is necessary or not . but if the air has traveled a long way up then Yes . start from the most furthest brake from the master cylinder and continue .wouldnt have to remove the drums . the bleeding nipple is behind the brake cover plate. make sure you keep an eye on the brake fluid reservoir and keep it topped up and be careful with the brake fluid. it damages paintwork .

Rumesh88 · October 16, 2016

On 10/15/2016 at 4:41 PM, rcmadawala said:

So now do i have to bleed rear ones (drum brakes) as well ?

if so is there any order that i should start bleeding ?

Expand

Well before you change brake pads keep a C-clamp - even a cheap one will do unless you have a whole fleet do deal with - with you to avid getting into this kind of trouble particularly so with ABS systems. Now that you are in a mess first try to sort it out so that at least you will be able to drive to a repair shop safely.

Buy a piece of clear plastic tube of size that would snugly fit to the nipple (1/4 inch or kaala size as they call it would do). Begin with the slave cylinder furthermost from the master, which in this case would be the passenger side rear. Fix the tube to the nipple and keep the other end of the tube inside a container like an old jam jar. Ask someone to help you at either the brake paddle or at the cylinder. With brake paddle depressed fully and held in place loosen the nipple and observe the flow in clear tube. Tighten the nipple before releasing the peddle. If you find bubbles you need to repeat the process until bubbles disappear. Repeat the same for the other three and see if the paddle becomes hard. Go for a drive test on a vacant road with a clear view and check if the brakes are effective and ABS kicks in. If they are still spongy but drive-able safely (anyway do so with extreme caution cos I myself met with an accident trying to do the same. Otherwise use a carrier) my advice is to take it to a place where they can suck the air out and bleed the whole system.

Davy · October 16, 2016

To add to what Rumesh has mentioned above, you may not be able to completely remove all air from the brake system if what you did caused air to get trapped inside the ABS module. This is why it's important to take your car to a place that will be able to confirm that the brake system is completely bled out.

rcmadawala · October 16, 2016

Update !!!!

I'll start from the beginning just to share my experience with you guys and learn something.

This is the reason that i wanted to check the break.

https://youtu.be/XEg1fJgYBI0

So i jacked up the car and removed the left side wheel and this is what i found

you can see a piece of brake pad hanging there. So I've decided to do a DIY job on changing pads after watching couple of youtube clips. you guys already know what I've done from first post.

this was how it looked like with new pads

So today morning I've remove the wheels again and start to do a bleeding like this.

while doing this i noticed front bleeding valves had rust on them so I've replaced them with new ones.

What I've done is the same thing rumesh has mentioned. I started from rear right and bled all wheels. I used two 500ml D.O.T 3 lockheed bottles for this and about 1/4 of fluid left in the second bottle. Break paddle was nicely tight after bleeding and i was happy with it until i switch on the engine. :wacko2:

After i started the engine again the original issue came. paddle was squeezing very softly again. But when i switched off the engine smoothness is gone. So I've decided to keep the engine running and bleed again. That's why i wanted a second bottle of brake fluid. After bleeding two three times (bled only front wheels this time) while keep running the engine, result is the same. So I've given up the hopes and decided to take a mechanic to the home and inspect the car. :prankster:

But after fitting wheels, I wanted to check if there is any brake left on the car and guess what, it had some brakes in it.

I had to press all the way to the down to get some brakes. So I've tested on close by roads and decided to take it to the G*ITZ P**k, Miriswatta. Had to drive under 20KMPH about 15 KMs.

So once i hand over car to them, this is what they did,

1). Lift up the car while one mechanic sitting on the driver seat.

2). Driver kept pressing the paddle until the mechanic who is under the vehicle shouting "hariii".

3). Mechanic open a valve and lot of fluid coming out. No tubes nothing. Just on to the floor. Then he close it and shouting "haaa hariiii" so driver can start paddling again.

4). They did this two three times per a wheel.

5). While doing this they monitor the fluid level on master cylinder and fill it when necessary.

6). They started the engine and did the same again.

7). Guess what. The holy brakes are back.

8). They threw water from a gallon, where fluid were contacted with the car.

9). Bill came 600/= labor charges and 390/= brake fluid.

Guess i were on the right track but needed to do more bleeding. This is the sound after disc pad replacement.

https://youtu.be/_8IC5bVY3aA

Seems to be less noise compared to before. But still have some noise left. Most of the time sound only coming when applying brakes on a slope. Also it is coming if i apply brakes very slowly and when i keep applying sound is gone. When cruising, no sound coming from the brakes at all. Do you guys have an idea on this ?

Total bill for the job is

6000 for brake pads

1200 for brake fluids

300 for new bleeding valves

990 for G**TZ park

Total 8490/=

lesson learnt, never start a DIY job without necessary tools in hand !!!

Edited October 16, 2016 by rcmadawala

Dushyantha · October 16, 2016

good to hear you sorted out the problem without much difficulty . when replacing brakepads its always good to resurface the disks as well because now you have a completely flat brake pad surface and if you look at the disk you would be able to see that the disk surface isnt completely flat. resurfacing is where the disks are put in a lathe and the disk surface is machined to give a smooth even surface so that the break pads sit flush on the disk . Not an expert but i think that sound in the vdeo comes when the brake disk surfaces are polished and shiny . and facing the disks and drums would solve your issue i guess .

rcmadawala · October 17, 2016

On 10/16/2016 at 3:00 PM, Dushyantha said:

good to hear you sorted out the problem without much difficulty . when replacing brakepads its always good to resurface the disks as well because now you have a completely flat brake pad surface and if you look at the disk you would be able to see that the disk surface isnt completely flat. resurfacing is where the disks are put in a lathe and the disk surface is machined to give a smooth even surface so that the break pads sit flush on the disk . Not an expert but i think that sound in the vdeo comes when the brake disk surfaces are polished and shiny . and facing the disks and drums would solve your issue i guess .

Expand

Hmm. I thought lathe is not needed yet for the rotors yet. So in this case do i need to resurface drums also ?

Another question, I said the mechanics threw water from a gallon on areas where brake fluid has spilled. Do you think that is enough ? If not is it ok to use a brake part cleaner on those areas ?

Dushyantha · October 17, 2016

no point in resurfacing the drums without replacing the brake liners . since your front brake pads were worn out the rears would also need to be replaced at some point in the near future so when you replace the liners make sure you face the drums

Rohnd · October 17, 2016

On 10/17/2016 at 3:22 AM, rcmadawala said:

Hmm. I thought lathe is not needed yet for the rotors yet. So in this case do i need to resurface drums also ?

Another question, I said the mechanics threw water from a gallon on areas where brake fluid has spilled. Do you think that is enough ? If not is it ok to use a brake part cleaner on those areas ?

Expand

There is a concept called ' Initial Bed in' to enhance the performance of the changes you done with new pads. Better to have a web search on that.

The mechanic threw water as a cleaning aid to prevent the body paint damages and related since water absorb brake oil greatly,

A brake part cleaner is for another purpose.

He has done a wrong procedure by neglecting the brake oil spill to the environment, since there are methods. Shows another Maka Bass theory.