The future of education sector in our country

[iRage]

So these days they give out MBAs to anyone it seems ? Back in the day...MBA applicants needed to have at least 5 years professional experience (pref at least in a Jnr. Management role) before they accepted you in to the program. As a MBA I can tell you that the biggest/greatest element you will walk away with from your MBA would be the professional networks you will be able to access/build. So make sure you pick the right program and most importantly the right University.Institute. Depending on the program and the institute the networks made available to you varies greatly. Pick a good uni... wait, save money, gain experience if you must...There are plenty of private institutions that slap on foreign university names and offer all kinds of degrees. Be selective. Out of the local institutes the PIM - UoSJ was pretty decent (and no..I didn't graduate from there...know quite a few alumni who did and are doing a lot better than most of the mass-class foreign-local program MBA holders). No idea how it is now.

Anyway....I too would say buy a car. A small old fashioned car. I would say something like a box lancer or a corolla/sprinter E80, KE72/74 or even a Sunny (i find the B11 sunny hideous though), etc...Something which is pretty hardy and easy to maintain. With your savings and the money from your parents plus a few months savings, you should be able to pick up a decent specimen. Also, if you are in to cars...the mechanics on these things are quite simple that you will learn quite a lot by doing things yourself (thus, saving some money). No fancy electronics and hyper-sensitive sensors and ECUs to deal with. You could do a simple tune-up at home in a matter of hours (leave the carb alone !). 

Will the above be 100% trouble free....def. not...but it won't cost that much in time and money to fix. During the days it is in the garage; use a taxi (to be honest most of the time using a taxi to go for lectures and even work stuff is a lot more easier than driving considering the hassles of parking in Colombo) AND you don't have huge loans to pay off. 

Just an alternative point of view

[Crosswind]

15 hours ago, YoungGrasshopper said:

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input! Keep 'em coming!

I probably should have mentioned this earlier. The central bank a.k.a "The Parents" are willing to lend me another 200k or so, and have told me to go for a loan or whatever if I need more money for a car.

On the career side, I've completed my professional qualifications, but have a plan to enroll in an MBA next year. The total cost of an MBA is around 600k. I've been thinking about all this, and I realize that there is a high chance of me ending up in a tight spot if I try to juggle funding both a loan and an MBA.

So @gayanath and @fiatLife, I hear you loud and clear

Also @Crosswind, interesting perspective machang! What car did you buy?

Cheers,

Grasshopper,

There are shops nowadays that sell MBAs by the truckload. Very soon MBAs in this country will be treated the same way as MBAs in India (FYI, a research has found that only 7% of MBA graduates in India have gained enough knowledge to be 'employable').

These courses are designed in a way that students attend classes just 2 or 3 times and get the assignments done by paying assignment factories (check ikm*n for ads and ads about assignment factories). Ironically the people who do the assignments for money are the same lecturers who teach/tutor those courses. Further, there's a massive pressure on lecturers from institute administration and also the overseas university to pass the students. Believe it or not. 'Cos if the course is tough and a student fails, they will loose more money as new students won't join in.

You will find more value in buying toilet paper worth Rs. 600k than getting one of those MBAs.

Yes there are some exceptions such as the PIM but the quality of that too, seems to have diluted recently.

Unless there's a compelling reason for you to do an MBA (such as mandated and paid by your employer), my advice is forget the MBA. Gain enough skills in your trade and look for highly targeted professional qualifications instead. Join special interest groups, go for conferences and seminars to build your professional networks - that's an easier and a cheaper way. 

If you really want to do an MBA, DO NOT join ANY private institute in the country. 

Just for the record, I do visiting lectures for both undergrads and postgrads in semi-government and private sector institutes in the country.

 

[iRage]

Okay..so crosswinds was more blunt in what I was trying to say...a MBA can be useful at the right time. First get some experience behind you. Get some focus on the profession you want to pursue. Then, when  the time is right get a MBA from a proper body. Therefore...go for a car. Don't get yourself in to tons of debt. 

Sad to hear about PIM  But then considering the state of the education system in SL I guess its no surprise.

 

[gayanath]

1 hour ago, Crosswind said:

Grasshopper,

There are shops nowadays that sell MBAs by the truckload. Very soon MBAs in this country will be treated the same way as MBAs in India (FYI, a research has found that only 7% of MBA graduates in India have gained enough knowledge to be 'employable').

These courses are designed in a way that students attend classes just 2 or 3 times and get the assignments done by paying assignment factories (check ikm*n for ads and ads about assignment factories). Ironically the people who do the assignments for money are the same lecturers who teach/tutor those courses. Further, there's a massive pressure on lecturers from institute administration and also the overseas university to pass the students. Believe it or not. 'Cos if the course is tough and a student fails, they will loose more money as new students won't join in.

You will find more value in buying toilet paper worth Rs. 600k than getting one of those MBAs.

Yes there are some exceptions such as the PIM but the quality of that too, seems to have diluted recently.

If you really want to do an MBA, DO NOT join ANY private institute in the country. 

Just for the record, I do visiting lectures for both undergrads and postgrads in semi-government and private sector institutes in the country.

 

Now this is turning in to nice subject. 

This time I agree 100% with crosswind. @Crosswind what about your stand about SAITM. I mean not only just SAITM, but looking the quality of our medical education in future if given the chance for SAITM (Will not MBBS degree be equal a toilet paper as well in future?). 

Let's start another suitable thread if this is not the suitable place. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by gayanath

[Crosswind]

This is neither a suitable thread nor a suitable forum for that kind of a discussion (unless Mods are ok with doing so in the lounge.)

There are too many things that happen in the education sector in the country in both private and government sector institutes (yes I used to work closely with state unis as well). For example, its not only the private sector students who get their assignments done by factories. Bribes, sexual favours and even paying your own supervisor to do your PhD thesis is happenning as we speak in prominent govt universities as well.

So singling out one institute just plain silly. 

But the good thing that will come out of all this, is Sri Lankan organizations will learn to place more value on an employee's skills and abilities than the paper they carry, irrespective of where the paper comes from.

 

[gayanath]

@Crosswind, @iRage, Now we have a pitch to play

[matroska]

2 hours ago, Crosswind said:

 

But the good thing that will come out of all this, is Sri Lankan organizations will learn to place more value on an employee's skills and abilities than the paper they carry, irrespective of where the paper comes from.

 

I think even currently there is more emphasis given to 'Employability' than 'Qualifications'(at least more compared to the past)

[Crosswind]

2 hours ago, matroska said:

I think even currently there is more emphasis given to 'Employability' than 'Qualifications'(at least more compared to the past)

Yes - in most of the modern private sector companies (especially in the IT industry) and multinational companies

Not really - in most of the private companies which have been in existence for donkey's years

Hell no - in government sector.

Did you know that in govt sector, many of the graduate posts are filled without even a single interview? (I'm not talking about political appointees here). They are afraid that 'rakiya virahitha upaadhidaareen' will end up not getting the job if they are asked to face an interview so they are appointed solely based on the CV.

[YoungGrasshopper]

Hey guys,

thanks for the info. will check out that other thread.

And @iRage and @Crosswind, I do have my eye on PIM for now, but even on the MBA scene, nothing is concrete as yet. I'm keeping my options open (local vs. foreign). I'm involved with  few startups over here, so that's the basis on which I'm trying to lodge my application.

Anyway, back to cars...

What do you guys think is a good brand new car for a guy like me to buy, once I've saved up some more money? Something that won't embarrass the better half would be good  

----------------------------------->

Sorry guys, wrong thread I guess...

Edited November 21, 2016 by YoungGrasshopper
Wrong thread

[matroska]

14 hours ago, Crosswind said:

Yes - in most of the modern private sector companies (especially in the IT industry) and multinational companies

Not really - in most of the private companies which have been in existence for donkey's years

Hell no - in government sector.

Did you know that in govt sector, many of the graduate posts are filled without even a single interview? (I'm not talking about political appointees here). They are afraid that 'rakiya virahitha upaadhidaareen' will end up not getting the job if they are asked to face an interview so they are appointed solely based on the CV.

yeah that makes sense. I'm working in the IT industry and of course you've got to be a lot more than a guy with 19 BSC's and 17 MBA's you've just got to know your shit AND you have to be someone who can work with people. Plus no one gives a rats ass if you complete an MBA or a PHD or whatever  - I think in Govt MBA is a qualificaiton to get promoted ...  I didn't know there are 0 interview appointments in Govt I thought you go through some basic interview and you get the job  

[Crosswind]

Well... the govt/semi-govt sector requirements are sofa king hilarious. U will roll on the floor laughing.

Here are some:

Our national airline requires senior staff (including pilots) to do a masters (most of the time, an MBA) in their 50s... when they are just in the verge of retiring

In many govt departments, engineering appointees need to do a masters to get promoted to deputy director/director level. This masters needs to be done after 17 years of work experience the same sector... good news is they get schols to do the masters. Bad news is by that age (we are talking about mid-late 40s), 90% of their brain cells are dead.

In orgs such as our national electricity company, water company, telephone company etc., a masters is the only requirement to get promoted after a certain level, even if you have been sleeping in the job whole day, 8-5, 5-days a week. 

In state unis, even if you have authored quadrillion research papers, a library of books, discovered a new molecule, proven Fermat's Last Theorem and won the Nobel Prize, you will not get beyond Senior Lecturer post, until you get a PhD.

 

[iRage]

17 hours ago, gayanath said:

@Crosswind, @iRage, Now we have a pitch to play

Don't get me started on our education system...the damn pitch is not large enough. It was BRILLIANT during colonial times though....

I have nothing against people getting educated and learning something...do your 16.25 degrees if you need to make yourself perform better. get your M.Sc, MBA, Ph.D, but do it at the right time for the right reasons. 

What sucks in SL is we are still stuck in a rut where we measure peoples' ability by the physical weight of their degree certificates.

 

[matroska]

1 hour ago, Crosswind said:

Well... the govt/semi-govt sector requirements are sofa king hilarious. U will roll on the floor laughing.

Here are some:

Our national airline requires senior staff (including pilots) to do a masters (most of the time, an MBA) in their 50s... when they are just in the verge of retiring

In many govt departments, engineering appointees need to do a masters to get promoted to deputy director/director level. This masters needs to be done after 17 years of work experience the same sector... good news is they get schols to do the masters. Bad news is by that age (we are talking about mid-late 40s), 90% of their brain cells are dead.

I

woah that is just absurd thanks for cheering me up  on  an otherwise depressing day Crosswind ...

[matroska]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Don't get me started on our education system...the damn pitch is not large enough. It was BRILLIANT during colonial times though....

I have nothing against people getting educated and learning something...do your 16.25 degrees if you need to make yourself perform better. get your M.Sc, MBA, Ph.D, but do it at the right time for the right reasons. 

What sucks in SL is we are still stuck in a rut where we measure peoples' ability by the physical weight of their degree certificates.

 

most people do it for some sort of accomplishment i guess... i have many friends in their late 20s early 30's who do an MSc/MBa for no apparent reason(these guys are working in the Private Sector where MBA won't actually get you far) other than upload 589 photos on Facebook (feeling great - at BMICH) on the Master's graduation and for 1189 people to like it and 945 people to comment 'congrats mchn' 'well done bro' 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by matroska

[gayanath]

On 11/21/2016 at 7:09 PM, Crosswind said:

Yes - in most of the modern private sector companies (especially in the IT industry) and multinational companies

Since the private sector governs by business environment so, its well structured for outcomes (good or bad) rather than personal agendas. - MD or GM will not ask to recruit his neighbors or son or council members daughter having only some paper qualification gained paying some bucks. 

Quote

Not really - in most of the private companies which have been in existence for donkey's years

There are some private institutions (family business, private but previously state owned like SLT, etc) still having people with other agendas, unions, etc. Therefore, there are influences in recruitment process.  

Quote

Hell no - in government sector.

Did you know that in govt sector, many of the graduate posts are filled without even a single interview? (I'm not talking about political appointees here). They are afraid that 'rakiya virahitha upaadhidaareen' will end up not getting the job if they are asked to face an interview so they are appointed solely based on the CV.

 

16 hours ago, matroska said:

yeah that makes sense. I'm working in the IT industry and of course you've got to be a lot more than a guy with 19 BSC's and 17 MBA's you've just got to know your shit AND you have to be someone who can work with people. Plus no one gives a rats ass if you complete an MBA or a PHD or whatever  - I think in Govt MBA is a qualificaiton to get promoted ...  I didn't know there are 0 interview appointments in Govt I thought you go through some basic interview and you get the job  

@Crosswind, @matroska

By the way, I think this is your main concern.

Due to corrupted environment by xxxxxxx politicians and followed by influenced officers, what will happen if recruitment process change from "paper qualification and/or IQ exam" to "set of comprehensive interviews". Results will be: Highest marks - XXXX minister's secretary's son, Second highest - XXXX directors sister's daughter, Third highest marks -  Urban council chairmen's X-wife's brother, etc.

In that scenes, paper qualification and/IQ exam method is still transparent and will select at least somebody who have some numerical skills, understand some thing by reading, could write a official letter, etc. Considering graduates, at least they have primed in university environment several years and having some of exposure whether it relevant or not. They could be better than above sons and daughter having nothing but start to influence his bosses from very first day, not to allocate any task and allow me to behave as I wish because I am XXXXX's son or daughter.

Therefore,

yes, there are lot more negatives in paper based recruitment system in government sector, but we have to be patient until the corrupted government system getting improved in the future (though the date will be a ? mark)

Edited November 22, 2016 by gayanath

[gayanath]

16 hours ago, iRage said:

Don't get me started on our education system...the damn pitch is not large enough. It was BRILLIANT during colonial times though....

 

@iRage

Not even colonial times, IMO nothing wrong in the percent education system (I mean government free education system & syllabus) as well. (yes. I accept that, there are lot more things to improve, but still we have the best education system in Asia and above average comparing rest of the developed nations). Since we have no much industries etc, our system which covers vast span in the syllabus and more academic biased is better than job specific education system. It will facilitate our school leavers/graduates to very open field to battle. They should learn (and they are capable enough - sure) and adjust to the field withing few weeks/months for specific job. Narrowing and deep in to particular field while at school or uni is good only if we are having enough well paid industries for them. 

Then what's went wrong.  

We have no proper system (specially in government sector and some extend in private sector as well) to get the required outcome by employing them. If no one or no system to monitor, who will work?

That's why same Sri Lankan who is working abroad extraordinary, inefficient or reckless here. 

Therefore, I think, the major issue is not in the education system, but in the political system and the Asian culture which still allowing to exist this political system. 

 

 

[Rumesh88]

What exactly wrong with our free education system is that those who come out from schools or universities are not employable. How many private companies in Sri Lanka use Sinhala or Tamil language as their medium of communication? Almost none I suppose. I too agree that the education system was far better during colonial times (in fact, I don't think ordinary people in this country wanted a change in colonial rule except for an elite few who wanted to grab the opportunity and get into power). Best education system Asia huh...?

[Quiet]

well i used to have a chemistry professor who comes with lecture notes she teached some 10 years back. Nothing new or nothing innovative. so how can our education go forward. In other countries people mainly do research and then do teaching. Here no research only teaching with some old notes.

[Crosswind]

6 hours ago, gayanath said:

@iRage

Not even colonial times, IMO nothing wrong in the percent education system (I mean government free education system & syllabus) as well. (yes. I accept that, there are lot more things to improve, but still we have the best education system in Asia and above average comparing rest of the developed nations).

 

 

Sorry to say this but this is absolutely wrong. We don't have the best education system in Asia. This is a lie that has been fed to our brains through continuous muttering a'la Goebbels theory. We have a very sub-par education system compared to most countries. To understand how poor our education system is, you need to study/work and live abroad.

The only example which the proponents of the above theory quote is that 'look how many Sri Lankans are working in good jobs overseas. We have a professor working in NASA. We have one professor who invented the unmanned submarine. We have one professor who invented the landmaster etc'. But we conveniently ignore the fact that for every one Sri Lankan whos doing great in these fields, there are thousands of Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Indians who are doing greater things. And for every one Sri Lankan whos doing well in their fields overseas, there are at least a dozen Sri Lankans who mess-up big time.

Maybe its an international conspiracy that University of Moratuwa (which is part of 'Asia's best education system') has a ranking of 2400-something and University of Colombo has a ranking of around 1950 among universities of the world.

Maybe its another international conspiracy that any Sri Lankan or Sri Lankan-origin scientist has never reached anywhere close to the Nobel Prize, despite hailing from 'Asia's best education system'.

I'm not mocking our education system. All I'm saying is to make things better, we need to understand where we stand. We need to understand the reality. 

[gayanath]

13 minutes ago, Crosswind said:

Sorry to say this but this is absolutely wrong. We don't have the best education system in Asia. This is a lie that has been fed to our brains through continuous muttering a'la Goebbels theory. We have a very sub-par education system compared to most countries. To understand how poor our education system is, you need to study/work and live abroad.

No it's not. Criticizing our education system is a one that has been fed to our brains through continuous muttering a'la Goebbels theory. This will make huge money for several people. 

13 minutes ago, Crosswind said:

The only example which the proponents of the above theory quote is that 'look how many Sri Lankans are working in good jobs overseas. We have a professor working in NASA. We have one professor who invented the unmanned submarine. We have one professor who invented the landmaster etc'. But we conveniently ignore the fact that for every one Sri Lankan whos doing great in these fields, there are thousands of Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Indians who are doing greater things. And for every one Sri Lankan whos doing well in their fields overseas, there are at least a dozen Sri Lankans who mess-up big time.

No point of comparing 100+ million nations with 20+ million nation. Comparing with 20+ mil population vs 1250+ indian population yes, for 1 sri lankan high end guy, there should be 75 high end Indians. Do we have enough GDP comparing with Korea, Japan or China? 

 

13 minutes ago, Crosswind said:

Maybe its an international conspiracy that University of Moratuwa (which is part of 'Asia's best education system') has a ranking of 2400-something and University of Colombo has a ranking of around 1950 among universities of the world.

Maybe its another international conspiracy that any Sri Lankan or Sri Lankan-origin scientist has never reached anywhere close to the Nobel Prize, despite hailing from 'Asia's best education system'.

I'm not mocking our education system. All I'm saying is to make things better, we need to understand where we stand. We need to understand the reality. 

You took only a part of my words. The most important part is next. 

Who will fund for our universities for researches. Do our students or teachers have enough money for self funded researches?. Just an example, (though it's not just a research) Moratuwa students participated for formula completion thanks to D*MO funds. Otherwise, where were they?.  

That's why I told, we have no proper system to take the maximum output required from them. It's true for employability as well as academia like researches, technical papers, patents, uni-industry relationships, etc. as well. 

Since you are a lecture in several unis's you should know how rankings are done. The criteria is not just the syllabus or quality of students and teachers, facilities etc. It includes no of research papers published, researches done and applied for real world, alumni of students, how many graduates are holding top positions in the world and lot more things.  In that scenario, colombo in 1900+ and Moratuwa in 2000+ is lot more than well funded ABCD or PQRS in UK or USA in 100+. The only + point we had is the quality of our students and quality of teachers. (fortunately, due to the competition, our universities have very best students in the country and their performance average is higher than 75% out of 100%. it's our main asset. That's why even we could survive in 2000+ with this lower investment by the government for our education system. If we recruit average students, we should invest three-four times of our current annual education budget for even same rank) 

This is the reality, and not just no our universities at 100 + or - rank so our education system is not good. 

Please always be broader viewer than narrower. 

 

[gayanath]

1 hour ago, Crosswind said:

Sorry to say this but this is absolutely wrong. We don't have the best education system in Asia. This is a lie that has been fed to our brains through continuous muttering a'la Goebbels theory. We have a very sub-par education system compared to most countries. To understand how poor our education system is, you need to study/work and live abroad.

No it's not. Criticizing our education system is a one that has been fed to our brains through continuous muttering a'la Goebbels theory. This will make huge money for several people. 

Quote

The only example which the proponents of the above theory quote is that 'look how many Sri Lankans are working in good jobs overseas. We have a professor working in NASA. We have one professor who invented the unmanned submarine. We have one professor who invented the landmaster etc'. But we conveniently ignore the fact that for every one Sri Lankan whos doing great in these fields, there are thousands of Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Indians who are doing greater things. And for every one Sri Lankan whos doing well in their fields overseas, there are at least a dozen Sri Lankans who mess-up big time.

No point of comparing 100+ million nations with 20+ million nation. Comparing with 20+ mil population vs 1250+ indian population yes, for 1 sri lankan high end guy, there should be 75 high end Indians. Do we have enough GDP comparing with Korea, Japan or China? 

 

Quote

Maybe its an international conspiracy that University of Moratuwa (which is part of 'Asia's best education system') has a ranking of 2400-something and University of Colombo has a ranking of around 1950 among universities of the world.

Maybe its another international conspiracy that any Sri Lankan or Sri Lankan-origin scientist has never reached anywhere close to the Nobel Prize, despite hailing from 'Asia's best education system'.

I'm not mocking our education system. All I'm saying is to make things better, we need to understand where we stand. We need to understand the reality. 

You took only a part of my words. The most important part is next. 

Who will fund for our universities for researches. Do our students or teachers have enough money for self funded researches?. Just an example, (though it's not just a research) Moratuwa students participated for formula completion thanks to D*MO funds. Otherwise, where were they?.  

That's why I told, we have no proper system to take the maximum output required from them. It's true for employability as well as academia like researches, technical papers, patents, uni-industry relationships, etc. as well. 

Since you are a lecture in several unis's you should know how rankings are done. The criteria is not just the syllabus or quality of students and teachers, facilities etc. It includes no of research papers published, researches done and applied for real world, alumni of students, how many graduates are holding top positions in the world and lot more things.  In that scenario, colombo in 1900+ and Moratuwa in 2000+ is lot more than well funded ABCD or PQRS in UK or USA in 100+. The only + point we had is the quality of our students and quality of teachers. (fortunately, due to the competition, our universities have very best students in the country and their performance average is higher than 75% out of 100%. it's our main asset. That's why even we could survive in 2000+ with this lower investment by the government for our education system. If we recruit average students, we should invest three-four times of our current annual education budget for even same rank) 

This is the reality, and not just no our universities at 100 + or - rank so our education system is not good. 

Please, always be broader viewer than narrower. 

 

[gayanath]

3 hours ago, Rumesh88 said:

What exactly wrong with our free education system is that those who come out from schools or universities are not employable. How many private companies in Sri Lanka use Sinhala or Tamil language as their medium of communication? Almost none I suppose. I too agree that the education system was far better during colonial times (in fact, I don't think ordinary people in this country wanted a change in colonial rule except for an elite few who wanted to grab the opportunity and get into power). Best education system Asia huh...?

You use the word free education system. Do a guy from paid education system (school or universities) be employable than a guy from free education? 

No its not. And not required as well. There are only few courses which prepared people for direct employment. Those are only Engineering, MBBS, NDT, HNDE, Univotech cources, NAITA (technical courses) and few others. Do not expect just an employable person from basic general degree holder or school leavers after A/L or O/L.

Its not rational to blame the courses which not designed for job oriented. (just like our car buying habit - buying a vehicle designed for different purpose and using for different purpose). The perspective is different.

BTW, Its true that, we (SL) need more job oriented degree, diplomas, etc to cater our industrial demand. But it should not mean we have to abolish other general degree programs. 

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by gayanath

[Rumesh88]

5 minutes ago, gayanath said:

You use the word free education system. Do a guy from paid education system (school or universities) be employable than a guy from free education? 

Unfortunately YES. That's the practical reality in most industrial sectors. 

[gayanath]

9 minutes ago, Rumesh88 said:

Unfortunately YES. That's the practical reality in most industrial sectors. 

Please give few examples with comparison of which free vs which paid and which industry. 

[Rumesh88]

32 minutes ago, gayanath said:

Please give few examples with comparison of which free vs which paid and which industry. 

Top examples are marketing, merchandising and corporate communication sectors in any industry. Do you know when it comes to recruitment, applicants with a fine educational background from free education fall far behind those with an average qualifications from some unheard of international schools simply because of their language capability? Remember private sector expects new recruits to work from day one.  They don't worry whether you had a free education or not. Also do not narrow your scope down to graduates and the top rung of the system. It is others who make up the greater portion.