Suzuki baleno

[Iron man]

Can someone explain about Suzuki baleno? 

I'm trying to import one 1000cc. But I have some questions.

1. What is the best type to import? (GT, GLX)

2. Can we find spare parts?

3. What would be the 2nd market?

4. What are the draw backs of the vehicle? (Pickup, ground clearance etc)

Can someone explain about this?

[dilshant80]

you do know it's manufactured in India and exported to Japan right?

[Iron man]

19 hours ago, dilshant80 said:

you do know it's manufactured in India and exported to Japan right?

Yes, I know. But I think features and safety of the vehicle is far better than usual Indian vehicles.

[iRage]

27 minutes ago, Iron man said:

Yes, I know. But I think features and safety of the vehicle is far better than usual Indian vehicles.

Yes it is...Suzuki themselves have claimed that there is no difference in build quality between the different market models. Difference seems to be mainly emissions related stuff.

[Iron man]

So plz could you help me with my questions?I'm thinking of buying one. Is that worth?

[dilshant80]

personally I would not go for a Baleno or Vitz since I am a bit concerned about the power to weight ratio and fuel economy. have driven a 1000cc Vitz which is very sluggish. Also bit wary of these new 1000cc turbo aka booster-jet engines of Suzuki. Don't know how well they will fare in the long run. My decision was to go for a Wagon R/Stingray

Edited December 21, 2017 by dilshant80

[trish_auto]

I think we have discussed about this car before. In fact both the JDM and Indian models of Baleno are fully assembled in India. 

Refer the photoes here, http://kakaku.com/kuruma/used/item/17456889/

  On 12/2/2017 at 8:39 PM, trish_auto said:

Do Suzuki supplies Indian manufactured cars to JDM ?? 

http://kakaku.com/kuruma/used/item/17456889/

 

Yes. The Baleno is fully assembled in India. The consensus seems to be that build quality wise its as good as the Japanese built models but lacks a bit of refinement. E.g. everything is solidly put together but things like thickness ans faps of stitchibg on the seats, gaps  between interior panels not snuggly fit, etc as in the Japanese models.

[trish_auto]

Also read; 

http://autolanka.com/forums/topic/19112-2018-budget-vehicle-import-duty/?do=findComment&comment=306405

[trish_auto]

42 minutes ago, dilshant80 said:

personally I would not go for a Baleno or Vitz since I am a bit concerned about the power to weight ratio and fuel economy. have driven a 1000cc Vitz which is very sluggish. Also bit wary of these new 1000cc turbo aka booster-jet engines of Suzuki. Don't know how well they will fare in the long run. My decision was to go for a Wagon R/Stingray

Well,  you don't need to worry about booster jet engine. Idea of this concept is to give extra power for 1.0 L engine, as more power is demanded from engine. Also going from 4 pod to 3 pod saves weight of the engine, size of the engine and reduces loss of energy due to friction.  In future models they will incorporate mild hybrid option too.  This car is powered by K10c engine.  K10 series engines are very reliable and it hardly let you down (as long as you take care it)

I have seen quite number of Balenos around Colombo and also few adds.  As iRage mentioned above, overall built quality is not up to the Japanese manufactured. In fact Wagon R JDM has a better built quality than Baleno.  

Well everyone knows, who is leading and who is lagging in the second hand market 

One of my concerns is the ground clearance of  JDM version. Indian market model has a quite descent ground clearance.  Other concern is fuel economy.  You can't get the figures as manufactures are claiming in heavy traffics.  Generally small non-hybrid engines (1.0 L-0.6 L) are less fuel efficient in heavy traffics - need a higher rpm to generate an equivalent torque as of 1.2 L or above.

Attractive points are , price (Rs. 3.6 M- 1.0 L version) , rear seat legroom and space, boot space. 

See the specs below

Edited December 21, 2017 by trish_auto

[dilshant80]

4 minutes ago, trish_auto said:

Well,  you don't need to worry about booster jet engine. Idea of this concept is to give extra power for 1.0 L engine, as more power is demanded from engine. Also going for 4 pod to 3 pod saves weight of the engine, size of the engine and loss of energy due to friction.  In future models they will incorporate mild hybrid option too.  This car is powered by K10c engine.  K10 series engines are very reliable and it hardly let you down (as long as you take care it)

I have seen quite number of Balenos around Colombo and also few adds.  As iRage mentioned above, overall built quality is not up to the Japanese manufactured. In fact Wagon R JDM has a better built quality than Baleno.  

Well everyone knows, who is leading and who is lagging in the second hand market 

One of my concerns is the ground clearance of  JDM version. Indian market model has a quite descent ground clearance.  Other concern is fuel economy.  You can't get the figures as manufactures are claiming in heavy traffics.  Generally small non-hybrid engines (1.0 L-0.6 L) are less fuel efficient in heavy traffics - need a higher rpm to generate an equivalent torque as of 1.2 L or above.

Attractive points are , price (Rs. 3.6 M- 1.0 L version) , rear seat legroom and space, boot space. 

See the specs below

The Baleno was a top contender for me, until I found out it was assembled in India

[iRage]

2 hours ago, trish_auto said:

One of my concerns is the ground clearance of  JDM version. Indian market model has a quite descent ground clearance.  Other concern is fuel economy.  You can't get the figures as manufactures are claiming in heavy traffics.  Generally small non-hybrid engines (1.0 L-0.6 L) are less fuel efficient in heavy traffics - need a higher rpm to generate an equivalent torque as of 1.2 L or above.

Attractive points are , price (Rs. 3.6 M- 1.0 L version) , rear seat legroom and space, boot space. 

See the specs below

 

 

Highly arguable/debatable....all of the kei cars I have driven and the other kei cars, have there max torque delivered way down in the rev range and it is quite narrow. So you really don't have to rev it that much. In fact you have to rev the hell out of it on highways. The turbo charged ones have a bit more torque and a wider torque band. In Japan kei cars actually do get gas mileage as good as Hybrids. 

Manufacturer's fuel figures are JC08 figures which is pretty much a 50:50 split between city traffic driving and highway driving with room for a 30% variance. At the end of the day these figures are nothing but numbers when it comes to Colombo traffic these days. 

[Iron man]

13 hours ago, dilshant80 said:

personally I would not go for a Baleno or Vitz since I am a bit concerned about the power to weight ratio and fuel economy. have driven a 1000cc Vitz which is very sluggish. Also bit wary of these new 1000cc turbo aka booster-jet engines of Suzuki. Don't know how well they will fare in the long run. My decision was to go for a Wagon R/Stingray

So do you think pickup of Stringray is better than vitz or baleno?

[dilshant80]

21 minutes ago, Iron man said:

So do you think pickup of Stringray is better than vitz or baleno?

No need to take my word for it. Go for a test drive on all three and you can decide for your self

[dilshant80]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Highly arguable/debatable....all of the kei cars I have driven and the other kei cars, have there max torque delivered way down in the rev range and it is quite narrow. So you really don't have to rev it that much. In fact you have to rev the hell out of it on highways. The turbo charged ones have a bit more torque and a wider torque band. In Japan kei cars actually do get gas mileage as good as Hybrids. 

Manufacturer's fuel figures are JC08 figures which is pretty much a 50:50 split between city traffic driving and highway driving with room for a 30% variance. At the end of the day these figures are nothing but numbers when it comes to Colombo traffic these days. 

Agree. From the get go, kei cars are quick and nippy but that quickness fades away pretty quickly.

[Iron man]

11 hours ago, dilshant80 said:

No need to take my word for it. Go for a test drive on all three and you can decide for your self

Thanks for the support?  don't you think stringray turbo is better?

[trish_auto]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Highly arguable/debatable....all of the kei cars I have driven and the other kei cars, have there max torque delivered way down in the rev range and it is quite narrow. So you really don't have to rev it that much. In fact you have to rev the hell out of it on highways. The turbo charged ones have a bit more torque and a wider torque band. In Japan kei cars actually do get gas mileage as good as Hybrids. 

Manufacturer's fuel figures are JC08 figures which is pretty much a 50:50 split between city traffic driving and highway driving with room for a 30% variance. At the end of the day these figures are nothing but numbers when it comes to Colombo traffic these days. 

Well..it depends on driving habits as well.  to get an acceleration equivalent to that of larger engine needs more rpm. In Colombo traffic you can't drag too long to match the speed of others.

Also it depends on the wheel diameter. Most of the kei users have a trend of exaggerating diameters than factory specified.

50:50 is a huge margin .  Again it depends on many factors. One of my key experience is the quality of the fuel and air. Specially the air quality in Colombo is very poor ; high carbon and SPM blocking the filters very fast.

[dilshant80]

Thanks for the support?  don't you think stringray turbo is better?

Personally I wouldn't go for the turbo. Reason is, when it comes to second hand market, people have this notion that turbo does less on fuel efficiency.

[iRage]

1 hour ago, trish_auto said:

Well..it depends on driving habits as well.  to get an acceleration equivalent to that of larger engine needs more rpm. In Colombo traffic you can't drag too long to match the speed of others.

Also it depends on the wheel diameter. Most of the kei users have a trend of exaggerating diameters than factory specified.

50:50 is a huge margin .  Again it depends on many factors. One of my key experience is the quality of the fuel and air. Specially the air quality in Colombo is very poor ; high carbon and SPM blocking the filters very fast.

....like I said...a kei car's torque delivery is quite different from a larger engine car and you really don't need to rev it that much to accelerate it like you say you need to. Peak torque is delivered way down in the rev range so from a stand still (like in a traffic jam) the kei cars actually do quite well. The issue with the kei engines is that there isn't much usable torque in the mid and upper ranges. True...you won't get anywhere close to the 0-50 kmph or 0-100kmph acceleration times of a larger engine car unless you step on it like you are choking the life out of a water buffalo however, acceleration to more modest "city" limits are pretty good without having to break a sweat. So the short quick accelerations are not as bad as you seem to make it out to be. Its the long fast ones that suck (other things that suck..climbing hills ! and having people who are larger than the average Japanese person  oh..and luggage larger than 3.5 grocery bags).

Edited December 21, 2017 by iRage

[trish_auto]

"there isn't much usable torque in the mid and upper ranges." , meaning  ?

[trish_auto]

10 hours ago, iRage said:

....like I said...a kei car's torque delivery is quite different from a larger engine car and you really don't need to rev it that much to accelerate it like you say you need to. Peak torque is delivered way down in the rev range so from a stand still (like in a traffic jam) the kei cars actually do quite well. The issue with the kei engines is that there isn't much usable torque in the mid and upper ranges. True...you won't get anywhere close to the 0-50 kmph or 0-100kmph acceleration times of a larger engine car unless you step on it like you are choking the life out of a water buffalo however, acceleration to more modest "city" limits are pretty good without having to break a sweat. So the short quick accelerations are not as bad as you seem to make it out to be. Its the long fast ones that suck (other things that suck..climbing hills ! and having people who are larger than the average Japanese person  oh..and luggage larger than 3.5 grocery bags).

Yes it can be the case on kei models. In fact most of my experiences are based on  three pod non-kei cars (engines of 0.8 L -1.0 L). Because most of these small three cylinder engines are behaving quite differently when it comes from manual to auto transmission. 

Japanse kei cars are delivering much lower torque.  According to Suzuki wagon R FZ ;

Maximum output (kW / rpm) net		38 / 6,500
Maximum torque (N · m / rpm) net		60 / 4,000

this power is delivered through a CVT gear box. 

My experience with kei cars are; 

1. They are poor on accelerating from stand still in hills with full load on it. 

2. Reversing against a steep slope feel like engine going to blow away.

This could be the reason why they have incorporated electric motor assist in accelerations and turbo chargers in upcoming models.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by trish_auto

[iRage]

2 hours ago, trish_auto said:

Yes it can be the case on kei models. In fact most of my experiences are based on  three pod non-kei cars (engines of 0.8 L -1.0 L). Because most of these small three cylinder engines are behaving quite differently when it comes from manual to auto transmission. 

Japanse kei cars are delivering much lower torque.  According to Suzuki wagon R FZ ;

Maximum output (kW / rpm) net		38 / 6,500
Maximum torque (N · m / rpm) net		60 / 4,000

this power is delivered through a CVT gear box. 

My experience with kei cars are; 

1. They are poor on accelerating from stand still in hills with full load on it. 

2. Reversing against a steep slope feel like engine going to blow away.

This could be the reason why they have incorporated electric motor assist in accelerations and turbo chargers in upcoming models.

 

 

Yes....the max torque and hp figures are quite low in the kei cars...for it to be a kei car it has to be 660cc or less with a maximum of 64hp. Even with the Wagon R FZ...the maximum torque is delivered at 4000rpm (if it actually is 4000rpm then that is a good thing..most have power/torque bands puff out earlier)...but in general if you look at a torque curve of a kei car itself you will see that the curve is relatively steep in building up to that. So yeah....the use of turbo chargers have been a good thing. The hybrid motor n the other hand was a bit of a miss in the previous iterations of Suzuki's system. With the previous system; they seemed to have toned down the engine's power/torque delivery with the intent of that being compensated by the electric motor. However, the amount the electric motor could assist was quite small so the car was really really slow. It didn't have the motor to power it because the battery drained out and the engine was not enough because it was toned down for the electric motor.

The introduction of CVT was a bit of a killer for kei cars. The sportier versions of these kei cars came with manual mode CVTs which helped a bit. To be honest Suzuki introducing AGS in their kei cars could be a plus point.

As I said before...kei cars are good little city run abouts...but put it out on a highway or load it with people or go up a hill with anything more than a small little driver....it is as quick as a turtle doing a 100m sprint at the animal Olympics. But then kei cars were never meant to be fast cars. In SL we pay so so so much money for our cars that we expect them to do everything... 

Any idea why no one wants to bring down Honda kei cars...they are a lot better in refinement when it comes to interior and is a bit more fun than the Suzukis and the Daihatsus...

[trish_auto]

4 minutes ago, iRage said:

Yes....the max torque and hp figures are quite low in the kei cars...for it to be a kei car it has to be 660cc or less with a maximum of 64hp. Even with the Wagon R FZ...the maximum torque is delivered at 4000rpm (if it actually is 4000rpm then that is a good thing..most have power/torque bands puff out earlier)...but in general if you look at a torque curve of a kei car itself you will see that the curve is relatively steep in building up to that. So yeah....the use of turbo chargers have been a good thing. The hybrid motor n the other hand was a bit of a miss in the previous iterations of Suzuki's system. With the previous system; they seemed to have toned down the engine's power/torque delivery with the intent of that being compensated by the electric motor. However, the amount the electric motor could assist was quite small so the car was really really slow. It didn't have the motor to power it because the battery drained out and the engine was not enough because it was toned down for the electric motor.

The introduction of CVT was a bit of a killer for kei cars. The sportier versions of these kei cars came with manual mode CVTs which helped a bit. To be honest Suzuki introducing AGS in their kei cars could be a plus point.

As I said before...kei cars are good little city run abouts...but put it out on a highway or load it with people or go up a hill with anything more than a small little driver....it is as quick as a turtle doing a 100m sprint at the animal Olympics. But then kei cars were never meant to be fast cars. In SL we pay so so so much money for our cars that we expect them to do everything... 

Any idea why no one wants to bring down Honda kei cars...they are a lot better in refinement when it comes to interior and is a bit more fun than the Suzukis and the Daihatsus...

One further clarification, there are three hybrid options (Full Hybrid, Mild Hybrid and ene-charge) in Suzukis. Full hybrid option is above 1.2 L engines only .  Why they can't have the same system in kei models ?

[iRage]

4 minutes ago, trish_auto said:

One further clarification, there are three hybrid options (Full Hybrid, Mild Hybrid and ene-charge) in Suzukis. Full hybrid option is above 1.2 L engines only .  Why they can't have the same system in kei models ?

It is the trade offs you have to make. 

Off the bat you could imagine that for a kei car, with small power figures, it might not be completely sensible to have large batteries and the extra weight of a full hybrid system for the amount of additional power and the real savings you would gain. For larger cars, having a small battery and a motor to suit the small output from the batteries (like in the s-enecharge) might not be enough to justify the additional cost and the real impact it would have. Its probably one of the main reasons other manufactures have not been so quick to put Hybrid systems into their kei cars (with all the R&D they put in to it you wold have expected Toyota to jump in to it head first and put it in Daihatsus). 

When they first introduced ene-charge to the Swift (out going model) Suzuki never claimed it to be a Hybrid system. They just called it a system to make idle stop/start and engine operation more efficient. It is only with S-ENECHARGE that the word Hybrid entered in to the mix and that too is phasing out of Suzuki's vocabulary as their Mild Hybrid system gets rolled out.

But I believe with Suzuki's newer hybrid systems they are able to make things a bit more uniform.

[trish_auto]

3 hours ago, iRage said:

It is the trade offs you have to make. 

Off the bat you could imagine that for a kei car, with small power figures, it might not be completely sensible to have large batteries and the extra weight of a full hybrid system for the amount of additional power and the real savings you would gain. For larger cars, having a small battery and a motor to suit the small output from the batteries (like in the s-enecharge) might not be enough to justify the additional cost and the real impact it would have. Its probably one of the main reasons other manufactures have not been so quick to put Hybrid systems into their kei cars (with all the R&D they put in to it you wold have expected Toyota to jump in to it head first and put it in Daihatsus). 

When they first introduced ene-charge to the Swift (out going model) Suzuki never claimed it to be a Hybrid system. They just called it a system to make idle stop/start and engine operation more efficient. It is only with S-ENECHARGE that the word Hybrid entered in to the mix and that too is phasing out of Suzuki's vocabulary as their Mild Hybrid system gets rolled out.

But I believe with Suzuki's newer hybrid systems they are able to make things a bit more uniform.

Thanks. Any idea of why Toyota not coming up with turbo chargers for their 1.0 L versions.   Toyota is not interested on putting hybrid systems on small cars  due to additional weight to be carried by the batteries and hybrid motor (as you mentioned above).  Also I see a quite difference in the backup technologies among different brands( Li Iron save lot of weight compared to Ni MH )

[iRage]

2 hours ago, trish_auto said:

Thanks. Any idea of why Toyota not coming up with turbo chargers for their 1.0 L versions.   Toyota is not interested on putting hybrid systems on small cars  due to additional weight to be carried by the batteries and hybrid motor (as you mentioned above).  Also I see a quite difference in the backup technologies among different brands( Li Iron save lot of weight compared to Ni MH )

I believe they were working on the 1.0L turbo...who knows...I guess it is a matter of priorities. I think most are starting use Lithium Ion batteries..fourth gen of Toyota/Lexus HSD is supposed to be powered with Li-Ion batteries isn't it ?