Honda FIT GE6 Engine Knock and Hesitation

[Shalin]

I have been using a Honda FIT GE6 2009 Petrol Car for several years now and its almost 94,000 Kms on the odometer.

Few months back car starts to knock (unsure this is the right term to describe the issue) starting at 1500 and goes away if I push the accelerator down or up a bit. If I keep the paddle in 1500 RPM the knock keeps continuing. Most of the time it starts knocking 1500 RPM and around 40Km/h but on highway or freeways happens on 70-80Km/h. Also this is quite noticeable as its shaken the whole car.

This issue starts only after engine is getting hot. When I starts the car in the morning it runs very smooth but after driving around 10-15 minutes above symptoms starts. And also after a long trip like 4-5 hours of continuous driving car really hesitates to drive up hill. If I push the accelerator down, engine starts rev up without moving forward and after 2-3 seconds it starts moving smoothly.   

First thought this is a gearbox issue and changed CVT as well as added CVT conditioner from BG. Nothing changed and then did a full engine tune up (cleaning complete fuel system including petrol pump). Finally cleaned and replaced the EGR valve with a reconditioned one but no luck so I fixed my original EGR back. No error codes or no CEL. Also the engine mounts are in good condition.

I have checked my plugs and injectors from two mechanics and both mentioned no need of changing them.

If you guys can please share your thoughts here, that would be really helpful.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Shalin

[NeroX]

Same advice elsewhere. Try switching to 95 octane might help. Fuel additives or IOC fuel might be better in this regard. Helps with any carbon deposits you may have. The higher octane fuel requires higher compression ratio hence might avoid premature ignition. You could also try doing an italian tuneup (doing a bit of aggressive driving/higher rpm - apparently it takes off carbon deposits). But this method is not recommended as you face a risk of blowing your head gaskets if its something else. Helps if you've diagnosed all possible faulty parts in the ignition system.

 

[MV-5]

On 3/14/2018 at 5:27 PM, Shalin said:

If I push the accelerator down, engine starts rev up without moving forward and after 2-3 seconds it starts moving smoothly.   

This can not be due to a engine misfire or knock. most probably(my guess is definitely) this is a gearbox related issue.

just changing CVTF will not solve all the problems (but that should be the first thing to do).

one possibility is CVT control module might be malfunctioning  for a particular combination of input (ex: RPM close to 1500).

(technically CVT does not have infinite number of gear ratios, so it is also discrete. then system might be trying to shift here and there when it is malfunctioning)

[Shalin]

On 3/15/2018 at 12:31 PM, NeroX said:

Same advice elsewhere. Try switching to 95 octane might help. Fuel additives or IOC fuel might be better in this regard. Helps with any carbon deposits you may have. The higher octane fuel requires higher compression ratio hence might avoid premature ignition. You could also try doing an italian tuneup (doing a bit of aggressive driving/higher rpm - apparently it takes off carbon deposits). But this method is not recommended as you face a risk of blowing your head gaskets if its something else. Helps if you've diagnosed all possible faulty parts in the ignition system.

 

Thanks NeroX for your helpful insight.

Tried 95 Oct fuel, fuel additives and aggressive driving but no luck. Im planing to replace my plugs (currently NGK iridium) and then check my coil pack. Some people suggest that one or more coil packs could be the issue so plan is to check them one by one. Any thing else that you see appropriate ?

16 hours ago, MV-5 said:

This can not be due to a engine misfire or knock. most probably(my guess is definitely) this is a gearbox related issue.

just changing CVTF will not solve all the problems (but that should be the first thing to do).

one possibility is CVT control module might be malfunctioning  for a particular combination of input (ex: RPM close to 1500).

(technically CVT does not have infinite number of gear ratios, so it is also discrete. then system might be trying to shift here and there when it is malfunctioning)

Thanks MV-5. That makes sense.

This ("2-3 seconds" delay) is happened only when engine is hot. In particular after 4-5 hours of continues driving and then break (while engine running, gear is in D) and trying to go 45 degree uphill (even tried putting the gear into R) but engine hesitates to move the car for 2-3 seconds and no issue after. Its really hard to describe the exact symptoms here though but its like even I press the accelerator flat down in gear D engine starts rev up.... rev down.... rev up... rev down.... and then starts moving (after 2-3 seconds).

So as you suggest, if its a CVT control module malfunction then how we identified and fix this? (i.e by going to agents ?)

Edited March 16, 2018 by Shalin

[NeroX]

The gearbox could be a potential issue. Get it checked as MV-5 says. Try the following troubleshooting guide. It refers to some defects that can happen without raising DTC codes.

http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/M2/SAA2EM2E15100000000HBAT00.HTML

Nws better get the car checked at the agents. They have the standard HDS/HIM system which can access most systems & read the majority of engine parameters live. Take it to them after stressing the car a bit so that the problem repeats in front of the technician. They should be able to better diagnose with their tools.

If the Gearbox checks out refer to the following guide to diagnose the fuel/ignition system further 

http://hondafitjazzge6ge8.automotive-manuals.com/manuals/ZOOM000000000001792.html

Hope you solve your problem!

[Shalin]

Finally I managed to solve my issue and it was due to spark plugs and plug coils. I have replaced all 4 spark plugs with NGK iridium and it turns out that most of the plug coils are also covered with carbon deposits (don't know "carbon deposits" is the correct term). 

My regular mechanic cleaned them with carburetor cleaner and advised me to replace them soon because most of them are getting weak. 

After replacing plugs and cleaning out coil pack, issue completely vanished and feels like a new car. Pulling power and fuel economy seems much better almost after 800Kms journey

However before complete the above procedure I have taken my car to the agents (Stafford - Boralasgamuwa) and must say that their service is quite disappointing.

After getting details about the issue one of the technicians highly suggest that it could be a gear box issue (even before a test drive) and not related to the ignition system. Luckily I got another technician and he sounds more fair than the first one and we went on a test drive with OBD 2 scanner plugged in. They managed to replicate the issue and cam back to the station and suggest me to do a engine tuneup and injector replacement. Weird thing  here is they said it could hardly be the plugs and coils causing this issue and we would be able to make sure after the tuneup and injector replacement. Estimated cost for the total job is quite high so I declined and they have found out one of my rear wheels has a break bind and fixed it (and mentioned that perhaps this could be the cause for engine hesitation).

After return I went on a test drive with my OBD 2 scanner plugged in and the results turns out that there is a drop on all graphs when the engine reached 1500 RPM and started knocking. Then I have contacted a friend in D*MO and he advised me to replace plugs.

So for Auto Lanka readers few advises if you own a Honda,

1. In my experience Stafford doesn't know or they simply don't care to find out the real issue but trying to diagnosis issues by replacing parts one by one. 

2. Some popular names (such as Honda U*ul Malabe) also wont help as I feel that they should have identify my issue because that's the first place I went for opinion and did a full engine tune up. They didn't mention anything about bad plugs and didn't check the plug coils at all...!

Thank you @NeroX and @MV-5 for helping me, really appreciate your advises.

[matroska]

24 minutes ago, Shalin said:

In my experience Stafford doesn't know or they simply don't care

well yeah this does sound a bit like Stafford   solution by elimination 

[Twin Turbo]

Change your fuel station , 

[ramishkad]

What was the total mileage of the car when you changed the spark plugs?
If was considerably less than 100000km you might want to check what caused the premature wear.

As for Stafford, when I go to them I usually diagnose and find out the issue myself and only direct them to do the specific repair / replacement. Otherwise in my experience they sometime resort to trial and error which can be a waste of money and time.

[Shalin]

On 4/25/2018 at 12:05 PM, ramishkad said:

What was the total mileage of the car when you changed the spark plugs?
If was considerably less than 100000km you might want to check what caused the premature wear.

As for Stafford, when I go to them I usually diagnose and find out the issue myself and only direct them to do the specific repair / replacement. Otherwise in my experience they sometime resort to trial and error which can be a waste of money and time.

@ramishkad Plugs changed around 96000 Kms. Wondering Iridium plugs needs changing every 80000 Kms as per most of the mechanics (some of them said in every 40000Kms ) ?

But I saw online somewhere that those plugs could be use over 100000Kms.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Shalin

[knad77]

On 4/24/2018 at 3:01 PM, Shalin said:

Finally I managed to solve my issue and it was due to spark plugs and plug coils. I have replaced all 4 spark plugs with NGK iridium and it turns out that most of the plug coils are also covered with carbon deposits (don't know "carbon deposits" is the correct term). 

My regular mechanic cleaned them with carburetor cleaner and advised me to replace them soon because most of them are getting weak. 

After replacing plugs and cleaning out coil pack, issue completely vanished and feels like a new car. Pulling power and fuel economy seems much better almost after 800Kms journey

However before complete the above procedure I have taken my car to the agents (Stafford - Boralasgamuwa) and must say that their service is quite disappointing.

After getting details about the issue one of the technicians highly suggest that it could be a gear box issue (even before a test drive) and not related to the ignition system. Luckily I got another technician and he sounds more fair than the first one and we went on a test drive with OBD 2 scanner plugged in. They managed to replicate the issue and cam back to the station and suggest me to do a engine tuneup and injector replacement. Weird thing  here is they said it could hardly be the plugs and coils causing this issue and we would be able to make sure after the tuneup and injector replacement. Estimated cost for the total job is quite high so I declined and they have found out one of my rear wheels has a break bind and fixed it (and mentioned that perhaps this could be the cause for engine hesitation).

After return I went on a test drive with my OBD 2 scanner plugged in and the results turns out that there is a drop on all graphs when the engine reached 1500 RPM and started knocking. Then I have contacted a friend in D*MO and he advised me to replace plugs.

So for Auto Lanka readers few advises if you own a Honda,

1. In my experience Stafford doesn't know or they simply don't care to find out the real issue but trying to diagnosis issues by replacing parts one by one. 

2. Some popular names (such as Honda U*ul Malabe) also wont help as I feel that they should have identify my issue because that's the first place I went for opinion and did a full engine tune up. They didn't mention anything about bad plugs and didn't check the plug coils at all...!

Thank you @NeroX and @MV-5 for helping me, really appreciate your advises.

Hi I have same issue in my Fit Shuttle. Let me know from where to get check it and get replace plugs and coils. Is it 4 plugs or 8 plugs?. When I show it to my reguler service center they told my that engine got bad and need heavy repair. Thanks to you guys I know what is the problem now. Same like yorus at 1000RPM  knock is happening

[Shalin]

On 6/24/2018 at 9:52 AM, knad77 said:

Hi I have same issue in my Fit Shuttle. Let me know from where to get check it and get replace plugs and coils. Is it 4 plugs or 8 plugs?. When I show it to my reguler service center they told my that engine got bad and need heavy repair. Thanks to you guys I know what is the problem now. Same like yorus at 1000RPM  knock is happening

I have checked and changed my plugs from Cool Zone Auto Mart, Thalawathugoda. This is the place where I go for regular maintenance and highly recommended. I will PM you contact details.