A Decent German Diesel

[madmax]

When the E46 3 Series came out, Topgear raced both the base model petrol and diesel versions head-to-head on their track. The diesel beat the petrol one.

[Devinda_Z]

E46 320d's are brilliant! that point is uncontestable

and GTam , i'm in full agreement with what you say of diesels - the delivery curve on diesels makes them far more practical in normal driving scenarios..

about the figure,well i jus skimmed through carfolio and chcked the B5 1.8T & 1.9 Tdi and thats what i came up with - to be honest, i way rather suprised about the figure myself...wonder if they got it wrong

But the bottom line and i'm sure we can all agree with this - the europeans really know how to make good diesels! be it the Audi Tdi's, VW V10's , Alfa JTD's or BMW & MB's CRD's - they all w-o-r-k

[Pericles]

When the E46 3 Series came out, Topgear raced both the base model petrol and diesel versions head-to-head on their track. The diesel beat the petrol one.

This was two races right? They swapped and went round again. Tiff won both over VBH. Scores diesel one and petrol one. But it was hella close both times.

[nilakicha]

Im glad to hear that ive not made a bad choice. For a moment there, just after purchasing, i started getting second thoughts, whether I jumped into this too quick, without considering maintenance and blahblah and if if i shud've done more research. Well research came out pretty good, the A4 1.9tdi's supposedly good on fuel and power. Like i said yet to see it, but contrary to my second thoughts, and from what ive seen and heard before bout diesels, im quite happy, and waiting to get my hands on the car and take it out of colombo for a proper test.

Well devinda - ur right bout the prices, this was 2.6m. I checked around and the range was bizarre to say the least, this had done 58k km's ( and i do mean km's not miles), and at that price, one dude asked for 3.6 for one that had done 89k km's, meaning a tad close to a overhaul - no thank you. E46 on the other hand - yikes is the word. Hell one dude was asking for 4.5 - and another for 5 mill for 65- number plate 100k++ mileage 320D's. The risk of overhaul is one thing and asking for that price for that - exorbitant, come on even for a beamer.

Anyways, bottom line - im happy I got my hands on a decent - or shud I say a surprisingly fun cute A4, for a bargain price. Now its just the driving test that awaits, and ill keep ull posted on the figures - power, fuel and handling.

[Pericles]

Im glad to hear that ive not made a bad choice. For a moment there, just after purchasing, i started getting second thoughts, whether I jumped into this too quick, without considering maintenance and blahblah and if if i shud've done more research. Well research came out pretty good, the A4 1.9tdi's supposedly good on fuel and power. Like i said yet to see it, but contrary to my second thoughts, and from what ive seen and heard before bout diesels, im quite happy, and waiting to get my hands on the car and take it out of colombo for a proper test.

Well devinda - ur right bout the prices, this was 2.6m. I checked around and the range was bizarre to say the least, this had done 58k km's ( and i do mean km's not miles), and at that price, one dude asked for 3.6 for one that had done 89k km's, meaning a tad close to a overhaul - no thank you. E46 on the other hand - yikes is the word. Hell one dude was asking for 4.5 - and another for 5 mill for 65- number plate 100k++ mileage 320D's. The risk of overhaul is one thing and asking for that price for that - exorbitant, come on even for a beamer.

Anyways, bottom line - im happy I got my hands on a decent - or shud I say a surprisingly fun cute A4, for a bargain price. Now its just the driving test that awaits, and ill keep ull posted on the figures - power, fuel and handling.

Bimmers ARE RWD man the A4 is FF, innit? Besides, there IS the prestige factor.

Not saying the A4 is bad or anything. German engineering in general, can't find fault with it.

[xXx]

from what i've heard a diesel BMW engine can be used for over 200k km's with out an overhaul, is this true????

nilakicha if you don't mind me asking how much did you but the A4 for? and what is the YOM?

[nira74]

Bimmers ARE RWD man the A4 is FF, innit? Besides, there IS the prestige factor.

Not saying the A4 is bad or anything. German engineering in general, can't find fault with it.

The early english number A4 Tdi was Audis answer to the 320d when it was introduced here at the right price for the doctors permits and with a mix of refinement and performance never before found in a diesel. Apparently the engines have been 'chipped' to produce a higher bhp figure than the 130+ bhp of the early 320d. The Only worry would be that these cars may now be at an age where the adverse effects of the chip upgrade would start to show if pushed hard.

Edited June 7, 2007 by nira74

[GTAm]

But the bottom line and i'm sure we can all agree with this - the europeans really know how to make good diesels! be it the Audi Tdi's, VW V10's , Alfa JTD's or BMW & MB's CRD's - they all w-o-r-k

Yes this is because of legislation like carbon credits and CO2 taxes etc in Europe. Diesels are considered cleaner coz they use less fuel and so get favourable tax breaks.

In some European countries Diesel cars out sell petrol.

Even the Japanese manufacturers are rushing in diesel development. Honda first, now Lexus and soon Subaru. This will be the first flat four diesel engine!!! Should be very interesting to listen to.

Btw talking about Alfa they are developing some cracking diesels for launch in 2008 - 1.9 JTDm Bi-turbo with 180bhp. This will be sold to Saab as well.

There's also a 2.5 version and a new V6 diesel that's been developed with VM Motori.

[Devinda_Z]

Subaru. This will be the first flat four diesel engine!!! Should be very interesting to listen to.

Btw talking about Alfa they are developing some cracking diesels for launch in 2008 - 1.9 JTDm Bi-turbo with 180bhp. This will be sold to Saab as well.

There's also a 2.5 version and a new V6 diesel that's been developed with VM Motori.

thats gonna be one very raspy-on the verge of sounding sore-burble

so does this mean theres technical collaboration between the Fiat group & GM ?

VM Motori....thats sounds rather familiar...hmmm...ah..are they the same co. that made the 2.5L Diesels for the early Range Rovers?

GTAm,any idea if euro are gonna launch the Brera or 159 here anytime soon?

what are they gonna throw the that 1.9 JTD into??hmmm bi turbo set up to cut lag is it?

but was there ever such an issue with the current engine?

[GTAm]

thats gonna be one very raspy-on the verge of sounding sore-burble

so does this mean theres technical collaboration between the Fiat group & GM ?

VM Motori....thats sounds rather familiar...hmmm...ah..are they the same co. that made the 2.5L Diesels for the early Range Rovers?

GTAm,any idea if euro are gonna launch the Brera or 159 here anytime soon?

what are they gonna throw the that 1.9 JTD into??hmmm bi turbo set up to cut lag is it?

but was there ever such an issue with the current engine?

Well it will certainly sound unique. And judging how good all flat engines sound (recently drove a new Boxter ), I'll bet this will be a cracking engine. I like Subaru's bravery in engineering and hate their bravery then and cowardice now in styling!

Yes VM made the 2.5 Diesel for the Range Rover.

Fiat group was working very closely with GM until 2005 while they had a 10% stake in Fiat and Fiat a 5% stake in GM. Infact the Grande Punto and Corsa share the same under pinnings. The 159/Brera premium platform was developed with GM (for Saab) - that's why it has ended up overweight . Fiat realized the mistake late and pulled out with GM having to pay them US$2.0bn to break away .

As far as I can guess Euro do not have the Alfa agency, and I doubt they'll get it which I think is good. Worldwide Fiat Spa has been working hard to separate the two brands. Alfa has a completely different philosophy and personality to Fiat. Alfa is being aligned with Maserati which is great. So I think they'd be looking for another company to market Alfa here.

Lag was not a big issue with the current engines but you know theirs always room for improvement. 300Nm at 1250rpm Here check out the lead story http://www.italiaspeed.com/

[Pericles]

As far as I can guess Euro do not have the Alfa agency, and I doubt they'll get it which I think is good. Worldwide Fiat Spa has been working hard to separate the two brands. Alfa has a completely different philosophy and personality to Fiat. Alfa is being aligned with Maserati which is great. So I think they'd be looking for another company to market Alfa here.

Alfa doesn't have an agent in SL? How'd u guys get ur stuff done, specially with the rep for being , uhhhh, delicate?

[GTAm]

Alfa doesn't have an agent in SL? How'd u guys get ur stuff done, specially with the rep for being , uhhhh, delicate?

Shocking I know it may sound but we have an excellent service from a very pleasant guy called Indika ex work shop manager for Alfa.

Knows his stuff inside out, stocks most spares or gets them down in a couple of days from Singapore.

The other shocker is that my 156 has been utterly reliable! No niggling issues like I had on the BMs.

I only repaired the Air con since I bought it, and now aproaching 80,000km I'm getting the suspension replaced as I note a quiver when cornering hard and the manual says its time. Shocks are around 12k each, lower arms are about 15k. Other links and bushes are cheap. Not bad IMO for 80k intervals considering the abuse I give it one our roads. And it is a car that you don't have to slow down when you get bad roads. And if you have driven an Alfa you know it simply begs you to thrash it.

[Devinda_Z]

I think they'd be looking for another company to market Alfa here.

hmmm have you ever dreamed of holding the agency for good car company out here....? i cant say i havent..

but in all seriousness, how much do you reckon it would cost for a comapny to set up and run a dealership for Alfa? but more so, what would it take for the principals to grant the rights to market thier brand?

[streetKIA]

Whats the going price of a 156 these days? I remember seeing a 2000 model in good condition for 1.7 some time ago. Quite cheap but with alfa's history I'll be scared to touch one.

[GTAm]

hmmm have you ever dreamed of holding the agency for good car company out here....? i cant say i havent..

but in all seriousness, how much do you reckon it would cost for a comapny to set up and run a dealership for Alfa? but more so, what would it take for the principals to grant the rights to market thier brand?

Dreamed about it? I've done much more Devinda. I've spoken to investors contacted principals etc. For Alfa as well as a seriously under marketed Japanese brand. As you may guess things never worked out with the local parties. They simply do not understand anything about cars let alone what marketing cars is all about. Not that many un/successful 'agents' do as you will agree.

Well the principal would insist that you have a work shop, show room etc upto their standards and get you to promise to sell x number of cars. Not to mention stocking up a load of spare parts.

With the current duty it's increasingly harder to market large volumes for any brand except those from India or China.

My estimate is that you need Rs.100m for the whole operation. The other way is to import un-officially and have an uptofdate work shop. This is a more viable solution in our tiny market.

[GTAm]

Whats the going price of a 156 these days? I remember seeing a 2000 model in good condition for 1.7 some time ago. Quite cheap but with alfa's history I'll be scared to touch one.

Nothing to fear if it has service records. You know the strange thing is.... There are 3 very good 156s for sale right now, but all the sellers are quoting well over 2m.

The owners are left with the huge problem of what to replace it with. The facelifted 156 (only 3 in SL) or some have been pestering Euro to bring down 159s.

One (wealthy) guy has gone for a stop gap Harrier until the 159 is launched. The other guy is eyeing one of the facelifted cars. While the 3rd person will have to make a decision very soon as it's a company car. You will not see more passion with any other brand.

I don't mean to undermine any brand here but after owning and driving an Alfa, a German (or any other) car just won't do for most of these guys.

You miss the lively/sporty character that's absent in a German car except in a Porsche. You tend to get very attached to the car like you can never with other car. I'm not saying that they are BEST cars. They are not, but there's that magic....unexplainable.

Just imagine a drive better than even the way they look.......

[streetKIA]

No doubt about it, Alfa romeo's look gorgeous. Though I know a friend who bought a alfa romeo 156 in 2001 from the dealer which was carmart I think. Well they had so many problems with the car and had o take it virtually everyday to the dealer, until one day the exhaust fell one day on the road. They were so fed up, they traded it in for a passat, which was trouble free. I think alfa came last too in a top gear survey they had on 2003 on reliability, qulaity, and alfa as a brand.

Well maybe there are some lucky owners without problems. The newer models seem fine its only the older models that have had issues.

[GTAm]

No doubt about it, Alfa romeo's look gorgeous. Though I know a friend who bought a alfa romeo 156 in 2001 from the dealer which was carmart I think. Well they had so many problems with the car and had o take it virtually everyday to the dealer, until one day the exhaust fell one day on the road. They were so fed up, they traded it in for a passat, which was trouble free. I think alfa came last too in a top gear survey they had on 2003 on reliability, qulaity, and alfa as a brand.

Well maybe there are some lucky owners without problems. The newer models seem fine its only the older models that have had issues.

Can't be Carmart......???

We have twelve members who have 156s in our club, none of them have many problems. There are a few inherent problems, like Cam variator faliure and early lower arm ball joint wastage. But never heard of the exhaust falling off!! Sad situ. Do you recall the reg no. of the car?

Cars before the 156 had many probs. The 155, 146 and 33 in particular and also the V6 164s.

Not only in Top Gear but also in many other surveys like "What Car" Alfa always fair very badly. One reason is that these earlier cars had terrible build quality.

But the biggest issue has been the terrible dealers. Many say they are the worst in the world. And so SL too was no exception. I mean 3 different Agents went bust to in SL Not counting Colonial Motors!!! I don't think any other brand has had to face this.

On some occasions, I know as a fact the agents did not have air filters in stock and told and billed owners that it was replaced. They also used mineral oil despite manuafcturer specifying only fully synthetic. But they would charge for...............you know what.... These are only a two of the many crazy things they did.

They obviously learned "brand building" from a rare marketing book !

Now the situ is being addressed in Europe. For example in UK more than 50% of the 70 dealerships were sacked. And new ones are being set up and monitered strictly. So we'll have to wait and see if these changes work.

The amazing thing is how passionate the fans are despite all this. Jeremy Clerkson has said many a time: "You can't really call yourself a petrolhead until you've owned an Alfa"

BTW its more the drive than the look as any owner will confirm!

[milindu]

Can't be Carmart......???

We have twelve members who have 156s in our club, none of them have many problems. There are a few inherent problems, like Cam variator faliure and early lower arm ball joint wastage. But never heard of the exhaust falling off!! Sad situ. Do you recall the reg no. of the car?

Cars before the 156 had many probs. The 155, 146 and 33 in particular and also the V6 164s.

Not only in Top Gear but also in many other surveys like "What Car" Alfa always fair very badly. One reason is that these earlier cars had terrible build quality.

But the biggest issue has been the terrible dealers. Many say they are the worst in the world. And so SL too was no exception. I mean 3 different Agents went bust to in SL Not counting Colonial Motors!!! I don't think any other brand has had to face this.

On some occasions, I know as a fact the agents did not have air filters in stock and told and billed owners that it was replaced. They also used mineral oil despite manuafcturer specifying only fully synthetic. But they would charge for...............you know what.... These are only a two of the many crazy things they did.

They obviously learned "brand building" from a rare marketing book !

Now the situ is being addressed in Europe. For example in UK more than 50% of the 70 dealerships were sacked. And new ones are being set up and monitered strictly. So we'll have to wait and see if these changes work.

The amazing thing is how passionate the fans are despite all this. Jeremy Clerkson has said many a time: "You can't really call yourself a petrolhead until you've owned an Alfa"

BTW its more the drive than the look as any owner will confirm!

Hey GTAm

I actually bumped into a friend of mine who was driving a black JA- Regd 156. Have you come across the one before? Its kept well and sparingly used as a weekend cruise.

[GTAm]

Hey GTAm

I actually bumped into a friend of mine who was driving a black JA- Regd 156. Have you come across the one before? Its kept well and sparingly used as a weekend cruise.

Hi Milindu,

Never seen it. The only late reg ones are face-lifted 156s and there are 3 in SL. There's the light silvery blue one with one of our very active memebers. Why not bring your pal to the club next time with you?

[VVTi]

Sigh...... here I am humbled after all my big talk about getting the Beemer and all..... I went and got myself a 1997 Nissan Primera 2 litre!!! More bang for my bucks and God, does she hold the road or what!!! Never driven one till this and now I am hooked. Anyone know the power output of SR20DE??? What can be done to make it more punchy? Pls help. I have plans for her!

[Pericles]

Sigh...... here I am humbled after all my big talk about getting the Beemer and all..... I went and got myself a 1997 Nissan Primera 2 litre!!! More bang for my bucks and God, does she hold the road or what!!! Never driven one till this and now I am hooked. Anyone know the power output of SR20DE??? What can be done to make it more punchy? Pls help. I have plans for her!

check wiki for the power figures. check sr20forums for the mods.

And welcome to the SR brotherhood

[milindu]

Sigh...... here I am humbled after all my big talk about getting the Beemer and all..... I went and got myself a 1997 Nissan Primera 2 litre!!! More bang for my bucks and God, does she hold the road or what!!! Never driven one till this and now I am hooked. Anyone know the power output of SR20DE??? What can be done to make it more punchy? Pls help. I have plans for her!

Been driving one since 99. Not done anything with it. Hardly any problems with the car and major fun driving. The standard SR20DE is 130 odd bhp while the Camino/GT spec is close to 150. Drop me a mail on: [email protected]

[sharkster]

congrats dude i love primeras (except for the post 2000 generation)!!... they're solidly built cars, handle really well and hold their value pretty well too... i was considering going for a P11 after my cefiro but i got hooked up elsewhere... hope you enjoy your car dude

[VVTi]

Thanks Sharkster, car is at the Garage, getting her fluids changed and getting a through check. Should be on the road by tomorrow. Can't do anything but pump gas a for a few months as my finances are drained getting her. Paid only 10.5 but still thats a lot for a poor bugger like me. Need a set of alloys, fogs and a better Stereo. As long as she runs well for the next 6 months without any issues, I will be happy. But I got the engine, suspension and tranny checked throughly and they are in great condition, so thats a relief. Will keep you posted.