Advice on buying a classic Toyota

[Nate]

Hi guys, 

I want to buy a classic (is that the right term?) Toyota, AE100, or 110/111 , and I have a few general questions, I hope it's OK to ask here.

First off, as this is a 20-30 year old car, it's obviously going to need work/restoration - are parts generally available for these cars? I am assuming that parts for the 100/110 are somewhat available?

Also, is there a decent garage who can take the car when I buy it and do the basic mechanical work? I am not very concerned about cosmetics/appearance but want to get the important stuff such as engine, transmission, suspension carefully done. Ideally I'd like to do a basic restoration when I buy it..

Also, does anyone have an idea of the current actual price range to pay for these cars these days? 

Any tips on where to get the car inspected before buying? I am guessing the agent may not inspect as it's a very old car? (Edit: searched and I found recommendations of companies that can inspect the car before purchase, thanks)

Thank you all.

Edited August 7, 2024 by Nate

[iRage]

4 hours ago, Nate said:

are parts generally available for these cars? I am assuming that parts for the 100/110 are somewhat available?

Yes and no. Yes: There are plenty of third-party parts around. No: because most of these parts are cheap, sub-standard Chinese parts. Toyota does not make E100/E110 specific parts anymore and what is made by third parties under license or are of good quality are expensive. Therefore 99% of the parts suppliers do not carry them.

This applies to mechanical and body parts. Body parts are becoming harder to come by. Most of them are coming from Thailand, Malaysia, etc...again..used parts are becoming lesser and lesser (which raises its price). So you are stuck with new parts made by third parties which has the issue I stated above.

But you can say they are somewhat available. If you plan to do a proper restoration don't expect it to be cheap.

4 hours ago, Nate said:

is there a decent garage who can take the car when I buy it and do the basic mechanical work?

90% of the garages out there are hack jobs. They will just say whatever to get your business and just do nothing but hide symptoms. There are good garages, but they are few and far between. You will have to be patient and also can cost a lot.

4 hours ago, Nate said:

Any tips on where to get the car inspected before buying? I am guessing the agent may not inspect as it's a very old car?

I believe they still would. When the agent does an inspection they will also give you a quote for fixing it. Mind you they will give you a quote to fix all the issues following the manufacturer's recommended/standard procedure. This requires replacing auxiliary parts as well as replacing entire parts (as opposed to replacing just a sub-component of it) more than most garages would be willing to do. Therefore, the agent's repair quote would be extremely high. Not to mention, they might not be able to fix some issues because they don't have model-specific original parts.

4 hours ago, Nate said:

Also, does anyone have an idea of the current actual price range to pay for these cars these days? 

There is a bit of a cult following that has built up over the last few years for the E100 and facelifted E110 (i.e., crystal light model), so the prices are a bit high. This has also resulted in people fixing fake gold badges and other trinkets of limited edition trim levels just to dupe people into paying a higher price. Mind you even if you take the actual limited edition trim levels, the additional features that you get are simply insignificant that it really does not justify the HUGE markup.

True...the E100/E110 are actually "classic" cars now, considering their age, however they are mostly considered as neo retro cars in most parts of the world. Also, due to the cost of new vehicles and the technical limitations in the country, cars of this era still remain as "normal" daily runners. The straightforwardness of these types of cars means they will keep running even with bare minimum maintenance and the engine leaking oil. THe high demand for them also means that people with these poorly maintained cars will mask up all the issues and make them shiny and new just to make a sale.

Having said that, if you find a good specimen, I am sure you will enjoy it. Cars like the E100/E110 Corolla and B13 Sunny have an interesting mix of analog and digital tech that makes them easy to drive yet analog enough to have a raw sense of enjoyment.

Cheers from a fellow E100 owner (not in SL though)

[matroska]

17 hours ago, Nate said:

I want to buy a classic (is that the right term?)

Well yeah these are after all 30 year old cars. A 1970 Beetle was a classic back in 2000. So yeah. the AE90/100's are being considered retro's (as irage properly mentioned - 'neo retro' is the word they use ) in some countries - where they are now tastefully modified by enthusiasts.  The thing with 90's Japanese cars and particularly Toyota's is that they became more reliable and had the basic tech and features that made them future proof. Compared to a 70's or 80's car - which would usually qualify as a weekend runabout/project car cars like E100's and E110's can be used as a daily driver without too much fuss. Due to this locally these are viewed more as daily drivers as opposed to classics - and have a inflated price tag. 

17 hours ago, Nate said:

are parts generally available for these cars? I am assuming that parts for the 100/110 are somewhat available?

Also, is there a decent garage who can take the car when I buy it and do the basic mechanical work?

While you won't find OEM parts now - there are plenty of third party parts, as well as recon parts.  These models usually came with either the 5A/5AFE (1.5) 4EFE (1.3) and in some instances with the 2E Carb (for export models ) I'd recommend, given the scarcity of people who can actually work with a carb to go for an EFI model. Any decent garage can handle these cars. Due to their mechanical simplicity these cars sadly have also been abused as even if a makabass mucked it up the poor thing would still run. 

[iRage]

1 hour ago, matroska said:

go for an EFI model

FYI...only the export model E100s came with carb engines. The JDM E100 sedans, coupes and hatchbacks came with EFI (the only exception was the elephant back van). The E110 was EFI except for a few models for the South East Asian market. Not sure if any of those came to SL.

[matroska]

3 hours ago, iRage said:

FYI...only the export model E100s came with carb engines. The JDM E100 sedans, coupes and hatchbacks came with EFI (the only exception was the elephant back van). The E110 was EFI except for a few models for the South East Asian market. Not sure if any of those came to SL.

Yes - as i mentioned the export variants , agent imports have the carb engines.  the  Even with the 110 - I have seen one 110 with a carb engine for sale a year or so back - so maybe we did get them in SL. The tercels those were imported b/new through the agents circa 1998-99 was also carbureted. 

[Nate]

Thank you both so much for your thoughtful indepth answers. A few thoughts/questions:

- iRage, how is comfort in the wagon version? If I remember correctly, there is a version which is more car like with better suspension etc (L touring?), and a regular version which is more van like, are they okay for long distance driving? Obviously, I don't expect luxury from a 30+ year old vehicle, but is there a big difference? I am considering the wagon because it offers more storage space and has less demand/lower price, but I do wonder if the back seat passengers will grumble about creature comforts 😁

- how is the auto version? In terms of reliability or ease of repair? I would like a manual version as I think it would be more fun to drive and simpler to repair?

-any thoughts on the engine, 1.3 vs 1.5? I would see if I can get the 1.5 version but is there a significant difference in performance? My only necessity is to drive safely, and keep up with traffic.

- yes, I'll stick to the EFI versions for simplicity. 

Does anyone here have thoughts on the 100 vs 110/111? I have never driven the 111, but we had  91/100 as family cars in the 90s, thought I haven't driven them much and don't remember much about them.

I guess there may be more parts for the 110/111 also they usually have ABS?

Does anyone here have a suggestion on a garage I could use to do basic work needed, also on typical price ranges

 

Edited August 8, 2024 by Nate

[iRage]

@Nate

The AE100G variants have independent rear suspension like the sedan. So it is more comfortable. The van variants have leaf springs in the back These would have a V at the end of the EE/AE10x part of the model number. You also get the business wagon which also has the G at the end of the model code but those have leaf springs inthe back but has interior tit-bits from the wagon. There is a thread with all the model codes for the Elephant Back van/wagon. I think there is also one for the E100 or E110 sedan.

Good wagons are hard to come by. Those who have good ones do not sell them. There are a lot of conversions. They are hardly any good. The exterior and interior panels get swapped out but the suspension remains the same.

I recommend the 1.5L variant. The 1.3L is okay for city running but can be a bit stressful on the highway or with a car full of passengers.

The autos are fine as long as they have been maintained properly. The auto can get a bit thirsty as well if not properly maintained. If you get a SE Limited then you get a 4 speed auto gear box. Every other variant came with a 3 speed auto variant.

WHat do you mean by AE111 ? AE111 is the model code for the E110 Corolla that came with a 4A engine. The domestic versions came with the performance-focused 4A-GE engine. There are less than a handful of cars in SL. There was an export variant which was also AE111 but came with a 4A-FE engine. Again...only a handful was imported by the agent as brand new vehicles, and a few were imported from Singapore as used cars.

The E110 was a bit of a let down after the E100 Corolla series. The E110 is the same as the E100 except for a few updates to the suspension specs and engine (hardly noticeable) and new body panels. Compared to the E100 most felt the E110, especially the prefacelift aka taxi version, was very cheap and simple looking. If you do go for an E110 then go for the facelift version (aka crystal light version). It is going ot be very hard to find a good and honest example of either the E100 or E110. As mentioned earlier most have fake badges and underlying issues covered up for a quick sale.

All things being equal you really don't feel much of a difference between the E100/E110. Because underneath they are more or less the same car. 

FYI..the E100 Corolla wagon and van variants were produced till 2000 whilst the sedan only lasted till about 1995 for the Japanese market variant and till about 1997/98 for the export model. This is because Toyota did not make a van/wagon for the E110 Corolla series. So they kept on producing the E100 wagon/van with updates. So if you do go for a E100 wagon, try to get the facelift variant (i.e. post 1997). This has all the updates from the E110 Corolla put to it. 

Yes..in Japan around 1997 ABS and dual airbags became mandatory for all passenger cars. So E110 series or E100 Corolla wagons, Ceres/Marino will all have ABS as standard and dual airbags.

Somethings to look out for....make sure that there are no oil leaks from the: crank, valve cover and spark plug seals. These are known to go bad. Apart from that the autos need to be properly maintained. Suspension can make noises if not attended to (i.e. make sure that bushings from suspension to control arms have been attended to properly).

Edited August 9, 2024 by iRage

[Nate]

Thank you so much. 

Yes, I will try to find the 1.5 variant. 

Do you have thoughts on the diesel? Generally how is it's performance in keeping up with basic traffic?  I have a feeling that the diesel could be more prone to issues due to age, vs the gasoline one which is simpler?

Sorry, yes, there's no AE111 as such, I was thinking of the facelifted version. 

Thanks for your insight on the wagon continuing production parallel to the E110. That makes sense.

I will remember to check what you mentioned 🙏🏾 

Edit: I see you spoke about this car and the diesel variants here

Edited August 9, 2024 by Nate

[matroska]

On 8/8/2024 at 6:48 PM, iRage said:

WHat do you mean by AE111 ?

Pretty Sure @Nate is referring to the EE111 and not the AE111.

The EE111 comes with a 1.3 (4EFE/2E) engine. 

[Nate]

Following up on this. I have looked at a few corolla cars - sedan and wagon versions. What I have seen so far is vehicles which are not roadworthy. 

I'm looking at a few other cars... In particular, I started to look at some early 2000 Nissan's. I have seen a few N16/Bluebird Sylphy automatic cars which aren't in terrible condition so I may pick one of those instead. 

The corolla of this era is an incredibly reliable car. But due to this, people often don't bother to maintain it.

I'm particularly interested in the N16/17 bluebird, due to the reputation of "high fuel consumption" people fear the 1500 cc higher variants, so there are a few which are serviceable. I gather these cars are similar to the sunny and mechanical parts are available (body parts are also somewhat available?)

 

Edited August 28, 2024 by Nate

[iRage]

4 hours ago, Nate said:

I'm particularly interested in the N16/17 bluebird

Give me a minute till I get around the fact that these cars are now considered classics. Damn I am old.

These are not technically Bluebirds. They are Sunnies. Nissan just did some badge reassignments for some markets.

Yes...parts are available. Perhaps not as much as the Toyotas of the period. But available. The car is comfy..heavy...a bit of a sloth compared to its competition. As with any other car good original or 3rd party parts will be pricey.

You are spot on about the Corolla and other common Toyotas of the period.

Now, if you are up for a decent project, you could always buy a Corolla (or any other car you actually had your mind on) of the period and do a proper period-correct restoration. Perhaps do some simple upgrades as well to make it your own. However, if you do decide to do this...do it if and only if you plan to hold on to the car for some time so that you can get some enjoyment and utility of the time, effort, and money you will be sinking into it. 

[Nate]

2 hours ago, iRage said:

Give me a minute till I get around the fact that these cars are now considered classics. Damn I am old.

I remember when a 120y was considered new. AHH the smell of cheap vynil and carcinogens

2 hours ago, iRage said:

These are not technically Bluebirds. They are Sunnies. Nissan just did some badge reassignments for some markets.

Yes...parts are available. Perhaps not as much as the Toyotas of the period. But available. The car is comfy..heavy...a bit of a sloth compared to its competition. As with any other car good original or 3rd party parts will be pricey.

Good point. Being slightly slower probably won't be much of an issue, as long as it can overtake an occasional slow tuk tuk.

 

2 hours ago, iRage said:

You are spot on about the Corolla and other common Toyotas of the period.

Now, if you are up for a decent project, you could always buy a Corolla (or any other car you actually had your mind on) of the period and do a proper period-correct restoration. Perhaps do some simple upgrades as well to make it your own. However, if you do decide to do this...do it if and only if you plan to hold on to the car for some time so that you can get some enjoyment and utility of the time, effort, and money you will be sinking into it. 

I would be happy to but I have no knowledge to do it personally, and would have to rely on garages - also the vehicles i saw are so far gone .. i am certain there are good corollas out there (i will keep looking) but theres such a high premium attached to them it just doesn't seem worthwhile.

Edited August 28, 2024 by Nate

[matroska]

16 hours ago, Nate said:

I started to look at some early 2000 Nissan's. I have seen a few N16/Bluebird Sylphy automatic cars which aren't in terrible condition so I may pick one of those instead. 

Currently, Nissan's are probably more reasonably priced compared to other Japanese brands. The whole bad-on-fuel mantra seems to have caused that. Generally these are ok cars, parts are not a problem and won't cost you an arm and a leg either. A decent alternative I'd say. 

[Nate]

On 8/29/2024 at 8:52 AM, matroska said:

Currently, Nissan's are probably more reasonably priced compared to other Japanese brands. The whole bad-on-fuel mantra seems to have caused that. Generally these are ok cars, parts are not a problem and won't cost you an arm and a leg either. A decent alternative I'd say. 

On that subject, do you know or anyone here know what the typical price for a Nissan N16 would be? I know it would depend on many things such as condition, specs, year etc... but just a rough range? I see most adverts quote a price between 2.8-3.5 million, though I wonder if people are buying them as there are ones listed in June/July still for sale.

[matroska]

17 hours ago, Nate said:

On that subject, do you know or anyone here know what the typical price for a Nissan N16 would be? I know it would depend on many things such as condition, specs, year etc... but just a rough range? I see most adverts quote a price between 2.8-3.5 million, though I wonder if people are buying them as there are ones listed in June/July still for sale.

well would depend on the YOM, the plates (301,302 are quite cheap , J numbers go for more), the facelift one is more pricier - 1.3 One is cheaper and then the manuals anyway go for a lot less. Some people list manuals at high prices and most of them stagnate for months. Honestly if you're ok with stick , go for a manual - you could haggle a bit too. 

[iRage]

35 minutes ago, matroska said:

well would depend on the YOM, the plates (301,302 are quite cheap , J numbers go for more), the facelift one is more pricier - 1.3 One is cheaper and then the manuals anyway go for a lot less. Some people list manuals at high prices and most of them stagnate for months. Honestly if you're ok with stick , go for a manual - you could haggle a bit too. 

True...I have noticed that the masses now actually prefer automatics. The older generation seems to be too feeble to drive manuals..the younger generation can't (the % of those who can't seem to be growing) and the mid-aged people don't want to deal with a MT in heavy traffic.

As for the N17...I feel it has the social myths surrounding it has affected its value/appreciation on top of the "its not a Toyota" factor.

Personally, I don't think the N17 is any worst than 99% of the crappy Corollas up for sale.

[matroska]

2 hours ago, iRage said:

I have noticed that the masses now actually prefer automatics

This started happening in the mid 2000's and in the last 10 years manuals fully fell out of favor.  Nowadays if there is an automatic variant of a certain model, it costs a few hundred thousand more.  Well can't blame them - especially if you drive a lot in cities and suburbs in heavy traffic. I noticed that when I had the old lancer, if I had to go somewhere during rush hour I'd come up with an excuse not to drive it  (see we are getting lazy) 

If someone went into a coma at the turn of the century woke up now he'll be shocked to hear that Autos, Petrols and Cars are in demand than Manuals, diesels and vans  

[Nate]

7 hours ago, matroska said:

well would depend on the YOM, the plates (301,302 are quite cheap , J numbers go for more), the facelift one is more pricier - 1.3 One is cheaper and then the manuals anyway go for a lot less. Some people list manuals at high prices and most of them stagnate for months. Honestly if you're ok with stick , go for a manual - you could haggle a bit too. 

Thanks..I'm not worried about the number, I would avoid the facelift (suspect body parts are rarer) and 1300 (somewhat underpowered for the weight) and go for automatic.

Do you have any rough idea of actual prices I could pay for 1500cc auto 3xx, J, K plate etc?

Edited September 4, 2024 by Nate
(clarification)

[Nate]

6 hours ago, iRage said:

The older generation seems to be too feeble to drive manual

LOL that's me.

So for context I often do long drives cross country and manual transmission (which I currently use) can be trying, to say the least. 

[carboy2011]

On 9/4/2024 at 11:12 AM, Nate said:

Thanks..I'm not worried about the number, I would avoid the facelift (suspect body parts are rarer) and 1300 (somewhat underpowered for the weight) and go for automatic.

Do you have any rough idea of actual prices I could pay for 1500cc auto 3xx, J, K plate etc?

As an N16 facelift user I can recommend the car,mines a manual 1.6 engine and J series imported B/N its very comfy and parts are freely available with AC and in heavy traffic I get 8-10kmpl and on long distances on flat roads its 14-15kmpl,I have not yet had the time to go upcountry to check fuel on climbs though

Edited September 7, 2024 by carboy2011

[Nuwan2806]

On 8/7/2024 at 8:35 PM, iRage said:

Yes and no. Yes: There are plenty of third-party parts around. No: because most of these parts are cheap, sub-standard Chinese parts. Toyota does not make E100/E110 specific parts anymore and what is made by third parties under license or are of good quality are expensive. Therefore 99% of the parts suppliers do not carry them.

This applies to mechanical and body parts. Body parts are becoming harder to come by. Most of them are coming from Thailand, Malaysia, etc...again..used parts are becoming lesser and lesser (which raises its price). So you are stuck with new parts made by third parties which has the issue I stated above.

But you can say they are somewhat available. If you plan to do a proper restoration don't expect it to be cheap.

90% of the garages out there are hack jobs. They will just say whatever to get your business and just do nothing but hide symptoms. There are good garages, but they are few and far between. You will have to be patient and also can cost a lot.

I believe they still would. When the agent does an inspection they will also give you a quote for fixing it. Mind you they will give you a quote to fix all the issues following the manufacturer's recommended/standard procedure. This requires replacing auxiliary parts as well as replacing entire parts (as opposed to replacing just a sub-component of it) more than most garages would be willing to do. Therefore, the agent's repair quote would be extremely high. Not to mention, they might not be able to fix some issues because they don't have model-specific original parts.

There is a bit of a cult following that has built up over the last few years for the E100 and facelifted E110 (i.e., crystal light model), so the prices are a bit high. This has also resulted in people fixing fake gold badges and other trinkets of limited edition trim levels just to dupe people into paying a higher price. Mind you even if you take the actual limited edition trim levels, the additional features that you get are simply insignificant that it really does not justify the HUGE markup.

True...the E100/E110 are actually "classic" cars now, considering their age, however they are mostly considered as neo retro cars in most parts of the world. Also, due to the cost of new vehicles and the technical limitations in the country, cars of this era still remain as "normal" daily runners. The straightforwardness of these types of cars means they will keep running even with bare minimum maintenance and the engine leaking oil. THe high demand for them also means that people with these poorly maintained cars will mask up all the issues and make them shiny and new just to make a sale.

Having said that, if you find a good specimen, I am sure you will enjoy it. Cars like the E100/E110 Corolla and B13 Sunny have an interesting mix of analog and digital tech that makes them easy to drive yet analog enough to have a raw sense of enjoyment.

Cheers from a fellow E100 owner (not in SL though)

I saw this model car completed 1 million miles, without major repairs.

[iRage]

On 9/7/2024 at 11:52 PM, Nuwan2806 said:

I saw this model car completed 1 million miles, without major repairs.

Yes....there is a car in New Zealand or Australia with a million miles and counting. Plus there are quite a few that are 500,000+ without major repairs. The key is regular proper maintenance. Sri Lankans are not known for that. Understandable, as they spend all their money on buying the car that it becomes a choice between money for living or money for proper maintenance.

Also, there are plenty that keep running even without proper maintenance and going through very harsh usage conditions. Afghanistan and most African countries are full of things. 99% of them are all dented, with shot suspension and with all kinds of wierd noises coming from the engine bay. But they still keep running.

[Nate]

On 9/9/2024 at 8:19 AM, iRage said:

Yes....there is a car in New Zealand or Australia with a million miles and counting. Plus there are quite a few that are 500,000+ without major repairs. The key is regular proper maintenance. Sri Lankans are not known for that. Understandable, as they spend all their money on buying the car that it becomes a choice between money for living or money for proper maintenance.

Also, there are plenty that keep running even without proper maintenance and going through very harsh usage conditions. Afghanistan and most African countries are full of things. 99% of them are all dented, with shot suspension and with all kinds of wierd noises coming from the engine bay. But they still keep running.

Built in an era before planned obsolescence became a thing.

[Nate]

I went and looked at a number of cars. Here are some things I observed.

- Around 10% of advertised vehicles actually belong to the person selling them. 

- Many of the E100/110s and FB15s are in bad condition. Either cosmetically, mechanically or both.

I also saw Carinas and N16s, again, a mix of cosmetic and engine issues visible.

I did see ONE N16 which was in functional condition. Just one, incredibly, out of all the cars I saw. 

I mean, it had a level of wear and tear to be expected but didn't seem to have fundamental issues.

 

I am thinking about the 2000s wagon variants of nissan and Toyota. It seems the G touring and wingroad (genuine) variants are rare.

 

Has anyone owned the van variants with leaf springs? How bad are these for passenger comfort? Is it passable, or unbearable?

[Nate]

I saw an E110 "facelift" car with a carburettor. This was a surprise for me, I assumed the carburettor was phased out for EFI before the facelift. Maybe they switched the engine or something? Nice looking car though.

 

Also, there was an e110 full of cockroaches. And one which had lived 30 years under a tree.

The car sales were most fun..I went there to understand the cars (not to buy).

I feel sorry for.anyone who buys from those.

 

Another thing that amazed me is how quickly some of these cars sold. I would look at a car which is falling apart, .by the end of the day someone has purchased it.

[Nate]

For the FB15 and E110, it appears that if the engine starts and wheels rotate, people will happily buy it.

It seems the modus operandi is to use the car 20 years with zero maintenance, then paint it nicely. That's all that's needed to sell it.

Edited September 18, 2024 by Nate