Shifting Gears At Red Range In Rpm

[Iroshana]

What is the best position to up shift gears to get maximum speed of the car? Is it harmful to the engine when shifting at the beginning of Red Range in RPM meter? Any suggestions pls. This is not in normal driving. Just to get maximum speed in minimum time.

[charitha19]

if u down shift in red range.. u will blow it.. so dont try to do that unless u have a very tolerent engine.. as for optimum speed.. it depends on ur gear ratios,, and the wear and tear of ur gear box... its more of a feeler.. if u know ur car well then u can judge this and time ur RPM GAUGE to give u the light.. there is of course a proffesional way of doing this.. but dont know of a garage that can do it for you... but if u know ur car and gears well.. u will feel it.. again dont down shift in the red..

but i would say just before the red line stars might be a good place to up shift first.. but again u wil have to see.. normally in the first gear.. u wont get full power thorugh out ur range.. i am talking normal aspirated engine.. non turbo..... but after second u will hopefully get power thorugh out the range..

hope this helped...

Edited May 8, 2008 by charitha19

[GihanFX]

Some cars has a Furl cut off at Red line, so its better to shift before the Red Line, But in most Honda's u can go pass the redline and shift but other than u change some internals or run a Chiped ECU u cant get the max performance and as i know with Zakis chips u can go around 9 to 10, but in turbo cars its better to shift around 6 but 7 is also not bad, but if the internals are modified and runing a Chiped ecu +gud fuel u can go close to 9, and to get max i lauch at 7 to 7.5 and shift at 8.5 but the redline at 7 (u also need a gud cluch)

[madmax]

In a scientific point of view, the most efficient shift point depends on the power curve of your engine. consider the two graphs below.

Graph 1

Graph 2

In the first graph you will see that the power and torque curves keep increasing with revs. This is typical of a low capacity high output naturally aspirated engine. But on the second graph the power and torque starts dropping after around 7000rpm, a typical turbo charged low engine.

So on car similar to what produced graph 1, it is better to shift at the highest safest rpm. But on the car with the second graph, there is no use of holding the revs after the point power starts to drop. Ideally you should shift at point the curve starts to fall.

My explanation is from a theoretical point of view. I'm sure there are more experienced members who will contribute with the practical aspect of it.

Edited May 8, 2008 by madmax

[Nilantha]

What is the best position to up shift gears to get maximum speed of the car? Is it harmful to the engine when shifting at the beginning of Red Range in RPM meter? Any suggestions pls. This is not in normal driving. Just to get maximum speed in minimum time.

A good topic.

[Crazy Life]

afaik in Diesel engine,the best range is 3000-3500RPM,thats the best range for the maximum HP.I cant remember the source but it works well for me

[charitha19]

i think madmax touched on my point of doing in proffesioanlly..

u have to graph ur curve to determine the power curve..

but for launching as gihanFX said u have to have a good clutch and usaally hold it around 6000RPM and launch and quick shift to second.. but without knowing the car is really hard to give an exact answer to this...

and adding to madmaz's theory.

Optimal shift points

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/whentoshift.htm

Looking to get maximum effect out of your car when accelerating? Try optimizing the RPM's you shift your car at. If you're shifting at redline, you're probably not getting the best acceleration out of your car - in fact, the optimum shift RPM will probably be different for each gear. You can calculate the optimum shift points, but it takes two pieces of information : Gear ratios of all your gears, and a chart of your torque curve.

If you don't understand torque curves, you may want to take a look at the horsepower article in my Technical Department before reading any farther.

The trick here is to keep your engine in the meaty part of the torque curve, as your acceleration curve will match your torque curve - meaning if your torque peak is at 3000rpm, that's the RPM your car accelerates the hardest. How do you keep the engine in the best part of the curve? Shift when you will be at an RPM where the car will make more torque AFTER you shift than in your current gear. This may sound confusing, but I will give some examples to help demonstrate this. Gear ratio is important because you need to know what your RPM's will drop to once you shift. EXAMPLE : If you're at 6500rpm in first, you need the gear ratio to know what RPM that will translates to once you shift to 2nd.

Below is a torque curve for a fictitious engine :

Engine

Torque Gear ratio Now with your gear ratio in hand, figure out how many RPM's will drop going from 1st to 2nd. In this case, it'll drop by 1/3 (2:1 divided by 3:1). So shifting from 1st to 2nd at 6000rpm, it will drop to 4000rpm. This means you're going from 330ft/lbs (see chart - 6000rpm in 1st) to 220ft/lbs (6000rpm * .6666) = 4000rpm in 2nd). Not what you want - you want these numbers to be the same. How about 6400? 285 vs 240 - much better, but let's try 6800 : 210 vs about 250. Oops, too far. In this case, optimum shift point is between 6400 and 6800rpm for the 1-2 shift.

It works the same for each consecutive gear, as the shift RPM may be different for each gear. Below are graphs representing how it looks on "paper".

3:1 2:1 1.3:1

3600 100 300 200 130

4000 110 330 220 143

4400 120 360 240 156

4800 125 375 250 163

5200 125 375 250 163

5600 120 360 240 156

6000 110 330 220 143

6400 95 285 190 124

6800 70 210 140 91

Gear --> 1st 2nd 3rd

Notice anything? The two torque outputs are almost the same (6600 in first and 4400 in second), which is what you're going for to achieve maximum acceleration. What does it look like on the horsepower side? Take a look at the chart below :

Well what do you know! You bracket the HP peak. HP after the shift is the same as HP before the shift. Now we know shifting at the torque peak isn't the answer, and neither is shifting at the HP peak.

The math required : next higher gear ratio / current gear ratio (i,e. second gear divided by first) = X

X * shiftrpm = nextrpm, where shiftrpm is the point your shifting AT, and nextrpm will be the RPM of the next gear at the same speed.

firstgeartorque = torque at shiftrpm times current gear ratio (example, at 6400rpm we have 95ft/lbs, multiply this by our gear ratio in 1st (3:1, or just 3) and you get about 245ft/lbs.

secondgeartorque = torque at nextrpm times next gear ratio (in out example, we have 120ft/lbs @ 4400rpm, times 2:1 (second gear ratio), and you get 240ft/lbs.

Change shiftrpm until firstgeartorque is equal (or close to) secondgeartorque.

Edited May 9, 2008 by charitha19

[magnom]

if you need to reach maximize speed in right rpm,you will never can do it by learning as no one can teach it and it depending on you.when you drive you must feel it.that feel comes with exprience but keep in your mind that points which madmax and charitha had given.but nilanth never hold and stay at redline its not good for pocket

*Mad and charith good points, keep going

[charitha19]

if you need to reach maximize speed in right rpm,you will never can do it by learning as no one can teach it and it depending on you.when you drive you must feel it.that feel comes with exprience but keep in your mind that points which madmax and charitha had given.but nilanth never hold and stay at redline its not good for pocket

*Mad and charith good points, keep going

and another thing to keep in mind is the car, they type of engine, and gearbox you have.. some are tollerent some are not.. and if u push it too hard u might blow something u really dont wanna blow... the best thing is to try differnt things out.. and measure what u get.. there is a small equiempment which can be used its called the Pivot Speed Meter X

this has three functions:

Limiter Remover - Removes the speed limiter built into cars to stop them from going over 180 km/h (for K cars 140 km/h). With this unit you can experience the world of high speed over 180km/h.

Speed Meter - Displays speeds in 1 kilometer units from 0 to 350 km/h. Also has a Hold Peak Speed Function.

Acceleration Timer - Automatic measuring system allows you to track acceleration speed by setting desired distance and get readings for time and max speed over that distance.

PRICE : Rs.9500/-

the price is from autoboost dont know if lastitha has it in stock now.. but this is good to see what u get at differnt shift points and ur timing.. otherwise u need someone in the car and it wont be accurate...

againa magnom said its experince in ur own car.. at some RPM level u will literally feel the power drop.. u just need to find that out and keep that in mind when u shift...once u get hold of it.. u can maybe get a shift light and mark out those levels.. this way u will get the light to shift...

but in reality every gear will have a differnt shift point for best power transfer.. the theory is to shift with maxioum power and torque transfer.. which usually means minimum RPM drop...

Edited May 13, 2008 by charitha19

[Devinda_Z]

and another thing to keep in mind is the car, they type of engine, and gearbox you have.. some are tollerent some are not.. and if u push it too hard u might blow something u really dont wanna blow... the best thing is to try differnt things out.. and measure what u get.. there is a small equiempment which can be used its called the Pivot Speed Meter X

this has three functions:

Limiter Remover - Removes the speed limiter built into cars to stop them from going over 180 km/h (for K cars 140 km/h). With this unit you can experience the world of high speed over 180km/h.

Speed Meter - Displays speeds in 1 kilometer units from 0 to 350 km/h. Also has a Hold Peak Speed Function.

Acceleration Timer - Automatic measuring system allows you to track acceleration speed by setting desired distance and get readings for time and max speed over that distance.

AutoLanka has it in stock

http://www.autolanka.com/ad.asp?ID=3204

as Russel Peters says "I give you bes' price!" - - Eighty Two Fifty (Rs. 8250)

Edited May 13, 2008 by Devinda_Z

[charitha19]

AutoLanka has it in stock

http://www.autolanka.com/ad.asp?ID=3204

as Russel Peters says "I give you bes' price!" - - Eighty Two Fifty (Rs. 8250)

machang it says devinda for the name..

so u have it...

[Devinda_Z]

machang it says devinda for the name..

so u have it...

yup - if anyone wants it , you know who to call

i bought the unit for the Z but never got around to installing it - so its been sitting pretty in the box along side the manual n all connecting cables

let me know if any of you'll want it

[charitha19]

yup - if anyone wants it , you know who to call

i bought the unit for the Z but never got around to installing it - so its been sitting pretty in the box along side the manual n all connecting cables

let me know if any of you'll want it

what the price u gonna give me..

better question can it be fixed to my BG.. also wanted it.. now really want it to test out the newly made engine.. with GT pistons....

Edited May 13, 2008 by charitha19

[Velocity]

I have a Civic SIR. Is it ok to REV up to 9500 rpm.

Not that i want to, but sometimes you really cannot look at the rpm when driving.

[Devinda_Z]

what the price u gonna give me..

better question can it be fixed to my BG.. also wanted it.. now really want it to test out the newly made engine.. with GT pistons....

i hope Madz doesn't mind me discussing this here...

well your welcome to make me an offer machan , given you know what i'm expecting

i just checked the box - in the Mazda section it gives the following model & engine numbers that its compatible with

RX 7 FD 3S : 13 B REW

NB 8C : BP - ZE

NB 6C : B6 - ZE

NA 8C : BP - ZE

but i'm guessing it'll work with just about any Electronically Fuel Injected car , cuz there are just three wires to connect to 3 wires running into the ECU if i remeber right.

The wiring diagram for all the vehicle makes is also included

[charitha19]

i hope Madz doesn't mind me discussing this here...

well your welcome to make me an offer machan , given you know what i'm expecting

i just checked the box - in the Mazda section it gives the following model & engine numbers that its compatible with

RX 7 FD 3S : 13 B REW

NB 8C : BP - ZE

NB 6C : B6 - ZE

NA 8C : BP - ZE

but i'm guessing it'll work with just about any Electronically Fuel Injected car , cuz there are just three wires to connect to 3 wires running into the ECU if i remeber right.

The wiring diagram for all the vehicle makes is also included

better i will give u a call machan... coz dont think its suitable to discuss it here.. the topic is shifting ney...

[charitha19]

I have a Civic SIR. Is it ok to REV up to 9500 rpm.

Not that i want to, but sometimes you really cannot look at the rpm when driving.

well i guess not all the time.. but since its an SIR i think the machine can handle it... which again brings me to my next question... with an SIR do u have to rev that much machang

i assume it has two stage V tec... oh am i just confused with the models... i assume it has a 8000RPM redline.. am i right...

Edited May 13, 2008 by charitha19

[priya]

I have a Civic SIR. Is it ok to REV up to 9500 rpm.

Not that i want to, but sometimes you really cannot look at the rpm when driving.

Do you still have the RX8 for sale? Apart from this what other cars available with you?

[Pericles]

Do you still have the RX8 for sale? Apart from this what other cars available with you?

Remember there is a rule that says "No advertising on the Forums?"

[priya]

Remember there is a rule that says "No advertising on the Forums?"

My apoloigies

[Saturn]

What is the best position to up shift gears to get maximum speed of the car? Is it harmful to the engine when shifting at the beginning of Red Range in RPM meter? Any suggestions pls. This is not in normal driving. Just to get maximum speed in minimum time.

Pardon the question but what vehicle do you drive?

Redlining your engine could lead to excessive wear, even possible damage.

Edited May 24, 2008 by Saturn

[Iroshana]

Pardon the question but what vehicle do you drive?

Redlining your engine could lead to excessive wear, even possible damage.

Sorry I didn't asked for a specific vehicle. Just wanted to know it in general. However I got a very clear idea on shifting at optimum rpm. Thanks to AL family.

[Velocity]

Do you still have the RX8 for sale? Apart from this what other cars available with you?

Hey PC i sold the Rx 8 Last Year.

Now i am building up a Civic EG 6 SIR just for fun, but it will be race spec. just want to run some hill climbs and may be tarmac rallies time to come. I got the car from Mahinda who races the Evo 9.

[Devinda_Z]

Applause dies away!

Trophies gather dust!

Winners are soon forgotten

The people who mean something to your life are not rated “the best”, don’t have the most money, haven’t won the greatest prizes… They are the ones who care about you, take care of you, those who, no matter what, stay close by.

Some time ago, at the Seattle Olympics, nine athletes, all mentally or physically challenged, were standing on the start line for the 100 m race.

The gun fired and the race began. Not everyone was running, but everyone wanted to participate and win.

They ran in threes, a boy tripped and fell, did a few somersaults and started crying.

The other eight heard him crying.

They slowed down and looked behind them.

They stopped and came back… All of them…

A girl with Down’s Syndrome sat down next to him, hugged him and asked, “Feeling better now?”

Then, all nine walked shoulder to shoulder to the finish line. The whole crowd stood up and applauded. And the applause lasted a very long time… People who witnessed this still talk about it. Why?

Because deep down inside us, we all know that the most important thing in life is much more than winning for ourselves. The most important thing in this life is to help others to win. Even if that means slowing down and changing our own race.

Totally OT , but thats a lovely signature Velocity

[Velocity]

Totally OT , but thats a lovely signature Velocity

LOL Let me know your Email Addy so i can send you a nice PPS.