Should I Be Worried: Engine Sludge (symptoms)

vitz · February 22, 2009

Guys,

Very recently I bought an unregistered vios (2005). When I inspected the engine after removing the oil filling cap, I noticed a brown colour substance in side the engine. It come to my finger when I rub it (this substance is not hard). Is that mean my car is suffering from sludge formation?.

I went through the net and there are mixed comments on that. Anyhow, the simple theory they are presenting is that the oil filler cap test partly shows this problem. Guys, i am really really worried about this. The car performs really well, even i could see water droplets comming out from the exhaust.

I did my first service from toyota lanka today. They are also inconclusive about that, but they said that in the next time they can add a liquid to clear it to some extent. Is this a suitable remady for that?.

Guys, i will post some pictures soon.

regards

AMG · February 22, 2009

vitz said:
Guys,
Very recently I bought an unregistered vios (2005). When I inspected the engine after removing the oil filling cap, I noticed a brown colour substance in side the engine. It come to my finger when I rub it (this substance is not hard). Is that mean my car is suffering from sludge formation?.

I went through the net and there are mixed comments on that. Anyhow, the simple theory they are presenting is that the oil filler cap test partly shows this problem. Guys, i am really really worried about this. The car performs really well, even i could see water droplets comming out from the exhaust.

I did my first service from toyota lanka today. They are also inconclusive about that, but they said that in the next time they can add a liquid to clear it to some extent. Is this a suitable remady for that?.

Guys, i will post some pictures soon.

regards

What you see is not sludge machan. For Vios engines, when you remove the oil caps you cant see anything as there is a flat metal surface is blocking the view. (Don't really know the technical name) That is always in brown sladgy color and also it comes to the finger too. The main reason is when the engine is running the oil will not come to this part. You can open the cap and start the engine and see. When you revving only a few small spray type drops will come to that part and get dried and looks as sludge. To find out is there a sludge You have to see a part where the oil flows normally when the engine runs.

Trust me. I had a Vios in Thailand. One day when I removed the oil cap I found the same brown color and got shocked as the car was only One Year old at that time and bought as Brand New. Then I found that nothing to worry as the oil doesnt flow through the part you see when you remove the cap.

vitz · February 22, 2009

Thanks machan, you relieved me from pain. I was really upset about that. I was too sure about the machine that is why i did not bring a technician before that. But, i was suffering alot about that decision.

Today, what i saw in the toyota lanka further troubled me. They showed me a vios engine siezed by this sludge problem.

Many thanks Bharath again,,,,

vitz

Bharath said:
What you see is not sludge machan. For Vios engines, when you remove the oil caps you cant see anything as there is a flat metal surface is blocking the view. (Don't really know the technical name) That is always in brown sladgy color and also it comes to the finger too. The main reason is when the engine is running the oil will not come to this part. You can open the cap and start the engine and see. When you revving only a few small spray type drops will come to that part and get dried and looks as sludge. To find out is there a sludge You have to see a part where the oil flows normally when the engine runs.
Trust me. I had a Vios in Thailand. One day when I removed the oil cap I found the same brown color and got shocked as the car was only One Year old at that time and bought as Brand New. Then I found that nothing to worry as the oil doesnt flow through the part you see when you remove the cap.

Az · February 22, 2009

I also have a Vios that has no problems at all and I also see the yellowish substance when I remove the engine oil cap. This is not an issue. When I serviced my car for the first time at Kleenpark after purchasing, the service advisor said that the engine is in good condition and that there is no sludge formation. The guys also told that sludge formation is a problem frequently seen in VVT engines, hence these engines require proper maintenance (oil change at the appropriate intervals)

Edited February 22, 2009 by Az

Az · February 22, 2009

--duplicate--

Edited February 22, 2009 by Az

AMG · February 23, 2009

vitz said:
Thanks machan, you relieved me from pain. I was really upset about that. I was too sure about the machine that is why i did not bring a technician before that. But, i was suffering alot about that decision.
Today, what i saw in the toyota lanka further troubled me. They showed me a vios engine siezed by this sludge problem.

Many thanks Bharath again,,,,

vitz

Most welcome bro. To avoid getting sludge best way is to do the oil change as often as you can. ( atleast by the end of three months) It doesn't matter whether you reached the appropriate mileage, the time interval too make sence.

And Never Ever start a cold engine and stop it in few seconds. (ie: in a morning you have to move the car few yards to wash it)

If you got to start a cold engine make sure you leave the engine running until it gets the operating teperature and then stop. This will avoid the sludge as well. Don't count the cents for the petrol as when you get sludge you will be spending rupees.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Bharath

corollahv · February 23, 2009

If it's a sludge formation you have to attend it soon.

If it's not sludge, no issue.

Better have it tested.

because my first symptoms were like yours but I was less carefull.

You can figure out what's going on just removing the top cover of your engine at a suitable place (A simple thing, will cost u almost nothing)

I had a bad experince and following is the discussion,

http://forum.autolanka.com/index.php?s...art=#entry86378

It cost me around 60k to repair.

vitz · February 23, 2009

Many thanks bro,

Do you mean that once I start the engine, I have to wait till the blue water temp indicator goes off. Or keep the engine started for a particular time period.

I do change the oil once in three monts. Machang my daily trip is mearly less than 20 km. So, it would be better to change the oil in that interval i suppose.

In my first service done yesterday, they use toyota engine oil. i think it is a semi-synthetic. Is it okay to continue with that or better to change to fully synthetic?.

thank for all who commented on my post

vitz

Bharath said:
Most welcome bro. To avoid getting sludge best way is to do the oil change as often as you can. ( atleast by the end of three months) It doesn't matter whether you reached the appropriate mileage, the time interval too make sence.
And Never Ever start a cold engine and stop it in few seconds. (ie: in a morning you have to move the car few yards to wash it)

If you got to start a cold engine make sure you leave the engine running until it gets the operating teperature and then stop. This will avoid the sludge as well. Don't count the cents for the petrol as when you get sludge you will be spending rupees.

AMG · February 23, 2009

vitz said:
Many thanks bro,
Do you mean that once I start the engine, I have to wait till the blue water temp indicator goes off. Or keep the engine started for a particular time period.

I do change the oil once in three monts. Machang my daily trip is mearly less than 20 km. So, it would be better to change the oil in that interval i suppose.

In my first service done yesterday, they use toyota engine oil. i think it is a semi-synthetic. Is it okay to continue with that or better to change to fully synthetic?.

thank for all who commented on my post

vitz

Yep. It will be fine to stop when the blue light goes off or a couple of minutes after that.

I also do around 2k mileage in in three months and change the oil in every 3 months.

I never used synthetic oil. As far as I know Toyota oil is good but I don't have any personal experineces as I always stick with Pitstop even for Toyota car. What's the grade of the Toyota oil which you used?

For my vios I used Mobil Super XHP Plus multigrade mineral oil having viscosity of 15-40 and never had any problem. I use the same oil to FB15 too.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Bharath

vitz · February 23, 2009

I remember like the type of oil they use is 10W-30. I will, recheck it and confirm to you. I did the service from the toyota lanka agent in Kandy. Its quite expensive the basic service (cost around 6000 rs), but i think its reasonable since they use geniune spares.

machang, what brand of oil filter you normally use.

regards

Bharath said:
Yep. It will be fine to stop when the blue light goes off or a couple of minutes after that.
I also do around 2k mileage in in three months and change the oil in every 3 months.

I never used synthetic oil. As far as I know Toyota oil is good but I don't have any personal experineces as I always stick with Pitstop even for Toyota car. What's the grade of the Toyota oil which you used?

For my vios I used Mobil Super XHP Plus multigrade mineral oil having viscosity of 15-40 and never had any problem. I use the same oil to FB15 too.

AMG · February 23, 2009

vitz said:
I remember like the type of oil they use is 10W-30. I will, recheck it and confirm to you. I did the service from the toyota lanka agent in Kandy. Its quite expensive the basic service (cost around 6000 rs), but i think its reasonable since they use geniune spares.
machang, what brand of oil filter you normally use.

regards

10W-30 is fine. Cos 30 is bit thinner than 40. But never use 50 as it will ruin your vvti system.

Pitstop has the original Toyota Oil Filters too. I always use the original oil and air filters even if they are quiet expensive. Used to use the Japanese oem filters and once I found out a huge performance difference on my FB15 with the original Air filter then changed to original and stick with it. And I take Mobil Oil from out side to Pitstop as they don't sell Mobil as they are the agents for Castrol and BP.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Bharath

Nilantha · February 23, 2009

vitz said:
Guys,
Very recently I bought an unregistered vios (2005). When I inspected the engine after removing the oil filling cap, I noticed a brown colour substance in side the engine. It come to my finger when I rub it (this substance is not hard). Is that mean my car is suffering from sludge formation?.

I went through the net and there are mixed comments on that. Anyhow, the simple theory they are presenting is that the oil filler cap test partly shows this problem. Guys, i am really really worried about this. The car performs really well, even i could see water droplets comming out from the exhaust.

I did my first service from toyota lanka today. They are also inconclusive about that, but they said that in the next time they can add a liquid to clear it to some extent. Is this a suitable remady for that?.

Guys, i will post some pictures soon.

regards

Mate. this is not a simple. clean your engine as soon as possible.

AMG · February 23, 2009

Nilantha said:
Mate. this is not a simple. clean your engine as soon as possible.

What is Visible to him is normal on Vios engine. Still he can go for a check up but don't say it is a sludge 100%.

vitz · February 23, 2009

machan, I rechecked the oil can, it is 10W-30.

Nilantha.... on what basis you are asking me to do an engine clean up. Have you got a similar experience?.

Fuzzo.... any idea

Anyhow, I will upload some shots.

Bharath said:
What is Visible to him is normal on Vios engine. Still he can go for a check up but don't say it is a sludge 100%.

fuzzo · February 23, 2009

i average around 1500k's a month on my car and to be honest i don't use the best oil. i just use the standard shell stuff which kleen park puts in.

just make sure you change your oil at the proper time intervals and you should be ok. the longer the oil stays in the engine, that's when the trouble starts.

AMG · February 23, 2009

fuzzo said:
just make sure you change your oil at the proper time intervals and you should be ok. the longer the oil stays in the engine, that's when the trouble starts.

Exactly said.

I too don't use synthetic oil. I use Mobil Super XHP Plus multigrade mineral oil having viscosity of 15W-40 and I know with this oil can run up to 6k but I change it as 4k or 3 months which ever comes first. But mostly the 3 months comes first.

Nilantha · February 23, 2009

vitz said:
machan, I rechecked the oil can, it is 10W-30.
Nilantha.... on what basis you are asking me to do an engine clean up. Have you got a similar experience?.

Fuzzo.... any idea

Anyhow, I will upload some shots.

You just go to popular garages and find out how many Vios and 121 engines have been swapped because of engine seized. Also rarely 5A engine also facing the same problem. My cousin brother had AE100 it had 5A engine. he wanted to swapped the engine because of the one piston seized. How come only one piston seized?

To clean the engine u have to spend around Rs.2000 and bit your time. Why do you take a risk for Rs.2000. if you may want to swap your engine, these days you have to append around Rs.100,000. You just go to wijerama and check prices for 121, vios engines. Because of this reason the engine prices also gone up.

So better you append Rs.2000 don’t you?

AMG · February 23, 2009

Nilantha said:
You just go to popular garages and find out how many Vios and 121 engines have been swapped because of engine seized. Also rarely 5A engine also facing the same problem. My cousin brother had AE100 it had 5A engine. he wanted to swapped the engine because of the one piston seized. How come only one piston seized?
To clean the engine u have to spend around Rs.2000 and bit your time. Why do you take a risk for Rs.2000. if you may want to swap your engine, these days you have to append around Rs.100,000. You just go to wijerama and check prices for 121, vios engines. Because of this reason the engine prices also gone up.

So better you append Rs.2000 don’t you?

Bro, don't always think that the only reason for an engine seize is oil sladge.

The engine will also seize if there is no water in the coolant system.

There are sludge issues with Totyota engines but not a lot like the way you mentioned.

Ruslan · February 23, 2009

Bharath said:
Exactly said.
I too don't use synthetic oil. I use Mobil Super XHP Plus multigrade mineral oil having viscosity of 15W-40 and I know with this oil can run up to 6k but I change it as 4k or 3 months which ever comes first. But mostly the 3 months comes first.

For VVT-i engines.. if it's maintained properly there shouldn't be any probs with sludge formations. i usually change oil in my car around 3500k interval. (SL is hot & humid country) and I'm using 15W 40 Mobil oil cos the engine is passing 100K Km mark. no sludge what so ever. herd that when people running on Synthetic oils and long oil changing intervals (Synthetics can run longer) can cause sludge on VVT-i engines. so better stick with Minerals plus shorter oil changing intervals..then you can keep you and your car healthier

Yellowish color inside Oil filler cap is normal.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Ruslan

Nilantha · February 24, 2009

Bharath said:
Bro, don't always think that the only reason for an engine seize is oil sladge.
The engine will also seize if there is no water in the coolant system.

There are sludge issues with Totyota engines but not a lot like the way you mentioned.

Here we are talking about sludge. Because of few cases pistons may be seized. Engine heat also a one thing. But we can see when engine more heatup. How? There is a temperature Gage for that purpose. But there is no Gage to display engine sludge build up isn’t it?

This is happen specially Toyota engines because I think piston lubrication paths of the Toyota engines my be small. When little sludge build up they can block by the sludge. Then lubrication system not works properly. Then piston gets seized.

Supra_Natural · February 24, 2009

Nilantha said:
Here we are talking about sludge. Because of few cases pistons may be seized. Engine heat also a one thing. But we can see when engine more heatup. How? There is a temperature Gage for that purpose. But there is no Gage to display engine sludge build up isn’t it?
This is happen specially Toyota engines because I think piston lubrication paths of the Toyota engines my be small. When little sludge build up they can block by the sludge. Then lubrication system not works properly. Then piston gets seized.

and once again you have demonstrated exactly the extent of your knowledge... tell me, do YOU use a vios? have you PERSONALLY run one over a period of time, done oil changes correctly, and seen sludge formation? Would really like to know if this is the case, or if it's simply another of your "Expert" opinions based on, as it usually turns out, not very much at all.

Do keep in mind the old adage "A fool looks the same as any other person, until he opens his mouth".

Nilantha · February 24, 2009

Supra_Natural said:
and once again you have demonstrated exactly the extent of your knowledge... tell me, do YOU use a vios? have you PERSONALLY run one over a period of time, done oil changes correctly, and seen sludge formation? Would really like to know if this is the case, or if it's simply another of your "Expert" opinions based on, as it usually turns out, not very much at all.
Do keep in mind the old adage "A fool looks the same as any other person, until he opens his mouth".

i never used vios or 121. but our company has vios. our transport manager did the engine cleanup because we bought singapore used vios. also toyota lanka recommended to do that so he did.

if you think u don't want to do clean up. you keep the engine as it is and run. do only oil change. if you think u no need to do oil change keep that also as it is and run you can have better performance.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Nilantha

AMG · February 24, 2009

Nilantha said:
Here we are talking about sludge. Because of few cases pistons may be seized. Engine heat also a one thing. But we can see when engine more heatup. How? There is a temperature Gage for that purpose. But there is no Gage to display engine sludge build up isn’t it?
This is happen specially Toyota engines because I think piston lubrication paths of the Toyota engines my be small. When little sludge build up they can block by the sludge. Then lubrication system not works properly. Then piston gets seized.

Here we are not talking about whether the Toyota engines getting sludge or why?

Simply go back to the start of the topic and the topic starter have seen a yellow deposit underneath the oil cap and he wants to know whether its a sludge. I personally owned a Vios and I noticed the same thing under the oil cap when the vehicle was only one year old with good maintenance and I personally checked it and it is normal and not a sludge. Because the visible area under neath the oil cap is like a cover and the oil doesn't flow through this part when the engine is running. Also Rulsan know much about Vios and he confirmed it that is not sludge and its normal for a Vios. Also Fuzzo.

So the out come is the Yellow deposit underneath the oil cap of a Vios 1NZ-FE 1500cc vvti engine is not a sludge. It is normal.

VVTi · February 24, 2009

Nilantha said:
You just go to popular garages and find out how many Vios and 121 engines have been swapped because of engine seized. Also rarely 5A engine also facing the same problem. My cousin brother had AE100 it had 5A engine. he wanted to swapped the engine because of the one piston seized. How come only one piston seized?
To clean the engine u have to spend around Rs.2000 and bit your time. Why do you take a risk for Rs.2000. if you may want to swap your engine, these days you have to append around Rs.100,000. You just go to wijerama and check prices for 121, vios engines. Because of this reason the engine prices also gone up.

So better you append Rs.2000 don’t you?

This is by far the craziest comment I have seen regarding the brilliant 1NZFE!!!! Please name one person who has had his engine seized! Sludge issue is not a chronic problem in these engines which requires anything but regular oil changes. You will get a small issue if you keep adding oil and all the XR1 muck in! As long as you put the recommended oil, change it on time and STOP adding every other performance enhancing additive in the market, you will be fine.

How do I know? Since 2001 I have been using, 1NZFE engine based vehicles, (Platz, 121, 122 and Vios) and none of them ever had any issues you claim to have had. And believe me, I have run in excess of 5000Kms a month on the 121 and the Platz with no 'sludge' problem, on both Ceypetco and Mobil 1

My advise is, Stay off the 1NZFE and let it do its job, open only to add water to the washer reservoir, check the fluid/oil levels or just to admire the engine!

The popular garages you talk about are the ones who has made a mess of this issue by poking their fingers in to things that they have no understanding of.

Edited February 24, 2009 by VVTi