Should I Be Worried: Engine Sludge (symptoms)

[Rohnd]

Thanks Rohnd,

One more clarification, you mentioned that shorter trips can enhance sludge formation. How it can happen. If somebody daily having short trips (as I am: 4 -5 km oneway), can he minimize the risk by having shorter oil + filter changes done at short intervals, say 3 months...

regards

vitz

Shorter trips tend to more carbon deposits before the normal engine temperature (also a incomplete combustion period) and with acids /chemicals/gums/water in the system, these deposits can form sludge. Yes - this also can be minimised with shorter draining intervals of oil/filter.

Shorter trips can be classified as 1- 4 Km runs. However howmany times (per day/month) you make these trips to be taken into consideration.

You said , you cleaned the stuff using a cloth. What were the products left on the cloth?. Is it in severe powdered/hard soot form?. If not you don't want to be warried. Thin orange colour is normal ,may be due to varnishes present in oils. I hope

you done this test with tappet cover open- unless you can't get a correct picture.

[JadeyBlitzen]

right! i think this is where i should step in. i havent serviced my vitz in 3 years and if there is going to be any sludge it should have formed by now. i've done 18k within that time period and i used fully synthetic oil (which i think u guys said isnt ideal in this scenario). so i guess this is the acid test. i'll probably start a topic of my own if there is any sludge formation. which i doubt.

however i think you guys are a bit overracting cos the 1nz is a fine engine. well its not as performance biased as a honda d series but surely engine sludge messing up the vvti cam gears is just hogwash. i mean if its the case all vvti equipped engines should suffer from the same problem (afaik the cam change is triggered by oil pressure on vvti).

so why dont we just treat it like a normal engine and see what happens? cos this is just overdoing the "prevention is better than cure" theory.

what worries me slightly however is the 1nz is the most popular vvti equipped engine in sri lanka. so maybe its common to all vvti equipped engines. its probably because of the big percentage of 1nzs that we blame just that engine.

[GearHead]

right! i think this is where i should step in. i havent serviced my vitz in 3 years and if there is going to be any sludge it should have formed by now. i've done 18k within that time period and i used fully synthetic oil (which i think u guys said isnt ideal in this scenario). so i guess this is the acid test. i'll probably start a topic of my own if there is any sludge formation. which i doubt.

so why dont we just treat it like a normal engine and see what happens? cos this is just overdoing the "prevention is better than cure" theory.

The reason why your engine has survived this long without any issue is clearly there in your post itself. Why would you say that fully synthetic motor oils lead to engine sludge issues? Synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperature and oxidation. Further it has more cleaning agents than petrolium based oils. VW is another brand which is prone to engine sludge issues. However, owners report that using fully synthetic motor oil and changing them at the right time is the way to go.

The reason why people in SL dont use fully synthetic motor oil is mainly bc of the price factor. Paying nearly 10K for a can of oil in SL....hmmm i dont need to continue, do I ..

[xXx]

Since the dealer gave me a 1 year grantee for the engine, I thought to wait till the next service and open the tapat cover and further explore the damage.....

so is the dealer going to foot the bill??? if so why wait, just take the car to a reputed mechanic and get it properly inspected. even though this thread has been very informative it seems to be going in circles and you have not made any progress since you posted this thread

[AMG]

The reason why your engine has survived this long without any issue is clearly there in your post itself. Why would you say that fully synthetic motor oils lead to engine sludge issues? Synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperature and oxidation. Further it has more cleaning agents than petrolium based oils. VW is another brand which is prone to engine sludge issues. However, owners report that using fully synthetic motor oil and changing them at the right time is the way to go.

The reason why people in SL dont use fully synthetic motor oil is mainly bc of the price factor. Paying nearly 10K for a can of oil in SL....hmmm i dont need to continue, do I ..

Machan lot of people do use Fully synthetic oil in sl who want to use it for performa cars and some ordinary cars too.

But the fact is, in SL, like an extreme hot whether, we need the oil change very often to protect the engine. As you know with the Fully synthetic oils you can run more than 20,000km but if you do that in sl think what would be the future of your motor?. So we prefer a good multi grade mineral or a semi synthetic oil and with at least 4000km oil change interval will be fine.

There are people in sl buy the fully synthetic oil for more than Rs10000 a can and do the oil change in 4000km which you don’t find abroad.

[GearHead]

I have used fully synthetics in SL with oil changes at every 10K to 12K kms, but didnt experience any negative impacts on the engine. Chemicals in petroleum based oils react with each other, which would eventually result in issues such as sludge, varnish, etc. This is one of the main reasons why petroleum based engine oils need more frequent oil changes. But if you switch to synthetics, you dont have to worry about any of this happening inside your engine. Just fill it up, use a good filter and then forget about oil changes for next 10k or 12k kms..

Edited February 28, 2009 by GearHead

[vitz]

Just an update for this thread:

I drove 5000 km already. No problems appeared....no oil lamp blinks......

My brother got a 121 from his office,,,, I saw the same brownish stuff just beneath the oil cap. It has done quite a milage without any problem.....

regards

vitz

[GihanFX]

Machan lot of people do use Fully synthetic oil in sl who want to use it for performa cars and some ordinary cars too.

But the fact is, in SL, like an extreme hot whether, we need the oil change very often to protect the engine. As you know with the Fully synthetic oils you can run more than 20,000km but if you do that in sl think what would be the future of your motor?. So we prefer a good multi grade mineral or a semi synthetic oil and with at least 4000km oil change interval will be fine.

There are people in sl buy the fully synthetic oil for more than Rs10000 a can and do the oil change in 4000km which you don’t find abroad.

Thats True, im also runing Shell Helix ultra 5W 40 and im chaging oil in every 5000km, but if i used this oil in another country i can run 10000+ also for the sludge issue at next engine oil change go with mobil XHP, after 500 Km ull see very cleen inside after u remove the oil cup

[vitz]

Guys,,

This post is related to the first post of this thread.

Yesterday I got a fully machanical check up of my car (toyota lanka, kurunegala). We opened the tappet cover also. There is a brownish stain in side also, but the technical manager told me it is not sludge. he also told me that I dont need to worry and he didnt see any use of cleaning the whole engine. Also, they often see these kind of cases.

He also showed me some photos of really sludge formed engine.

Guys, toyota lanka recommends 10000 km oil change intervals for semi-synthetic oil!!!!!. why is that. Yesterday, i saw even owners of new yaris cars (permit), stick to this recommendation. What is your openion on this.....

Thanks for all who responded to this post.

[Corolla121]

Specimen 01

this is our 121 Engine Cleaned by agents.

Specimen 03

this is our Vios not clean yet.

Specimen 05

posted by Vitz

now take decision by your self.

Man, Thats what you called sluge, you can see it around the cap hole. And its black , not brown. And the brown stuff around it is perfectly ok cos its due to oil vapor. But your newly cleaned ones doesnt show any brown stuff cos its cleaned recently.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Corolla121

[udayap]

Guys,

I am the person (vitz) who initiated this tread. However, I could not recover my account anymore.

While thanking for all, who replied for my post, just thought of sharing my own experience.

After purchase, I have driven my vios 43000 kms without any engine trouble. No complaints about fuel consumption. I only did timely servieces (5000 km intervel), used Toyota oil+Filter. Thats all.

Let me conclude that the minor deposition of brown colored materials in the surrounding area "interior" of oil cap, doesnot indicate a severe sludge build up

[blkr6]

Toyota did few mistakes around 1998-2003. first, they made the engine run little hotter to meet the emission requirements. second, they made the oil passages smaller . To keep it simple IF THE VEHICLE IS MAINTAINED ACCORDING TO THE TOYOTAS RECOMENDED INTERVALS you will never have a sludge issue. always change your oil on time with good quality oil. Using engine flushes will clean the engine but its not the best stuff for your rubber seals and gaskets. Change your PCV valve every year.

my dads van thats not maintained well by the previous owner

picture below is my car with the same engine that's always been maintained every 5k miles with good quality oil

[jehan80]

Guys,

I am the person (vitz) who initiated this tread. However, I could not recover my account anymore.

While thanking for all, who replied for my post, just thought of sharing my own experience.

After purchase, I have driven my vios 43000 kms without any engine trouble. No complaints about fuel consumption. I only did timely servieces (5000 km intervel), used Toyota oil+Filter. Thats all.

Let me conclude that the minor deposition of brown colored materials in the surrounding area "interior" of oil cap, doesnot indicate a severe sludge build up

Great to hear that! And thanks for taking the time to update on the issue you faced.

[ferrarif50]

Toyota did few mistakes around 1998-2003. first, they made the engine run little hotter to meet the emission requirements. second, they made the oil passages smaller . To keep it simple IF THE VEHICLE IS MAINTAINED ACCORDING TO THE TOYOTAS RECOMENDED INTERVALS you will never have a sludge issue. always change your oil on time with good quality oil. Using engine flushes will clean the engine but its not the best stuff for your rubber seals and gaskets. Change your PCV valve every year.

my dads van thats not maintained well by the previous owner

picture below is my car with the same engine that's always been maintained every 5k miles with good quality oil

what's the car and van?

[blkr6]

Toyota Sienna and a Avalon, Both shares the 1MZFE 3.0L V6 engine.

[jdnet]

Change your PCV valve every year.

you are kidding right?

[blkr6]

you are kidding right?

nope

[jdnet]

nope

Do us all a favour and keeep your bullsh*t advice to yourself ok? The pcv valve does not need to be changed every year. If you were to say "you should clean it out every year as preventative maintanence" then I would agree. Changing out the valve every year is just wastefull.

Oh yeah and don't come back saying "it's cheaper to change the part than have destroy your engine". It's b.s. If a part still has useable life left, then it's worth keeping, unless there's an appearent safety issue or it would be cheaper to change the part while you are fixing an existing problem, rather than replacing it later.

If your pcv valve gets destoryed every year, you have bigger things to worry about than replacing the valve.

[blkr6]

Do us all a favour and keeep your bullsh*t advice to yourself ok? The pcv valve does not need to be changed every year. If you were to say "you should clean it out every year as preventative maintanence" then I would agree. Changing out the valve every year is just wastefull.

Oh yeah and don't come back saying "it's cheaper to change the part than have destroy your engine". It's b.s. If a part still has useable life left, then it's worth keeping, unless there's an appearent safety issue or it would be cheaper to change the part while you are fixing an existing problem, rather than replacing it later.

If your pcv valve gets destoryed every year, you have bigger things to worry about than replacing the valve.

Toyota sludge prone engines first thing that clogs up is the PCV valve and rate of slugging up accelerate through the roof when the pcv is clogged. Don't try to be a smart ass if you are being such a cheapo. By cleaning the PCV how much money are you gonna save? who said pcv vales gets destroyed every year? i said "change the PCV every year", because you want to change or clean(whatever rocks your boat) before it gets clogged up. you must be few of those people clean the air filter and keep on reusing for years just to save a penny. cleaning and changing the PCV has the same outcome which is keeping it from clogging. You are talking shit for the sake of talking shit!!! Do us all a favour and keeep your bullsh*t to yourself ok?

Edited March 16, 2012 by blkr6

[jdnet]

Toyota sludge prone engines first thing that clogs up is the PCV valve and rate of slugging up accelerate through the roof when the pcv is clogged. Don't try to be a smart ass if you are being such a cheapo. By cleaning the PCV how much money are you gonna save? who said pcv vales gets destroyed every year? i said "change the PCV every year", because you want to change or clean(whatever rocks your boat) before it gets clogged up. you must be few of those people clean the air filter and keep on reusing for years just to save a penny. cleaning and changing the PCV has the same outcome which is keeping it from clogging. You are talking shit for the sake of talking shit!!! Do us all a favour and keeep your bullsh*t to yourself ok?

Listen, it must be great learning to change break pads all by yourself. Good job. It doesn't mean you know crap about cars. Changing out an air filter and a pcv valve are two different things. For the records i've never reused an airfilter. That would be an idiotic assumption. If you thought cleaning the pcv was ok, then why not say it instead of asking people to change it out every year without even asking them to inspect it first? I'm yet to see a car where you need to change pcv valves as often as you say. Sludge or no sludge. The better solution for sludge prone engines is to combat th sludge by doing more frequent oil changes. If there is so much sludge that it's blocking the pcv valve, then changing the valve will not do anything to stop the root cause of the problem and you are basically masking the problem. Asking people to do that is generally idiotic.

Why don't you let the men talk about cars and you can talk about your POS "cafe racers" and crashing your motorcycle ok?

Awaiting your bullsh*t reply...

Edited March 17, 2012 by jdnet

[blkr6]

Listen, it must be great learning to change break pads all by yourself. Good job. It doesn't mean you know crap about cars. Changing out an air filter and a pcv valve are two different things. For the records i've never reused an airfilter. That would be an idiotic assumption. If you thought cleaning the pcv was ok, then why not say it instead of asking people to change it out every year without even asking them to inspect it first? I'm yet to see a car where you need to change pcv valves as often as you say. Sludge or no sludge. The better solution for sludge prone engines is to combat th sludge by doing more frequent oil changes. If there is so much sludge that it's blocking the pcv valve, then changing the valve will not do anything to stop the root cause of the problem and you are basically masking the problem. Asking people to do that is generally idiotic.

Why don't you let the men talk about cars and you can talk about your POS "cafe racers" and crashing your motorcycle ok?

Awaiting your bullsh*t reply...

you make me laugh man. you are one of the biggest PMS vagina's i have seen. have you checked between your legs lately? real men don't talk shit. this whole post you are just rewording the exact things i said. real men gives constructive criticism not your smart ass stupid comments. you are a woman if you haven't notice, because women go all over to prove a stupid point.... brakes, bikes, cafe racers bla blaa bla bla who gives a .........

i say: always change your oil on time with good quality oil.

you say:The better solution for sludge prone engines is to combat the sludge by doing more frequent oil changes

i say:Change your PCV valve every year

you say:If you were to say "you should clean it out every year as preventative maintanence" then I would agree

thank you for making my boring day fun day while making your self an idiot.

Edited March 17, 2012 by blkr6

[jdnet]

you make me laugh man. you are one of the biggest PMS vagina's i have seen. have you checked between your legs lately? real men don't talk shit. this whole post you are just rewording the exact things i said. real men gives constructive criticism not your smart ass stupid comments. you are a woman if you haven't notice, because women go all over to prove a stupid point.... brakes, bikes, cafe racers bla blaa bla bla who gives a .........

i say: always change your oil on time with good quality oil.

you say:The better solution for sludge prone engines is to combat the sludge by doing more frequent oil changes

i say:Change your PCV valve every year

you say:If you were to say "you should clean it out every year as preventative maintanence" then I would agree

thank you for making my boring day fun day while making your self an idiot.

sweetheart,

my point is that changing a pcv valve each year is wastefull and only a dumdass would do it. Sure it doesn't cost much, but change every little part and the costs will add up. Anyway have fun crashing bikes and posting advice on how to avoid it.

Take care baby.

[blkr6]

sweetheart,

my point is that changing a pcv valve each year is wastefull and only a dumdass would do it. Sure it doesn't cost much, but change every little part and the costs will add up. Anyway have fun crashing bikes and posting advice on how to avoid it.

Take care baby.

i see that you are not only a cheapo but also a full blown homosexual. i will have fun crashing bikes because its part of riding motorcycles eventhough you never predicts it. next time please use gloves and maskes when you handling chemicals because we really dont wanna hear how stupid someone can be.

Edited March 19, 2012 by blkr6

[Pericles]

Chill boys. Lets not let this get outta hand here.

[aroshana]

every time i went to pi**top for 5000km service they are telling that there is sludge and engine must be flushed..

milage = 145k

model = nissan n17(2003 b/n)

what i have heard is that this flush is not good for the engine???is it true? shall i flush the engine?

Edited March 19, 2012 by aroshana