Second-hand Car Market: Myth And Manipulation????

[isurujosh]

But if you want your apples to apples comparison, Madmax owned both my VZR and a 1800 Civic SiR Sedan at the same time. He said the 1800 did much better on fuel. The SiR engine (I forget the designation) is also a performance optimized engine. Happy now?

if it's VZR N1 then it is good for 196hp out of 1.6 L. SiR is good for only 165hp from the same 1.6L. that isn't exactly what I call "apples to apples comparision". VzR N1 is more performance biased than SiR.

I agree your sentiments on gearing and is a very good point to bring up in this discussion but I failed to see anything to the extent of "gearing" being mentioned in your original post that prompted my response. now that you explained, I understand.

[Pericles]

if it's VZR N1 then it is good for 196hp out of 1.6 L. SiR is good for only 165hp from the same 1.6L. that isn't exactly what I call "apples to apples comparision". VzR N1 is more performance biased than SiR.

I agree your sentiments on gearing and is a very good point to bring up in this discussion but I failed to see anything to the extent of "gearing" being mentioned in your original post that prompted my response. now that you explained, I understand.

I didn't bring up gearing on purpose. The point is, engine CC and weight isn't the sole determinant. Over the long run, even the drag co-efficient has an small effect. Not in city running, but it does on long distance.

Also you seem to miss the fact that I said 1800. Thats 1.8l. And they weren't completely stock. And that Civic has beaten the VZR in drags. Old time history.

[Sylvi]

I didn't bring up gearing on purpose. The point is, engine CC and weight isn't the sole determinant. Over the long run, even the drag co-efficient has an small effect. Not in city running, but it does on long distance.

Also you seem to miss the fact that I said 1800. Thats 1.8l. And they weren't completely stock. And that Civic has beaten the VZR in drags. Old time history.

Sir,

Opinions differ.

Wijesinghe.

[isurujosh]

I didn't bring up gearing on purpose. The point is, engine CC and weight isn't the sole determinant. Over the long run, even the drag co-efficient has an small effect. Not in city running, but it does on long distance.

Also you seem to miss the fact that I said 1800. Thats 1.8l. And they weren't completely stock. And that Civic has beaten the VZR in drags. Old time history.

pitting the two cars in the stock specs i.e. with 1.6L was a deliberate attempt by me to draw attention to the underlying genetics of the two cars. i think trying to squeeze 200hp from a 1.6L n.a. engine will have to forego more fuel economy than trying to do the same from 1.8L n.a. engine. i think now we are on to whole different topic, that is an engine being "under-displaced" to meet a specific power target. you tried to bring up madmax's SiR and VzR as a potential apple-to-apple comparision, i think that isn't quite so. that is what i was on about.

[shanX]

Also you seem to miss the fact that I said 1800. Thats 1.8l. And they weren't completely stock. And that Civic has beaten the VZR in drags. Old time history.

Just curious, I know this specific car, are you sure that car is 1.8L? I guess it should be 1.6L

[Pericles]

pitting the two cars in the stock specs i.e. with 1.6L was a deliberate attempt by me to draw attention to the underlying genetics of the two cars. i think trying to squeeze 200hp from a 1.6L n.a. engine will have to forego more fuel economy than trying to do the same from 1.8L n.a. engine. i think now we are on to whole different topic, that is an engine being "under-displaced" to meet a specific power target. you tried to bring up madmax's SiR and VzR as a potential apple-to-apple comparision, i think that isn't quite so. that is what i was on about.

Seems more like a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the issue, unless you lost track of what was being discussed.

Someone said : lower cc = better fuel economy always.

You said : lower cc can = better fuel economy if you consider weight, ie. its based on power to weight

I said : not always the case. Provided examples.

I don't care how many "I think"s you include or how you try to twist the issue. I'm not in a running argument. A higher cc car CAN provide better fuel economy than a lower one, even if all else IS equal. How many 1600 Corolla's do you think can sustain 17kmpl on the long distance running like that 1800 Luxel did?

[isurujosh]

Seems more like a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the issue, unless you lost track of what was being discussed.

Someone said : lower cc = better fuel economy always.

You said : lower cc can = better fuel economy if you consider weight, ie. its based on power to weight

I said : not always the case. Provided examples.

I don't care how many "I think"s you include or how you try to twist the issue. I'm not in a running argument. A higher cc car CAN provide better fuel economy than a lower one, even if all else IS equal. How many 1600 Corolla's do you think can sustain 17kmpl on the long distance running like that 1800 Luxel did?

hic! you first tried to prove a point by first comparing a corolla and a vzr and then a modified SiR and a VZR.

Edited May 7, 2010 by isurujosh

[kaushama]

Well! It is very likely that the government is going to reduce the taxes below 1600cc. Even people working at major car import establishments say that. But car market is on the rise still.

Difficult to understand!

Below 3 mil cars has gone up by good 2 or 3 lakhs.

If taxes go down people who buy these days bound to loose some money?

Edited May 7, 2010 by kaushama

[Elvis_Pil]

It had a stroker kit

Just curious, I know this specific car, are you sure that car is 1.8L? I guess it should be 1.6L

[shanX]

It had a stroker kit

Ohh, that explains, also means newly rebuilt engine, which should offer better MPG anyways..

[Edward]

Well! It is very likely that the government is going to reduce the taxes below 1600cc. Even people working at major car import establishments say that. But car market is on the rise still.

Difficult to understand!

Below 3 mil cars has gone up by good 2 or 3 lakhs.

If taxes go down people who buy these days bound to loose some money?

Hi But I think there will no announcement till the government submits the budget in November. Please review the link

http://in.reuters.com/article/domesticNews...0100429?sp=true

[kalana]

hmm....

what our people think about this engine cc is so different..

i saw a nice cefiro on adds and my uncle said "ooooh no u will have to buy a petrol bowser attached to it "

i think that MPG will be little bit more in cefiro than a normal 1.5l car. but when comparing to the comfortability and the price,i think its worth it..

[isurujosh]

hmm....

what our people think about this engine cc is so different..

i saw a nice cefiro on adds and my uncle said "ooooh no u will have to buy a petrol bowser attached to it "

i think that MPG will be little bit more in cefiro than a normal 1.5l car. but when comparing to the comfortability and the price,i think its worth it..

both pradfres's and my cefiro automatics do about 7.5 km per liter in usual rush hour traffic. today i even recorded 7.2 for the past couple of weeks where the traffic was so bad due to weather.

[harshansenadhir]

car market is now filled with absurdly priced wrecks. Saw a '96 110 L grade with non english plates asking price was 1.99 mil!! saw a FB15 Super Saloon, a wreck, accidents all around the body, paint patches like as if hand painted, GY plates and white color, asking 1.79 mil. This was for a friend of my brother and I told the bugger to wait till market settles down.

I seriously don't see any rationale behind this sudden shoot up, unless otherwise someone (car sales??) trying to artificially manipulated the market, so once import tax lifted, it'll settle down at where it was rather than going down from where it was.

[lasi]

car market is now filled with absurdly priced wrecks. Saw a '96 110 L grade with non english plates asking price was 1.99 mil!! saw a FB15 Super Saloon, a wreck, accidents all around the body, paint patches like as if hand painted, GY plates and white color, asking 1.79 mil. This was for a friend of my brother and I told the bugger to wait till market settles down.

I seriously don't see any rationale behind this sudden shoot up, unless otherwise someone (car sales??) trying to artificially manipulated the market, so once import tax lifted, it'll settle down at where it was rather than going down from where it was.

This is truely an artificial manipulation of the market. Who will buy 1999 FB15 for 1.75 M? I don't think anybody will buy. poor car sellers....

[harshansenadhir]

Who will buy 1999 FB15 for 1.75 M? I don't think anybody will buy. poor car sellers....

in contrary, there are people out there who has bought, and will continue to buy. If there weren't any buyers would the sellers quote high prices? Remember, market equilibrium is where demand meets the supply.

[kaushama]

in contrary, there are people out there who has bought, and will continue to buy. If there weren't any buyers would the sellers quote high prices? Remember, market equilibrium is where demand meets the supply.

Yes people, who need to buy a car badly and quickly, would buy for these absurd prices. So there is always a market. And many people believe the stories told by car sale owners. And this scaremongering will prompt people to sell their cars for absurd prices as well. Clever people know this is the time to sell their cars. When car sale owners are told that import tax may come down soon below 1600cc, they say that it will be only for cars below 1000cc. And they say taxes will further go up for other classes.

Influx of cars into north and east have created another market for these monsters to flourish.

I have seen very good example of manipulation by car sale owners recently. Cars on Sunday paper adverts vanish very quickly in the morning and I have seen several cars meeting the same description in sales few days after for higher prices than those quoted by original owners.

Secondhand car market has stuck by "middleman syndrome" now!

Edited May 19, 2010 by kaushama

[isurujosh]

i don't think the current prices are over inflated given the amount of money or credit available with people and the lack of supply of cars to the market. if the government keep on printing more money to cover up the deficit then we shall see the prices edging even higher. this is simple economics. unless the tax for below 1600cc cars reduces dramatically i cant see the prices going down at all. i don't see a likelyhood of tax for below 1600cc cars reducing "significantly" too.

[Killer-B]

car market is now filled with absurdly priced wrecks. Saw a '96 110 L grade with non english plates asking price was 1.99 mil!! saw a FB15 Super Saloon, a wreck, accidents all around the body, paint patches like as if hand painted, GY plates and white color, asking 1.79 mil. This was for a friend of my brother and I told the bugger to wait till market settles down.

I seriously don't see any rationale behind this sudden shoot up, unless otherwise someone (car sales??) trying to artificially manipulated the market, so once import tax lifted, it'll settle down at where it was rather than going down from where it was.

I have also been looking to buy a car since april.......... most probably when the prices skyrocketed just before elections i guess....... I have almost given up now.... I found that it is very difficult to find a good unit, even if there was one, it is unbelievably overpriced.

Seems like cars are very close to become extinct here...... people dont want to sell their car specially if they are in good shape. so most of the available cars are nothing but crap!

So I decided to wait wait and wait for the market to settle down but still I need a car very badly.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Killer-B

[samanp]

In the same boat of Killer-B, waiting for car prices to comedown. However I think "isurujosh" is right and don't see car prices (or taxes) coming down anytime soon.

Other thing is in SL any price that goes up (with or without a reason) is not coming down

[kaushama]

I think I am going to grab a good unit once I come across one irrespective of price. I have missed few chances to buy couple of good ES8 units and I thought they were overpriced then. But those prices seems to be reasonable at present standards. I have seen such a wreck today and the person quoted 2.85 mil. I wouldn't have bought it even for 2.2 mil few months back. Toyota 121s have sky rocketed in price. I have sold mine for just 2.5 mil three years back. I could have sold it easily for 3.5 mil today. Absurd!

[Killer-B]

I think I am going to grab a good unit once I come across one irrespective of price. I have missed few chances to buy couple of good ES8 units and I thought they were overpriced then. But those prices seems to be reasonable at present standards. I have seen such a wreck today and the person quoted 2.85 mil. I wouldn't have bought it even for 2.2 mil few months back. Toyota 121s have sky rocketed in price. I have sold mine for just 2.5 mil three years back. I could have sold it easily for 3.5 mil today. Absurd!

I have a similar mindset now...... We have to somehow live with this.... I dont think the prices are gonna come down anytime soon and even if they do it wont be much........ so its better to get your hands on a good car irrespective of the price.

I have missed some good opportunities too...... now I feel bad about it..... a car in good condition sell very quickly regardless of being overpriced these days...

[Killer-B]

In the same boat of Killer-B, waiting for car prices to comedown. However I think "isurujosh" is right and don't see car prices (or taxes) coming down anytime soon.

Other thing is in SL any price that goes up (with or without a reason) is not coming down

I decided to quit waiting for the market to settle brov....... I dont think the prices are come down anytime soon... So try and negotiate as much as you can if you come across a good car.

[xXx]

Don't you boys read newspapers or have the slightest idea on the co-relation between politics and economy???

There has been wide publicity on the governments decision not to forward a budget for this year meaning there won't be any new economic policies for this whole year. Meaning even if the cabinet decide to reduce the tax rate for motorcars most probably it won't be implemented till next years budget. And we are looking at atleast 10 - 12 months.

To the wise gentleman who said this is a good time to sell, what are you planning on doing after selling your car? Catch public transport hoping for the market to settle down? You try that and let me know how that worked out for you.

As i've said before current price bubble is due to the scarcity of cars in the market. Due to the tax reduction and permit rumors car imports have come to a halt. Plus back in the days there was a segment of people who used to change their car every 3-5 years. But due to the constant increase in the price has reduced the number of people in that category. Thus drying out the number of cars available for sale.

[isurujosh]

Don't you boys read newspapers or have the slightest idea on the co-relation between politics and economy???

There has been wide publicity on the governments decision not to forward a budget for this year meaning there won't be any new economic policies for this whole year. Meaning even if the cabinet decide to reduce the tax rate for motorcars most probably it won't be implemented till next years budget. And we are looking at atleast 10 - 12 months.

To the wise gentleman who said this is a good time to sell, what are you planning on doing after selling your car? Catch public transport hoping for the market to settle down? You try that and let me know how that worked out for you.

As i've said before current price bubble is due to the scarcity of cars in the market. Due to the tax reduction and permit rumors car imports have come to a halt. Plus back in the days there was a segment of people who used to change their car every 3-5 years. But due to the constant increase in the price has reduced the number of people in that category. Thus drying out the number of cars available for sale.