Formula 1 - 2012

[MasterDon]

Webber to stay at RBR for 2013 http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7886254/Webber-s-2013-Deal-Signed-And-Sealed

I cannot seems to understand the penalty criteria of FIA, see last time when Pasta & Hamilton crashed in Valencia no one was fined, but this time Pasta was fined for Euro 10k... kind of inconsistency don’t you think?

I think the stewards took in to consideration his actions earlier in he season also.The crash at Silverstone was much more of a racing incident compared to the others Maldo was involved in.But he stewards needed to lay down a marker of sorts for him and say his style is a bit too aggressive and to tone it down,hence the fine.

[miniace]

I cannot seems to understand the penalty criteria of FIA, see last time when Pasta & Hamilton crashed in Valencia no one was fined, but this time Pasta was fined for Euro 10k... kind of inconsistency don’t you think?

I think you were not seriously following Maldonado episodes.

He was a good GP2 champion boy, but his short F1 career has been littered with ugly incidents cost him many penalties. Post Valencia he was given a time penalty that cost him the point earned from Valencia. Before that he collected three grid penalties from two races if im not mistaken. One was for colliding with Perez during Monaco practices.

Maldonado is accused of lacking respect towards fellow drivers.

MINIACE

[MasterDon]

Hockenheim qualy results.Webber,Grosjean and Rosberg will start 5 places back for gearbox changes tomorrow...

01 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:40.621

02 Sebastian Vettel R*D B*LL 1:41.026 0.405

03 Mark Webber R*D B*LL 1:41.496 0.875

04 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:42.459 1.838

05 Nico Hulkenberg Force India 1:43.501 2.880

06 Pastor Maldonado Williams 1:43.950 3.329

07 Jenson Button McLaren 1:44.113 3.492

08 Lewis Hamilton McLaren 1:44.186 3.565

09 Paul di Resta Force India 1:44.889 4.268

10 Kimi Raikkonen Lotus 1:45.811 5.190

11 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1:39789

12 Sergio Perez Sauber 1:39.933

13 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 1:39.985

14 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:40.212

15 Romain Grosjean Lotus 1:40.574

16 Bruno Senna Williams 1:40.752

17 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:41.551

18 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso 1:16.741

19 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham 1:17.620

20 Vitaly Petrov Caterham 1:18.531

21 Charles Pic Marussia 1:19.220

22 Timo Glock Marussia 1:19.291

23 Pedro de la Rosa HRT 1:19.912

24 Narain Karthikeyan HRT 1:20.230

Also check out this great BBC documentary on legendary car designer Gordon Murray.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wofx5I9SueA

Edited July 21, 2012 by MasterDon

[Simplelife]

Woohooo! Alonso won this years German GP! and finished a perfect race for Ferrari. Good to see old Button back in action after sometime. He would have taken the 2nd placed if not for that Vettle over take maneuver in the 65th lap

[Clark's son]

Nice overtaking by Hamilton, showing that although he was a lap down he shouldn't be considered a black marker.

and this might have saved Alonso's day by taking Vettel out of the DRS zone.

Although I'm anything but a Vettel fan I must admit that Vettel done the right thing in his overtaking maneuver in lap 65,

if he was another Malvanado he wouldn't have gone wide and destroyed both his and Button's chances of going to the podium

[vishkid]

Thrilled for Alonso and Scud! Intrigued to hear that RBR car is (again) pushing the boundaries of the F1 rule book. They've done it persistently over the last two years and netted 2 championships .. but those mostly came from the consistent driving from the young german. Makes you wonder if RBR are the the only team to do this time and again or are they the only team to be reported in the media?

[Watchman]

Nice overtaking by Hamilton, showing that although he was a lap down he shouldn't be considered a black marker.

and this might have saved Alonso's day by taking Vettel out of the DRS zone.

Although I'm anything but a Vettel fan I must admit that Vettel done the right thing in his overtaking maneuver in lap 65,

if he was another Malvanado he wouldn't have gone wide and destroyed both his and Button's chances of going to the podium

Well,technically it is breaking the rules. It's no different from taking a U-turn over the grass without even reaching the apex. If you dont have room to overtake, hold back.

Anyway lets see what the stewards say.

[Simplelife]

^{Stewards has made the right decision, 20 sec penalty for that overtake for Vettle. Which mean Button is 2nd and Kimi takes the 3rd place}

^{http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/07/22/vettel-demoted-20second-penalty/}

[The Stig]

^{Stewards has made the right decision, 20 sec penalty for that overtake for Vettle. Which mean Button is 2nd and Kimi takes the 3rd place}

^{http://www.f1fanatic...second-penalty/}

Thats a bit of a tough call i must say, it was on a hair pin and the understeer took him out and he also had to evade button who was trying to come back on the inside. From my point of view i think if vettel didnt cross the apex chances are that the two would have probably crashed.

Any idea of a penalty on hamilton for the overtaking ? IMHO thats a big unnecessary risk, it wasnt like hami was gonna score any championship points anyway.

[terrabytetango]

I believe back markers are supposed to give way to anyone who is lapping them, the obvious reason being that they're slower than the cars they are being lapped by (obviously). However, a back marker has every right to overtake any car ahead of them if opportunity presents itself, and new for this year, they can unlap themselves when the safety car is out. If overtaking by back markers wasn't allowed, Hamilton's DRS would not have activated. Also I don't remember seeing any blue flags out for Hamilton indicating to him to stay out of the leaders' way.

[Simplelife]

Any idea of a penalty on hamilton for the overtaking ? IMHO thats a big unnecessary risk, it wasnt like hami was gonna score any championship points anyway.

No penalty for Hamilton for overtaking Vettle as it is not against the law AFAIK... but surely it did help Alonso to gain some lap time...

[miniace]

German Grand Prix: Hamilton slams Vettel as fallout turns into public spat

London: Last Updated: Monday, July 23, 2012, 12:59

Formula One champion Sebastian Vettel’s quest to win his home race went unfulfilled once again and he was demoted from second place to fifth for an illegal overtake on Jenson Button in a dramatic penultimate lap at the German Grand Prix.

Lewis Hamilton branded Vettel immature as tempers boiled over when the F1 champion was demoted for illegally overtaking at Hockenheim.

Earlier, the R*D B*LL racer waved an arm in frustration at Button’s teammate as Hamilton tried to unlap himself and started mixing it with the race leaders.

“It’s a bit stupid to disturb the leaders. He was a lap down so I don’t see the point. That potentially lost us the position to Jenson. That wasn’t nice of him,” said Vettel.

He added: “Why was he trying to race us? If he wants to go fast he can drop back find a gap and go faster there.”

Hamilton was in no mood to concede the point. “It doesn’t really bother me what he says. I guess. It shows his maturity.”

“I don’t think I’ve made any silly decisions throughout the race. I had nothing to gain apart from staying out of the way of my teammate. I never give up, so I’m not going to back off and let everyone past me when I’ve got the pace to go past the guy in front.”

Vettel’s frustration was unleashed partly because he lost second place to Button by little more than a car’s length as he roared out from his second stop.

Zeenews.com

MINIACE

[Clark's son]

I believe back markers are supposed to give way to anyone who is lapping them, the obvious reason being that they're slower than the cars they are being lapped by (obviously). However, a back marker has every right to overtake any car ahead of them if opportunity presents itself, and new for this year, they can unlap themselves when the safety car is out. If overtaking by back markers wasn't allowed, Hamilton's DRS would not have activated. Also I don't remember seeing any blue flags out for Hamilton indicating to him to stay out of the leaders' way.

Vettel and Alonso were the ones who should have been asked to stay out of hami's way because he was about 1sec a lap faster than them at that time with the new tiers.

[isurujosh]

way to go hammy! i like your spirit.

[GTAm]

While I agree that penalizing Hamilton would have been quite harsh, I think Hamilton could have chosen a better place to pass Vettel given his much better tyres, the same way Maldo could have on Ham in the previous race. You could argue that he did what he did to help his team-mate, but I doubt he is capable of that kind of thinking. At least he's never showed it before, unless the team gave him a signal. The joke is that he calls Vettel immature. That's like the Sunday Observer saying that the Sunday Leader is a highly biased newspaper.

Vettel can argue about avoiding collision but I'd say rules are rules.

All in all another great race that showed Nando's talent. I really thought if it was a dry race that RdBul will snatch it. But Fernando did just enough. German fans were a bit subdued when he took the chequered flag I thought

[miniace]

F1 seeks computer rule change on R*D B*LL

Formula 1 bosses are working to introduce a rule change to outlaw controversial engine settings on the R*D B*LL.

The issue arose at Sunday's German GP and was discussed at a meeting of senior officials on Monday.

Redbull were cleared by race stewards after accusations by governing body the FIA of running illegal engine settings.

The FIA is trying to produce a rule clarification in time for this weekend's Hungarian Grand Prix.

But it wants to ensure any rule change does not lead to other problems and no decision has yet been made on whether that will be possible.

It is unlikely there will be a decision before the end of Wednesday.

The row revolves around an immensely complicated issue to do with the computer settings - so-called maps - that control the amount of torque delivered by the engine in various conditions.

he FIA's concern is that R*D B*LL and engine manufacturer Renault are using reduced torque settings for a given engine speed. These act as a form of traction control, limiting wheelspin out of corners.

Governing body the FIA found that R*D B*LL's engine was delivering less torque at full throttle in the mid-range of the engine's rev band in Germany than it had at the preceding British Grand Prix.

They said this was a breach of article 5.5.3 of the technical regulations, which states that the "maximum accelerator travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or greater than the maximum engine torque at the measured engine speed".

The verdict on Sunday said: "While the stewards do not accept all the arguments of the team, they however conclude that as the regulation is written the map presented does not breach article 5.5.3 of the technical regulations."

The idea of the rule is to prevent the engine delivering less power to the wheels than it can do, as doing so is a form of traction control, which is banned.

However, teams are allowed to change their engine maps from race to race - and R*D B*LL were cleared because there was no definition of how big these changes could be before they were not allowed.

The FIA is aiming to close that loophole.

If it succeeds, it will be a simple matter for R*D B*LL to switch back to an earlier map than the one they used in Germany.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18957915

MINIACE

[Pericles]

MINIACE

Interesting. I didn't see the race, but I saw the move on youtube. Button gets at least two twitches from the back of his car coming out of the corner while Vettel goes around him. Unusual with Buttons rep as a smooth driver. He must have been trying to feed in more power as Seb was passing him.

[terrabytetango]

Anyone remember when Schumi was driving for Benetton and there was a similar fiasco involving traction control and ABS?

[miniace]

Anyone remember when Schumi was driving for Benetton and there was a similar fiasco involving traction control and ABS?

Yes that was in 1994 if im not mistaken..Shumy and Benetton alleged to use an illegal sofware to enhance traction and ABS but FIA failed to punish Benetton. Benetton was again found to have an illegal refuelling probe same year which lead to pit fire during a pit stop ,Driver was Verstappen.Please correct me if im wrong. 1994 was a year full of illegal F1 activities and FIA blunders. Probably the darkest year of F1.Lost lives of Senna and Ratzenberger too.

MINIACE

[Gummybr]

I believe Vettel left too much for too late. After he came out of the last pit stop he nearly let go of the race by not challenging the two guys in front although he had the speed. He built up the momentum on the last lap and had a go at Button on corner which requires you to have loads of grip to overtake (if you see how Webber overtook on that corner you will see how the grip assisted him out of the corner faster and he had the inside line).

Rules must be rules but I believe he was served with injustice on that overtaking manouvre. If it was another driver he would have cut across and destroyed the race for both, but he opted to go off track so not to end the race for both.

On the ECU mapping issue; looks like everyone is against RBR. If their car is fast then they have gone over the rules.

[vishkid]

Well RBR pushed the rules to limit over the last couple of years, it's not the fault of the RBR but of FIA for leaving ambiguity to exploit. Many-a-door was closed after RBR gained advantage and moved on. Also other teams cannot fault RBR for doing it first, but I can certainly see their argument on continuously not pushing the envelope of legality or ethicality or whatchmacallit!

[Clark's son]

Is there any special site that where I can find the repeat of the F1 Qualifying,

I got to go for an argent matter today and there is no repeat of the quali in star sports because of the bloody Olympics.

[The Stig]

WTF no F1 qualifying ?

http://www.espnstar.com/tv-listings/region1/day1/

Site says its at 5.25 but starsports is showing the bloody olympics

[vishkid]

No Qualifying/repeat, race day or chequered flag on telly for us Only olympics.

Since they hv 3 general sports channels one can hope that they could manage to find space - but not to be!

It's mainly because the bloody indians want to see their archers shoot repeat 7's

[The Stig]

It's mainly because the bloody indians want to see their archers shoot repeat 7's

For a country that has a population of 1.2 Billion people their performance at all sport are pretty pathetic, just goes to show its not a matter of quantity but of quality

On a side note i watched the qualifiers yesterday from streaming, in case star sports in their infinite wisdom decide not to show the GP live today here is the link (http://www.vipbox.tv/sports/motorsports.html)