Hybrids...do We Really Need Them?

[terrabytetango]

Of course they're being guinea pigs. The whole electric/hybrid bandwagon is just a huge dog and pony show using a lot of smoke and mirrors. Asking "do we really need Hybrids?" is so ambiguous you might as well ask "do we really need fuel efficient cars?".

[Californikan]

Of course they're being guinea pigs. The whole electric/hybrid bandwagon is just a huge dog and pony show using a lot of smoke and mirrors.

?? Would you please elaborate and explain what you mean by this .

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Edited March 24, 2012 by Californikan

[terrabytetango]

?? Would you please elaborate and explain what you mean by this .

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I'm pretty sure you understand the gist of it. You'll be biased and irrational no matter how well put together an argument is, therefore I will pass on your invitation and instead go to bed.

[The Stig]

I'm pretty sure you understand the gist of it. You'll be biased and irrational no matter how well put together an argument is, therefore I will pass on your invitation and instead go to bed.

Forget it, you will be better off explaining all this to a brick wall. Actually come to think of it the brick wall might actually understand it better

[Californikan]

I'm pretty sure you understand the gist of it. You'll be biased and irrational no matter how well put together an argument is, therefore I will pass on your invitation and instead go to bed.

Hey man, if you write something you should be willing to explain it and defend it. Otherwise you're just talking out of your ass. If it's a good argument, it will hold against counter arguments. If it doesn't hold, that's great too.....you just learned something new.

I really didn't get the gist of what you were wrote, but I just looked up dog and pony show and now I do. All I'll say is your argument is built on quicksand because of at least one very simple and very basic reason.

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Edited March 24, 2012 by Californikan

[terrabytetango]

[jdnet]

Hey man, if you write something you should be willing to explain it and defend it. Otherwise you're just talking out of your ass. If it's a good argument, it will hold against counter arguments. If it doesn't hold, that's great too.....you just learned something new.

I really didn't get the gist of what you were wrote, but I just looked up dog and pony show and now I do. All I'll say is your argument is built on quicksand because of at least one very simple and very basic reason.

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Really? He is the one talking out of his ass?

[Scooter]

Love Scotty's take on the ownership costs on older Prius hybrids. Might (grammar note: using might for possibility ) just be lucky that we're not importing these junkers to SL.

It's stuff like this that seems to keep folk - except for the socks and sandals brigade - world-wide away from buying second-hand hybrids.

[Californikan]

Form a Sri Lankan and environmental perspective - Hybrids matter jack shit. Our emissions are so low that a Sri Lanka full of gas guzzling and smoke belching vehicles would not even exceed a single US city limited to hybrids and electrical vehicles.

Absolutely not true. The street level air pollution in Colombo is MUCH MUCH worse than any U.S. city including Los Angeles.

The reason Colombo has worse pollution is simple. The American govt had the foresight to require strict emission controls on vehicles and a vehicle emissions testing system starting back in 1966. And every few years since 1966, those emissions standards have become more stringent. When did emissions standards and testing in SL begin? Just 4 years ago in 2008.

So the black smoke and soot belching cars, vans, buses and lorries that are common on SL roads is a very rare and unusual sight on U.S. roads. When one walks on Galle road there is constant smoke and soot belching from vehicles with no emissions controls. When one walks on the road in an American city there is hugely lower levels of emissions coming out of the tailpipes of vehicles.

By the way, Colombo recently got rated worse than Bangkok for air pollution. And Bangkok used to be one of the most air polluted cities in the world. How did the Thais clean up the air in Bangkok? Mostly through lower emissions vehicles.

[Crosswind]

Absolutely not true. The street level air pollution in Colombo is MUCH MUCH worse than any U.S. city including Los Angeles.

So the black smoke and soot belching cars, vans, buses and lorries that are common on SL roads is a very rare and unusual sight on U.S. roads. When one walks on Galle road there is constant smoke and soot belching from vehicles with no emissions controls. When one walks on the road in an American city there is hugely lower levels of emissions coming out of the tailpipes of vehicles.

By the way, Colombo recently got rated worse than Bangkok for air pollution. And Bangkok used to be one of the most air polluted cities in the world. How did the Thais clean up the air in Bangkok? Mostly through lower emissions vehicles.

Wonderful. Now take a trip to Thailand sometime and see how many hybrid cars that you see on the road, compared to normal vehicles. I do visit Thailand once in a while and I can definitely say there are far more hybrids in Colombo than in Bangkok.

While I agree that lower emissions are obviously the beneficial for all of us, your argument of presenting hybrids as the only vehicles that do not cause air pollution is beneath contempt.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Crosswind

[Californikan]

Wonderful. Now take a trip to Thailand sometime and see how many hybrid cars that you see on the road, compared to normal vehicles. I do visit Thailand once in a while and I can definitely say there are far more hybrids in Colombo than in Bangkok.

While I agree that lower emissions are obviously the beneficial for all of us, your argument of presenting hybrids as the only vehicles that do not cause air pollution is beneath contempt.

Did I say anything about hybrids in my post?

FYI: I didn't. You are imagining things in that post that are not there.

I said stringent vehicle emissions laws and regulations that have been in place for 45 years is what allows the air quality in U.S. cities to be much better than Colombo. Not hybrids.

I said lower emissions vehicles is what enabled Bangkok to clean up it's air. I didn't say anything about hybrids.

[blkr6]

Love Scotty's take on the ownership costs on older Prius hybrids. Might (grammar note: using might for possibility ) just be lucky that we're not importing these junkers to SL.

It's stuff like this that seems to keep folk - except for the socks and sandals brigade - world-wide away from buying second-hand hybrids.

Statisticaly speaking problems are very minimal with toyota hybrids. there are always bunch of lemons in any car manufacturer. i know a taxi guy with 302k Miles (486km) on his camry hybrid. that dosent mean all toyota hybrids go 300+ either.

Edited March 25, 2012 by blkr6

[Californikan]

Anecdotes about individual cars are interesting & entertaining, but of not so much value compared to large scientific reliability and durability studies of millions of vehicles.

Here's a 10-year detailed scientific analysis of the reliability of tens of thousands of Prii.

Prius is more reliable than the already reliable Corolla/Axio/Allion. However, it will take a few years for the Prius to "prove" its reliability and durability in SL. Once it has, expect it to become even more popular, especially considering it gets double the fuel economy of the Axio.

And just for comparisons sake, this is what the reliability analysis of an unreliable vehicle shows:

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Edited March 30, 2012 by Californikan

[Pericles]

Prius is even more reliable than the already super reliable Corolla/Axio. However, it will take a few years for the Prius to "prove" its reliability and durability in SL. Once it has, expect it to become even more popular, especially considering it gets double the fuel economy of the Axio.

Good. Lets drop this for now and come back in a few years "once it has".

[vishkid]

Worthless argument. I just butted in to say .. funk the statistics, I've visited Bangkok, California and Colombo (ugh .. I live there) and so far Colombo had the easiest air to breathe - at least to my freakin' nose. I understand this can be due to a lot of factors.

But Colombo is just one city and if you take Sri Lanka as a whole - the air here is definitely wholesome compared to many other countries (except if you live near a canal - again colombo ).

So I again say - let's cut the tree huggers with the trees (just kidding), enjoy our lives and especially our rides - our country will not come worse off like USA and many other developed countries in terms of purity of environment. In other words, we will not be spoiling it for the generations to come, because our collective emissions are so freakin' low compared to our greenery that we're blessed to have.

Hybrids are NOT a factor for saving environment in Sri Lanka - in fact, right now my child has a greater risk of being run over by a hybrid rather than being affected by any pollution by a smoke belching, gas guzzling dinosaur.

[Californikan]

Worthless argument. I just butted in to say .. funk the statistics, I've visited Bangkok, California and Colombo (ugh .. I live there) and so far Colombo had the easiest air to breathe - at least to my freakin' nose. I understand this can be due to a lot of factors.

But Colombo is just one city and if you take Sri Lanka as a whole - the air here is definitely wholesome compared to many other countries (except if you live near a canal - again colombo ).

So I again say - let's cut the tree huggers with the trees (just kidding), enjoy our lives and especially our rides - our country will not come worse off like USA and many other developed countries in terms of purity of environment. In other words, we will not be spoiling it for the generations to come, because our collective emissions are so freakin' low compared to our greenery that we're blessed to have.

First of all I have no problem with gas guzzlers, performance cars, powerful cars, and " just driving the shit out of your 6km/L mean machine and enjoying life." as you said. These types of vehicles are comparatively so few in number in SL, they have a negligible effect on air quality. So race your car to your hearts content, and I'll be happy for you.

But it is not accurate to say Colombo 's air even approaches the cleanliness of the air of cities in developed countries. It doesn't. Yes, SL's total emissions are low compared to much larger countries, but the per vehicle emissions for the land mass are much higher.

Just to give another perspective, vehicle pollution and air pollution is one of the top complaints about Sri Lanka by visiting tourists to tourist authorities, and web reports.

right now my child has a greater risk of being run over by a hybrid rather than being affected by any pollution by a smoke belching, gas guzzling dinosaur.

Right now, your child has a significantly higher risk of developing Asthma, wheezing and respiratory illnesses living in Colombo than outstation because of the much higher vehicle emissions in Colombo. The tiny lead, metal and other pollutant particles emitted by vehicles get breathed in by people and go in and damage their lungs. Children are affected much more than adults:

" Colombo schools the nursery and kindergarten classes are located near the entrance of the schools where the area is most polluted and the pollutants are inhaled by the children. Prof Manouri Sennayake speaking on ‘Impact of Air Pollution on the Health of Children in Colombo’ indicated that an alarming number of asthma cases are reported from Colombo, and children are the most vulnerable. " - http://sundaytimes.l...Times/bt34.html

" Existing evidence has shown that the urban environment of Colombo is heavily contaminated with vehicular emissions. Studies have clearly shown that inefficient combustion of petroleum in motor vehicles is the primary cause of growing air pollution in Colombo. The observed lead (Pb), total suspended particulate (TPS), sulfur dioxide (SO2) ozone (O3) levels are significantly higher than the levels recommended by the World Health Organization (WHO). Respiratory disease is the second leading cause of hospitalization. Asthma has become a major respiratory disease due mainly to the explosive growth of 3 wheelers and 2 wheelers and the signification increase in diesel fuel consumption. " - http://www.sinhalaya....php?ArtID=9421

The World Health Organization and the United States Environmental Protection Agency have all classified diesel emissions as carcinogenic. Studies in Sri Lanka have attributed Rs 22-17 billion to health damage costs owing to auto diesel emissions in Colombo. -

http://www.cseindia....-mobility-crisi

Our fellows are notorious for denying problems, not thinking ahead, not planning for the future and not taking preventative action to prevent problems instead of scrambling to fix problems. Anyone from a country with strict emissions regulations who visits SL can see there is a big vehicle emissions and pollution problem in SL just on the drive from the airport to Colombo. But true to form, fellows continue to deny there is a problem even though they are falling sick and dying from it.

[Californikan]

Hybrids....Do We really Need Them?

Judging by today's tax increase, some people who really need a car will find themselves suddenly really needing a hybrid....

Hybrid tax below 2000cc - 60%

Petrol tax below 2000cc - 200%

Diesel tax below 2000cc - 250%

[Pericles]

Judging by today's tax increase, some people who really need a car will find themselves suddenly really needing a hybrid....

Hybrid tax below 2000cc - 60%

Petrol tax below 2000cc - 200%

Diesel tax below 2000cc - 250%

Typical Cali. Why don't you try something like this? Take the actual rupee value being charged for an Insight (which is, I think, the only below 2000cc hybrid being imported by an agent) and compare it with the actual rupee value being charged by agents for some other popular cars in the under 2000cc category, such as the Maruti, the Perodua, the Hyundai Santro, ect.

Then you can see if those who really just need something that will take them from A-to-B will be buying the hybrid.

[vishkid]

First of all I have no problem with gas guzzlers, performance cars, powerful cars, and " just driving the shit out of your 6km/L mean machine and enjoying life." as you said. These types of vehicles are comparatively so few in number in SL, they have a negligible effect on air quality. So race your car to your hearts content, and I'll be happy for you.

Our fellows are notorious for denying problems, not thinking ahead, not planning for the future and not taking preventative action to prevent problems instead of scrambling to fix problems. Anyone from a country with strict emissions regulations who visits SL can see there is a big vehicle emissions and pollution problem in SL just on the drive from the airport to Colombo. But true to form, fellows continue to deny there is a problem even though they are falling sick and dying from it.

Shit - you're quoting a couple of web bullshit whereas there are millions of such reports for the air pollution in California where you're handle comes from (indicating a fixation of some sort?) ? Dude you're sorrier than I thought.

I spoke from experience of being in many cities and breathing the air myself. I've been to many place in the 'developed' world where most everyone wears a face mask due to air pollution. I invite you to give me examples of a few pedestrian in Colombo or Kandy today, wearing a face mask against air pollution - 'cos I see none. Don't tell me it's due to lack of face masks as I hv a pack at home, which I'd wear in certain countries!

It's not that we lack pollution - I'm harping on the fact that it's minute compared to many other places and we don't need feckin hybrids nor electric cars to absolve us of anything.

We here in Sri Lanka can 'afford' to go on 'polluting' far longer that many other places in earth because for the last 2000 years, we've done jack shit when many of your 'developed' nations hv eaten their piece of earth and spat it out like the shit it is now.

Californikan - I hope you hv a little common sense to understand that many of the reports you quote come from people in countries who hv done irrevocable damage to the earth - put the environmental to it's current shitty state - repeatedly refused to agree to global environmental conventions and now desperately clamoring to restrict the little developing nations like ourselves who are just beginning to enjoy some of the fruits of technology, to giving those luxuries up - in the name of environment. It's ironic - it's hypocritic.

They screwed it all up using cheap fuel and technology BUT now they want us to use 'cleaner', expensive, unreliable and thus prohibitive technology.

We need to hv long range plans to protect 'our' children and 'our' children - yes, but we don't owe the rest of the world nothing, compared to what they owe us - in terms of environmental pollution. Our policies should be firmly based on that fact.

Puppets like you who just parrot what those parrot what these uncle Sam's are now lobbying for are the bane of this nation.

Waste of bandwith really, but I'm constantly amused by how dumbded down people can be using web reports and stats when the ground reality is different for and is there for all to see.

Edited April 1, 2012 by vishkid

[Californikan]

It's not that we lack pollution - I'm harping on the fact that it's minute compared to many other places

I really really hate it when people point to countries that are much shittier and have much bigger problems than SL and use that as an excuse to justify and minimize SL's lack of performance.

If your child came back from school with failing exam results and told you it wasn't a problem because their friend did even worse on the exam, would you say " You're right. You got 40% on the exam, your friend got 10%, There's no problem with your school performance. You're doing very well" ?? That's what you're doing when you compare SL to shit places.

I invite you to give me examples of a few pedestrian in Colombo or Kandy today, wearing a face mask against air pollution - 'cos I see none.

The countries you speak of where people wear face masks have severe air quality issues and all had low emissions regulations until recently. They are paying for their mistakes now. Why are you looking at places where they did it all wrong? Look at places where they did emissions management right.

BTW, the lack of face masks in SL does NOT necessarily indicate a lack of pollution, but rather a lack of knowledge. I've watched many traffic policemen standing in the middle of the road for hours in heavily trafficed parts of Colombo not wearing a facemask and breathing in huge amounts of hazardous toxic vehicle fumes. Are they not wearing a facemask because there is no pollution or health danger? No! They are not wearing a facemask because they don't know any better..

Shit - you're quoting a couple of web bullshit

The World Health Organization is not web bullshit. And many of these studies have been done by Sri Lankan scientists from Sri Lankan universities. Multiple scientific air quality analysis have found that the air quality in Colombo is poor due to vehicle emissions, and people are getting sick. They have proved that air pollution problem is causing respiratory problems to people, especially to children. By denying scientific evidence, you're being exactly like people 300 years ago who, when they were told there is scientific proof the earth is round replied " No! the world isn't round. The world is flat...'cause I can see it with my own eyes."

Californikan - I hope you hv a little common sense to understand that many of the reports you quote come from people in countries who hv done irrevocable damage to the earth - put the environmental to it's current shitty state - repeatedly refused to agree to global environmental conventions and now desperately clamoring to restrict the little developing nations like ourselves who are just beginning to enjoy some of the fruits of technology, to giving those luxuries up - in the name of environment. It's ironic - it's hypocritic.

They screwed it all up using cheap fuel and technology BUT now they want us to use 'cleaner', expensive, unreliable and thus prohibitive technology.

We need to hv long range plans to protect 'our' children and 'our' children - yes, but we don't owe the rest of the world nothing, compared to what they owe us - in terms of environmental pollution. Our policies should be firmly based on that fact.

Puppets like you who just parrot what those parrot what these uncle Sam's are now lobbying for are the bane of this nation.

Typical and usual knee jerk reaction. If a miracle cancer drug was invented in a western country and brought to SL, there would be some people who would have the knee jerk reaction of being against it because it came from outside the country - even if it would cure their own mother of cancer.

Yes, developed countries have polluted the environment terribly over the last 200 years, and refuse to sign environmental conventions, and hypocritically tried to dictate things to other countries. All true. But it doesn't change the fact that people in SL and all over the world are getting respiratory illnesses from vehicle emissions particles that they are breathing in. C'mon man. This is a no brainer. Just conceptually what is better for the health of people? Vehicles that spew toxic smoke or vehicles that emit very little emissions?

By the way, all I'm saying is what the Central Environment Authority of SL is saying, and what the environmental authorities of every country including those in SAARC countries are saying. You're going against the entire world.

We here in Sri Lanka can 'afford' to go on 'polluting' far longer that many other places in earth

Typical short sighted mentality. Deny problems and do nothing about them. Take no preventative or corrective action. So then a small easily corrected problem over time becomes a really really really big problem. At which point, when something has to be done, a complete solution to fix the big problem is too difficult and expensive to fully implement.

[Californikan]

Typical Cali. Why don't you try something like this? Take the actual rupee value being charged for an Insight (which is, I think, the only below 2000cc hybrid being imported by an agent) and compare it with the actual rupee value being charged by agents for some other popular cars in the under 2000cc category, such as the Maruti, the Perodua, the Hyundai Santro, ect.

Then you can see if those who really just need something that will take them from A-to-B will be buying the hybrid.

The Insight is a significantly better car than the Maruti, Perouda, and Santro. Also, the Maruti, Perouda, and Santro can't match the Insight's fuel economy. And the Insight is a Honda.

All I'm saying is that because of this latest tax increase more people will choose a hybrid over the conventional engined competition.

[charitha19]

The Insight is a significantly better car than the Maruti, Perouda, and Santro. Also, the Maruti, Perouda, and Santro can't match the Insight's fuel economy. And the Insight is a Honda.

All I'm saying is that because of this latest tax increase more people will choose a hybrid over the conventional engined competition.

man u really dont have anything to do ney... fighting so hard on a forum in SL.. do u get paid or something.. or is it that u dont have a life beyond trying to push hybrids. people in SL will buy what ever is cheaper.. the common motorist that is... but some will consider paying a little extra and going for what they know rather than the unknown... so u never know... but we do know that all the hybrid owners dont give a jack about air pollution or saving the planet... even the emission tests we have in SL is a big lie... my astina was modified to so much of an extent that it could have never passed the emissions but it did.. i had a straight through exhaust running in it...

now as for this regime.. well need i say more..

[charitha19]

I really really hate it when people point to countries that are much shittier and have much bigger problems than SL and use that as an excuse to justify and minimize SL's lack of performance.

If your child came back from school with failing exam results and told you it wasn't a problem because their friend did even worse on the exam, would you say " You're right. You got 40% on the exam, your friend got 10%, There's no problem with your school performance. You're doing very well" ?? That's what you're doing when you compare SL to shit places.

The countries you speak of where people wear face masks have severe air quality issues and all had low emissions regulations until recently. They are paying for their mistakes now. Why are you looking at places where they did it all wrong? Look at places where they did emissions management right.

BTW, the lack of face masks in SL does NOT necessarily indicate a lack of pollution, but rather a lack of knowledge. I've watched many traffic policemen standing in the middle of the road for hours in heavily trafficed parts of Colombo not wearing a facemask and breathing in huge amounts of hazardous toxic vehicle fumes. Are they not wearing a facemask because there is no pollution or health danger? No! They are not wearing a facemask because they don't know any better..

The World Health Organization is not web bullshit. And many of these studies have been done by Sri Lankan scientists from Sri Lankan universities. Multiple scientific air quality analysis have found that the air quality in Colombo is poor due to vehicle emissions, and people are getting sick. They have proved that air pollution problem is causing respiratory problems to people, especially to children. By denying scientific evidence, you're being exactly like people 300 years ago who, when they were told there is scientific proof the earth is round replied " No! the world isn't round. The world is flat...'cause I can see it with my own eyes."

Typical and usual knee jerk reaction. If a miracle cancer drug was invented in a western country and brought to SL, there would be some people who would have the knee jerk reaction of being against it because it came from outside the country - even if it would cure their own mother of cancer.

Yes, developed countries have polluted the environment terribly over the last 200 years, and refuse to sign environmental conventions, and hypocritically tried to dictate things to other countries. All true. But it doesn't change the fact that people in SL and all over the world are getting respiratory illnesses from vehicle emissions particles that they are breathing in. C'mon man. This is a no brainer. Just conceptually what is better for the health of people? Vehicles that spew toxic smoke or vehicles that emit very little emissions?

By the way, all I'm saying is what the Central Environment Authority of SL is saying, and what the environmental authorities of every country including those in SAARC countries are saying. You're going against the entire world.

Typical short sighted mentality. Deny problems and do nothing about them. Take no preventative or corrective action. So then a small easily corrected problem over time becomes a really really really big problem. At which point, when something has to be done, a complete solution to fix the big problem is too difficult and expensive to fully implement.

CAli here.. why dont u come to live in SL.. and try to do this shit with the help of the regime... ha ha ha.. i wanna see u try.. u moron SL has bigger problems that air pollution.. developed countries dont have anything to do.. so they promote green.. save the fish.. save the trees.. etc.. initiatives.. same here in canada.. they dont have anything else to do.. i am not saying these are not issues.. but they are minor compared to what we have in SL... kapish..

[Pericles]

Typical short sighted mentality. Deny problems and do nothing about them. Take no preventative or corrective action. So then a small easily corrected problem over time becomes a really really really big problem. At which point, when something has to be done, a complete solution to fix the big problem is too difficult and expensive to fully implement.

I fully agree. We should not take short sighted action to follow the herd. Like blindly believing that we still have infrastructure for hybrid support and believing "recalls" issued by Hybrid Lanka or whatever they were called.

[Pericles]

All I'm saying is that because of this latest tax increase more people will choose a hybrid over the conventional engined competition.

Thats not what you said, this is what you said.

Judging by today's tax increase, some people who really need a car will find themselves suddenly really needing a hybrid....

Your choice of words was "NEED". Flat out statement. Not choose. And need a car. And now you want it to mean something else.

Which is actually more typical Cali BS.

Please remember I'm not arguing over better cars. I'm simply pointing out the utter rot you post. Now please go away.