1968 Datsun 510 Sedan (Project Datto)

[Komisiripala]

Summary level =9,000

[MasterDon]

Instead of letting one garage handle everything have you guys thought of dividing the work among specialists(Paint shop for the paint job etc).Not only would it speed up the process but also the 'finish' would be better overall.I only say this cos progress seems to be very slow(more than year since it was handed over to the garage I think)..I mean the car was running condition and it is an uncomplicated car.I just can't understand the deal here.

I know restoration in itself is very fun,and by now you should know about resto jobs more than me but there comes a day you just wanna be done with it and just drive the damn thing....

[VVTi]

All is well... but what gets my goat is these two jokers are using my poor Foz as a freaking Land-Master....

I get dibs on all their cars when their done. Exclusive usage for a undetermined length of time and all the p***y that comes with it.

[VVTi]

Basically Komis Datsun is waiting to be painted now, but as always there is a queue and work is VERY slow. I think the frustration is what has driven Komi off talking about the project publicly.

Komis is also preparing himself to be raped by customs as multiple part shipments are due soon, with the bits needed to finish the cars. This is one of the reason for the lack of updates as we are now waiting for some critical components. Any donations of vasline will be greatly appreciated.

We have destroyed VVTI's Fozzi transporting an old engine for an rebuild. So I will be doning my loin cloth and scrubbing its back side the next time I'm down in Sri Lanka

You mean my back.

Edited September 12, 2014 by VVTi

[The Don]

Instead of letting one garage handle everything have you guys thought of dividing the work among specialists(Paint shop for the paint job etc).Not only would it speed up the process but also the 'finish' would be better overall.I only say this cos progress seems to be very slow(more than year since it was handed over to the garage I think)..I mean the car was running condition and it is an uncomplicated car.I just can't understand the deal here.

I know restoration in itself is very fun,and by now you should know about resto jobs more than me but there comes a day you just wanna be done with it and just drive the damn thing....

You are right there MD, I think the issue was a case of the known devil being better than the unknown saint. Also for Komit, he gets a lot of flexibility from this garage, and in my case I'm not in the country so I've gone with whatever he is comfortable with.

But if you can reccomend a few places, we would be more than happy to check them out!

[Komisiripala]

She's being puttied and lines perfected before paint. Made it to the booth so that's a good thing. This process will take a while he's at it with a fine toothed comb.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Komisiripala

[MasterDon]

You are right there MD, I think the issue was a case of the known devil being better than the unknown saint. Also for Komit, he gets a lot of flexibility from this garage, and in my case I'm not in the country so I've gone with whatever he is comfortable with.

But if you can reccomend a few places, we would be more than happy to check them out!

I'd trade the flexibility for a bit of rapidity if I'm honest.I read this entire thread today, top to bottom,and for the most part of 42 pages nothing much has happened.Just people congratulating each other and inane banter...That is some flexibility.

Anyway if you're serious about it I'd be more than happy to share my contacts.

Edited September 12, 2014 by MasterDon

[The Don]

I'd trade the flexibility for a bit of rapidity if I'm honest.I read this entire thread today, top to bottom,and for the most part of 42 pages nothing much has happened.Just people congratulating each other and inane banter...That is some flexibility.

Anyway if you're serious about it I'd be more than happy to share my contacts.

MD, I think that is an unfair comment. Komi for a long time didn't do anything because he can only do so much in a certain month as that is what the residual funds he has permits. For a while this garrage did work for him for free, while he had nothing to pay them with, but of course they didn't give it priority over other paying projects so obviously things got delayed.

And also the flexibility was the fact he was allowed to pay in installments. I don't think there are many garrages out there who can, or will do that (for that matter can afford to do that).

There are plenty of vehicles laying in peoples gardens until the stars line up to start work, and this was no different.

Also parts for them had be sourced from all over, and they don't turn up everyday, so there were delays there.

On your thread about the Triumph, I asked whether you could provide me contact details of a good tinker, and you said your guys work for you exclusively, and we had a little chat about how you need to keep your good resources close to you and be a bit selfish sometimes. At that time you said you will let me know if you come accross any more.

Fact is the man loves cars like everybody else. And people have helped the best way they can. We can only deal with who we know and who we trust. Now we are always open to trying somebody else out on reccomendation, but to be frank I've been in Autolanka since 2004 and I've not had a single reccomendation on a tinkerer. GTAm has a good guy but he has projects lined up for a number of years!

So rather than critising the garage, critising the guy and other commenters on this thread, why don't you post any contacts you have particularly for body work on the good garrages thread? We would all be infinitely grateful!

Because painters and mechanics are everywhere. Good tinkers are a rare bleed, and while this guy is slow and lazy, he is bloody good, and you can see it from the attention to detail. There is no compromise, no massive layers of cataloy, and he did the Mirage's roof with a single sheet of metal perfectly. This two other garages refused to do as they said it will go wrong and wanted me to get down a roof. I would have but there are customs restrictions on roof imports. But he did it. I know only one other guy who did a similar job, and he used to work for TP's garage but I don't know where he works now, and TP is not in that game anymore.

[MasterDon]

Oh I'm sorry,I did not realize you were asking for my people...I thought you were asking for a contact of a garage I trusted that would get the job done quickly.Which I'm perfectly able to do...If you were looking to get the services my mechanics and tinker then I'm afraid the answer is still no.

Regarding the tinker's prowess.You hail him as this second coming of picasso,but I see nothing special...You keep raving about the hood but there are people in SL who turn out whole cars.So forgive me If I don't faint over your tinker's awesomeness....certainly not a guy worth wasting a year on.

This Datsun is not some rare exotic beast that parts are ultra super rare.I bet if you look away from Ebay for once you'll be able to find most parts locally.Myself and other people find parts for citroens,Aston DB2s,Jag V12s and V8 American muscle from local junkyards.But I understand that is not the cool thing to do...The cool thing is to order from ebay and then bitch about the local import taxes.

You imply that other people restore cars with lots of Catoloy paste.Please don't be so ignorant....We do our restorations properly too,but we do it quickly so we're not grandpas when we get to finally drive them.

As for GTAm.His Berlina project is on a whole another level compared to the Datsun.That car is nothing but rust.And GTAm himself made it clear that he wasn't too fussed about when it was completed.I assure you if it was his Alfetta or the Giulia he'd be pissed as hell.

Nowhere on this thread has Komi mentioned that he's having money issues.He always implied that it was the garage's fault as to why the car was getting delayed.That is why I always assumed the worst things about his garage...If he had said he's having financial difficulties I would not have commented.

Edited September 13, 2014 by MasterDon

[Watchman]

I feel that as much as moderators have the right to form their opinion, they must also remain unbiased. And as passionate the moderator may be maybe, as he is neither the owner of the car in question, nor been specifically pin-pointed maybe he should try his best to refrain from defending one party.

<<angel of peace flies away>>

[Bracket]

[MasterDon]

I feel that as much as moderators have the right to form their opinion, they must also remain unbiased. And as passionate the moderator may be maybe, as he is neither the owner of the car in question, nor been specifically pin-pointed maybe he should try his best to refrain from defending one party.

<<angel of peace flies away>>

Have to agree with this...I understand The Don has certain benefits from being on Komi's good side but as a moderator here he must remain impartial .

However one good thing has come out of his comments....We now know that Komi blaming on the garage people for the car's delays were complete and utter bullshit...It was all his fault all along.Having financial issues is nothing to be ashemed of but blaming some poor garage fellow for it is deplorable behavior.

[VVTi]

Ok, in order to calm frayed nerves, I present to you, VVti's garage and its new inhabitant... and it's biggest fan.

Edited September 13, 2014 by VVTi

[VVTi]

That's Komi...crying happy tears.

[The Don]

I feel that as much as moderators have the right to form their opinion, they must also remain unbiased. And as passionate the moderator may be maybe, as he is neither the owner of the car in question, nor been specifically pin-pointed maybe he should try his best to refrain from defending one party.

<<angel of peace flies away>>

Watchman, I was a member of Autolanka long before I was made a moderator. In this case as somebody with some insight to what has happened I was simply setting the record straight. I don't think me being a moderator has anything to do with anything has been said. MD has the freedom to say whatever he wants to say, but the same applies to me as well

[SHAI]

Nice ....however not a big fan of those chromy wheels

[The Don]

Oh I'm sorry,I did not realize you were asking for my people...I thought you were asking for a contact of a garage I trusted that would get the job done quickly.Which I'm perfectly able to do...If you were looking to get the services my mechanics and tinker then I'm afraid the answer is still no.

Regarding the tinker's prowess.You hail him as this second coming of picasso,but I see nothing special...You keep raving about the hood but there are people in SL who turn out whole cars.So forgive me If I don't faint over your tinker's awesomeness....certainly not a guy worth wasting a year on.

This Datsun is not some rare exotic beast that parts are ultra super rare.I bet if you look away from Ebay for once you'll be able to find most parts locally.Myself and other people find parts for citroens,Aston DB2s,Jag V12s and V8 American muscle from local junkyards.But I understand that is not the cool thing to do...The cool thing is to order from ebay and then bitch about the local import taxes.

You imply that other people restore cars with lots of Catoloy paste.Please don't be so ignorant....We do our restorations properly too,but we do it quickly so we're not grandpas when we get to finally drive them.

As for GTAm.His Berlina project is on a whole another level compared to the Datsun.That car is nothing but rust.And GTAm himself made it clear that he wasn't too fussed about when it was completed.I assure you if it was his Alfetta or the Giulia he'd be pissed as hell.

Nowhere on this thread has Komi mentioned that he's having money issues.He always implied that it was the garage's fault as to why the car was getting delayed.That is why I always assumed the worst things about his garage...If he had said he's having financial difficulties I would not have commented.

First and foremost for the public record I own one of these cars as well, and I joined forces with Komi to work on his car as a joined project. Its not a fact that was advertised in the forum but might be relevant in interpreting my comments. So in the interest of full disclosure I thought it was important to mention that for those not in the know. So obviously I've had an influence on this progress of this project and have helped in sourcing parts doing research etc. We've had help from a lot of people, Jaliya, VVTi and even MD with advice, pointers and contacts and logistical support.

MD I respected your decision then as they are your workmen and they are on your payroll. The point I was trying to make was I looked at a number of options, and these guys were the only ones who seemed to have the right understanding, the skills and willing to take the job on. And up to now while I'm not satisfied with the time its taken, I am satisfied with the quality of the work.

Never have I implied or commented on the quality of work on anybody's car restorations. If I referred to cataloy, it was only to point out there are some tinkers who seem to cover their inferior skills with loads of cataloy. Perhaps I have been unlucky but I've only had one good tinker work on a car I had but he's gone AWOL and nobody knows where he is.

In terms of this tinker, the complaints only refer to the time when the project was revived with cash injection a few months ago. And anyway as it has been already mentioned we are both happy with his work, just not the speed, but even Supra assures me this was the case on this project.

As for sourcing parts, we have no intention of being cool, and are as cost concious as anybody else. Where it was possible we sourced parts from yards and contacts we got from the forum etc. In this Dingy requires a special mention. But some of the parts we are using on the cars are from exotic versions of the Datsun, and of models never imported into Sri Lanka. And you know full well, while ebay and Y Japan auctions are one of our sources, it is not the only source. This was a first for me in particular and we've obviously made mistakes, which are things we will learn from and apply to anything else we do in the future.

And I would appreciate if you don't bring the fact that I'm a moderator into these conversations, as I was not commenting on anything in that capacity.

Anyway I don't think this warrants any more discussion. This thread is about the restoration and upgrade of a Datsun 510 and I do not wish to detract from that any more. The next time you guys hear from me on this thread it would be about the L series engine

[VVTi]

Nice ....however not a big fan of those chromy wheels

Neither am I. Came with it and can't be choosy when they are wrapped in brand new 17 inch Z rated rubbers... In time

[MasterDon]

First and foremost for the public record I own one of these cars as well, and I joined forces with Komi to work on his car as a joined project. Its not a fact that was advertised in the forum but might be relevant in interpreting my comments. So in the interest of full disclosure I thought it was important to mention that for those not in the know. So obviously I've had an influence on this progress of this project and have helped in sourcing parts doing research etc. We've had help from a lot of people, Jaliya, VVTi and even MD with advice, pointers and contacts and logistical support.

MD I respected your decision then as they are your workmen and they are on your payroll. The point I was trying to make was I looked at a number of options, and these guys were the only ones who seemed to have the right understanding, the skills and willing to take the job on. And up to now while I'm not satisfied with the time its taken, I am satisfied with the quality of the work.

Never have I implied or commented on the quality of work on anybody's car restorations. If I referred to cataloy, it was only to point out there are some tinkers who seem to cover their inferior skills with loads of cataloy. Perhaps I have been unlucky but I've only had one good tinker work on a car I had but he's gone AWOL and nobody knows where he is.

In terms of this tinker, the complaints only refer to the time when the project was revived with cash injection a few months ago. And anyway as it has been already mentioned we are both happy with his work, just not the speed, but even Supra assures me this was the case on this project.

As for sourcing parts, we have no intention of being cool, and are as cost concious as anybody else. Where it was possible we sourced parts from yards and contacts we got from the forum etc. In this Dingy requires a special mention. But some of the parts we are using on the cars are from exotic versions of the Datsun, and of models never imported into Sri Lanka. And you know full well, while ebay and Y Japan auctions are one of our sources, it is not the only source. This was a first for me in particular and we've obviously made mistakes, which are things we will learn from and apply to anything else we do in the future.

And I would appreciate if you don't bring the fact that I'm a moderator into these conversations, as I was not commenting on anything in that capacity.

Anyway I don't think this warrants any more discussion. This thread is about the restoration and upgrade of a Datsun 510 and I do not wish to detract from that any more. The next time you guys hear from me on this thread it would be about the L series engine

ok

[The Don]

I think Komi's hope was this thread would serve as a guide to anybody attempting a Datsun 510 restoration/ resto mod, but also to save the hassle to others of making the same mistakes he made. And indeed being a novice many mistakes have been learned and money has been wasted, but none of us came to this world knowing everything so while the lessons have been hard and expensive, it has also been an education. He has asked me to write this piece as he felt it was more my area of speciality than his (mechanics).

So to refocus back the journey so far, some of you might remember that Komi at the start of this journey had mixed feelings on what engine to go with. The 1300 cc engine which it came with had just about enough torque to turn the AC compressor but its powers somewhat ended there. It was a serious limitation to enjoy the capabilities of the 510 platform. He was offered the option of getting a 1600 cc engine fairly cheaply or the more radical option of a SR20 DET engine with a lot more power.

The L series by modern standards is a very basic engine. It has a non cross flow design with 2 valves per cylinder (making it a 8 valve engine). It was only offered in SOHC spec (unless you had the Nismo LZ which was cross flow DOHC). The simplicity was one of its major strengths as it was very easy to maintain and very reliable. It is also infinitely tunable and very popular even today.

Myself and a few others argued and ultimately convinced Komi to stick with the L series platform, because it is so much a part of the identity and authenticity of the car. Now an obvious question might by why a 1600 cc engine? Why not an 1800 cc or a 2000 cc engine (which is the biggest L series engine that fits the Datsun 510. Only 4 pot versions fit as well. 6 pots can be made to fit but require modification to the firewall etc. things we did not really want to do). Well there were plenty of 1800 cc (L18) and 2000 cc (L20B) imported to Sri Lanka in cars like the Blubird, Stanza and even the Datsun cabs. But many of these engines were removed and these vehicles converted to diesel, and the left over engines were sold for scrap. Others left behind were sometimes scavenged for parts. So at the time the only engine he found as the L16 and he got it for a very reasonable price. We later found and procured a L18 but this cost us considerably more money, but there was a reason why we were willing to pay that, but I will get into this subject in a little bit.

Komis vision was to transform his car as close as possible to the JDM SSS spec, which was the highest grade available. The engine in the SSS was a specially tuned L 16 engine supported by 36 mm dual Hitachi carburettors (sometimes referred to as Hitachi SU carbs because Hitachi apparently licensed the design from SU). There was a few more differences apart from the dual carbs.

1. The cam shaft had more aggressive lobes which had a bigger oval, so will keep the valves open for longer and lift higher. While as these cam shafts came on the L 16 SSS spec, they also came as standard on many L20B engine so many people take the cam shaft from these engines and use it on their L16.

2. The compression was increased by reducing the size of the combustion chamber using two techniques. First the top of the SSS engine piston is flat compared to the standard L 16 piston which has a slight curve inwards (like a little disc has been carved out). Secondly the shape of the combustion chamber on the head was made smaller, making it from round (in the standard L 16 engine) to a more peanut shape. So these heads are sometimes called peanut heads.

Below is the standard 210 casting L 16 head

Unfortunately it also sports small intake ports

Below is an A87 casting closed chamber head design

Bigger ports of the A87 casting

I have borrowed the images from this article, which I encourage you to read if you are interested in the subject. The evolution of the L series engine is fascinating and during the time it was in existence Nissan made loads of modifications to the head design, mostly driven by fuel economy and emissions control laws. The holy grail of the L series heads is the LZ series head which was a 16 valve cross flow design head which could be turned to produce over 200 bhp of power on a L16 block (with forged internals) without a turbo. Now that's some power. They were made by Nismo and were bought by racers in the formula pacific series which the Datsun 510 dominated. They rarely come up for sale and go for thousands of dollars (I watched with sadness as one sold for $4250...)

http://dimequarterly.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/tech-how-to-l-series-cylinder-head.html

I think by now you would have understood that the casting number (heads like the A87 and W58 came with both open and closed chamber designs) and whether the head was open or closed chamber was very important in deciding on the engine upgrade. This was the first challenge and a bit of a mine field.

Datsun heads had a lot of casting numbers like 210, 219, W58, A87, U67, U60 etc etc. Out of which the 219, A87 and W58 came with the closed chamber heads, so we had to find one of those. The A87 closed chamber was the natural choice here because they are the most common and easiest to find. We were lucky to find one in Sri Lanka itself but we had to buy the entire engine, the afore mentioned L18, but until we opened it up we were not sure whether it was an open a closed chamber head. After a number of days of trying to removed the head thanks to rusty sheared head blots and a rusty head gasket, the head finally revealed itself to be an A87 closed chamber head. That was a day of joy!

The story should have ended there, but it doesn't.......... The A87 was a logical choice because of availability, but the first true SSS head was the 219, which was only offered on the 510 SSS for 2 years and then onwards only available through Datsun competition parts catalogue and was named the V912. It is sometimes referred to as the race head by tuners and is quite rare......

While trying to source parts for our cars I ended up talking to and making friends with a number of Datsun part breakers from all over the world. And one of them let it slip that he had the 219 in stock!!! So in a heart rule head moment I ordered two ...... Thankfully I have no wife to scold me for these type of decisions.

Then we sadly figured out another thing. The L13 motor is actually a de stroked L16. The size of the piston is EXACTLY the same. The only thing different is the size of the rod. We had two working L13 engines. There was no reason to invest in another engine.................... We felt very stupid at that point, but you kind of learn these things as you go along.

So to summarise to upgrade a L13 motor to L16 SSS spec you need

1. SSS flat top pistons

2. L 16 rods

3. Closed chamber head

4. SSS camshaft

In my next post, I will talk about our journey to rebuild the rusty L 18 we bought.

[Watchman]

The Don,

So you ALSO have a 510? I believe this is the first time the forum is hearing of it.

Clearly you have vested (so far hidden) interests in this project. So I guess it's fair enough that you comment, but next time maybe you should disclose this BEFORE your rant. Else you looks like what we called in school, PPPDS (Pana pana p#k@ dena service)

So why dont you start your own thread or at least tell us something about YOUR car.

[Supra_Natural]

The Don,

So you ALSO have a 510? I believe this is the first time the forum is hearing of it.

Clearly you have vested (so far hidden) interests in this project. So I guess it's fair enough that you comment, but next time maybe you should disclose this BEFORE your rant. Else you looks like what we called in school, PPPDS (Pana pana p#k@ dena service)

So why dont you start your own thread or at least tell us something about YOUR car.

Whether the man wishes to disclose his project or not is entirely his business, some people prefer to keep a low profile, there's no need to be rude on account of that.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Supra_Natural

[Komisiripala]

Yes he does, and this has now become a joint project. I have no qualms about don using this thread. In fact better he does that than clutter forum space with another thread. We're both knee deep in this now!

Don is a lot more knowledgeable on the topic than I am. He's well versed on all aspects of a 510. I wish I had the time to delve into it as deep as he has but sadly I don't.

But I do take responsibility for making him want one. So bad. And hooking him up with it too. Naughty little me!

So shall we have a little less mud slinging and a little more car talk, gents?

[Hoonigan]

You guys collaborating will benefit both cars since both of you are shooting for somewhat similar goals.

And yet missing that 1300 conversion being rods away must have been a bummer. But hey, they say hindsight is 20-20.

[The Don]

The Don,

So you ALSO have a 510? I believe this is the first time the forum is hearing of it.

Clearly you have vested (so far hidden) interests in this project. So I guess it's fair enough that you comment, but next time maybe you should disclose this BEFORE your rant. Else you looks like what we called in school, PPPDS (Pana pana p#k@ dena service)

So why dont you start your own thread or at least tell us something about YOUR car.

I got mine off a friend on friendly terms. At the moment nothing has been done on that car, and it runs and drives. The work hasn't started on that car and I'm kind of using Komis as a test case, as to what needs to be done and how. Watchman, I help a lot of people with their projects behind the scenes, in helping them source parts and advising where possible. I don't go about talking about eveything I do in life in this forum, and for a large part it is irrelevant.

Also in this case the person who objected knows all of this information himself. So there was no issue of disclosure, though he may have made it seem so.

Anyway, I want to draw a line under this and move on. Supra, I will rely on you to moderate this thread because I don't want there to be accusations of being partial to one member or the other.