2Nd Hand Market Of The Hybrid Vehicles

[bumblebee]

Im using a Toyota Axio.Wish to sell it and buy a new hybrid.But i wonder about its 2nd hand market.I've never heard of anyone using a second hand one..

In my opinion hybrid is more sophisticated and worth driving for its minimal fuel expenses.But on the otherhand its more like a computer and vulnerable to electronic damage and the battery is expensive;Further more, its said that long distance travel is not worthy than the short distance one.

The current gov budget proposal is more towards the supportin of the hybrids.So I hope more will be used in future and options would be available.

So is it worth to buy a hybrid regardless of the second hand value..?

I value your reply..

Bumblebee

Edited November 29, 2013 by bumblebee

[zee boy]

Edited November 29, 2013 by zee boy

[Supra_Natural]

  On 11/29/2013 at 7:44 AM, chams said:

ok Sajiv W.. noted ..

Didnt you say you were going? Not that we want you to leave, mind you... AL is nothing if not inclusive of everyone..

[bumblebee]

  On 11/29/2013 at 6:15 AM, Watchman said:

#1. We "all" dont buy a car looking to 'sell at the right time' or to make money when selling it. Some people buy cars cos they need a more convenient way to get places, some buy/lease one to show their neighbors how fat thier wallets are, some people buy cars cos they enjoy driving them and some even buy them just to look at them. Yes there are people who buy them with the intention of making money off them, not ALL.

#2 Who says you have to go with current trends? What's wrong if you have decent car that serves your purpose which may not be the 'lastest'. If you're buying it out of vanity that's fine! Nothing wrong with it, just don't use BS excuses like 'trends', 'markets', 'government policies' and what not to justify it.

#3 If you honestly think that the government's taxation policies are done purely on 'potential global oil prices 3 years into the future' you ARE dilutional! If the price of crude goes up, the government will simply increase the price of price of petrol.

To "the new me"

Thanks for the constructive critisism...But i hope to define my words as you are so keen on them...Precision is what you are expecting I hope.

1."We" refers to common people who get a vehicle as required and sell it in need of urgent money or to buy another vehicle..Not the exceptonal people who collect vehicles and go to heaven with them.

2.Current trend-I suppose you need certain guts and risks to see a new doctor other than your family physician..But you have to do if the old one is not updated.

3.Oil prices-Its understood that the prices will be increased by the gov as crude oil has a limited supply.

So without beating around the bush you can focus on this...

If you are offered 5 yr old 2nd hand hybrid,for a reasonable price,would you buy it..? That was my question in simple context...I value your reply...

[iRage]

  On 11/29/2013 at 5:19 AM, zee boy said:

Watchman -

-

01) Hybrid is the trend for next couple of years - Even toyota has mentioned that all the vehicles they manufacture after 2016 will be non petrol vehicles. And also they have introduce new 16 hybrid models to the market..and all the premio and allion will be hybrid in near future

Interesting...this is the first time I am hearing this ..can I see the source for this ? It would make an interesting read.

So far alI I have heard is that Toyota will be offering Hybrid variants for most of their models when and where feasible (much like what the other manufacturers are doing). This includes the introduction of the Fuel Cell Hybrid that they will be launching in 2015. Now granted there is the possibility that based on market demand some pure gasoline models might be phased out as it would not be worth for Toyota to keep producing them. Much like what the fumbling idiots who can't drive but drive anyway did to Manual Transmission cars...

Edited November 29, 2013 by iRage

[The Don]

Hybrid vehicles are still petrol (or diesel I guess) vehicles. Even the plug in hybrids that exist at the moment still have petrol engines. The issue is full electric cars are still not feasible everywhere due to infrastructure issues and the same applies to hydrogen fuel cell powered cars.

So conventional vehicles will still be around for the foreseeable future.

Also is there any point buying vehicles now in anticipation of future trends? I mean by the time the trend becomes the norm your vehicle will anyway be obsolete. Buy something that suites your current needs.

[Pericles]

  On 11/29/2013 at 8:55 AM, bumblebee said:

If you are offered 5 yr old 2nd hand hybrid,for a reasonable price,would you buy it..? That was my question in simple context...I value your reply...

If you ask me, No. No chance. I wouldn't buy something that old with a rechargeable battery. If I was to go hybrid, it would only be brand new.

[VVTi]

  On 11/29/2013 at 8:55 AM, bumblebee said:

If you are offered 5 yr old 2nd hand hybrid,for a reasonable price,would you buy it..? That was my question in simple context...I value your reply...

Nope. Not worth the hassle.

Two things I will never buy second hand, DSLR camera and a laptop.

I will put a 2nd hand Hybrid to that list too.

Stop being a cheapo. buy a brand new Hybrid. Lokka has reduced the taxes on Hybrids so you can stop thinking and buy hybrids.

[bumblebee]

  On 11/29/2013 at 9:54 AM, Pericles said:

If you ask me, No. No chance. I wouldn't buy something that old with a rechargeable battery. If I was to go hybrid, it would only be brand new.

You have hit the nail on the head...

So what will happen to hybrid owners if they want to sell their vehicles...?

No one is there to buy them...

I cant afford to buy a vehicle which cannot be sold..

Is there anyone who thinks otherwise..?

And Don,Its understood that you cant think of the future for the current needs......But I think in real life you have to if you dont have more money to play around..

[zee boy]

I think its too early to think about the 2nd hand market..we will have to stay till the market is established...we had the same concern for Auto gear vehicle in past...2nd hand market of 1,2 years old hybrid cars are already there but I don't know about 5 year old hybrid.. personally I wouldnt buy a 5 year old hybrid... but there could be scenarios like this-

During the 5 years of time GOV will increase the taxation of hybrid vehicles for sure and you will be able to sell it for a decent price by then..

[Watchman]

  On 11/29/2013 at 8:55 AM, bumblebee said:

To "the new me"

Thanks for the constructive critisism...But i hope to define my words as you are so keen on them...Precision is what you are expecting I hope.

1."We" refers to common people who get a vehicle as required and sell it in need of urgent money or to buy another vehicle..Not the exceptonal people who collect vehicles and go to heaven with them.

2.Current trend-I suppose you need certain guts and risks to see a new doctor other than your family physician..But you have to do if the old one is not updated.

3.Oil prices-Its understood that the prices will be increased by the gov as crude oil has a limited supply.

So without beating aroun the bush you can focus on this...

If you are offered 5 yr old 2nd hand hybrid,for a reasonable price,would you buy it..? That was my question in simple context...I value your reply...

#1 Honestly, I wouldn't buy a car if I don't have "urgent money" at hand. Come on who buys a car if they have to scrape every last cent out of their bank account. Ride a motorcycle if so, you'll get MUCH better fuel efficiency.

#2. Your analogy is invalid; but even if it is, I would muc rather goto my family physician who knows my medical history and is trusted, rather than be the guinea pig for some quack doctor who just set up shop.

#3. What kind of stupid question is that? Reasonable is such a subjective term. To you, a hybrid is the pinnacle of the automotive industry. So you're probably willing to sell your left nut (if applicable) to own one. But to me a hybrid just another A-to-B car which has more potential of going bust than a regular 5 year old car. So the actual $$$ value of a hybrid to me is MUCH MUCH less.

[Watchman]

  On 11/29/2013 at 10:23 AM, zee boy said:

I think its too early to think about the 2nd hand market..we will have to stay till the market is established...we had the same concern for Auto gear vehicle in past...2nd hand market of 1,2 years old hybrid cars are already there but I don't know about 5 year old hybrid.. personally I wouldnt buy a 5 year old hybrid... but there could be scenarios like this-

During the 5 years of time GOV will increase the taxation of hybrid vehicles for sure and you will be able to sell it for a decent price by then..

Oh man look at you cheapo buggers getting all wet between your legs cos the car's potential 2nd hand market! You f###tards try to squeeze every rupee out of the next f###tard who wants to buy a hybrid cos he thinks that it will again appreciate in value when he has to sell it.

If you want to see your money grow there's banks and other investment schemes that would give much better returns. Don't come here preaching to us on the glory of current day hybrid vehicles because in 5 years hybrid vehicles will be the norm.

[Watchman]

  On 11/29/2013 at 10:02 AM, bumblebee said:

And Don,Its understood that you cant think of the future for the current needs......But I think in real life you have to if you dont have more money to play around..

This my friend is why you should learn to live within your means.

[zee boy]

You guys seems like very uneducated bunch of people who live in a small world and try to act like heros in thr own cyber space (but certainly loosers in real world..)

2,3 years back I can remember the same set of people was yelling at all the hybrid threads claiming that hybrid cars do not have any future potential and they are for beggars but petrol cars are the one, hybrid is a rubbish technology etc... these guys do not try to accept new technologies and hate to adopt to a change..they thing all they have is the best in the world and the rest have the worst ... may be it's due to the education level or social level of them..they do not even know that resell value is a common fact to consider before anyone buy a car.. resell value is a global fact and not specific to a country...

but anyways we should appreciate the effort they put in to maintain this site

[bumblebee]

  On 11/29/2013 at 10:45 AM, Watchman said:

Oh man look at you cheapo buggers getting all wet between your legs cos the car's potential 2nd hand market! You f###tards try to squeeze every rupee out of the next f###tard who wants to buy a hybrid cos he thinks that it will again appreciate in value when he has to sell it.

If you want to see your money grow there's banks and other investment schemes that would give much better returns. Don't come here preaching to us on the glory of current day hybrid vehicles because in 5 years hybrid vehicles will be the norm.

Watchman,

I think you have got older with a seductive hybrid language to blow your own trumpet...What I seek here is wisdom from decent people.If you dont tolerate this arguement please keep aloof.Dont shit aside your commode.You have not answered whatever ,but only spreading sarcasm and insults...poor attitudes lucrative old man.

Once again please answer technically to this.

Do you use a series hybrid or parallel hybrid...?

thanks for the conversation..please reply

[Pericles]

  On 11/29/2013 at 10:23 AM, zee boy said:

but there could be scenarios like this-

During the 5 years of time GOV will increase the taxation of hybrid vehicles for sure and you will be able to sell it for a decent price by then..

[Pericles]

  On 11/29/2013 at 11:18 AM, zee boy said:

You guys seems like very uneducated bunch of people who live in a small world and try to act like heros in thr own cyber space (but certainly loosers in real world..)

2,3 years back I can remember the same set of people was yelling at all the hybrid threads claiming that hybrid cars do not have any future potential and they are for beggars but petrol cars are the one, hybrid is a rubbish technology etc... these guys do not try to accept new technologies and hate to adopt to a change..they thing all they have is the best in the world and the rest have the worst ... may be it's due to the education level or social level of them..they do not even know that resell value is a common fact to consider before anyone buy a car.. resell value is a global fact and not specific to a country...

but anyways we should appreciate the effort they put in to maintain this site

You remember this from 2-3 years back when you have an account only a few months old?

I really hate people who maintain multiple accounts so they can try to raise demand to sell their cars by spreading lies. Give me one good reason not to ban this account today.

[The Don]

  On 11/29/2013 at 11:18 AM, zee boy said:

You guys seems like very uneducated bunch of people who live in a small world and try to act like heros in thr own cyber space (but certainly loosers in real world..)

2,3 years back I can remember the same set of people was yelling at all the hybrid threads claiming that hybrid cars do not have any future potential and they are for beggars but petrol cars are the one, hybrid is a rubbish technology etc... these guys do not try to accept new technologies and hate to adopt to a change..they thing all they have is the best in the world and the rest have the worst ... may be it's due to the education level or social level of them..they do not even know that resell value is a common fact to consider before anyone buy a car.. resell value is a global fact and not specific to a country...

but anyways we should appreciate the effort they put in to maintain this site

I will simply say this.

There is a very well known taxi company who runs a fleet of Prius 2nd generation cars. I recently had the pleasure of riding in one and noted that the fuel economy was around 12-13 in slow city running. I asked the driver why is it so low considering this is exactly the scenario that advanced hybrids (the Toyota Hybrid synergy drive system) excels in. He said when they first got the cars they used to return excellent fuel economy but now after many miles (I was also told the mileage had been doctored in the car) the battery was too weak so the engine kept cutting in even at very slow speeds leading to a decrease in fuel economy.

A Hybrid battery is only rated for a life time of about 5 years. This is a fact and with current battery technology we can't really achieve something better than this. And as you know Lithium iron batteries have issues in commercial usage as the issues with the Boeing 787 demonstrates.

Renault actually sells their electric cars through a battery hire scheme so the battery will get replaced in time.

So the degenerative fuel economy added with the recurring cost of replacement of batteries, coupled with limited expertise and dodgy mechanics makes hybrids still not an easy sell in Sri Lanka.

And ironically a lot of said this years ago and this has been proven to be true.

I mean I'm not exaggerating matters here. I can't get a UPS battery in Sri Lanka which lasts more than a year.

And I'd rather not comment on our education level

[The Don]

  On 11/29/2013 at 11:30 AM, bumblebee said:

Watchman,

I think you have got older with a seductive hybrid language to blow your own trumpet...What I seek here is wisdom from decent people.If you dont tolerate this arguement please keep aloof.Dont shit aside your commode.You have not answered whatever ,but only spreading sarcasm and insults...poor attitudes lucrative old man.

Once again please answer technically to this.

Do you use a series hybrid or parallel hybrid...?

thanks for the conversation..please reply

I know your question was directed to Watchman, though I'm curious as to what you mean by a series hybrid or a parallel hybrid as I have not heard those terms before.

The terms I've heard are full hybrid, mild hybrid and plug in hybrid.

The only full hybrids in the SL market are cars which use the Toyota Hybrid Synergy drive system, where there is no direct connection between the engine and the wheel, and the car maybe powered by battery only or battery plus engine combination. This is the most efficient system.

The Honda IMA system is considered a mild hybrid where electric power is used to assist the drive train so the car cannot be run on electric power alone.

Plug in hybrids are hybrids where the car can be plugged into the mains to charge up the battery

[kush]

One must understand that the highest cost of having a car in most parts of the world is depreciation.

I think this fact is now relevant in SL context as well, gone are the days that you could buy a Axio or Allion use it for 3 years and sell at a profit.

The only reason I’m not looking at a hybrid is the fear of loosing more in the used market and I don’t do enough running to save a on fuel to compensate.

If one is doing 1500-2000 km monthly I guess you could save enough for a probable replacement battery or to compensate for lower resale value.

Actually due to the duty difference between the hybrids and non hybrids, hybrids make lot of sense.

If I had the money I would be definitely looking at a S400 hybrid which will cost much less than the lower spec S350

[kirala2]

  On 11/29/2013 at 11:30 AM, bumblebee said:

Once again please answer technically to this.

Do you use a series hybrid or parallel hybrid...?

thanks for the conversation..please reply

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle_drivetrains

p.s. I use neither.

[iRage]

  On 11/29/2013 at 3:07 PM, The Don said:

I know your question was directed to Watchman, though I'm curious as to what you mean by a series hybrid or a parallel hybrid as I have not heard those terms before.

The terms I've heard are full hybrid, mild hybrid and plug in hybrid.

The only full hybrids in the SL market are cars which use the Toyota Hybrid Synergy drive system, where there is no direct connection between the engine and the wheel, and the car maybe powered by battery only or battery plus engine combination. This is the most efficient system.

The Honda IMA system is considered a mild hybrid where electric power is used to assist the drive train so the car cannot be run on electric power alone.

Plug in hybrids are hybrids where the car can be plugged into the mains to charge up the battery

Well you can at least give some credit to the guy for reading some theory, but obviously he missed the practical implementation of it.

Series hybrids (theoretically) are ones where only the electric motor can power the drive train. The "fossil fuel" <I just like using that word in front of Hybrid lovers> motor is there just to generate power to charge the battery system or to power the electric motor when the batteries are down (or split between the two). So you get tons of batteries and a small engine to recharge them. I have only seen this in Hybrid/Electric buses in Japan and as far as I know they are not being used by Toyota/Honda/etc on passenger cars...oh...and I guess the electric vehicle that the Top Gear guys made with a diesel generator and a battery is a series hybrid system.

Parallel Hybrid is where the FOSSIL FUEL motor drives the drive train and the electric motor assists the engine when and where necessary. So it is mild and an example would be the IMA.

Series-Parallel Hybrids on the other hand are like full hybrids. The FOSSIL FUEL engine and the electric motor both can power the drive train depending on the circumstances. Just like Toyota's HSD.

So watchman can only either have a parallel or a series-parallel hybrid not a series hybrid...

[abcjayasinghe]

  On 11/29/2013 at 3:07 PM, The Don said:

I know your question was directed to Watchman, though I'm curious as to what you mean by a series hybrid or a parallel hybrid as I have not heard those terms before.

The terms I've heard are full hybrid, mild hybrid and plug in hybrid.

The only full hybrids in the SL market are cars which use the Toyota Hybrid Synergy drive system, where there is no direct connection between the engine and the wheel, and the car maybe powered by battery only or battery plus engine combination. This is the most efficient system.

The Honda IMA system is considered a mild hybrid where electric power is used to assist the drive train so the car cannot be run on electric power alone.

Plug in hybrids are hybrids where the car can be plugged into the mains to charge up the battery

Just googled for types of hybrid technologies out of curiosity and ended up here....http://auto.howstuffworks.com/different-types-of-hybrid-cars.htm

The stuff they talk about though multiple pages supports what Don has already explained..!

[NeroX]

Wow!! So much animosity & hate here. Still it's always interesting to read threads where the admins & hybrid lovers gang up against each other

Adding something to the topic at hand, I believe the long term battery replacement & service costs will diminish the hybrids 2nd hand market considerably. Also given the constant innovation in the field the hybrids, updates are quite rapid causing models to out-date itself quite fast.

Also considering the very long term, hybrid cars are not that Green due to many reasons (energy intensive manufacturing/machining process - light-weight alloys, toxic battery manufacture using earth's rare metals). I'm sure this has been highlighted by someone earlier. Ideal situation is far-thinking governments should strike a balance when promoting such products in their countries. Recycling NiMH or Li-ion batteries are costly & even technologically advanced countries like Japan take the more economical way of disposing their multitude of hybrid vehicles recon to eager countries like SL

Recently I was faced with the dilemma of selling of my perfectly capable Honda Fit(GE6) & upgrade to a hybrid. Bad peer pressure I guess lol.. With the market down that meant I had to fork another Rs. 300k-400k to get a hybrid (This being the Fit Hybrid GP1 which is the cheapest). Problem was I only do around 1000km a month & that would mean I had to drive the hybrid for another 5-6 years to recover the excess. God willing if the battery fails by then I'll be royally screwed with no way to recover. The lesson learnt was that hybrid or gasoline it doesn't make a big difference in the long term. Hence i settled to drive my trusty GE6 until I'm able to upgrade for a more capable drive, hopefully a Civic or an Accord. Rather than worry about fuel economy I prefer the satisfaction of more spirited driving & leaving some ***holes eating my dust once in a while

[Komisiripala]

Thank you, NeroX for restoring my faith in humanity. May god ride shotgun with you. Always.

[zee boy]

  On 11/30/2013 at 5:56 AM, NeroX said:

Wow!! So much animosity & hate here. Still it's always interesting to read threads where the admins & hybrid lovers gang up against each other

Adding something to the topic at hand, I believe the long term battery replacement & service costs will diminish the hybrids 2nd hand market considerably. Also given the constant innovation in the field the hybrids, updates are quite rapid causing models to out-date itself quite fast.

Also considering the very long term, hybrid cars are not that Green due to many reasons (energy intensive manufacturing/machining process - light-weight alloys, toxic battery manufacture using earth's rare metals). I'm sure this has been highlighted by someone earlier. Ideal situation is far-thinking governments should strike a balance when promoting such products in their countries. Recycling NiMH or Li-ion batteries are costly & even technologically advanced countries like Japan take the more economical way of disposing their multitude of hybrid vehicles recon to eager countries like SL

Recently I was faced with the dilemma of selling of my perfectly capable Honda Fit(GE6) & upgrade to a hybrid. Bad peer pressure I guess lol.. With the market down that meant I had to fork another Rs. 300k-400k to get a hybrid (This being the Fit Hybrid GP1 which is the cheapest). Problem was I only do around 1000km a month & that would mean I had to drive the hybrid for another 5-6 years to recover the excess. God willing if the battery fails by then I'll be royally screwed with no way to recover. The lesson learnt was that hybrid or gasoline it doesn't make a big difference in the long term. Hence i settled to drive my trusty GE6 until I'm able to upgrade for a more capable drive, hopefully a Civic or an Accord. Rather than worry about fuel economy I prefer the satisfaction of more spirited driving & leaving some ***holes eating my dust once in a while

Of course hybrid is not worth if you do not do more than 1000Km per month..But do consider about the resell value of your GE6 when you make the calculations.. 2 of my friends bought GE 6 (same YOM, one is maroon and one is sky blue) one bought it for 2.9 mil and after 5,6 months other one bought an one for 2.5 mil.

So think about the depreciating resell value while you consider about losing 100K-200k for a battery...