Toyota Prius, Honda Fit/ Vezel Recall Information

[Rumesh88]

the only sensible question coming after a long-time.

Official Toyota page does NOT mention anything about 3 or 4 hours.So I wonder why the so called "senior" executive at TL(probably some CIMA guy who has no knowledge about Electronics) thinks so.Did he make a calculation,or do a test,or is this the offical stance of TL which seems to differ from their mother company?

http://toyota.jp/recall/2014/0212.html

加速時などの高負荷走行時に、昇圧回路の素子に想定外の熱応力が加わることがあります。そのため、使用過程で当該素子が損傷し、警告灯が点灯して、フェールセーフのモータ走行となります。また、素子損傷時に電気ノイズが発生した場合、ハイブリッドシステムが停止し、走行不能となるおそれがあります。

(during high-load situations such as acceleration,the voltage booster-circuit components may come under unprecedented thermal impact.this leads to damage of these electronic components and turns check-Engine-light ON and enters failsafe mode to prevent further damage.And ,when electronic Noise is generated during the component damage,the complete hybrid system stops and the Vehicle is unable to move.)

my opinion from ECU power-dissipation calculations and Tests is also that number of hours is not a relevant factor,a few seconds in high-engine-load conditions is enough to cause permanent damage to the FET's and Diodes(normally the PCB melts before that) unless proper countermeasures were taken during circuit design.

I was about to ask the same question as "whatever". I just do not understand how a PCB melts at 140C and a design team like Toyota ended up with a system which can fail in a few seconds. Something doesn't sound right here. BTW I just want to figure out whether there is something wrong with my understanding of this thread in the first place.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Rumesh88

[whatever]

IGBTs are also FETs which can handle high-currents.... And you don't need pictures to prove that the Thermal limit of Automotive PCB materials is 140degC.

About fire risks,anyone with a proper Engineering background would understand how a continuos thermal hot-spot inside the computer can cause a fire.(it is a process called FMEA)

The fact is that IGBT and FET are different and 200c can't melt the PCB at all. Before anything can be happened the system will go to fail safe mode according to Toyota!!

[VVTi]

I was about to ask the same question as "whatever". I just do not understand how a PCB melts at 140C and a design team like Toyota ended up with a system which can fail in a few seconds. Something doesn't sound right here. BTW I just want to figure out whether there is something wrong with my understanding of this thread in the first place.

they can if an inbred retard like Osaka dude is in the design team....

[osaka_dude]

The fact is that IGBT and FET are different and 200c can't melt the PCB at all. Before anything can be happened the system will go to fail safe mode according to Toyota!!

you sound like the guy who invented IGBTs,they are normally used for applications near 1000V with lower frequency control.Hybrid system is around 330V max.

and you think there are only IGBTs inside this computer and no FETs/diodes?

Please show me a such a circuit diagram.

and did you check with the Prius PCB @ 200C if it melts?

To get back on-topic,there are 2 ways a component can fail.

unintended Continuos short circuit(latch-up),or continuos open circuit.

Since the FETS are controlling the current to the high-inductive biga$$ AC-motor,very high surge pulses(electronic noise,even +-1000V for hybrid systems) can occur in both failure-modes.

which leads to hybrid-system shutdown acc. to the Toyota press release.

Edited April 22, 2014 by osaka_dude

[VVTi]

1 Kg pork, cut into bite size pieces

20 Dried chillies

2 tsp freshly ground Black Pepper

Piece of a Rampe leaf (about 3 inches)

Stem of a Lemon Grass

Curry leaves

Garlic

Piece of Ginger

5 Cloves

5 Cardamoms

7 pieces of Goraka

10 Red Onions (Rathu Lunu)

2 tsp Roasted curry powder (Thunapha) -

little oil

Salt to taste

Fry the chillies in the little oil until dark.

Grind them with red onions, garlic, ginger, curry leaves and rampe to a fine paste.

Soak the Goraka in some warm water for a few minutes and grind Goraka too to a paste.

Mix the grounded pastes well with the cut meat.

Add black pepper and salt to this mixture.

Add water to cover the contents and cook until the meat is done properly and the water is absorbed to the meat.

At this point sprinkle roasted curry powder over the curry and cook further till the pieces are nicely coated and dry.

This preparation could be kept for about a week without chilling. You may heat the pot daily to preserve it.

here guys, try this... far more interesting than listening to some vesak Budu ras motor technician.

[whatever]

you sound like the guy who invented IGBTs,and you think there are only IGBTs inside the computer and no FETs/diodes?

Please show me a such a circuit diagram.

and did you check with the Prius PCB @ 200C if it melts?

To get back on-topic,there are 2 ways a component can fail.

unintended Continuos short circuit(latch-up),or continuos open circuit.

Since the FETS are controlling the current to the high-inductive biga$$ AC-motor,very high surge pulses(electronic noise,even +-1000V for hybrid systems) can occur in both failure-modes.

which leads to hybrid-system shutdown acc. to the Toyota press release.

Talking nonsense and beating around bush again...

Why should I check? You are the one who saying PCB melt due to overheating.

Where is the fire?

[osaka_dude]

here guys, try this... far more interesting than listening to some vesak Budu ras motor technician.

here we go again,completely unrelated and off-topic.

this is not a cooking forum.

please post your dhadamas-recipe in "Malini's Kitchen"

http://www.infolanka.com/recipes/

You my friend, are reducing the IQ level of this forum below zero.

wonder why the "moderator" does not notice such "posts".

Edited April 22, 2014 by osaka_dude

[VVTi]

I am telling you... try the black pork curry. Marinade the pork in beer first.

[VVTi]

here we go again,completely unrelated and off-topic.

You my friend, are reducing the IQ level of this forum below zero.

wonder why the "moderator" does not notice such "posts".

The Collective IQ of the forum, dropped a few notches the moment you opened these retarded threads.

It is a matter of time before the mods block this thread too... LOL! All thanks to an in bred retard like you.

[osaka_dude]

Talking nonsense and beating around bush again...

Why should I check? You are the one who saying PCB melt due to overheating.

Where is the fire?

hahaha,wait till you graduate from whatever technical institute you are visiting now,then hopefully you will understand about FETs,IGBTs,Inductive pulses,Free-wheeling etc.

[Rumesh88]

Dear O_D this argument getting really interesting now. Being an environmentally responsible OEM (including its subcontractors) like Toyota I am sure they use a RoHS process in fabricating their electronics. The preheat temperature of RoHS process is above 140C and both reflow and peak temperatures are well above 200C. If a PCB melts at these temperatures how do they fabricate them in the first place? BTW IGBTs are more related to bipolar junction transistors (BJTs) than they are to FET both in structure and characteristics. OMG there are relies appearing in this thread faster than I type.

[whatever]

hahaha,wait till you graduate from whatever technical institute you are visiting now,then hopefully you will understand about FETs,IGBTs,Inductive pulses,Free-wheeling etc.

Throw all the words you know. No one will be impressed here !

Edited April 22, 2014 by whatever

[osaka_dude]

Dear O_D this argument getting really interesting now. Being an environmentally responsible OEM (including its subcontractors) like Toyota I am sure they use a RoHS process in fabricating their electronics. The preheat temperature of RoHS process is above 140C and both reflow and peak temperatures are well above 200C. If a PCB melts at these temperatures how do they fabricate them in the first place? BTW IGBTs are more related to bipolar junction transistors (BJTs) than they are to FET both in structure and characteristics. OMG there are relies appearing in this thread faster than I type.

Dear Rumesh, AFAIK 200degC is the Hot-Air temperature inside the reflow machine.The PCB temperatures are way lower than that,and if 140degC is exceeded,it happens only for a few seconds.But if this happens during real operation of the vehicle too often,it degrades the PCB and even lifetime of the solder joints.

[VVTi]

Pig Intestine Soup. far better tasting than it sounds!!!

Ingredients

• 1 pig stomach
• 1 chicken carcass (I used a leftover from a roast chicken which I left in the freezer)
• 1 whole bulb of garlic
• a handful of white pepper, depending on how spicy you like it.
• salt to taste

Click on the link below for instructions.

Instructions

Bring a pot of water to a boil. Blanch the pig stomach in the boiling water for a few minutes. This will remove the cloudiness from the soup. In another pot, bring 6 to 8 cups of water to a boil.Once the water comes to a boil, add in the chicken carcass or any other bones, whole garlic bulb and a small handful of whole white peppers. Once the pig stomach is blanched, transfer them to the soup pot.Bring the soup back to a boil and turn down to heat to simmer for 2 hours.Add salt to taste.

[VVTi]

Dear Rumesh, AFAIK 200degC is the Hot-Air temperature inside the reflow machine.The PCB temperatures are way lower than that,and if 140degC is exceeded,it happens only for a few seconds.But if this happens during real operation of the vehicle too often,it degrades the PCB and even lifetime of the solder joints.

Machang, cant you fix a small fan, like what you would use in a small budu ras motor but with a plastic impeller? That will cool this Major circuit board no? Can't you draw the design with a crayon and give the Japs?

[osaka_dude]

Machang, cant you fix a small fan, like what you would use in a small budu ras motor but with a plastic impeller? That will cool this Major circuit board no? Can't you draw the design with a crayon and give the Japs?

machan,give me a picture of any Engine ECU with a FAN for cooling.

water cooling is used,but only in high-end models like Ferari and Maseratis.And it adds to the cost of the Computer which does not suit mass-production.

I don't think a company like Toyota which focuses on profitability through mass-production takes such measures.

I don't want to be too harsh on any Engineer at Toyota,but it looks like something was overlooked during power dissipation calculations and Tests.

[The Don]

I think it's provided enough entertainment to all concerned, and everybody got to have a go at whoever they wanted to

As such this thread has served its purpose and is now locked.

Osaka_Dude, part of being part of a forum is to first try to get along with people. Being Sri Lankan you would know by now, that respect for one is earned, not given, and acceptance is earned not given away as well.

You have questioned the quality and integrity of the forum, the integrity of the moderators and complained of personal attacks.

This is the most popular automotive forum in Sri Lanka and it's the members who make it such. As such it's a place of dynamic debate and discussion. We the moderators try not to make it into kindergarten, and do not censure people for what amounts to sarcasm, passionate defence of their beliefs, criticism of other members or a bit of banter or humour. We obviously will step into diffuse disputes and personal attacks, but will not take sides unless bullying is obvious, and the complainant has acted with integrity and good faith (and not reacted with the same).

Take note, other members will question you about EVERYTHING, including your credentials, your claim to being an expert etc. etc. Do not take anything for granted.

Why am I writing this? Well by opening duplicate threads, pursuing unnecessary arguments with other members, by failing to establish yourself as an expert before claiming to be one, and finally dragging other mods into this toilet of a thread, you have made our lives miserable. Because you are a newbie, we won't give you any warning points as you have demanded we do for others.

But take this as constructive feedback and try to get along! Next time, you won't find us so understanding.

Edited April 22, 2014 by The Don