Allion Gearbox Noise

Isuru Udana · August 5, 2015

Hi All,

I got an Allion NZT260 2013 G+ model and ODO is still 15K. There is a noise coming from the gearbox when I put into reverse and kept pressing the break paddle for few seconds. Noise last for 5-6 seconds. If I release the break paddle immediately and let the car to move, noise goes away immediately. I am pretty sure that it is coming from the Gearbox. It is there only if the CAR is heated. I showed this to two mechanics and both gave me the same answer. It's a sound of a opening of a valve in the gearbox and not worry too much about it. But I am really worried about this.

I had an Allion 260 2007 model and that didn't had this noise. But I cannot compare with that as two cars got different gearbox types even though the model is NZT260.

However I found the same issue in a Premio 2013 owned by a friend of mine which is manufactured in the same period.

I know that in 2013 Toyota made some changes to 260 gearbox.

I feel like this is a manufacture fault in early 2013 model. I checked with Agents but they said there are no known issues with 2013 Gearbox.

I haven't got a chance to check this in any other car.

So my question is, has anyone who owned a 2013 or later NZT260 (Allion/Premio) has experienced the same issue ?

(you need to turn off your audio setup and AC to hear this)

thou1584 · August 5, 2015

Hello,

I do own a 2014 premio with mileage 3K on it. When i engage the gear to D or R, i get a noise from the brakes because i use it very rarely

After a few minutes it goes away. Check carefully, whether you hear the noise from the gearbox or somewhere else.

Isuru Udana · August 5, 2015

On 8/5/2015 at 9:17 AM, thou1584 said:
Hello,
I do own a 2014 premio with mileage 3K on it. When i engage the gear to D or R, i get a noise from the brakes because i use it very rarely

After a few minutes it goes away. Check carefully, whether you hear the noise from the gearbox or somewhere else.

Hi,

Thanks for the response. I am pretty sure that it is coming from the gearbox. I got this when 7K on the clock. It was there even at that time.

My friend's Premio also has the same millage as mine (15K) now.

Noise is not coming when the engine is cold. Engine need to be heated. I posted this here as I couldn't find another car to check this.

When you get some free time could you please do me a favour by doing the following test.

1. If the engine is cold, drive for 1-2km to get the heat into mid level.

2. Roll down the window, turn off AC and the audio setup

3. Put the gear into R

4. Hear is there any noise coming from the Engine bay left side which last for 5-6 seconds. Noise is like 3wheel beep horn sound (not that loud).

Thanks.

asrock · August 5, 2015

Afaik there is no major difference between the 2007 and 2013 CVT. If you are sure that the sound is coming from the CVT and if you are worried about it I recommend that you show it to these guys. Few people in the forum had recommended them.

Isuru Udana · August 5, 2015

Thanks for the response.

On 8/5/2015 at 10:51 AM, asrock said:
Afaik there is no major difference between the 2007 and 2013 CVT.

There is a difference. Even the CVT oil is different. For 2007 oil is CVT-TC and for 2013 it is CVT-FE

Isuru Udana · August 8, 2015

Anyone having 2013,2014 Allion/Premio, please let me know whether you have experienced the same ?

asrock · August 8, 2015

On 8/8/2015 at 4:39 AM, Isuru Udana said:
Anyone having 2013,2014 Allion/Premio, please let me know whether you have experienced the same ?

Dude I recommend you to go and show this "issue" to a competent CVT mechanic or take it directly to TL they will have a answer.

whmsujith · August 10, 2015

On 8/8/2015 at 4:39 AM, Isuru Udana said:
Anyone having 2013,2014 Allion/Premio, please let me know whether you have experienced the same ?

I have a Premio 2013 with 7k and experince same as what thou1584 does.

gayanath · August 18, 2015

On 8/8/2015 at 4:39 AM, Isuru Udana said:
Anyone having 2013,2014 Allion/Premio, please let me know whether you have experienced the same ?

Dear Friend,

In a CVT gear box, the belt clamping and pulley adjustments are totally depend on hydraulic pressure and there is a complex valve box, pistons, relief valves, etc for the purpose. When the hydraulic oil got heated, you may hear several noises (may be only for few minutes, long time, time to time, etc) and those are normal. If you drive this car from Kandy to Nuwaraeliya or Hatton to Nuwaraeliya, you may identify several other noises too due to heating the oils due to load.

I have experienced this with Toyota Vitz with CVT box several times when I go upcountry, but I have used the car more than 70k but nothing happened. Still the gear box is with very good condition.

Do not think much about it. I think your car is in good condition.

Note: Let's say if some thing wrong in your gear box. I guess you cant find any good mechanic for repair it. Most of the time, replacing it with used one is more reliable than repairing it due to complexity. So don't think so much about mechanical stuff other than on time maintenance. (keep in mind that, no need to change your CVT oil more frequently. Toyota recommending (not Toyo** La*** who always try to take money from us) more than 100k km intervals but I suggest to change it withing 80k or 4 years for safe side.)

asrock · August 18, 2015

On 8/18/2015 at 12:43 PM, gayanath said:
(keep in mind that, no need to change your CVT oil more frequently. Toyota recommending (not Toyo** La*** who always try to take money from us) more than 100k km intervals but I suggest to change it withing 80k or 4 years for safe side.)

Dude are you serious?

Isuru Udana · August 18, 2015

Hi Friend,

On 8/18/2015 at 12:43 PM, gayanath said:
Dear Friend,
In a CVT gear box, the belt clamping and pulley adjustments are totally depend on hydraulic pressure and there is a complex valve box, pistons, relief valves, etc for the purpose. When the hydraulic oil got heated, you may hear several noises (may be only for few minutes, long time, time to time, etc) and those are normal. If you drive this car from Kandy to Nuwaraeliya or Hatton to Nuwaraeliya, you may identify several other noises too due to heating the oils due to load.

I have experienced this with Toyota Vitz with CVT box several times when I go upcountry, but I have used the car more than 70k but nothing happened. Still the gear box is with very good condition.

Do not think much about it. I think your car is in good condition.

Thanks a lot for the response. Good to hear that someone else has noted a similar issue

On 8/18/2015 at 12:43 PM, gayanath said:
Note: Let's say if some thing wrong in your gear box. I guess you cant find any good mechanic for repair it. Most of the time, replacing it with used one is more reliable than repairing it due to complexity. So don't think so much about mechanical stuff other than on time maintenance. (keep in mind that, no need to change your CVT oil more frequently. Toyota recommending (not Toyo** La*** who always try to take money from us) more than 100k km intervals but I suggest to change it withing 80k or 4 years for safe side.)

TL says it's 40K km or 2years.

gayanath · August 19, 2015

On 8/18/2015 at 1:22 PM, asrock said:
Dude are you serious?

On 8/18/2015 at 3:58 PM, Isuru Udana said:
Hi Friend,
Thanks a lot for the response. Good to hear that someone else has noted a similar issue

TL says it's 40K km or 2years.

I will attache two maintanace shedules which issued for europian vehicles as its difficult to find for JDM vehicles. by kowing those are difficult to find, local agents are telling lots of rubbish to us. I have downloaded same for several vehicles but the schedule is almost same. Please see page 3 for Transmission fluids. Under this it was mentioned,

Toyota Genuine CVTF TC

Normal conditions: Inspection at 60,000 km or 48 months, not mention about replacing but lets consider as 120,000 km

Severe Condition: Inspection at 45,000 km or 36 months, Replace at 90,000 km or 72 months

See next attachement which describs severe conditions.

I saw another document telling, "after first replacement, more frequent replaces required as we cannot replace entire fluids and some amount will remain inside which will mixed with old fluid." which means when your car getting older (lets say more than 150,000 km ODO), better to follow 40,000 km intervels.

iRage · August 19, 2015

LOL...I see the usual person is back telling people not to change oils

@asrock and @isuru. Same person made the same argument several times about change intervals only to have no one take it seriouly due to loop holes and misconceptions on the person's part. Just search the forum for details. At the end of the day it is up to u if u go by what the manufacturers' own agents say, what a bunch of petrol heads say or what some guy with a car and google says. After all it is u who will be assuming the risk.

ramishkad · August 19, 2015

@Gayanath

If your vehicle has a CVT gearbox there are only few rules to follow if you want it to last a while -

- Dont cheap out on oil changes

- Use the manufacturer recommended oil

Oil changes at 80k and 100k intervals seem too long and if I were you, hell i'd do it at least every 30k just to be sure. CVT box isnt something you should be messing with. Thank god you are not driving a car with Honda CVT with that mindset. I change oil every 15k-20k km on that.

gayanath · August 20, 2015

On 8/19/2015 at 2:50 PM, iRage said:
LOL...I see the usual person is back telling people not to change oils
@asrock and @isuru. Same person made the same argument several times about change intervals only to have no one take it seriouly due to loop holes and misconceptions on the person's part. Just search the forum for details. At the end of the day it is up to u if u go by what the manufacturers' own agents say, what a bunch of petrol heads say or what some guy with a car and google says. After all it is u who will be assuming the risk.

On 8/19/2015 at 3:22 PM, ramishkad said:
@Gayanath
If your vehicle has a CVT gearbox there are only few rules to follow if you want it to last a while -

- Dont cheap out on oil changes

- Use the manufacturer recommended oil

Oil changes at 80k and 100k intervals seem too long and if I were you, hell i'd do it at least every 30k just to be sure. CVT box isnt something you should be messing with. Thank god you are not driving a car with Honda CVT with that mindset. I change oil every 15k-20k km on that.

Dear iRage & ramishkad,

Could you please send me any document issued by Manufacture (Toyota / Honda) to support your ideas.

Dear ramishkad,

I have one more question. Why you are not recomending 10k intervels rather than 15k-20k to lesser the risk?

ramishkad · August 20, 2015

On 8/20/2015 at 4:40 AM, gayanath said:
Dear iRage & ramishkad,
Could you please send me any document issued by Manufacture (Toyota / Honda) to support your ideas.

Dear ramishkad,

I have one more question. Why you are not recomending 10k intervels rather than 15k-20k to lesser the risk?

Manufacturer documents do not consider the climate and road conditions of Sri Lanka. Either way, it's up to you to either do it or not do it. I'm particular when it comes to vehicle care and I sometimes replace parts to repair the smallest faults in my vehicle which 99% of others would not even notice. I merely suggested what I do and my experience - it doesn't mean you have to do the same. If you are willing to change at 100k and if it goes well, good for you buddy.

As for your second question about not changing at 10k intervals, that would be ridiculous wouldn't it?

iRage · August 20, 2015

Do u really think TMC-Japan/HQ/RHQ publishes manuals for each and every country they sell cars in (especially in regions for models they never intended to sell?) Most service manuals I have seen say refer to local/nearest authorised Toyota (or other manufacturer) for specific information (the very same ppl you claim to rip everyone off with made up stories to scare its customers).

The document u keep citing are general guidelines/requirments. Something which every manufacturer does and customized as needed by each country specific agent for the brand. So if Toyota Lanka recommends 40K and x months it is best to take it as manufacturer's recommendation.

I and a whole lot of other members discussed the same matter with u extensively in a different thread so I am not going to waste more time on u.

Edited August 20, 2015 by iRage

Clark's son · August 20, 2015

Initially when the NZT260s where 1st brought to sri lanka i asked the agents and they said the box was maintenance free and only needed checking of oil, but i was suspicious.

Now they are telling it needs 40 000km oil changes and rightly so, sometimes bad experiences from sri lankan users may have lead the company to advice on this.

Balance the cost of replacing a new gearbox and doing frequent oil changes,

Then you can understand what to do.

Isuru Udana · August 21, 2015

As I understood, ATF in a normal automatic gearbox used as a medium to transfer the power. But in CVT, ATF is used as a lubricant where the power transfer happens through the CVT belt. We need to change ATF in a normal automatic box in 40K, I guess with CVT box we should be able to do more. Few years back I heard the same as what "Clark's son" mentioned. However we don't need to take any risk just to save Rs.13k though

I am doing my regular services from TL. They didn't suggest me to do a ATF change so far even though car is 2+ years old now.

But I got it done from some other place even at 15K on the clock as now car is 2years old and just to see whether noise goes off with that.

Back to the original topic,

I found another car manufactured in 2012/12 (same model) which has the same noise. So it looks like a common issue which I should not worry too much.

Thanks a lot for all the responses.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Isuru Udana

gayanath · August 21, 2015

not only normal auto box, toyota cvt box too having a torqe converter and power transmission medium is the oil. Belt is for alternative to planetery gear meshes and it will keep vertualy infinite ratios

No torqe converter inside Toyota hybrid transaxel.

One more thing,

CVT belt drive is little bit noicy speacialy in low ratios (low speeds) than normal auto box.

There is a trickey point when changing CVT fluid. Level adjustment should be done in proper manner. TL may know that. But most of service person not follow it. (I have several personal expierinces). So keep it in mind. Finally Your Gbox will ruin not due to a manufacturing fault but due to incorrect changing procedure.

Isuru Udana · August 21, 2015

On 8/21/2015 at 6:22 PM, gayanath said:
There is a trickey point when changing CVT fluid. Level adjustment should be done in proper manner. TL may know that. But most of service person not follow it. (I have several personal expierinces). So keep it in mind. Finally Your Gbox will ruin not due to a manufacturing fault but due to incorrect changing procedure.

Yeah. Not everyone knows about how to do it properly. Even some people don't know the correct fluid to use.

Seeker LK · September 1, 2015

On 8/21/2015 at 6:27 PM, Isuru Udana said:
Yeah. Not everyone knows about how to do it properly. Even some people don't know the correct fluid to use.

I hope probably places like TL, AutoM**aj people know how to do it. Otherwise we are all fished up big time.