Greatest Automotive Nation?

[isurujosh]

Greatness is such a subjective thing, isn't it. So your choice is as good as mine. So please take some time out to vote for the greatest automotive nation in your book and state why.

I have included...

UK: This is my choice. More I read about great cars more I am inclined to believe that Brits are the best in building cars. Be it the Mclaren F1, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Lotus, Caterham, Aston Martin they all are very British and have some mystique greatness. Most other car makers in the world borrow expertise from british, sometimes eventhough the nameplate might read non-british the technology and philosophy really come from Britain. I recently even read that although Audi is renowned for 4WD quattro, the first 4WD cars were from Britain. But like all British car makers thay had not made profits and been forced to shut down. I don't think greateness has to be associated with "profits" so I vote Brit

Germany: Need I say more... Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW ... (Or eventhough Bugatti is really a French nameplate, I consider Veyron German more than any other)

Italy: Characterrised by the ever so raging and fierce battle between Farrari and Lambo.

Japan: They certainly make things perfect.

USA: I remain silent and let you decide.

France: Oh! they made the Bugatti Royale and they own the nameplate.

Sri Lanka: At the end of the day, we make the most out of the least . And how can I not give any choice for the Patriotic membership of our forum.

I hope I have not missed any other serious contender for this title. (PLZZZZ not India Ok!)

[isurujosh]

2. The first true 2+2 GT was the Lancia Aurelia B20 - also one of the most beautiful cars ever - 1950 Italy

"Lancia" another forgotten great hero. weldone gentlemen, very good info brought out. bdw the huge propoganda for the euro's seem to be giving results... for germany in particular... any of u who voted jap wanna reverse their vote now?

[Asanka76]

"Lancia" another forgotten great hero. weldone gentlemen, very good info brought out. bdw the huge propoganda for the euro's seem to be giving results... for germany in particular... any of u who voted jap wanna reverse their vote now?

The reason is when you go deep into the history europe has more to offer than Japan. we cant forget that Japan car industry is still maturing. (or already they are). I am sure Toyota 4WD will have the same prestige one day which Landrover currently enjoying. but we have to wait and see. What japs are good at is doing simple things right. thats why they succeed in the mass market.

can anyone name a Jap car which we can see as a vintage. the reason is simply their car industry is not that old enough. but surely in the future they wil.

Germany in other hand ware building cars for decades and still remains as one of the biggest players in automotive industry. They simply built the first car and then they went to master the art of building great cars. so my point of view they are well deserve to be the "Greatest Automotive Nation" in the planet

cheers

[Devinda_Z]

can anyone name a Jap car which we can see as a vintage. the reason is simply their car industry is not that old enough. but surely in the future they wil.

yup thats exactly é cse its jus not old enought

BUT there is one classic Jap car n its cult classic - é 1st of é Z cars as Supra_Natural mentioned

é 1970's evloved JAPANESe Jag E type - é 240z

Edited February 6, 2007 by Pericles

[GTAm]

yup thats exactly é cse its jus not old enought

BUT there is one classic Jap car n its cult classic - é 1st of é Z cars as Supra_Natural mentioned

é 1970's evloved JAPANESe Jag E type - é 240z

I really love the 240Z. None of the other Z cars have captured the magic of the 1st one IMHO. It's a real classic! The 2000GT is cool too but I think in th eend the Z has cleaner lines and is less fussy.

I really love the 240Z. None of the other Z cars have captured the magic of the 1st one IMHO. It's a real classic! The 2000GT is cool too but I think in th eend the Z has cleaner lines and is less fussy.

But I have to add again it's only two cars from the whole industry. Ok I would consider an RX-7 as well but that's as far I can stretch .

[Devinda_Z]

speaking of those i saw an early FB on the market - seemed like it'd been looked after - would make a nice addition to ur collction dont ya think GTAm?

nice red - stock ,or so it seemed

on Z's : has anyone seen what seemes to be to a 260Z rotting n rusting away on the side of the Gangaramaya temple??!!

[GTAm]

speaking of those i saw an early FB on the market - seemed like it'd been looked after - would make a nice addition to ur collction dont ya think GTAm?

nice red - stock ,or so it seemed

on Z's : has anyone seen what seemes to be to a 260Z rotting n rusting away on the side of the Gangaramaya temple??!!

Sorry but what's an FB?

Yes that white 260Z seems to be in a sorry state. The monk is getting old so hopefully someday soon he'll decide to sell it.

[harshansenadhir]

being bias to Peugeot I indeed voted for france.. seems thats only me who voted for france.. When I searched about 504s for the very first time in 2002.. it was a surprise to see the features and the model range it had in 1968 (the year Peugeot officially released 504, but were designing and manufacturing them in mid 60s) the car had all 4 independent susp with all 4 disks , automatic and fuel injection (TI) versions were avalable.. it was the first passenger car / sedan to have 100bhp.. it had all safety measures such as car won't move unless you wear the seat belts etc. and one excellent master piece from france is citroen DS.. and talking about diesels they were among the very first to release diesel passenger cars and common rail and diesels are more popular in the europe as a result of PSA improving them to get more 'n more fuel efficiency. new 607, 407, 307 are some popular examples for such diesels..

[Devinda_Z]

yup those Diesels are very good - infact they were developed in conjuction with FORD by é PSA group - they feature not pnly in the Pugs but also in newer Citroën's , Ford's as well as in Land Rovers in é form of the TD5 & TD6

Sorry but what's an FB?

Yes that white 260Z seems to be in a sorry state. The monk is getting old so hopefully someday soon he'll decide to sell it.

é FB was é 1st generation RX7 launched in the mid 80's - it was the forerunner to the FC-series better known as é "Savanah"

http://rx7.free.fr/saprest.html

[milindu]

Sorry but what's an FB?

Yes that white 260Z seems to be in a sorry state. The monk is getting old so hopefully someday soon he'll decide to sell it.

I asked him about the Z. Apparently its owned by someone (Sri Lankan) living in Japan. From what he told me, the car is under the owners name but has been gifted to the temple. They have done up the car recently it seems (at least the mechanicals).

Anyone know of a Z for sale?

[GTAm]

being bias to Peugeot I indeed voted for france.. seems thats only me who voted for france.. When I searched about 504s for the very first time in 2002.. it was a surprise to see the features and the model range it had in 1968 (the year Peugeot officially released 504, but were designing and manufacturing them in mid 60s) the car had all 4 independent susp with all 4 disks , automatic and fuel injection (TI) versions were avalable.. it was the first passenger car / sedan to have 100bhp.. it had all safety measures such as car won't move unless you wear the seat belts etc. and one excellent master piece from france is citroen DS.. and talking about diesels they were among the very first to release diesel passenger cars and common rail and diesels are more popular in the europe as a result of PSA improving them to get more 'n more fuel efficiency. new 607, 407, 307 are some popular examples for such diesels..

Harsha sorry to spoil your fun a bit........I like Peugeots too, but....

In 1968 there were many sedans with over 100bhp. Think of the Merc large saloon or any Jag or Lancia saloon. Even in the 50's they were pumping out a lot more than 100 sometimes more than 200.

If you say that they were luxury cars, the Fiat 125S had 100bhp in 1968, The Alfa Giulia TI Super had 112bhp in 1963, The Opel Kapitan had 100 in 64, and if I'm not mistaken the Citroen DS 2.2 had over 100 as well.

Also common rail diesel was invented by Fiat. They patented it to Bosche.

[GTAm]

yup those Diesels are very good - infact they were developed in conjuction with FORD by é PSA group - they feature not pnly in the Pugs but also in newer Citroën's , Ford's as well as in Land Rovers in é form of the TD5 & TD6

é FB was é 1st generation RX7 launched in the mid 80's - it was the forerunner to the FC-series better known as é "Savanah"

Thanks for that. Did not know it was called FB. I always refered to it as Series 1, 2, etc. Yes I was hunting for one high and low after I missed a blue 260Z.

Then I stumbled upon my Giulia and it was lust and first sight. One drive and it was love and the whole Alfa thing took over and now I have 3 classic Alfa coupes. So right now no money or space for another classic.

Btw I think the TD5 in the LR was a BMW engine only the V6 is the Ford/Peugeot unit.

[Devinda_Z]

Btw I think the TD5 in the LR was a BMW engine only the V6 is the Ford/Peugeot unit.

i apolgize for the slight inaccuracy on é TD5 - however i should clear any misconception that BMW had anythin to do with the TD5

é TD5 develpoment began in 1993 under the code name "STORM" - é only credit bmw can take was for approving this fully LR developed enigne for production

é TD6 however is buit at Jaguar/Fords Dagenham plant for use by both PSA group,Jags &LR

é follwoing engines are made in colaboration with PSA group by Ford =

2.2 L (2179 cc) Diesel DW12 on the new Freelander2

2.4 L (2402 cc) Duratorq ZSD-424 - turbocharged & intercooled Diesel - Defender 2007/8

2.7 L V6 Turbo Diesel - Disovery3 & Range Rover

3.6 L the TDV8 Twin Turbo Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI) engine block - Range Rover& RR sport 2007

[fuzzo]

Thanks for that. Did not know it was called FB. I always refered to it as Series 1, 2, etc. Yes I was hunting for one high and low after I missed a blue 260Z.

i checked out one fb that was for sale and that was no where close to having originial internals... they have mucked with it so much that it would be too costly for restoration

there was also a 12 sri 280z that was for sale. about 5 years ago, they only wanted 600k for the car. still looking for that car.

[Devinda_Z]

i checked out one fb that was for sale and that was no where close to having originial internals... they have mucked with it so much that it would be too costly for restoration

there was also a 12 sri 280z that was for sale. about 5 years ago, they only wanted 600k for the car. still looking for that car.

was this FB é RED one as per é M*t*r MAg??

[Fiat]

Hey there GTAm!

Can't let go a fellow Italiatzi alone in this forum so I've come to join in the fun after a long standing silence..

Oh btw, i saw a fiat UNO 65 going at 450.. Do u think it is worth it? Still in good mint condition with its WEBER Carb still kicking the good mix and the body is looking good, the number is 14-...

Oh one more thing there is a Borgward Isabella for sale if you are interested..

Cheers!

[fuzzo]

was this FB é RED one as per é M*t*r MAg??

yes this is the one i'm talking about...do you know where it is?

[GTAm]

Hey there GTAm!

Can't let go a fellow Italiatzi alone in this forum so I've come to join in the fun after a long standing silence..

Oh btw, i saw a fiat UNO 65 going at 450.. Do u think it is worth it? Still in good mint condition with its WEBER Carb still kicking the good mix and the body is looking good, the number is 14-...

Oh one more thing there is a Borgward Isabella for sale if you are interested..

Cheers!

Welcome (back) FIAT. I'm relatively new to AL so did not see you b4.

Uno has to be a 60 not a 65. There were the later 45s as well. The numbers denote to the power output in PS. 450 seems steep. I heard the pre-face lift cars go at around 350k. The face lift 19- cars more like 550k.

How much for the Isabella? What condition?

[Fiat]

Welcome (back) FIAT. I'm relatively new to AL so did not see you b4.

Uno has to be a 60 not a 65. There were the later 45s as well. The numbers denote to the power output in PS. 450 seems steep. I heard the pre-face lift cars go at around 350k. The face lift 19- cars more like 550k.

How much for the Isabella? What condition?

Hey,

No problem dude. You can call him up i will e-mail you his number.

So you think the Uno 45 is better than the 65?

350k? hmm i thought too it was steep. just wanted to find out the market price. you know of anyone who is selling an Uno for 350k let me know, like to have a look.

Oh btw, I saw an old "Alpine" convertible for sale it had been restored. It was red in color.

Ok now to the argument, I think we can get the looks part too into the picture apart form the technology in argument. The american, Italian, British, etc.. have better looking cars than the JAPS. I dont see James Bond driving a Toyota in his movies you know if anyone has seen it well let me know cos' i like to see it

Cheers!

[milindu]

Hey,

No problem dude. You can call him up i will e-mail you his number.

So you think the Uno 45 is better than the 65?

350k? hmm i thought too it was steep. just wanted to find out the market price. you know of anyone who is selling an Uno for 350k let me know, like to have a look.

Oh btw, I saw an old "Alpine" convertible for sale it had been restored. It was red in color.

Ok now to the argument, I think we can get the looks part too into the picture apart form the technology in argument. The american, Italian, British, etc.. have better looking cars than the JAPS. I dont see James Bond driving a Toyota in his movies you know if anyone has seen it well let me know cos' i like to see it

Cheers!

Don't mind having a look at the Borgward and the Alpine .

[Supra_Natural]

. I dont see James Bond driving a Toyota in his movies you know if anyone has seen it well let me know cos' i like to see it

Cheers!

Errm. try You Only Live Twice - Toyota 2000GT Convertible. and as for your argument that the japs don't make good looking cars, may i personally reccomend that you look at: Toyota 2000GT, Datsun 240Z(Esp the 240ZG Long nose), Mazda RX 7, Mazda Eunos Cosmo (The Original 60's example), Honda NSX Type R and Nissan 300ZX (Z32)

The fact that the europeans found it difficult to acknowledge that the japanese could make cars that verged on greatness doesn't mean we should too...

Edited February 20, 2007 by Supra_Natural

[Supra_Natural]

Harsha sorry to spoil your fun a bit........I like Peugeots too, but....

In 1968 there were many sedans with over 100bhp. Think of the Merc large saloon or any Jag or Lancia saloon. Even in the 50's they were pumping out a lot more than 100 sometimes more than 200.

If you say that they were luxury cars, the Fiat 125S had 100bhp in 1968, The Alfa Giulia TI Super had 112bhp in 1963, The Opel Kapitan had 100 in 64, and if I'm not mistaken the Citroen DS 2.2 had over 100 as well.

Also common rail diesel was invented by Fiat. They patented it to Bosche.

funnily enough I just noticed this, and if i may add my 2c.... almost ANY american four-door sedan of 1968 had well over 250BHP, so they should be considered as well eh?

[isurujosh]

funnily enough I just noticed this, and if i may add my 2c.... almost ANY american four-door sedan of 1968 had well over 250BHP, so they should be considered as well eh?

sadly nobody has voted US... may be coz of president bush ... i think americans build some good value for money cars like the corvette (the only real super car i have ridden in )... their cars got character eventhough they lack fine tuned technology.

who'd not want a 67 mustang in his garage...

[Gummybr]

i apolgize for the slight inaccuracy on é TD5 - however i should clear any misconception that BMW had anythin to do with the TD5

é TD5 develpoment began in 1993 under the code name "STORM" - é only credit bmw can take was for approving this fully LR developed enigne for production

é TD6 however is buit at Jaguar/Fords Dagenham plant for use by both PSA group,Jags &LR

é follwoing engines are made in colaboration with PSA group by Ford =

2.2 L (2179 cc) Diesel DW12 on the new Freelander2

2.4 L (2402 cc) Duratorq ZSD-424 - turbocharged & intercooled Diesel - Defender 2007/8

2.7 L V6 Turbo Diesel - Disovery3 & Range Rover

3.6 L the TDV8 Twin Turbo Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI) engine block - Range Rover& RR sport 2007

2.2litre is used in Pug as well in the 407, 2.7 is shared with citroen, pug.

[GTAm]

Hey,

No problem dude. You can call him up i will e-mail you his number.

So you think the Uno 45 is better than the 65?

350k? hmm i thought too it was steep. just wanted to find out the market price. you know of anyone who is selling an Uno for 350k let me know, like to have a look.

Oh btw, I saw an old "Alpine" convertible for sale it had been restored. It was red in color.

Ok now to the argument, I think we can get the looks part too into the picture apart form the technology in argument. The american, Italian, British, etc.. have better looking cars than the JAPS. I dont see James Bond driving a Toyota in his movies you know if anyone has seen it well let me know cos' i like to see it

Cheers!

The 45 Fire engine is the most modern unit and most economical model too. The 60 engine is older. And yeah I check with a few guys 350k seems like the price for a pre-facelift car.

And yes James Bond drove a Toyota 2000GT in "You only Live Twice".............but then he also drove that crappy Z3 in "Golden Eye". So occasionally 007 can loose his marbles. Oh btw he drove an Alpine in "Dr. No" I think.

I totally agree that apart from the few cars that Supra Natural mentioned that Japs can't design cars even when they copy. Mind you two of those cars were European designed.

As for considering the Americans.........Well the only thing they can claim credit is that Uncle Henry Ford started mass production.

In 1968 their cars may have pumped 250bhp but that more because their roads were wide open and fule was very cheap. But their technology has always been totally outdated when compared with European or Japanese. The Corvette V8 is still push rod for heaven sake!!! Morris Minor tech in 2007 when Europe is talking about camless engines.

[isurujosh]

As for considering the Americans.........Well the only thing they can claim credit is that Uncle Henry Ford started mass production.

In 1968 their cars may have pumped 250bhp but that more because their roads were wide open and fule was very cheap. But their technology has always been totally outdated when compared with European or Japanese. The Corvette V8 is still push rod for heaven sake!!! Morris Minor tech in 2007 when Europe is talking about camless engines.

talk about value for money of push rods.