Buying My First Car

[Hiran Ganegedara]

Hi,

I'm planning to buy my first car in about a month's time. I'm planning to spend around 1.8 million and hope to use the car for about two years.

The current options I have are

1. Toyota Carina AT-210 / AT-212

2. Peugeot 406

I know a little about the general stuff about Carina such as comfort and the availability of spares (my brother-in-law owns one). However I'm not at all familiar with Peugeot 406. I know it's a wonderful car and all that but I know nothing about owning one.

Could someone please enlighten me about 406? I went through the posts related to 406 but they didn't contain much of the information I would like to know.

The questions I have about 406 are

- Is there a significant difference in performance comparing D8 and D9?

- What's better in terms of running costs (including fuel cost), going for a diesel one or a petrol one?

- Are there spare parts readily available in the market?

So what will be the expert opinion, Toyota or Peugeot?

Thanks in advance.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Hiran Ganegedara

[gunat]

At first glance, the Carina is a better choice. Parts are freely available, a well maintained car will last you as long as you want it to. Overall running costs will be good. You probably won't have too much issue when selling the car later.

Peugeot- the agents are disastrous, i'm told that apart from very poor service, they don't keep a extensive inventory of parts. That said, parts are a lot more expensive, and general maintenance will be too. But once you get behind the wheel, its a different story. Performance is probably on par with a Carina, but dynamically the 406 is way ahead. The handling and comfort cannot be matched by a Carina. The late model 2.0 has enough kick, and the build quality is good. However, the residuals are poor- it will be a hard car to resell.

If you're not too concerned about costs or resale, and looking for something comfortable to run around in with a little brand bling, i'd recommend the Peugeot. Although i'm not sure if you'll be able to find a late-model 406 for 1.8 million- the prices i've seen so far are over 2.

good luck

[Ripper]

sorry for trying to out guess you but i think the carina and the 406 are not exactly in the same league if that's the word...

Carina is more for comfort, resale value etc etc... most of the stuff toyotas are associated with

the carina GT is a very decent ride if you can get hold of one

Like Gunat says...406 has better handling but it comes with the usual european car issues...

it'll be a bit difficult to get rid of later...

P11 and civic's are also int that range

and welcome to the AL forums

At first glance, the Carina is a better choice. Parts are freely available, a well maintained car will last you as long as you want it to. Overall running costs will be good. You probably won't have too much issue when selling the car later.

Peugeot- the agents are disastrous, i'm told that apart from very poor service, they don't keep a extensive inventory of parts. That said, parts are a lot more expensive, and general maintenance will be too. But once you get behind the wheel, its a different story. Performance is probably on par with a Carina, but dynamically the 406 is way ahead. The handling and comfort cannot be matched by a Carina. The late model 2.0 has enough kick, and the build quality is good. However, the residuals are poor- it will be a hard car to resell.

If you're not too concerned about costs or resale, and looking for something comfortable to run around in with a little brand bling, i'd recommend the Peugeot. Although i'm not sure if you'll be able to find a late-model 406 for 1.8 million- the prices i've seen so far are over 2.

good luck

[milinda]

sorry for trying to out guess you but i think the carina and the 406 are not exactly in the same league if that's the word...

Carina is more for comfort,

Well I dont think a carina can match 406's independent MacPherson struts, rear double wishbones, toe-links, coil springs and anti-roll bars for comfort

[Ripper]

Well I dont think a carina can match 406's independent MacPherson struts, rear double wishbones, toe-links, coil springs and anti-roll bars for comfort

sorry my bad...i thought the carina was more spacious and comfortable in that sense...

the 406 feels heavier on the road and grips the surface better.... carina feels a bit more taller...

406 has better handling and there are no arguments there and it looks much better

but considering the local car market... the toyota would be the better bet...IMHO

oops almost forgot... the above statement is valid if you're looking for a toyota-like features from the car....

if you want better handling and a more driver's car...it 's the 406 hands down...

But carina GT is also a pretty decent car

Edited October 9, 2007 by Ripper

[GearHead]

Interms of fuel consumption I think the carina would be much more fuel efficient that the 406. the thing about the 406 is that its a heavy car so the 1.8L engine isnt really enough carry all that weight without that much stress on the engine which would cause poor fuel economy.the 2litre version is said to be more efficient that the 1.8l version. But as all the other members pointed out interms of ride comfort and handling the 406 is in a class of its own.Anyway since you are planning to sell the car in 2 yers time my suggestion for you is to go for a carina.It'll hold its value and would be easier to see as well.

[chana]

...the thing about the 406 is that its a heavy car so the 1.8L engine isnt really enough carry all that weight without that much stress on the engine which would cause poor fuel economy.the 2litre version is said to be more efficient that the 1.8l version...

The weight factor mentioned by GearHead may applicable to Carina as well. Its a heavy car compared to the other similar cars in its segment. So, the 1.8l version (AT211) may be a little bit good on petrol than the 1.5l (AT212) (not confirmed though... ). And its 2-4 lakhs pricier than the 1.5 version. (depending on the condition, of cource)

[Supra_Natural]

hi hiran, nice to see you on the forums...

as someone who has used a 406 for quite a while, i can honestly say that if resale value and quick resale are among your priorities, the 406 is not a very good bet for you.... plus, since this is your first car, i'd advise you to avoid it unless you are prepared to spend some time sorting stuff out

the thing with the 406 is that the basic car is just fine, handling and ride comfort are in a COMPLETELY different league compared to a carina, and the peugeot is of course much better looking and more classy...... but the little things are often an issue, such as the electrics, interior trim etc.

your budget of 1.8 million will get the lower end of the 406 scale, so unless you're prepared to spend about 200,000 more it might be adviseable to just go for the carina. a 1.8Si is an excellent choice

if you need any specific info about 406's drop me a mail...

cheers

[Rily]

hi hiran, nice to see you on the forums...

as someone who has used a 406 for quite a while, i can honestly say that if resale value and quick resale are among your priorities, the 406 is not a very good bet for you.... plus, since this is your first car, i'd advise you to avoid it unless you are prepared to spend some time sorting stuff out

the thing with the 406 is that the basic car is just fine, handling and ride comfort are in a COMPLETELY different league compared to a carina, and the peugeot is of course much better looking and more classy...... but the little things are often an issue, such as the electrics, interior trim etc.

your budget of 1.8 million will get the lower end of the 406 scale, so unless you're prepared to spend about 200,000 more it might be adviseable to just go for the carina. a 1.8Si is an excellent choice

if you need any specific info about 406's drop me a mail...

cheers

I totally agree with SN about the matter. Even we had a 406 and it was hard to sell it. I would advice you to go for the Carina. But at the end of the day its your choice.

I need to say one more thing on its day the 406 is trumps. but when it troubles come, you feel they never stop.

R

[GTAm]

Although i'm not sure if you'll be able to find a late-model 406 for 1.8 million- the prices i've seen so far are over 2.

good luck

Really? I think there are quite a few around and it's a buyers market, especially as everyone here agrees that a Pug is hard to shift!

[GTAm]

Well I dont think a carina can match 406's independent MacPherson struts, rear double wishbones, toe-links, coil springs and anti-roll bars for comfort

Very true. I always maintain that the 406 has the ideal suspension set up for our roads. The ride comfort is fantastic. I'm sorry but the Carina is nowhere near. At very low speeds the Carina might offer a soft ride but the moment you step up the pace, comfort goes out of the window. I won't even mention "Handling"!

[JwesT]

Hi,

I'm planning to buy my first car in about a month's time. I'm planning to spend around 1.8 million and hope to use the car for about two years.

The current options I have are

1. Toyota Carina AT-210 / AT-212

2. Peugeot 406

I know a little about the general stuff about Carina such as comfort and the availability of spares (my brother-in-law owns one). However I'm not at all familiar with Peugeot 406. I know it's a wonderful car and all that but I know nothing about owning one.

Could someone please enlighten me about 406? I went through the posts related to 406 but they didn't contain much of the information I would like to know.

The questions I have about 406 are

- Is there a significant difference in performance comparing D8 and D9?

- What's better in terms of running costs (including fuel cost), going for a diesel one or a petrol one?

- Are there spare parts readily available in the market?

So what will be the expert opinion, Toyota or Peugeot?

Thanks in advance.

Having driven both petrol and diesel Carina Ti in SL and having driven 2005 model 407 in the UK for a few weeks, I can assure that there isn't much so called comfort or high speed stability in the 407 than the Carina. And 407 being the newer model I expect it to be equal or better than the older 406.

Can anyone here prove this so called high speed stability of the 406??? I have driven a diesel Carina Ti over 160km/h in a non-carpet road in SL and it was as smooth as anything. I drove a 407 diesel at 100mph on motorway and the bloody thing started vibrating. I felt the car wasn't stable and didn't go beyond 100mph. I have also driven the 407 in a rough 'SL like' road once and I couldn't feel much difference in the comfort level! Only plus points I would give the 407 is the better engine since it had common rail diesel engine, high tech gadgets like automatic vipers, lights, and on board computer and also its more spacious than the Carina. And also it did 47 mpg which is quite good for a big car like 407.

Since u r in SL I would highly recommend u the Carina Ti (Petrol). It is a very good car and holds its value!! In colombo it will do 9 - 10 km/L and outstations 13-14km/L. Diesel one does better on fuel (15 - 16 Km/L outstation) but I heard that the turbo had to be replaced at least every 100,000kms. I'm not quite sure about that.. u better find out about it if u r planning to buy a diesel.

I know a person in SL who sold his brand new 406 diesel just 3 months after he bought it due to reliability issues. In SL conditions it is that bad!!!!

[Kim]

Very true. I always maintain that the 406 has the ideal suspension set up for our roads. The ride comfort is fantastic. I'm sorry but the Carina is nowhere near. At very low speeds the Carina might offer a soft ride but the moment you step up the pace, comfort goes out of the window. I won't even mention "Handling"!

Have you driven a Carina with acceptable tire size's? if so! u must not be telling all this....

[Supra_Natural]

Having driven both petrol and diesel Carina Ti in SL and having driven 2005 model 407 in the UK for a few weeks, I can assure that there isn't much so called comfort or high speed stability in the 407 than the Carina. And 407 being the newer model I expect it to be equal or better than the older 406.

Can anyone here prove this so called high speed stability of the 406??? I have driven a diesel Carina Ti over 160km/h in a non-carpet road in SL and it was as smooth as anything. I drove a 407 diesel at 100mph on motorway and the bloody thing started vibrating. I felt the car wasn't stable and didn't go beyond 100mph. I have also driven the 407 in a rough 'SL like' road once and I couldn't feel much difference in the comfort level! Only plus points I would give the 407 is the better engine since it had common rail diesel engine, high tech gadgets like automatic vipers, lights, and on board computer and also its more spacious than the Carina. And also it did 47 mpg which is quite good for a big car like 407.

Since u r in SL I would highly recommend u the Carina Ti (Petrol). It is a very good car and holds its value!! In colombo it will do 9 - 10 km/L and outstations 13-14km/L. Diesel one does better on fuel (15 - 16 Km/L outstation) but I heard that the turbo had to be replaced at least every 100,000kms. I'm not quite sure about that.. u better find out about it if u r planning to buy a diesel.

I know a person in SL who sold his brand new 406 diesel just 3 months after he bought it due to reliability issues. In SL conditions it is that bad!!!!

this reliability issue that people keep banging on about is a selective thing..... some 406's are absolute dogs while some provide completely unproblematic service..... the key problem here are the agents, with 406 and indeed any other peugeot, "Agent Maintained" is not a good thing! Also (personal opinion), the used 406's imported from europe in droves in 2002/03, which are the ones which have the later reg plates, seem somewhat more problematic than those which came in brand new..

as for the ride comfort/high speed stability issue, i've personally done an indicated 105 MPH down gregory's road at midnight once, felt solid as a rock not to mention miles of driving on typical uncarpeted backlanes and roads at a fair clip, absolutely amazing combo of ride, handling and body control....... and on the comfort front, the 407 is a completely different ballgame because its suspension was tuned with "sports car like" handling as the top priority, so ride comfort on certain surfaces (like most of those we get here) suffers as a consequence..... the 406 is actually MUCH better speaking from experience on Sri Lankan roads..... as Gtam pointed out, it feels as if it could almost have been designed for our roads, much like the old 504's felt.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Supra_Natural

[Supra_Natural]

Have you driven a Carina with acceptable tire size's? if so! u must not be telling all this....

when you say "acceptable" what exactly do you mean?? Gtam im guessing was talking about the stock tyre/rim setup on the carinas...... any mods would change things considerably...... and again, mods differ from car to car....

stock 406's are in a completely different class mate...... ... have you ever tried one?

[Hiran Ganegedara]

Guys, thank you very much for the comments.

For the moment I'm thinking about going for a Carina, since this is my first car and the resale value is high.

Since u r in SL I would highly recommend u the Carina Ti (Petrol). It is a very good car and holds its value!! In colombo it will do 9 - 10 km/L and outstations 13-14km/L. Diesel one does better on fuel (15 - 16 Km/L outstation) but I heard that the turbo had to be replaced at least every 100,000kms. I'm not quite sure about that.. u better find out about it if u r planning to buy a diesel.

A friend of mine who's into car sales told the same thing about Carina diesels. So I think I'll go for a Carina Ti.

I'm not sure whether I'll find a GT for the budget I have planned, but I have to find out and see.

I'll update the thread as things progress.

Thank you once again

[JwesT]

Have you driven a Carina with acceptable tire size's? if so! u must not be telling all this....

Exactly mate! most of the guys here just talk big without any experience in driving it.. assuming this and that wouldn 't help a new buyer. give good useful info for a new buyer not the stupid google knowledge..

[Arc Angel]

P11 and civic's are also int that range

and welcome to the AL forums

guys, this has turned in to a 406 vs. carina debate...

Hiran, are those the ONLY two options you have? 1.8 mil is a lot of dough to keep your options limited bro.. look around....

unless your really in a hurry, you should look at other options as well (like Hondas )

[GTAm]

Exactly mate! most of the guys here just talk big without any experience in driving it.. assuming this and that wouldn 't help a new buyer. give good useful info for a new buyer not the stupid google knowledge..

FYI I have driven many Toyotas including Carinas, Allions Corollas etc. They have nothing special about them, nothing memorable and they don't handle if you know what handling means.

[GTAm]

Having driven both petrol and diesel Carina Ti in SL and having driven 2005 model 407 in the UK for a few weeks, I can assure that there isn't much so called comfort or high speed stability in the 407 than the Carina. And 407 being the newer model I expect it to be equal or better than the older 406.

Can anyone here prove this so called high speed stability of the 406??? I have driven a diesel Carina Ti over 160km/h in a non-carpet road in SL and it was as smooth as anything. I drove a 407 diesel at 100mph on motorway and the bloody thing started vibrating. I felt the car wasn't stable and didn't go beyond 100mph. I have also driven the 407 in a rough 'SL like' road once and I couldn't feel much difference in the comfort level! Only plus points I would give the 407 is the better engine since it had common rail diesel engine, high tech gadgets like automatic vipers, lights, and on board computer and also its more spacious than the Carina. And also it did 47 mpg which is quite good for a big car like 407.

Since u r in SL I would highly recommend u the Carina Ti (Petrol). It is a very good car and holds its value!! In colombo it will do 9 - 10 km/L and outstations 13-14km/L. Diesel one does better on fuel (15 - 16 Km/L outstation) but I heard that the turbo had to be replaced at least every 100,000kms. I'm not quite sure about that.. u better find out about it if u r planning to buy a diesel.

I know a person in SL who sold his brand new 406 diesel just 3 months after he bought it due to reliability issues. In SL conditions it is that bad!!!!

As Supra Natural mentioned the 407 has a sportier suspension layout with wishbones. So it is likely that it will not have a ride as good as the 406 but better handling. I will be driving a 407 soon . Will let you know.

The vibration you got must be a defect with that particular car or the tyre. There could not be an inbuilt problem in a car as successfull as the 407 without news of it in the press.

The Carina at 160 is a bit of a shock to me . Mmust have been on a dead straight road? Or speedo error ? The ones I've driven feel nervous at 120!!!

Also I owned a 406 a couple of years back and so I know about the ride/handling extremely well. My car did not give any trouble accept for a problem with the central locking which was sorted out without much fuss.

However yes the Carina would be the low risk choice and most ppl will opt for low risk. But then like Arc Angel says there are other cars out there in that range as well. Like Hondas or even a Nissan Primera which is nicer to drive than the Carina.

Low risk = Low fun .

[Supra_Natural]

Exactly mate! most of the guys here just talk big without any experience in driving it.. assuming this and that wouldn 't help a new buyer. give good useful info for a new buyer not the stupid google knowledge..

actually, i've owned and used a 406 myself, and driven several 210 series carinas often.... so i actually do know a bit about what they are like

[chana]

I think comparing carinas and Peugeots is baseless as well as useless since they serve for different segments as I understood, or 'not in the same league' as Ripper mentioned. I remember there was an argument for Toyota vs Nissan sometime back which leads to nothing at the end of the day, b'cos buying a car is more or less a personal choice. Since Hiran has made up his mind to go for a Carina, we should help him to buy a good one.

To point out few things;

AT211 - Si - 1.8L version

AT212 - Ti - 1.5L version

AT210- GT - 1.6L version (race version, not economical but fun to drive)

These models are manufactured in 97 and 99 which have some distinct variations like the front grill, rear lights etc. (Kim may be the best person to differentiate the two models since he owns both 97 & 99)

Watch out for the E package version which has no illuminated dashboard, no digital meters, no RPM, 4 nuts (instead of 5) in the wheel etc. which has a lower market price than normal.

(These facts are mentioned by more experienced AL members in different topics, so do a search in the forum...)

[JwesT]

The vibration you got must be a defect with that particular car or the tyre. There could not be an inbuilt problem in a car as successfull as the 407 without news of it in the press.

The Carina at 160 is a bit of a shock to me . Mmust have been on a dead straight road? Or speedo error ? The ones I've driven feel nervous at 120!!!

Like u said it must be a problem with that particular carina u've driven because I have driven 3 different carina Ti s which didn't give vibrations over 120.

Yeah right all the carinas doing 160 has speedo errors while all the 406s doing 350 has accurate speedo..

we all know how reliable the electronics in 406 are

However yes the Carina would be the low risk choice and most ppl will opt for low risk. But then like Arc Angel says there are other cars out there in that range as well. Like Hondas or even a Nissan Primera which is nicer to drive than the Carina.

Low risk = Low fun .

Yes honda civic has a better response engine than carina. But is it as comfortable as a carina? Will it give the same mpg as a carina? I don't think so.

Anyway the original post was about 406 and Carina. If the person wanted to buy a honda or a primera he would have included that in the list.

For someone in SL I would recommend a Toyota over a Peugeot any given day. Anyway this gentleman has decided to go for a Ti which I believe the right choice. End of the story.

[VVTi]

[However yes the Carina would be the low risk choice and most ppl will opt for low risk. But then like Arc Angel says there are other cars out there in that range as well. Like Hondas or even a Nissan Primera which is nicer to drive than the Carina.

Low risk = Low fun cool.gif .]

Amen to that. Apart from the 406 and the Carina (both great cars, mind you) I can personally recommend a EK3 or a P11. Having owned both (Current p11) I can safely say you have a winner in both. Trouble free (if you do all service and maintenance on time and without feeling stingy). YOu will see years of trouble free running with a car that any basic garage will be able to help you out with. But my bet is the P11. Loads of fun and reliable.

[GearHead]

having driven most of the honda models and many toyota carinas i agree with JwesT,toyota carina would be much more comfortable than the equivalent honda model and it would do a better MPG as well.

I have driven a diesel carina above 130kmh but i didnt get any of the problems that GTAm mentioned in one of his earlier posts, the car was very stable..so as JwesT mentioned may be there was something wrong with that particular carina that you drove..As for the speedo error ,well yes it could happen in one specific carina but not all and oh isnt it the Peugeot that is very popular for those sort of electronic malfunctions ..seens many threads opened on AL by various members regarding this matter.

Anyway my adice for hiran is to get a carina since it'd give trouble free motoring in years to come.