Double Clutching, Heel-toe & Granny Shift

[Iroshana]

Anybody here used to do double clutching, heel-toe or granny shifting?

Most of times I used to rev up the engine for rpm matching when down shifting. The same thing happening in heel-toe. But not really using double clutching except when skipping one or two levels at down shift. Some people says double clutching will help to increase lifetime of syncros in the gearbox but some dont agree with it.

Everybody invited for comments, including racers & auto experts.

[madmax]

Anybody here used to do double clutching, heel-toe or granny shifting?

Most of times I used to rev up the engine for rpm matching when down shifting. The same thing happening in heel-toe. But not really using double clutching except when skipping one or two levels at down shift. Some people says double clutching will help to increase lifetime of syncros in the gearbox but some dont agree with it.

Everybody invited for comments, including racers & auto experts.

You sound like a Leyland bus driver!

Edited March 1, 2008 by madmax

[Iroshana]

You sound like a Leyland bus driver!

Ah.. is it?

Anyway there is some reason for all of those technics. I mean double clutching & heel-toe.

I surprised if Leyland drivers are using heel-toe. Coz in Leyland busses got about 15cm distance between the accelerator and the brake pedal.

[Iroshana]

Anybody here used to do double clutching, heel-toe or granny shifting?

Most of times I used to rev up the engine for rpm matching when down shifting. The same thing happening in heel-toe. But not really using double clutching except when skipping one or two levels at down shift. Some people says double clutching will help to increase lifetime of syncros in the gearbox but some dont agree with it.

Everybody invited for comments, including racers & auto experts.

Would like to share this video which explains heel-toe technic. Before anybody else blaming me that i'm a bus driver

[GTAm]

Anybody here used to do double clutching, heel-toe or granny shifting?

Most of times I used to rev up the engine for rpm matching when down shifting. The same thing happening in heel-toe. But not really using double clutching except when skipping one or two levels at down shift. Some people says double clutching will help to increase lifetime of syncros in the gearbox but some dont agree with it.

Everybody invited for comments, including racers & auto experts.

Great topic Iroshana. Pardon my ignorance but what is Granny shifting?? Doesn't sound very appealing . I had to do a whole lot of double de-clutching to drive my Alfa Romeo Giulia as it crunched in every gear except 5th , until the box gave up the ghost. I hate doing it though. last year I got an opportunity to drive a friends MG Magnet iwhich is in pristine condition but the box is non syncro and called for ddclutching. Annoying coz I need to keep up with two MG B, a Triumph Spitfire and a Fiat 850 spyder. I kept crashing occasionally and I could feel the owner sitting in the passenger seat hold a deep breath !!

On the few occassions that I have been on a track I've tried heel and toeing but I found that controlling the pressure on the throttle (increase/decrease) without taking your foot off completely and a smidgen of left foot brake dabbing was more my style and quicker for me.

Yes it would be nice to see some info/advice from real racing experts please!!!

[ruwds]

http://www.waycoolinc.com/z3/essentials/fi...oe/shifting.htm

[Iroshana]

Great topic Iroshana. Pardon my ignorance but what is Granny shifting?? Doesn't sound very appealing . I had to do a whole lot of double de-clutching to drive my Alfa Romeo Giulia as it crunched in every gear except 5th , until the box gave up the ghost. I hate doing it though. last year I got an opportunity to drive a friends MG Magnet iwhich is in pristine condition but the box is non syncro and called for ddclutching. Annoying coz I need to keep up with two MG B, a Triumph Spitfire and a Fiat 850 spyder. I kept crashing occasionally and I could feel the owner sitting in the passenger seat hold a deep breath !!

On the few occassions that I have been on a track I've tried heel and toeing but I found that controlling the pressure on the throttle (increase/decrease) without taking your foot off completely and a smidgen of left foot brake dabbing was more my style and quicker for me.

Yes it would be nice to see some info/advice from real racing experts please!!!

Regarding Granny shifting, the name says it all. Its nothing but just shifting. No double clutching no heel toe and no race . The gear box will do all for granny shifters. Some people says its a word insulting smart drivers.

You have to do some modification in pedals to do heel-toe if more than enough gap between gas and brake pedal. Remember not to practice it in public roads. If you have a good practice in rpm matching even having syncromesh, it will help to reduce wear & tear of syncros of your gearbox.

Did u see the video i post? It shows clearly heel-toe technic.

[madmax]

Ah.. is it?

I surprised if Leyland drivers are using heel-toe. Coz in Leyland busses got about 15cm distance between the accelerator and the brake pedal.

They sure use double clutching.

[Iroshana]

They sure use double clutching.

Nowadays Leyland drivers are just shifting with help of syncromesh while car drivers double shifting

[Arc Angel]

Please tell us why normal shifting is 'granny shifting'. I've been watching loads of best motoring vidps which show pic in pic of the drivers feet. Nobody EVER double clutches. Looks like you've been watching too much fast and the furious bro

Edited March 1, 2008 by Arc Angel

[Grand Civic]

on top of heel & toe left foot braking also an option which used by racing drivers. don't know anybody tried this option

except some people on their learning times

[darinwrxsti]

Good topic as its related to racing

Heel and toe is used by most of us as the main purpose of it is to ensure a smoother downshift, to prevent any engine brake and reduction in momentum. For example if your on 3rd gear flat and your entering a 2nd gear corner you press the brake firmly and when shifting from 3rd to 2nd in the neutral point you blip the throttle and then put to second gear. This is ensures that the engine rpm matches the wheel rpm hence a smoother shift. This technique also prevent from the wheels locking up when braking hard.

I use left foot braking around the goose neck in katu and up hill climbs . Because there is a time loss when going from the accelerator to the brake and back to the accelerator. However with left foot braking your right foot is always on the throttle while you slow the car with your left foot, and once you get off the break the car shoots forward because your right foot is planted on the throttle. Its very similar to driving a car like a go kart. But it also takes alot of practice to build the sensitivity in your left foot for the brake pedal.

Edited March 1, 2008 by darinwrxsti

[big Daddy]

As far as i know bus/lorry drivers used to double clutch. I think it was something to do with the gear box. I am not sure though... These days hardly people use double clutch with cars or any other new vehicle....

/bigDaddy

[Danasa]

Anybody here used to do double clutching, heel-toe or granny shifting?

Most of times I used to rev up the engine for rpm matching when down shifting. The same thing happening in heel-toe. But not really using double clutching except when skipping one or two levels at down shift. Some people says double clutching will help to increase lifetime of syncros in the gearbox but some dont agree with it.

Everybody invited for comments, including racers & auto experts.

i think it is a good topic to talk about ,heel-toe shifting is used to keep the rpm level of the engine up while the braking and changing gears and this helps not looking the wheels too while braking, so it havs been used during racing (touring car ect) they do heel toe shifting lot. this methord incerases the powre on the wheels while shifting down. i have tryed this and it works well and be safe and if any body try this get used to it on a empty road 1st.

[lakshank]

I am used to a kind of a different technique for defenders...heel on the brake and the toe on gas...When i have to gear down or slow down I give a quick rev from my toes, while my heel does the braking...I didnt know about any of this racing driving stuff...I am so used to it coz in defenders there is a good half a foot difference between the brake & the gas pedal. nevertheless the quick rpm boost during the rapid gear down gives some kind of a pleasure or "kick ass" feeling.

[Watchman]

They sure use double clutching.

haha! yes... one of the any obsercations when ridding the bus sittting on the rail near the engine/driver...

A friend told me that this doulbe clutching is part of the transmission.. According to him, the Layland transmission comes with 2 types fo transmissions one is the regular one where you jsut step on the clutch liek normal.. in the other you have to press the clutch once to disengage the current gear and relase and press the clutch again to enter into the next gear.

So why would you buy the one where you have to press the clutch twice rather than the one wher eyou press just once? well, the latter is about 100,000 bucks more expensive...

This is something a friend told me. Maybe someone with contacts in D*MO or has more knowledge on these transmissions can shed some light on the issue..

[Iroshana]

Please tell us why normal shifting is 'granny shifting'. I've been watching loads of best motoring vidps which show pic in pic of the drivers feet. Nobody EVER double clutches. Looks like you've been watching too much fast and the furious bro

Mm.. not only in fast & furious. I will tell u all about heel-toe & double clutching which i know.

1. Double clutching is really not necessary since we have synchronized gear boxes. However if youre still double clutching at least when down shifting, it will help to reduce stress on synchros in gear box.

-I'm doing this only when skipping gears at downshift.

2. Rev matching is also not necessary if youre not worried about smoothness in gear changing.

-Most of times I'm doing this on 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears. You will get a feeling like youre driving a auto gear car. If you match rev perfectly, nobody feels you changed the gear. I always like to do this also i like to invite u to try. If youre interested, I will tell u the way to do it.

3. Heel-toe is not recommended and really not needed for normal driving. Its going more deeper in physics. Heel-toe is a great technic used to keep the forces in balance when cornering at a race track since we have to use maximum traction which tyres can produce when cornering. Any force could cause under steer or over steer the car.

-Sometimes I'm doing this on road even just for fun. If you like to know i will tell u more on this also.

However I'm not a genius in racing or auto engineering. Above are what I know about shifting. If youre using above technics even on roads, you will never feel sleepy on roads.

[Iroshana]

Good topic as its related to racing

Heel and toe is used by most of us as the main purpose of it is to ensure a smoother downshift, to prevent any engine brake and reduction in momentum. For example if your on 3rd gear flat and your entering a 2nd gear corner you press the brake firmly and when shifting from 3rd to 2nd in the neutral point you blip the throttle and then put to second gear. This is ensures that the engine rpm matches the wheel rpm hence a smoother shift. This technique also prevent from the wheels locking up when braking hard.

I use left foot braking around the goose neck in katu and up hill climbs . Because there is a time loss when going from the accelerator to the brake and back to the accelerator. However with left foot braking your right foot is always on the throttle while you slow the car with your left foot, and once you get off the break the car shoots forward because your right foot is planted on the throttle. Its very similar to driving a car like a go kart. But it also takes alot of practice to build the sensitivity in your left foot for the brake pedal.

Hey its very nice to find an another racer here

[Devinda_Z]

Hey its very nice to find an another racer here

As in you race on track at events govered by the various motoring bodies/clubs in the island?

which category/class to you compete in Iroshana?

[GTAm]

Good topic as its related to racing

Heel and toe is used by most of us as the main purpose of it is to ensure a smoother downshift, to prevent any engine brake and reduction in momentum. For example if your on 3rd gear flat and your entering a 2nd gear corner you press the brake firmly and when shifting from 3rd to 2nd in the neutral point you blip the throttle and then put to second gear. This is ensures that the engine rpm matches the wheel rpm hence a smoother shift. This technique also prevent from the wheels locking up when braking hard.

I use left foot braking around the goose neck in katu and up hill climbs . Because there is a time loss when going from the accelerator to the brake and back to the accelerator. However with left foot braking your right foot is always on the throttle while you slow the car with your left foot, and once you get off the break the car shoots forward because your right foot is planted on the throttle. Its very similar to driving a car like a go kart. But it also takes alot of practice to build the sensitivity in your left foot for the brake pedal.

Thanks. That is very informative. I tried left foot braking around the goose neck too, and it worked extremely well for my timing at our club track day.

How about Copse? I wasn't sure exactly what to do there, but I think I just drifted around it and I think wasn't very neat.

[Iroshana]

As in you race on track at events govered by the various motoring bodies/clubs in the island?

which category/class to you compete in Iroshana?

No category No class. Just racing with bus drivers

[GTAm]

I was also recently given a very brief lesson on "Throttle steer" by an expert. And I experienced it extremely well in a Rwd car. I now see how much quicker one can be around a track by following this principle. However one point I wish to clarify is how successfully can you do it with a Fwd car? I felt my (fwd) Alfa at Katu was very responsive towards this.

[Watchman]

No category No class. Just racing with bus drivers

haha.. machang if thats the criteria for being a racer, everyone on the forum automatically gets upgraded to 'racer' status..

[Watchman]

Good topic as its related to racing

Heel and toe is used by most of us as the main purpose of it is to ensure a smoother downshift, to prevent any engine brake and reduction in momentum. For example if your on 3rd gear flat and your entering a 2nd gear corner you press the brake firmly and when shifting from 3rd to 2nd in the neutral point you blip the throttle and then put to second gear. This is ensures that the engine rpm matches the wheel rpm hence a smoother shift. This technique also prevent from the wheels locking up when braking hard.

I use left foot braking around the goose neck in katu and up hill climbs . Because there is a time loss when going from the accelerator to the brake and back to the accelerator. However with left foot braking your right foot is always on the throttle while you slow the car with your left foot, and once you get off the break the car shoots forward because your right foot is planted on the throttle. Its very similar to driving a car like a go kart. But it also takes alot of practice to build the sensitivity in your left foot for the brake pedal.

wow! interesting concept... never heard of left foot breaking before... and i guess coming from someone like you, i guess its GOTTA work

But i'm confused at one point... isn't it hard to use the clutch when left-food breaking? cos the clutch would hav to be pressed pretty hard as well, right?

[Arc Angel]

wow! interesting concept... never heard of left foot breaking before... and i guess coming from someone like you, i guess its GOTTA work

But i'm confused at one point... isn't it hard to use the clutch when left-food breaking? cos the clutch would hav to be pressed pretty hard as well, right?

actually no. when you left-foot brake you usually don't do it till you come to a full stop (unless it's a WRC type of car, where you pretty much only use the clutch pedal to get out of first or so...). so you pick the optimal gear and apply the brake. while dabbing the gas as and when required. (thats how i tried it anyway.. )

Edited March 3, 2008 by Arc Angel