Audi / Bmw / Vw

[xstreme911]

I have often wondered why cars like Audis and VW's depreciate in value so much and so fast. There just isn't a second hand market for these cars in Sri Lanka and I've often wondered why. To date no one can give me a logical explanation.

In most other countries Mitsubishis, Nissans and other Japanese cars depreciate at a much faster rate (in percentage terms) compared to Audis, VW's, BMW's and Merc's. Here it is the complete opposite where the Japanese cars are generally holding their value after 5 years (generally actually increasing in value!), but these European cars are worth only a fraction of what they were originally bought for.

I have seen Audi A4's (2000 model) having an asking price of Rs. 2 Million. That's almost the same price as a Nissan Sunny N16 (the N16 being slightly cheaper). I can't understand this!

I was thinking of getting either a second hand car 2000 model onwards in either Audi (A4 or A6) or BMW (3 Series) or VW (Passat) - it would be great if someone who knows what they're talking about can give me some advice on which brand and model would be the best buy, as well as any advice on these cars, pricing indications, which will hold value best, ease and economy of maintainance and repairs, cost of running, fuel economy etc.

[The Don]

I have often wondered why cars like Audis and VW's depreciate in value so much and so fast. There just isn't a second hand market for these cars in Sri Lanka and I've often wondered why. To date no one can give me a logical explanation.

In most other countries Mitsubishis, Nissans and other Japanese cars depreciate at a much faster rate (in percentage terms) compared to Audis, VW's, BMW's and Merc's. Here it is the complete opposite where the Japanese cars are generally holding their value after 5 years (generally actually increasing in value!), but these European cars are worth only a fraction of what they were originally bought for.

I have seen Audi A4's (2000 model) having an asking price of Rs. 2 Million. That's almost the same price as a Nissan Sunny N16 (the N16 being slightly cheaper). I can't understand this!

I was thinking of getting either a second hand car 2000 model onwards in either Audi (A4 or A6) or BMW (3 Series) or VW (Passat) - it would be great if someone who knows what they're talking about can give me some advice on which brand and model would be the best buy, as well as any advice on these cars, pricing indications, which will hold value best, ease and economy of maintainance and repairs, cost of running, fuel economy etc.

The fact is they are expensive to maintain and do not have as much prestige attached to it as Mercedes Benz does in the Sri Lankan mentality.

Incidentally the BMW's have quite a decent market in SL.

The thing with Audi, well its a psychological thing mostly ........... and these things change from country to country. I would consider Audi to be a premium brand rather than a prestige brand and the same can be said about VW or Volvo for that matter. They are premium brands in the market segment they operate in. To be a prestige brand you need to associate yourself with something prestigious such as celebrities, heads of state etc, and that is something BMW and Mecedes Benz have that all of these brands do not, to the same degree. And brands like VW don't even try that hard to do that.

The BMW 3 series and the Audi A4 and the Passat defer in this way.

The 3 Series is most certainly the better car, its ride is very well refined, handles beautifully and is certainly a drivers car. But maintenance is expensive and thanks to a lot of electronics BMW put in can become quite complicated to fix when it does brake down especially if the fault is electronic. Parts are quite expensive as well.

The Audi A4 is an easier car to live with and here in the UK has a reputation for being very robust (not breaking down !). And thus throughout its life time is cheaper to maintain. But its not as refined as the BMW, does not handle as well (I am taking pre 2002 Audi A4 here) thanks to being front wheel drive and isn't as fun to drive.

The VW passat, The passat is the easiest car out of this lot to live with. Parts are relatively cheap, maintenance easy and its quite a decent car, but not quite in the same league as the 3 series or the A4. The Passat though marketed as an executive saloon was never meant to be a prestigious car. Its meant for bread and butter motoring and for motorists who appreciate VW quality.

I am obviously talking about the UK market mostly but I'm sure some of the info is still relevant.

But as a rule of thumb the more examples you have on the road the easier it is to find parts and maintain the car which makes the maintenance process cheaper and the car more desirable and hold value.

I think if you want a premium European saloon for a reasonable price the A4 is probably the way to go in my opinion.

[GTAm]

Good thinking mate. Lot of people in SL are very conservative and afraid to take a risk. Mostly because they don't see the whole picture. Usually its the agents themselves who create this scary reputation by ripping off their customers. Let's face it these cars are bought brand new by rich folk. So the high maintainence bills are not much of an issue for them. So I guess the agents are tempted to rip off as much as possible. Which is quite nasty of course and damages the brand in the long term.

If you buy a car with proper service history, that has been maintained by the agents or a good specialist there should be no issue. If the car has been neglected it could end up being a nightmare.

Look at as many cars as possible before making up your mind and buy the car that's in best condition. Also you have to learn what the exact service intervals are not just for lubricants but for other parts like fuel pumps, brakes etc. It's best that your do some research on the internet and join marque forums, so that you get to know the good the bad and the ugly and know what to look for.

After you buy always see that you maintain it with a specialist. Or else the car has the potential to get ruined in the hands of a regular mechanic who is used to Japanese cars only.

If you buy the 'right' car maintainence should not be expensive. To dispel one myth - we replaced the entire suspension on my father's Alfa 156 last year. Dampers, Bushes, arms, shock mounts etc etc. Everything. The dampers were replaced for the first time in the cars' life at 80,000km! It cost us less than 100k including labour. I have friend who spent more than that for his Nissan Primera suspension.

Of the 3 cars you mention the 3 series is likely to be much more expensive than the Audi or VW. Therefore the latter two are bargains. I like the BMW the best but the saving you have (I reckon about 1.5m!?) by buying any of the other two are fantastic.

[VVTi]

Good thinking mate. Lot of people in SL are very conservative and afraid to take a risk. Mostly because they don't see the whole picture. Usually its the agents themselves who create this scary reputation by ripping off their customers. Let's face it these cars are bought brand new by rich folk. So the high maintainence bills are not much of an issue for them. So I guess the agents are tempted to rip off as much as possible. Which is quite nasty of course and damages the brand in the long term.

If you buy a car with proper service history, that has been maintained by the agents or a good specialist there should be no issue. If the car has been neglected it could end up being a nightmare.

Look at as many cars as possible before making up your mind and buy the car that's in best condition. Also you have to learn what the exact service intervals are not just for lubricants but for other parts like fuel pumps, brakes etc. It's best that your do some research on the internet and join marque forums, so that you get to know the good the bad and the ugly and know what to look for.

After you buy always see that you maintain it with a specialist. Or else the car has the potential to get ruined in the hands of a regular mechanic who is used to Japanese cars only.

If you buy the 'right' car maintainence should not be expensive. To dispel one myth - we replaced the entire suspension on my father's Alfa 156 last year. Dampers, Bushes, arms, shock mounts etc etc. Everything. The dampers were replaced for the first time in the cars' life at 80,000km! It cost us less than 100k including labour. I have friend who spent more than that for his Nissan Primera suspension.

Of the 3 cars you mention the 3 series is likely to be much more expensive than the Audi or VW. Therefore the latter two are bargains. I like the BMW the best but the saving you have (I reckon about 1.5m!?) by buying any of the other two are fantastic.

Yep, I agree with you... the front suspension on my P11 cost 75k to replace! An Audi replacement would have cost the same... thinking about upgrading to an Audi but still contemplating Japanese Vs European issue that I might encounter. The P11 is a lovely car to drive... but there is something about the A4 I love... the 'Thunk' of the door closing I guess...

Edited September 25, 2008 by VVTi

[VWvortex]

Yep, I agree with you... the front suspension on my P11 cost 75k to replace! An Audi replacement would have cost the same... thinking about upgrading to an Audi but still contemplating Japanese Vs European issue that I might encounter. The P11 is a lovely car to drive... but there is something about the A4 I love... the 'Thunk' of the door closing I guess...

Let me add to this interesting post. I've owned a Primera PII myself about 4 years ago. My wife uses a VW Bora now, and it is defineatly much cheaper on regular maintenence than the Primera. I replaced the front suspension (except the Shocks) for under 30k.

One problem- In a Jap car you can opt for used parts at times (say the body panels, gear box, steering rack, bumpers etc)

But it is very hard to find that sort of thing for most european brands. But i hear a few people are importing these now.

[Devinda_Z]

But i hear a few people are importing these now.

Euro Nippon out in Wadduwa had an entire Audi A6 body!

My wife uses a VW Bora now, and it is defineatly much cheaper on regular maintenence than the Primera. I replaced the front suspension (except the Shocks) for under 30k.

Are there any specialist garages for VW aside from CarMart & Senok, in the way that Milroy handles BMW?

[VWvortex]

Euro Nippon out in Wadduwa had an entire Audi A6 body!

Are there any specialist garages for VW aside from CarMart & Senok, in the way that Milroy handles BMW?

There is one Car***t mechanic in Malabe i know of , but have not used him. However what i have found out is, the major component of the cost is with parts. The agents charge ridiculous amounts and adds VAT on top of it. There is person who specializes on VW, Audi and BMW spares down jawatte, and his prices are extremely reasonable. Infact he supplies to the agents as well :-) Car***t allows for spares to be brought from outside, and they carry out repairs/services etc..

[dinosh]

Its more to do with the perception. In common the Jap cars (especially Toyota & Nissan) are perceived to be cheaper in maintenence & Euro cars as high in maintanence. As GTAm said this has been mostly created by the agents it-self by ripping off their customers who can afford & position the cars in a premium grade. In-addition there weren't much reputed mechanics to tackle Beemers & Audi's except for the agents which pushed the users for no option but to go for the agents & get ripped off.

Things have been changing now; especially for BMW does have a reasonabe re-sale value but still not as the Mercs, Audi & VW have not come close enough.

And you get mechanics in town who handle these european cars now. Some who have worked for the agents & broken off, also there are some mechanics who have worked for these brands in countries such as Oman, Saudi etc who have landed in SL & opened up their own too.

After using Jap cars for a while thought of making a change & bought a E30 recently. Well its much fun to drive than any of the Jap cars that I've driven. There is not much of a difference in maintenence cost either...

[Optimus Prime]

There is a considerable following for the Bimmer 3 series in SL, especially the e46 320d. Service interval for the 1999 320d, according to the service manual is 10,000 miles. For 2000 and newer models, I think its 15000 miles, but I maybe wrong on that one. There's a Service Interval Indicator, which is a count down based on the conditions under which the car is used. Generally, the countdown will reach 100 miles (inspection/service due limit) in around 7500 actual driving miles. Even so, Jap cars have to serviced approximately 3 times during a single service cycle of the BMW. More information on service intervals and inspections: http://www.athensbmw.com/Frequently-Asked-Questions.aspx

The Bimmer 3 does handle fantastically well and feels rock solid. When compared with a 1998 Audi B5 A4 1.8L petrol, I feel the build quality, power and handling of the e46 is far superior. Then again, the price difference does justify that observation.

If your looking to buy a 320d, make sure the vehicle has been serviced at the correct intervals, preferably by the agents. Also there are some known issues with the turbo, water pump bearing and the catalytic converter. As GTAm mentioned, check out as many cars as possible, before making your decision. The following wiki contains a truckload of info on the BMW e46: http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php/B...look_out_for.3F

[L board]

Gentlemen I believe the higher fuel consumption of petrol BMW, Audi and Passat is a main factor why an ordinary person may opt for a Jap car such as a corolla (well I know Nissans of course may not give any better figures than the Euro cars). If this forum can help people by mentioning the exact places where you can buy parts for reasonable figures I am sure it will be helpful. So far I didn't see a single post which specifically says where parts can be found and where the machnics can be found!

Besides, there may be less than 100 Passats for the whole country and perhaps less than 200 A4s. Obviously the parts therefore will be difficult to find outside. Unless you can afford to buy the parts at a premium figure from the agents, you will be helpless.

Edited September 26, 2008 by L board

[The Don]

There is a considerable following for the Bimmer 3 series in SL, especially the e46 320d. Service interval for the 1999 320d, according to the service manual is 10,000 miles. For 2000 and newer models, I think its 15000 miles, but I maybe wrong on that one. There's a Service Interval Indicator, which is a count down based on the conditions under which the car is used. Generally, the countdown will reach 100 miles (inspection/service due limit) in around 7500 actual driving miles. Even so, Jap cars have to serviced approximately 3 times during a single service cycle of the BMW. More information on service intervals and inspections: http://www.athensbmw.com/Frequently-Asked-Questions.aspx

The Bimmer 3 does handle fantastically well and feels rock solid. When compared with a 1998 Audi B5 A4 1.8L petrol, I feel the build quality, power and handling of the e46 is far superior. Then again, the price difference does justify that observation.

If your looking to buy a 320d, make sure the vehicle has been serviced at the correct intervals, preferably by the agents. Also there are some known issues with the turbo, water pump bearing and the catalytic converter. As GTAm mentioned, check out as many cars as possible, before making your decision. The following wiki contains a truckload of info on the BMW e46: http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php/B...look_out_for.3F

Hi Optimus, I'm just curious, do you or have you at any point owned a 320D and a A4 ? cos I'm very interested in your observation using those cars.

[VVTi]

Gentlemen I believe the higher fuel consumption of petrol BMW, Audi and Passat is a main factor why an ordinary person may opt for a Jap car such as a corolla (well I know Nissans of course may not give any better figures than the Euro cars). If this forum can help people by mentioning the exact places where you can buy parts for reasonable figures I am sure it will be helpful. So far I didn't see a single post which specifically says where parts can be found and where the machnics can be found!

Besides, there may be less than 100 Passats for the whole country and perhaps less than 200 A4s. Obviously the parts therefore will be difficult to find outside. Unless you can afford to buy the parts at a premium figure from the agents, you will be helpless.

Machang... try looking for a AC compressor for a P11! Took me 2 weeks and a lot of driving around with no AC till I found the Only one in Nugegoda, the Nissan shop in Nawinna. Not sure how the scene now is this was last year.... but sometimes the most obvious models have some pretty strange part shortages! Either all p11 had a AC compressor failure during that time or sometimes parts for common cars are not as common as we want to believe.

Ripper and I had a time looking for parts for his car. Though it was a Corolla/Sprinter. Parts were not cheap too! So one can imagine how it must be for cars that are not seen much on the road.

[nira74]

Gentlemen I believe the higher fuel consumption of petrol BMW, Audi and Passat is a main factor why an ordinary person may opt for a Jap car such as a corolla (well I know Nissans of course may not give any better figures than the Euro cars). If this forum can help people by mentioning the exact places where you can buy parts for reasonable figures I am sure it will be helpful. So far I didn't see a single post which specifically says where parts can be found and where the machnics can be found!

Besides, there may be less than 100 Passats for the whole country and perhaps less than 200 A4s. Obviously the parts therefore will be difficult to find outside. Unless you can afford to buy the parts at a premium figure from the agents, you will be helpless.

Audi A4 and VW Passat 1.8T are turbo engined cars and therefore you get the extra performance at the cost of fuel economy. But you'll find that the N42 Series engined BMW 318 - (2 Litre) is far more economical than most Japanese 2 liter and even 1.8 liter models.

[Optimus Prime]

Hi Optimus, I'm just curious, do you or have you at any point owned a 320D and a A4 ? cos I'm very interested in your observation using those cars.

Hi Don, my father owns a 320d and one of my close friends owned an A4. The latter was a 1997 non-turbo as opposed to a being a '98 as mentioned in my previous post. I realize it is an unfair comparison, but the Audi failed to impress for the following reasons. I understand the non-turbo produces 125bhp, but the car didn't feel all that brisk. The steering was too stiff (a very subjective observation) and as you said, being fwd didn't help things either. In the interior department, although I liked the informative gauge cluster and the layout of the various controls, I wish it had a more solid feel. Better dampening of rattles for instance. I'm not trying to say that the A4 is a bad car. Far from it. Its a smart looking car with good value for money. But my experience left me somewhat disappointed. Maybe a more equally matched comparison would change my opinion. Cheers.

[maithri]

Just to join the discussion,

I feel the market is determined by parts cost,ease of repair, and the I am better than you culture in most cases in Sri Lanka. How ever the lack of exposure to european models in SL creates a warped market where Dealer(Agents as you know them) and the availability of common service parts etc. distorts the issue. D*MO seems to come out favourably whilst Car mart does not seem to judging by the comments posted here. How ever just remember, Audi A4 VW passat Skoda superb share similar platforms and have the same engines and gear boxes as well as brakes etc. The Audi front suspension is made from Aluminium Alloy whilst the other two has the same shape part made from steel. The new A4 has different rear suspension. So a lot of parts are the same i.e. engine, clutches, brakes, steering drive shafts etc are the same. The body panels and the interior is where most differences lie. The diagnostics for all these models use the same software and the electronic parts are common to all the range, Golf's Bora's Octavia's which have the same engine codes share the same parts mainly. So things are easily available freely here in the UK and we can enjoy the car of our choice depending on our needs and the means.

I personally do not like the 3 series BMW in my opinion it is not as well built as the A4 and no where nearly as reliable.

Try the 5 series it really is Fabulous,the 3 series is for the wannabie's all show no substance.

Maithri.

[GTAm]

I personally do not like the 3 series BMW in my opinion it is not as well built as the A4 and no where nearly as reliable.

Try the 5 series it really is Fabulous,the 3 series is for the wannabie's all show no substance.

Maithri.

Agreed that the 5 is fab and superior to a 3. And yes the early 3s are poorly built and yes the BMs are not quite reliable. I too don't like the image of the 3 series, but having driven all the cars in that class I have to say it's the most complete drivers car. The fwd Audis are nowhere near IMHO.

[maithri]

True, till you try a S4!

Maithri

[VWvortex]

True, till you try a S4!

Maithri

I say u should compare the S4 with a M3, not any 3 series.

Btw Maithri, driven any VW R-range vehicles?

Edited October 1, 2008 by VWvortex

[Devinda_Z]

driven any VW R-range vehicles?

on the subject for VW's, whats the story on the Black Bora & Silver Passat (GL4343?) with the Oettinger decals? - comprehensively tuned are they??

Also is the latter car runing an AWD system & V6?

Seen it around and i must say it looks very nice

wonder what the performance figure are like

[VWvortex]

The black Bora is a standard 1.6 car with some cosmetic work. I'm not too sure about the Passat though.

[maithri]

Just an R32 golf-Brand new demo car when I used to work for a VW dealer!

Maithri.

[xXx]

gents first of all sorry for hijacking the thread. since this thread has been inactive for about a week plus since we are in the topic of euro cars thought of posting my simple question here rather than opening a new thread.

a friend of mine is on the hunt for a registered BMW E46. Preferably a one with an english number. he's not too fussed about the fuel type. how's the market price on these both diesel and petrol, pre and post facelift?

[milindu]

gents first of all sorry for hijacking the thread. since this thread has been inactive for about a week plus since we are in the topic of euro cars thought of posting my simple question here rather than opening a new thread.

a friend of mine is on the hunt for a registered BMW E46. Preferably a one with an english number. he's not too fussed about the fuel type. how's the market price on these both diesel and petrol, pre and post facelift?

A 65- pre facelift diesel should be around 3.6-4 million (English Nos a bit more).

The post facelift cars go in the 5.5-6 mil range.

But doubt any of the cars are moving under these market conditions.

[xXx]

A 65- pre facelift diesel should be around 3.6-4 million (English Nos a bit more).

The post facelift cars go in the 5.5-6 mil range.

But doubt any of the cars are moving under these market conditions.

thanks milindu. i believe the prices you quote are for diesels correct? how much will a petrol one cost?

my mate has already looked at couple of cars and he said most of the E46's are diesel with manual tranny. i too agree with his statement. most of the E46's i've seen on the roads are 320D's. any particular reason for this? i remember back in the days some people did bring this down under the government servant permit from UK.

[milindu]

thanks milindu. i believe the prices you quote are for diesels correct? how much will a petrol one cost?

my mate has already looked at couple of cars and he said most of the E46's are diesel with manual tranny. i too agree with his statement. most of the E46's i've seen on the roads are 320D's. any particular reason for this? i remember back in the days some people did bring this down under the government servant permit from UK.

The reason was the permit. The 320D cars came as low as 2.4mil on the permit while the basic petrol without the permit was 3.8 mil at the time (So not many people bought petrol versions). I remember there were 320D 200 cars coming in through the agen on a particular month at its peak.

We bought a Petrol Auto which is relatively rare here with which we are still very happy with. We also missed an H Regd auto with facelift that was sold trough the agent for 5.5mil.