Oil Sludge

[Naz]

Hi, I drive a Toyota Vios and have missed my usual service by 3000Km's... car has done arnd 85K's. A couple of time, when i slowed at an intersection the engine stalled. No warning lights or indicators came on. And, the pulling power of the car also relatvely was low. And the oil levels also dipped. When I took it Toyota this morning for a service, the guys said that the sludge build up was bad, and that the ONLY solution is to clean up the engine, which will take 4 days and cost approx. 120k. They said that it'l have to be sunk in a thinner bath and blahdy blah. When I asked if there is a short cut, the guy said that I can get the engine flushed elsewhere, but then that can only worsen the situation. Please guys, need some advise... I am obviously thinking of flushing the engine..

[varunatech]

Thanks varunatech for your reply, but i did a Full tank and fuel check and i came to find that it does around7-8 in city limits.. But it really does very good in outstation... it did 260Km (where i traveled Kurunegala) for a quarter (1/4) of the tank..

And in AM they did a good tune-up which they cleaned lot of carbon, and finally it started come out water drops... and they said now its good...

And for the record, the engine was very smooth and all the gears shift quickly, but now the engine starting to go hard when accelerating, doesn't shift quickly.. the oil is also turned different colour... (after the service i have traveled 1600Km so far, do u suggest to make another oil change?? and what is the best oil to use?

My vehicle is 1NZFE 121 (2002 model) and its done 84k km nearly.. and i use Toyota Oil also i pump 95octane... and do i need to change air-filter (i don't think i need to do that as i have traveled only 1600km) but let me know.. i have recently cleaned all the sensors with Kontakt SW, is it ok?

Do i need to replace spark plugs???

Buddy, do not change too many things at once. Only one at a time. And collect all information at one place.

The latest info I have from you is Oil has changed the color and you have shifting issues. Are these shifting issues due to lack of power or is the transmission has any issue.

If you have done tank to tank calculation, that is good and 8/9 is too low (if you are a normal driver than a maniac).

Then my analysis so far from the information is..........

1. Show this to a professional.

2. If they suspect, open the rocker covers and see the cam lobes and the lifters.

3. If there is sludge, you can take many paths depending on the mount of sludge.

4. If sludge is not the issue, then the path should be through fuel system, timing, ignition etc..

As of now do not change anything, record all info. If you are willing you can share here and we can shed some light. I have some experience with the 121 VVTi engines.

Bur paramount is showing to a professional outfit whom has a balanced view. Not the TL, they are too busy to diagnose and save money, I am hoping that they should start selling engines rather than taking quick decisions.

(If you have time, pull your dipstick at cold......drop few drops of oil to a blotting paper (even to back of a name card). And take a snap after 30 minutes......this can be a good test and some reference photos are also available in the web. This is a basic test to see the condition of the oil).

Take care, do one at a time.

[RyanW]

Buddy, do not change too many things at once. Only one at a time. And collect all information at one place.

The latest info I have from you is Oil has changed the color and you have shifting issues. Are these shifting issues due to lack of power or is the transmission has any issue.

If you have done tank to tank calculation, that is good and 8/9 is too low (if you are a normal driver than a maniac).

Then my analysis so far from the information is..........

1. Show this to a professional.

2. If they suspect, open the rocker covers and see the cam lobes and the lifters.

3. If there is sludge, you can take many paths depending on the mount of sludge.

4. If sludge is not the issue, then the path should be through fuel system, timing, ignition etc..

As of now do not change anything, record all info. If you are willing you can share here and we can shed some light. I have some experience with the 121 VVTi engines.

Bur paramount is showing to a professional outfit whom has a balanced view. Not the TL, they are too busy to diagnose and save money, I am hoping that they should start selling engines rather than taking quick decisions.

(If you have time, pull your dipstick at cold......drop few drops of oil to a blotting paper (even to back of a name card). And take a snap after 30 minutes......this can be a good test and some reference photos are also available in the web. This is a basic test to see the condition of the oil).

Take care, do one at a time.

Thanks varunatech,

By the way - my father said that the day he took it to AM; they have open the covers and have checked on everything of the engine and they have said "there is nothing wrong in the engine, whoever told it's sludge formed is a fool".. so i think then there is no problem/sludge form in the engine...

But why does it do less on fuel?? I mean 7-8 in Colombo is really low... it should be around 9-10 (that is what i have heard from 121 owners).

And i do pump 95Oct... so why is it?? i have done engine tune-up (air take cleaning, injector cleaning, throttle body cleaning....etc from AM, and replaced petrol filter Genuine as well)

Please also let me know what engine oil to use.. AM said to use Mobil, but i have used Toyota... and i'm going to change oil maybe tomorrow, do i need to flush the engine??

[RWD]

could it be a bad air flow sensor?

[varunatech]

Thanks varunatech,

By the way - my father said that the day he took it to AM; they have open the covers and have checked on everything of the engine and they have said "there is nothing wrong in the engine, whoever told it's sludge formed is a fool".. so i think then there is no problem/sludge form in the engine...

But why does it do less on fuel?? I mean 7-8 in Colombo is really low... it should be around 9-10 (that is what i have heard from 121 owners).

And i do pump 95Oct... so why is it?? i have done engine tune-up (air take cleaning, injector cleaning, throttle body cleaning....etc from AM, and replaced petrol filter Genuine as well)

Please also let me know what engine oil to use.. AM said to use Mobil, but i have used Toyota... and i'm going to change oil maybe tomorrow, do i need to flush the engine??

Hi, now you are telling that rocker covers were removed and inspected. If there were no sludge it is a good sign.

Then focus on engine electronics, fuel ignition, injectors and air flow.

Use Toyota Mineral. Cannot go wrong with that and change at minimum 5K intervals.

[The Don]

Varuna, except for a certain brand, I have not heard of Synthetic oils causing sludge in regularly used cars. The situation is somewhat different if the vehicle is not used regularly. I switched to mineral from synthetic for this reason.

[RyanW]

Hey Varuna,

Yes regarding the ignition coils - so far i have replaced 1 coil as it was dead (the car started to make a huge vibration) so i took it to colombo-auto-mac, then they checked and found out that 1 of the coil is gone... so i have replaced it as well.. cost me 11,000/- (9500 for the coil and the rest for fixing it).

I think there is no fault on airflow... if so how do i find it???

and how much will the mass airflow sensor will cost?

So i most of the time think either pump or injectors...

[Nilantha]

Hi, I drive a Toyota Vios and have missed my usual service by 3000Km's... car has done arnd 85K's. A couple of time, when i slowed at an intersection the engine stalled. No warning lights or indicators came on. And, the pulling power of the car also relatvely was low. And the oil levels also dipped. When I took it Toyota this morning for a service, the guys said that the sludge build up was bad, and that the ONLY solution is to clean up the engine, which will take 4 days and cost approx. 120k. They said that it'l have to be sunk in a thinner bath and blahdy blah. When I asked if there is a short cut, the guy said that I can get the engine flushed elsewhere, but then that can only worsen the situation. Please guys, need some advise... I am obviously thinking of flushing the engine..

if you are going to spend 120k try to replace the engine with japan used engine. may be it cheap than engine repair.

[Nilantha]

Hi, I drive a Toyota Vios and have missed my usual service by 3000Km's... car has done arnd 85K's. A couple of time, when i slowed at an intersection the engine stalled. No warning lights or indicators came on. And, the pulling power of the car also relatvely was low. And the oil levels also dipped. When I took it Toyota this morning for a service, the guys said that the sludge build up was bad, and that the ONLY solution is to clean up the engine, which will take 4 days and cost approx. 120k. They said that it'l have to be sunk in a thinner bath and blahdy blah. When I asked if there is a short cut, the guy said that I can get the engine flushed elsewhere, but then that can only worsen the situation. Please guys, need some advise... I am obviously thinking of flushing the engine..

if you are going to spend 120k try to replace the engine with japan used engine. may be it cheaper than engine repair.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Nilantha

[Supra_Natural]

if you are going to spend 120k try to replace the engine with japan used engine. may be it cheaper than engine repair.

And who is going to pay for the sludge clean up on the used jap engine? Yourself?

[Nilantha]

And who is going to pay for the sludge clean up on the used jap engine? Yourself?

every engine no have sludge

[jdnet]

every engine no have sludge

and how are you going to know the engine you bought isn't sludge free? You need to take it apart right? which brings you back to square one.

[Nilantha]

and how are you going to know the engine you bought isn't sludge free? You need to take it apart right? which brings you back to square one.

you can see from the oil refill nob on the engine. if have sludge u can see from there. most jap petrol engines no have run at least 40,000km you have to check condition of the engine and can take one month warranty. as soon as replace the engine you have to do engine flush. replace is better than engine repair.

[Supra_Natural]

you can see from the oil refill nob on the engine. if have sludge u can see from there. most jap petrol engines no have run at least 40,000km you have to check condition of the engine and can take one month warranty. as soon as replace the engine you have to do engine flush. replace is better than engine repair.

Shows how much you know, The oil cap is not always an indicator of engine sludge as it can form in various different places in the engine's oil passages.

Also, how can you be certain what mileage the engine has done? What if the other components within the engine are worn out?

Better the devil you know, I always say. At least with his own engine, once the OP spends the rebuild/repair money he knows the problem is solved for sure.

[jdnet]

you can see from the oil refill nob on the engine. if have sludge u can see from there. most jap petrol engines no have run at least 40,000km you have to check condition of the engine and can take one month warranty. as soon as replace the engine you have to do engine flush. replace is better than engine repair.

what do you mean "most japan petrol engines no have run atleast 40,000?" Do the japs just take the engine out of the car when it reaches 40k?

[Nilantha]

what do you mean "most japan petrol engines no have run atleast 40,000?" Do the japs just take the engine out of the car when it reaches 40k?

most engines they pulled out from accident vehicles. also most cars not too much run like in sri lanka. one of my relation working in the yard at Okayama, Japan.

[jdnet]

most engines they pulled out from accident vehicles. also most cars not too much run like in sri lanka. one of my relation working in the yard at Okayama, Japan.

oh ok you have a "relative" at a yard. Recently there have been quite a few members who use a "relative" to backup their opinions and make them sem like facts.

[Dinuk]

Try PITStop.... Last time i went there I saw they flush a Maruti Alto engine. I can recommend them. They have two treatments. You can choose the one you want or tell them to decide what your car need...

Edited August 25, 2011 by Dinuk